Smog Chiang Mai

[flakes]

Dear Chiang mai residents,

Am considering moving from pattaya to Chiang mai with my son ...

But and i am sure this is not the first post about the smog in Cm

So how bad is the air quality in CM ? I plan to live in the south area of CM near to most of the international schools.

i read rather disturbing articles on the internet such as highest lung cancer rates from asia etc etc...

Is the air bad the whole year ? is it only a certain period? if the air is mostly bad during school holidays we might still avoid by making trip outside of CM , but ofcourse polluted air has a mind of its own.

it does give me some real concerns moving to CM..

The government seem to invest all their time to measuring the poluted air ,wish already we know is extreme bad ,(so what the point keep measuring it) still they not have any plan of action .How about fining anybody 1000 baht who lits any fire..?if fine all for 6 month no one will lit anything anymore in the north,and not so difficult detect any fire so.,..?

My farang friend in bangkok threw a smoked sicaret on the floor of a street and a police fine him 1000 baht with no receipt,, I guess that police men weas real concerned about the environment too

Flakes

[canuckamuck]

The air can be bad here from March to June. It depends a lot on the rain. Last year it was quite bad, this year there is very little smog.

Most of the year the air is quite good by Thailand standards.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The above is not correct for the better part of April, May and June. You will not find data to back that up. (look at the historical data on the pcd.go.th site, this year there wasn't a single day that went over the limit, unlike some other provinces near Bangkok. And there hasn't been a single year in recorded history that showed a problem in May or June.)

On most years however, the air is bad in several weeks in March. (and if unlucky, then the first week or so of April).

This year was very clear, with the air quality as good or better than Chonburi for example.

Best thing to do is come visit. It's May, so super clear air now. You can see for miles and miles and miles.

March of course is also the school holiday, so you could leave. In bad years, that's probably a good thing to do.

Note finally that the location within or near Chiang Mai does not make a difference. It's a regional issue that affects the entire North. So it doesn't matter where in Chiang Mai you live. Other Northern provinces are often worse such as Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Son (closer to Burma/China.)

Edited May 5, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[wolf5370]

They have been cracking down on clearing fires this year (though rain stopped play mostly) - there were TV adverts and radio broadcaststhat were quite powerful (in as much as they can be) telling the farmers that it is illegal.

Some people suffer more than others. I was a bit worried when I moved here from BKK a few years back, but I can tell you the car fume smog in BKK seemed 100 times worse than here - infact I never really noticed it lat year eaither (the bad year) other than the orange glow at sunset. Unless you have asthma or something simular, I wouldn't worry about it - you could always do what the wealthy Thais and expats do, go on holiday during the burning season.

[chiangmaiexpat]

The air pollution problem is seasonal and lasts roughly from mid February to the beginning of April with peaks usually in March. During this time, PM10 concentration can reach four times the EU safety limits on bad days. On an average day in March, it is at 150% of the EU safety limit. During the remainder of the year, the air quality is fine, unless you happen to live next to a dusty road. There are minor variations in timing and severity each year. This year was very unusual, as we had lots of rain during the "dry" season, which prevented the smog from building up. Long time residents say it has been the coldest and wettest hot season in decades. I am somewhat pessimistic about short-term improvements, as the political will for that seems to be lacking. The smog affects all of Northern Thailand, as well as neighbouring countries. During the last few years, the pollution was even more severe in places Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Song. Some people cope by taking a holiday and leaving Chiang Mai during March.

Cheers, CMX

[Priceless]

There is usually a peak of particle pollution from mid-February through the end of March. This does however vary, last year the peak was in March-April and this year we did not really get any peak at all. This graph shows the average yearly pattern since the turn of the century (with Chon Buri thrown in for comparison, since you will move here from Pattaya):

It is however also true that the pollution levels have been significantly improving long-term. This graph shows 12-month averages as far back as they are available, and the trend for the same period (note that this is a trend line, not a forecast!):

I am sure that quite a few people on this board will post and tell you about the horrible year 2007. That year was truly very bad, but it is worth noting that it was much worse in Chon Buri.

Welcome to Chiang Mai, I'm sure you will like it here.

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

The air pollution problem is seasonal and lasts roughly from mid February to the beginning of April with peaks usually in March. During this time, PM10 concentration can reach four times the EU safety limits on bad days. On an average day in March, it is at 150% of the EU safety limit. During the remainder of the year, the air quality is fine, unless you happen to live next to a dusty road. There are minor variations in timing and severity each year. This year was very unusual, as we had lots of rain during the "dry" season, which prevented the smog from building up. Long time residents say it has been the coldest and wettest hot season in decades. I am somewhat pessimistic about short-term improvements, as the political will for that seems to be lacking. The smog affects all of Northern Thailand, as well as neighbouring countries. During the last few years, the pollution was even more severe in places Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Song. Some people cope by taking a holiday and leaving Chiang Mai during March.

