The Darker Side Of Cm

[sarahsbloke]

I would think discussing it does cause problems.

But mainly for TV, the numbers of posters dissing Thailand is reaching amazing heights on this forum.

I am of the opinion that sooner or later TV will be another banned website in Thailand.

Poking holes in the country you are a guest in, can't be a wise move.

Especially when there is no reason to do it, you can't change anything.

If you believe this to be a positive and constructive discussion, what do suggest the TV readers do ...... apart from blow some hot air.

This appears to me just another excuse for Thai bashing. Something specifically against forum rules.

[buddhalady]

Granted, we should not ignore child prostitution/sex abuse if we see it, but I haven't seen any of it, and to the best of my knowledge no one I know is involved in it. For obvious reasons I'm not going to go looking for it. While I'm all for ending the appalling business and doing whatever it takes to keep adults from harming children, what do you expect the expat who isn't a pervert to do?

I agree

This really a topic that has nothing to do with an expat forum.

What Thais get up to is totally out of our control.

Posting it in this forum is just a waste of everyones time.

Who was it that said 'all it needs for evil to triumph is for the good to stand by and do nothing'?

How can anyone with a conscience not feel the need to at least discuss these issues, in the hope that in the internet age more awareness of what really does go on might do some good? Of course, what happens here is out of our control, but to suggest that child slavery has nothing to do with an expat forum and posters are wasting their time is pushing it too far.

I might also add the multiracial London area in which I lived wasn't far from a district infamous for trafficked girls forced into prostitution by Albanian gangs. No white residents dared to suggest the immigrant population should keep their silence, and we all risked it by writing to the papers, protesting etc. Not suggesting we do that here, BUT....

[Nawtier]

you can't change anything.

Awesome attitude.

[folium]

Granted, we should not ignore child prostitution/sex abuse if we see it, but I haven't seen any of it, and to the best of my knowledge no one I know is involved in it. For obvious reasons I'm not going to go looking for it. While I'm all for ending the appalling business and doing whatever it takes to keep adults from harming children, what do you expect the expat who isn't a pervert to do?

I agree

This really a topic that has nothing to do with an expat forum.

What Thais get up to is totally out of our control.

Posting it in this forum is just a waste of everyones time.

As the OP and having made sure that this topic stays open, what does your post add to the debate? If you want to contribute something to the debate please do so, if not move along please.

Child abuse is not just a Thai issue but one that does involve the expat community in many different ways.

If your logic is carried on to any subject that involves "What Thais get up to" and " is totally out of our control", does that mean this forum cannot discuss the upcoming Thai election, Thai politics, the border conflict with Cambodia, corruption etc etc All these involve entirely or largely what Thais get up to and are totally out of our control and cannot therefore be discussed?

No one is saying that there are easy answers to child abuse but the key thing is that people need to be aware of the issue ("rose tinted specs" are probably worn by many in the expat community in this regard ), and once aware this can provoke a discussion where the issue, possible solutions and problems can be highlighted and batted around.

Don't see the problem with that, but if you don't want to be involved in the debate that's up to you, other people think differently.

As for Thai bashing there are many Thais and Thai organizations addressing this issue, the more awareness is generated the more people can contribute to eradicating this problem. Without wishing to sound uber-pretentious Friedrich Engels (Karl Marx's buddy) wrote The Condition of the Working Class in England in 1844. This was not Brit bashing by an interfering German expat, but a superb awareness raising book highlighting the horrors of the Industrial Revolution and helped the campaign to reduce these (and was a lot better book than his later co-authored effort with Karl, before anyone calls me a commie apologist).

As for causing TV problems, this debate reopened/unlocked last night with this post:

Please note that the OP of this thread did contact me as requested and has managed to post a rational discussion of an important issue rather than a rant aimed at one person. Further discussion of moderation will not be tolerated.

This topic can stay open so long as we are aware that there are ground rules and those rules include no personal attacks and the ability to keep it civil and within the bounds of this forum.

If you would rather close your eyes and walk away that's your call.

Edited May 25, 2011 by folium

[WinnieTheKhwai]

This really a topic that has nothing to do with an expat forum.

What Thais get up to is totally out of our control.

Posting it in this forum is just a waste of everyones time.

So.. in a post not too far above yours there was somene who stated he completely did not know it happens.. Now he does. Next time he comes across a suspicious situation he may be more alert and report it to any of the NGOs or special police units.. That's a waste of time??

There is really slimy stuff that goes on in all parts of the globe, but you REALLY have to know where to go looking to find it. Before I got involved in trying to help I would make sure I had police protection before sticking my nose in places where it isn't wanted. It might be too easy to get lumped in with the abusers and get charged yourself.

