Insulting A Man Is A Crime?

[Roachiebkk]

Well after several years here and witnessing many bewildering events this week has to be one of the top 5. Our office is in a moo ban in Nonthaburi, we have about 30 staff. Luckily just down the road is a great corner restaurant that offers the normal stuff, soup, noodles, rice typical gristle and grass. Our staff frequent the place in great numbers daily as do us farangs also working here. Well the other day the cook was going completely off his head at a table of our staff (all nice young girls) who were evidently very scared. I found out that one of the girls commented on the service of the restaurant, the guy reacted and she told him that 'his business will suffer if he continues like this' So he threatens to call the BiB. All settles down we all go back to work. Next day....... During a torrential downpour lo and behold two BiBs turn up at our office with the cook and insist on arresting the girl. I naturally refused to let them take her until they presented the paperwork. I asked what she was charged with they said "For INSULTation of this man" I laughed and then proceeded to make sure he really knew what an insult was, the guy wouldn't bite though and he kept saying Mai Pen Lai. I told the cops he was belligerent and indeed the girl was correct because of this stupid action his business will indeed suffer! To cut a long story short. I sent all the girls on the table down to the police station so they could testify about how rude and violent this guy was. After an hour it was settled that both parties pay 100 baht fine for cups of tea no doubt and she was told to apologise. She did so whilst playing Farmville on the iphone! The cook complained that her heart wasn't in the apology, so she told him to f*** off and left the building. So now his restaurant is pretty dam_n empty, we averaged about 2,500 baht per day and even if the boycott only lasts a few days I'm sure he'll get the message. I was just shocked that the police could afford to waste so much time on what was a trivial argument over the level of service in a restaurant. Hilarious though and one of those Simply Thailand moments!

Edited May 13, 2011 by Roachiebkk

[smokie36]

Brilliant!

[Boater]

believe it or not defamation is a very serious crime in Thailand !

[soundman]

Well, the cook was probably claiming some sort of loss of business under slander/defamation laws, but.......

After an argument like that I wouldn't eat there again because you never know what might end up in the soup.

[Gaccha]

Slander is a crime in Thailand (not merely a tort).

The Truth is not a complete defence (unlike the UK).

Many a man has ended up arrested on arrival at the airport for saying things, in say, Switzerland, that resulted in a court action and a guilty verdict against him, without him even knowing.

Be cautious. Or is that cook-tious.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Gaccha

[WarpSpeed]

Yah definitely wouldn't be giving him a second chance to get one over on me by eating there again..

Edited May 13, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

Yah definitely wouldn't be giving him a second chance to get one over on me by eating there again..

I saw a CCTV vid once of a cook in the USA pissing in the coffee pot, SO, OP find another joint for your staff eh.

[gregb]

believe it or not defamation is a very serious crime in Thailand !

Defamation is not a laughing matter here. Voicing an opinion is always dangerous, but the fact that something is true is not necessarily a defence either. You have to prove not only that what you said/wrote is true, but that there was a valid reason for disclosing it to a 3rd party. It's a rather different standard than the West.

I'm glad you were able to resolve this issue, but don't assume that there couldn't be some teeth to the law if the circumstances were slightly different.

[Payboy]

Like it or not, this is how it is here.

Overtake a car on a highway and some reactions would make you think that you just exposed their shortcomings in the crotch area.

[IanForbes]

There are ALWAYS consequences for our actions every day. Some consequences are good and some are bad. Life is a series of choices and we should have some idea of what might happen when we do, or don't do something. The cook may or may not have been right, and the girls may have been wrong or right. But, the consequences are that the staff will probably lose an easy place to eat and the cook and owner will lose business. It is an unfortunate situation all around.

[Xangsamhua]

Of course I don't know all the circumstances, but if the cook is an older man and the girls are young, and both parties have an interest in patching things up (as Ian pointed out), then I suggest a courteous apology from the girls to be extended at the restaurant and accompanied by flowers would settle things. And the cook may well go out of his way to take care of your group as a result.

The apology doesn't have to be sincere - just courteous in deference to the age difference - and the cook's face will be restored.

[jackdawson]

"one of the girls commented on the service of the restaurant...she told him that 'his business will suffer if he continues like this"

so one of the "nice young girls" made 2 verbal swipes at the cook ?

yeah , guess she never read that story about jesse jackson spitting on the hamburgers he served to white people when he was a waiter

Edited May 13, 2011 by jackdawson

[ukrules]

I would never go back there again but I would also make a point of allowing him to see me from time to time, perhaps by popping inside to buy something completely trivial like a small bottle of water whilst I was carrying several large bags of takeout food from somewhere else.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Just curious, what about insulting the food ie. "this food is crap" and not making any comment about the cook or establishment. Would this be considered free speech or does "constructive" criticism against things fall under the same set of legal arguments.

[slapout]

Sounds like the cook may also be the manager/owner. Most complaints about service would usually not bring the cook out of the kitchen, unless he had some other interest in the matter.

Having said this the owner/manager could just bar the girl/s involved from the establishment, so it sounds more like a peon who felt he was slighted/talked down to and the police were his way of getting back. He got an apology in front of the police and he feels somewhat even. As mentioned cooks and paybacks can be nasty. I know of a cook who spiked the food for a large crew with ex-lax just before rotating out of the facility. He was quite proud of this and on my inquiry "why"? he said he did not like the nickname they bestowed on him. Women and cooks are groups stay on decent terms with.

[soundman]

Inflamatory & trollish post removed from view.

[Semper]

Well, the cook was probably claiming some sort of loss of business under slander/defamation laws, but.......