Cheers, CMX

Just a note on the EU standard: There is no such thing as a "daily limit" in the EU standard. What is specified is the pollution level on the 36^th worst day of the year (the 90^th percentile, in statistics speak). It is consequently not really meaningful comparing daily observations from Thailand to the "European standard" (which incidentally large portions of Europe don't reach, either).

/ Priceless

[flakes]

Well ok ...

hope they politicians will work more on this problem

atleast it good to know that it is seasonal...

in bkk its all year round..

still amazing about that high percentage of persons with lung problems in Thailand ,actually the highest in asia...

good to know there have been tv commercials about preventing persons to burn carbage perhaps that why maybe this year there was no peak...

In that case they need continue the campaign

[flakes]

You are saying the air in chiang mai is better then the air in chonburi pattaya really ?

and even in 2007 with that heavy smog in Cm the air was better compared then chonburi?

are you sure ? why so many lung problems for chaing mai residents then ?

i tried study your included statistics but i can not see all to clear...(same as smog day in cm perhaps hehehe)

There is usually a peak of particle pollution from mid-February through the end of March. This does however vary, last year the peak was in March-April and this year we did not really get any peak at all. This graph shows the average yearly pattern since the turn of the century (with Chon Buri thrown in for comparison, since you will move here from Pattaya):

It is however also true that the pollution levels have been significantly improving long-term. This graph shows 12-month averages as far back as they are available, and the trend for the same period (note that this is a trend line, not a forecast!):

I am sure that quite a few people on this board will post and tell you about the horrible year 2007. That year was truly very bad, but it is worth noting that it was much worse in Chon Buri.

Welcome to Chiang Mai, I'm sure you will like it here.

/ Priceless

[flakes]

Hi sorry i just clicked on your graphics aqnd they are more then clear , yeah if they are correct then air more clean in Cm in comparison with Chonburi,now in my case i still live in pattaya which might be little better then Chonburi..

I think the months march and april are good month for taking holidays from Chiang mai..

Sander

There is usually a peak of particle pollution from mid-February through the end of March. This does however vary, last year the peak was in March-April and this year we did not really get any peak at all. This graph shows the average yearly pattern since the turn of the century (with Chon Buri thrown in for comparison, since you will move here from Pattaya):

It is however also true that the pollution levels have been significantly improving long-term. This graph shows 12-month averages as far back as they are available, and the trend for the same period (note that this is a trend line, not a forecast!):

I am sure that quite a few people on this board will post and tell you about the horrible year 2007. That year was truly very bad, but it is worth noting that it was much worse in Chon Buri.

Welcome to Chiang Mai, I'm sure you will like it here.

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

You are saying the air in chiang mai is better then the air in chonburi pattaya really ?

and even in 2007 with that heavy smog in Cm the air was better compared then chonburi?

are you sure ? why so many lung problems for chaing mai residents then ?

i tried study your included statistics but i can not see all to clear...(same as smog day in cm perhaps hehehe)

One question at a time:

1/ The average pollution (PM<10) level in Chon Buri since January 2000 has been 55.1 µg/m³, in Chiang Mai it has been 46.2. I.e. Chon Buri has been 19% higher.

2/ In 2007 Chon Buri had an average PM<10 level of 81.2 µg/m³ and 48 days in excess of the Thai allowed maximum level (120 µg/m³). The corresponding numbers for Chiang Mai were 51.5 and 30 days, i.e. Chon Buri was ~60% higher on both counts.

3/ According to the research reports that I have been able to find, the high incidence of lung cancer in Chiang Mai is not attributable to ambient air pollution, but rather to indoor pollution of different kinds (radon, fungus spores etc). I am not a medical expert though, so there are certainly reports that I have not seen or understood.

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

Hi sorry i just clicked on your graphics aqnd they are more then clear , yeah if they are correct then air more clean in Cm in comparison with Chonburi,now in my case i still live in pattaya which might be little better then Chonburi..

I think the months march and april are good month for taking holidays from Chiang mai..

Sander

You are quite right, Pattaya may well be better (or at least different) than Chon Buri (Amphur Muang). Unfortunately the Pollution Control Department doesn't measure (or at least doesn't publish) figures for Pattaya.

I think that you can trust the graphs. They are based on raw data from the Pollution Control Department ( http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/QueryAir.cfm?task=default ), 3,429 observations for Chiang Mai and 3,556 for Chon Buri.