I don't get this at all; all that's required is to speak up in the unlikely event that you notice something wrong / highly suspicious. This is the same thing that you're being asked to do on all the posters and billboards, to raise an alert to specific NGOs or policy units. It's not like you would be actively meddling in places and getting caught up in it!

[Paagai]

Good post Paagai......agree with much, disagree with some.

The mention of 'do gooders' seems to be cast as an overall general put down to people that wish to help.

Nothing wrong with people helping and nothing wrong with people that can and do, by whatever means they use to raise funds to do so, in providing an education for some that would be otherwise lacking, or non existent.

While granted some are not run properly and fall apart and some do perpetuate the problem, this seems to be a problem based on the management of each individual project, rather than an overall across the board situation.

This is a very difficult area and I don't dispute there are many who want to help, and a few who do great work. But, I have my doubts about the motives, abilities and real understanding of the cultural issues by many of those I labelled "do gooders". There are professional NGOs and foreign government agencies working with Thai authorities on an agenda of reducing child sex abuse, some targeting western pedophiles and some on more endemic problems. This is an area of law enforcement that requires expertise; it's not something for well meaning amateurs, or anti pedophile vigilantes to get involved with.

When it comes to "saving children" this has different meanings to different people, but I fear too many NGOs involved in this field believe the child has not been "saved" until they've been converted to that NGO's religous beliefs. To me this is also abuse. If an NGO is involved with caring for the victims of abuse, within their native cultural environment, fine, but it should be with defined boundaries and not with ulterior motives.

Several posters expressed the view this topic is irrelevant as "we" can't make a difference. In fact, it is exactly because of discussions like this on public forums, which do get noticed by Thai authorities, that things will slowly change. We can also make a difference by being vigilant about what our fellow Farangs are up to and reporting suspected abuse in an "appropriate" way. A visit to the local BIB to make a complaint may not only be ineffective but could place you in considerable danger. Much better to report the matter to another authority, e.g. the suspects own embassy or consulate, or the police in their home country. Alternatively, through an effective NGO - one such has a website for reporting suspects here: Stop the child sex trade - Report Offenders

Edited May 25, 2011 by Paagai

[Thaifan2]

In my Catholic Church its rampant ,but i have yet to see any problem with the Buddhists and their religion .

[Amras]

I would think discussing it does cause problems.

But mainly for TV, the numbers of posters dissing Thailand is reaching amazing heights on this forum.

I am of the opinion that sooner or later TV will be another banned website in Thailand.

Poking holes in the country you are a guest in, can't be a wise move.

Especially when there is no reason to do it, you can't change anything.

If you believe this to be a positive and constructive discussion, what do suggest the TV readers do ...... apart from blow some hot air.

This appears to me just another excuse for Thai bashing. Something specifically against forum rules.

I do agree with you on one point. 'Thai bashing' does nothing and I think people who do it should get warned and if they continue banned.

I still don't understand those who criticize Thailand and Thai people for no other reason than to do it. SO I do agree with you on that, 100%.

Especially those who live there and then complain about it. The solution is quite simple, leave. But that's another topic. Thailand has it's problems, as does every other country in the world, even all our 'elite' Western countries. But discussion can sometimes lead somewhere. If there's people monitoring websites like this inside Thailand to see if 'Thai bashing' is being done. Well then maybe, just maybe discussions like these 'may' get someone's attention one day. Even if it makes the difference one day somewhere to one life, it's all worth it in my opinion.

I hate Thai bashing, but sweeping problems like this under the rug doesn't help this situation either.

[Paagai]

I hate Thai bashing, but sweeping problems like this under the rug doesn't help this situation either.

I'm not sure where the "Thai bashing" thing comes from. There is nothing on this thread I've seen attacking Thai's, or condemning their behaviour. Only posts pointing out the way things are here and the issues related to that.

This is a difficult subject with no easy answers, it's only by rational discussion and raising awareness that things will eventually change.

[robbo1]

I work in a prison in Australia and phaodophiles are everywhere.

They are the most polite in prison but the most dispised.

The people who travel over seas to places like Thailand and other Asian countries have no morals

and do not deserve any type of understanding or care.

I honestly believe that chemical carstration is the only answer for these type of people.

[Nawtier]

I work in a prison in Australia and phaodophiles are everywhere.

They are the most polite in prison but the most dispised.

The people who travel over seas to places like Thailand and other Asian countries have no morals

and do not deserve any type of understanding or care.

I honestly believe that chemical carstration is the only answer for these type of people.

Slip something in their nightly cocoa for us will you...

[elektrified]

I have a very trusted friend who holds a high position at a prominent uni here in CM and is from the Koran (sp?) Hill Tribes.

He/she is probably Karen? The Thais pronounce it Galen or Gal-yen kinda...

sarahsbloke, on 2011-05-25 16:33:48, said:

"...you can't change anything."