After an argument like that I wouldn't eat there again because you never know what might end up in the soup.

More likely loss of face.

[inthepink]

Slander is a crime in Thailand (not merely a tort).

The Truth is not a complete defence (unlike the UK).

Many a man has ended up arrested on arrival at the airport for saying things, in say, Switzerland, that resulted in a court action and a guilty verdict against him, without him even knowing.

Be cautious. Or is that cook-tious.

Telling the truth is not yet an adequate defence in the UK for libel as there is a draft bill seeking to amend this at the moment. Not sure about slander though.

[Beetlejuice]

It sounds as if that young girl in question really does require some lessons in respect and diplomacy, especially after telling the guy to F/off . Appears that she is a type upstart with attitude who believes she knows it all.

The fact that this girl was still using her phone indicates that she has a bad attitude problem.

It must have been quite serious if the owner felt that the police needed to be called, because with most Thai people involving the police in anyrhing is usually an absolute last resort.

The girl employee's heavy handed approach regarding the restaurant staff actually got her employer involved with the police which surely cannot be beneficial for the company.

What she should have done is paid her bill, walked out, then mentioned to the rest of the staff her opinions about that restaurant and began taking her lunch breaks elsewhere from then on.

If it had been one of my staff having involved my company with her attitude problem and arguments, she would have been sacked on the spot.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[WarpSpeed]

Yah definitely wouldn't be giving him a second chance to get one over on me by eating there again..

I saw a CCTV vid once of a cook in the USA pissing in the coffee pot, SO, OP find another joint for your staff eh.

Yep seen that before, I knew there was a very good reason why I don't drink coffee but if there's an upside at least it was a hot drink ..

[WarpSpeed]

Of course I don't know all the circumstances, but if the cook is an older man and the girls are young, and both parties have an interest in patching things up (as Ian pointed out), then I suggest a courteous apology from the girls to be extended at the restaurant and accompanied by flowers would settle things. And the cook may well go out of his way to take care of your group as a result.

The apology doesn't have to be sincere - just courteous in deference to the age difference - and the cook's face will be restored.

<deleted>! Apologize for being mistreated as a paying customer? That's the problem with this place in the first place, no one, even the students can fail at anything (loss of face) so they never learn how to try harder or raise their game and nothing remarkable is ever expected from them so that's what you get ..

Edited May 13, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[hughben]

I wouldn't set foot in that place again. I would instruct everyone of your crew to do the same.

It's not worth the hassle.

[zzaa09]

Just curious, what about insulting the food ie. "this food is crap" and not making any comment about the cook or establishment. Would this be considered free speech or does "constructive" criticism against things fall under the same set of legal arguments.

How general critique and personal opinions fall under any such legal statute is beyond me.

We're in deep trouble if our everyday interactions are institutionally scrutinized.

Think too much.

[KeyserSoze01]

If the OP quoted the girl's comment verbatim, then the statement was neither slanderous or defamatory. She was merely making an observation. Looks like the cook was using some of that forward thinking everyone is harping about.

[threelegcowboy]

I think this situation was a pure cultural example of Thai marketing. I am not defending the Thai man only trying to explain.

This young girl confronts the owner/operator and tries to give constructive criticism. Its not about business at all in his eyes. If a man of higher class had said the same he might have taken them seriously and done something constructive.

The girls parents probably would have told her to never confront directly but maybe give a very small hint. The girl probably learned this marketing advice of putting pressure on the businessman from her falang employer.

So the business suffers is not the primary concern to him but his pride is intact.

The law is probably designed to defuse this situation without violence.

[JurgenG]

It sounds as if that young girl in question really does require some lessons in respect and diplomacy, especially after telling the guy to F/off . Appears that she is a type upstart with attitude who believes she knows it all.

The fact that this girl was still using her phone indicates that she has a bad attitude problem.

It must have been quite serious if the owner felt that the police needed to be called, because with most Thai people involving the police in anyrhing is usually an absolute last resort.

The girl employee's heavy handed approach regarding the restaurant staff actually got her employer involved with the police which surely cannot be beneficial for the company.

What she should have done is paid her bill, walked out, then mentioned to the rest of the staff her opinions about that restaurant and began taking her lunch breaks elsewhere from then on.

If it had been one of my staff having involved my company with her attitude problem and arguments, she would have been sacked on the spot.

Sorry to disagree.

I like people who stand for themselves, and if they are right I always support them. We are working in a very competitive environment and a fighting spirit is something to be rewarded for.

[powderpuff]

Let me see if I understand this. A girl, a customer says "the service here is poor" & somehow that is an insult? I fail to see it.

[watcharacters]

Well, the cook was probably claiming some sort of loss of business under slander/defamation laws, but.......

After an argument like that I wouldn't eat there again because you never know what might end up in the soup.

I think you could count on Special Sauce at a minimum.

[afarang]

First up : Isn't the customer always right? However I would NEVER eat there again . I have seen and heard far too many stories about what happens to the food, before it reaches the table.!!!!!. I am sorry, but you cannot insult a restaurant ,with a comment like she is supposed to have made, if indeed it can be called a restaurant. Take your custom elsewhere, where it is appreciated.

[moe666]

Slander is a crime in Thailand (not merely a tort).

The Truth is not a complete defence (unlike the UK).

Many a man has ended up arrested on arrival at the airport for saying things, in say, Switzerland, that resulted in a court action and a guilty verdict against him, without him even knowing.

Be cautious. Or is that cook-tious.

And you have documentaion of these arrest.