/ Priceless

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Flakes,

Welcome, to you and your son, to Chiang Mai !

On this thread, we think Khun Priceless has, as usual, stepped-up with very useful answers, and clarifications. Often on this forum on weather issues you'll find a very valuable back-and-forth going on between Khun MapGuy, Khun Priceless, and Khun CMX.

Forgive us, if this sounds patronizing, but to some extent your exposure to bad air here is going to depend on your life-style: if you ride a bicycle every day (like my human meat-container does), or a motosai, you will eat much more particulate matter than if you are in a car (with air-con ?).

The amount of motor-vehicle emissions you consume will be concentrated at different times each day: for example the morning-inflow of commuters into the city, the after-school get the kids home rush, and the later afternoon outflow from the city to the 'burbs.

It would be great if we had accurate measuring stations, and statistics for similar-sized areas within Chiang Mai, and then could compare macro-level statistics like how air-quality in the central city, with air-quality in other zones over time. And wonderful if we had the statistics to see a kind of mappping, by time of day within amphurs, or along thoroughfares, etc.

But, the accuracy of measurements of pollution for the whole area of greater-Chiang Mai is open to question; there are few monitoring stations, and one of them is up on top of Doi Suthep. You can find excellent discussions, and debates, on what the statistics are that we have for Chaing Mai by doing a search here on this forum: suggest starting searching by reading Khun Priceless' always informative posts.

And this year, ioho, has been (among eleven we've been in Chiang Mai) so far the least polluted yet: by contrast, for many of us here, last year was horrible for near three months. And there can be episodes here where the air in the Ping valley is trapped sometimes in the February-April timeframe, and it becomes a nightmare to breathe, when there's been no rain: 2010, ioho, was very bad, but not near as bad as the horror of some five or six years ago.

And, of course, where you live is going to make a real difference. Bicycling from the Thapae Gate area to the Nong Hoy area: once we turn left off the old Chiang Mai~Lamphun highway to head east, there's almost always a tangible shift in the quality of air (cleaner), and it often feels at least 1 degree C cooler, or more.

When we visit a good friend way out in Mae Rim, beyond the Prem School, the air there, of course, feels so much fresher and cleaner.

So, assuming a commute of some kind for your child, every day, that may be an important factor to consider in terms of where you live which, of course, will probably be shaped by your choice of school ... or visa-versa.

Anyhow, welcome

best, ~o:37;

Edited May 5, 2011 by orang37

[MikeCNX]

The air pollution problem is seasonal and lasts roughly from mid February to the beginning of April with peaks usually in March. During this time, PM10 concentration can reach four times the EU safety limits on bad days. On an average day in March, it is at t150% of the EU safety limi. During the remainder of the year, the air quality is fine, unless you happen to live next to a dusty road. There are minor variations in timing and severity each year. This year was very unusual, as we had lots of rain during the "dry" season, which prevented the smog from building up. Long time residents say it has been the coldest and wettest hot season in decades. I am somewhat pessimistic about short-term improvements, as the political will for that seems to be lacking. The smog affects all of Northern Thailand, as well as neighbouring countries. During the last few years, the pollution was even more severe in places Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Song. Some people cope by taking a holiday and leaving Chiang Mai during March.

Cheers, CMX

Very nice post!

I agree with you here, part from: 150% of the EU safety limit

That should be 300% safety limit. i.e. a Pm10 of 150.

[chiangmaiexpat]

Just a note on the EU standard: There is no such thing as a "daily limit" in the EU standard.

Um, actually there is for PM10. It's 50 µg/m3 averaged over 24 hours. (http://ec.europa.eu/environment/air/quality/standards.htm)

Cheers, CMX

[Priceless]

Just a note on the EU standard: There is no such thing as a "daily limit" in the EU standard.

Um, actually there is for PM10. It's 50 µg/m3 averaged over 24 hours. (http://ec.europa.eu/environment/air/quality/standards.htm)

Cheers, CMX

It seems you didn't understand my post, or the EU standard. The EU "limit" of 50 µg/m3 is for the 36th highest daily (24-hour average) value of the year, i.e. up to 35 values can be in excess of the limit.

Please see this table:

As far as I have been able to find out, there is no maximum 24-hour value in the EU standard.

/ Priceless

PS If you follow the link that you gave and read it, including the rightmost column, you'll see exactly what I posted here and in the original post that you commented on.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Priceless

[Priceless]

The air pollution problem is seasonal and lasts roughly from mid February to the beginning of April with peaks usually in March. During this time, PM10 concentration can reach four times the EU safety limits on bad days. On an average day in March, it is at t150% of the EU safety limi. During the remainder of the year, the air quality is fine, unless you happen to live next to a dusty road. There are minor variations in timing and severity each year. This year was very unusual, as we had lots of rain during the "dry" season, which prevented the smog from building up. Long time residents say it has been the coldest and wettest hot season in decades. I am somewhat pessimistic about short-term improvements, as the political will for that seems to be lacking. The smog affects all of Northern Thailand, as well as neighbouring countries. During the last few years, the pollution was even more severe in places Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Song. Some people cope by taking a holiday and leaving Chiang Mai during March.

Cheers, CMX

Very nice post!

I agree with you here, part from: 150% of the EU safety limit

That should be 300% safety limit. i.e. a Pm10 of 150.

You are right that the 150% statement is incorrect. The average PM<10 level for Chiang Mai in March is 102.0 µg/m³ (for the years 2000 to 2011, 318 observations). If you compare this to the "EU limit" (which you can't really do, as I've pointed out in another post) the CM value is 104% higher, not 150% or 300%.

In theory, however, there could be a day with a PM<10 value of 500 µg/m³ somewhere in the EU and still be within the limit, as long as the 36 highest value of that year is at or below 50 µg/m³.

/ Priceless

[flakes]

Dear all CM Residents,

Actually Priceless i have heard same as you about the higher rate of lung cancer patience in Cm seems to be of some kind of fungus inside people homes?

Does anyone know more about this ?

Is it in some material that is in houses or in condo,s? cheap or expensive properties?(who gets affected by it) there must be more news about this fungus?

what can be against it?

About myself yes i usually will use the car for most of my trips, for sport go to the indoor gym,so not a whole lot of out door activities ,then malls and parcs lakes..

But then again i got a son and he is always outside...i plan to live somewhere in the south of CM near to all the international schools i assume it be little outside the city center for sure.

[flakes]

Dear all CM Residents,

Actually Priceless i have heard same as you about the higher rate of lung cancer patience in Cm seems to be of some kind of fungus inside people homes?

Does anyone know more about this ?

Is it in some material that is in houses or in condo,s? cheap or expensive properties?(who gets affected by it) there must be more news about this fungus?

what can be against it?

About myself yes i usually will use the car for most of my trips, for sport go to the indoor gym,so not a whole lot of out door activities ,then malls and parcs lakes..

But then again i got a son and he is always outside...i plan to live somewhere in the south of CM near to all the international schools i assume it be little outside the city center for sure.

Just a note on the EU standard: There is no such thing as a "daily limit" in the EU standard.

Um, actually there is for PM10. It's 50 µg/m3 averaged over 24 hours. (http://ec.europa.eu/...y/standards.htm)

Cheers, CMX

It seems you didn't understand my post, or the EU standard. The EU "limit" of 50 µg/m3 is for the 36th highest daily (24-hour average) value of the year, i.e. up to 35 values can be in excess of the limit.

Please see this table:

As far as I have been able to find out, there is no maximum 24-hour value in the EU standard.

/ Priceless

PS If you follow the link that you gave and read it, including the rightmost column, you'll see exactly what I posted here and in the original post that you commented on.

[Priceless]

Dear all CM Residents,

Actually Priceless i have heard same as you about the higher rate of lung cancer patience in Cm seems to be of some kind of fungus inside people homes?

Does anyone know more about this ?

Is it in some material that is in houses or in condo,s? cheap or expensive properties?(who gets affected by it) there must be more news about this fungus?

what can be against it?

About myself yes i usually will use the car for most of my trips, for sport go to the indoor gym,so not a whole lot of out door activities ,then malls and parcs lakes..

But then again i got a son and he is always outside...i plan to live somewhere in the south of CM near to all the international schools i assume it be little outside the city center for sure.

Concerning fungi, here's an abstract of a research report on lung cancer incidence in Chiang Mai: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10622527

On a different note, if PM<10 pollution were a major cause of lung cancer, the highest incidence in Thailand would not be in Chiang Mai, or in Northern Thailand in general, but in Sara Buri which has MUCH higher levels of this type of pollution.

/ Priceless

[canuckamuck]

From what I have heard one problem is larger than normal amounts of naturally occurring radon gas in some areas around Chiang Mai. Someone posted a map long ago with details.

[flakes]

From what I have heard one problem is larger than normal amounts of naturally occurring radon gas in some areas around Chiang Mai. Someone posted a map long ago with details.

ok i will make a new topic about this issue am somewhat curious about this

txs for your reply..