"...This appears to me just another excuse for Thai bashing. Something specifically against forum rules."

Indeed people can make a difference as they have done in countries all around the world. Example: CNN has been reporting these types of stories for a couple of years now and exposing the offenders. International law enforcement agencies are now acting from inside Thailand. Some of these abusers are behind bars now -- in Thailand. Others are doing their time in their home countries. Monks have been jailed.

You have some weird thing about accusing people of "Thai bashing" like you did in another thread. No one is Thai bashing.

Edited May 25, 2011 by elektrified

[DiamondKing]

Before you can discuss or condemn what goes on, you have to first understand the cultural context in Thailand, and view the issue from a Thai rather than western standpoint. From what I see, young people having sex post puberty is not a big cultural taboo or seen as a problem by a lot of Thais, be it having sex with their peers or with older Thais. The age of consent is generally regarded as 15 and my Thai friends tell me many amusing stories of what they got up to as young teenagers, with no shame, embarrassment or remorse.

You also have to understand the local sex industry (Thai - Thai) is a major economic driver in Thailand (and many places elsewhere in Asia) provided it is discreet, it is again not a major Taboo. In and around Chiang Mai there are many brothels of one type or another where young people provide sexual services to Thai customers. Not all are forced into it, some may have been trafficked from outside the country (Burma, Laos, China), some may have been sold by their parents, or kidnapped, but equally some are just school kids making some extra cash (often just to pay for drugs). This is big business and is run by the usual mafias where the game keepers are also the poachers, this isn't going to change any time soon. Anyone who thinks reporting activities to the local BIB will produce results doesn't understand the situation

Some rural Thais (especially hill tribe) also see their kids as their providers; sending them to actively get involved in the sex industry and send money home, or worse still simply selling them like the rice crop.

The above may come as a shock, and maybe morally abhorrent and incomprehensible to many westerners, but, TIT and just the way things are.

The problem comes when you insert western people and thinking into the above. Firstly, you have western pedophiles coming here to get, what is not available at home, and secondly, the "do gooders" who seek to impose western values on the situation. Some of which is good, some ill advised. Some "do gooders" then become part of the problem, e.g. setting up schools etc, where child abuse becomes part of the curriculum.

In my opinion, the only way things will change is by a gradual process of educating the people, and removing the root causes which are poverty and corruption. Not something that will happen quickly in Thailand. Those who want to have some real long term effect would be better engaged in lobbying the Thai governmental bodies and Thai people for change than some forms of direct action we see.

WOW so you call people who want to stamp out pedeophiles do gooders

Interesting thought prospective

[Johpa]

I have a very trusted friend who holds a high position at a prominent uni here in CM and is from the Koran (sp?) Hill Tribes. He related a story to me about how he wishes he and his department could do something to stop the selling of the children in the hill tribe (and Thai) villages in the area. When he told me the details of how someone would come into the village and just simply buy some of the children, and then the village throws a party to celebrate the event!

Balderdash! Having lived off and on in the hills for several decades now I have never heard of such an event. I do know families who have sold their children. There is no celebration, only a resigned and great sadness. Today there is far less "tok kiow" where the Chinese traders would come looking for the young ones just finishing elementary school. Today it is mostly refugees from Burma, internally displaced folks, kids who have no parents who enter "the trade". Listen to the interviews and all the kids are speaking simplified Thai with an accent. In Chiang Mai it is often young Akha and Karen boys working the western tourist crowd. Bangkok is the center for the young girls and it is mostly, and has long been, a domestic customer base, but not exclusively.

[Amras]

I hate Thai bashing, but sweeping problems like this under the rug doesn't help this situation either.

I'm not sure where the "Thai bashing" thing comes from. There is nothing on this thread I've seen attacking Thai's, or condemning their behaviour. Only posts pointing out the way things are here and the issues related to that.

This is a difficult subject with no easy answers, it's only by rational discussion and raising awareness that things will eventually change.

I agree with you. Nothing of Thai bashing in this thread (as opposed to the numerous other posts in other threads that have). I was just pointing out Thai bashing is pointless and agreeing with him only on that point. But it's not a reason to close this discussion, in fear of thai bashing coming up as it does in most other threads.

[richard10365]

I don't like to see children exploited for any reason but find extremely disturbing when the exploitation is sexually related. If I was to run across it I would report it and do what I could to stop it.

While I won't intentionally go out looking for people abusing children I do think there is some merit to discuss our disdain for those who do. Those that do abuse children sexually should know that our society here in Chiang Mai has no patience for people who harm children. We should discuss and send the message if we find you here doing this we will report you.

When I think of the horrors of the Thai prison system in Bangkok I feel this is the perfect place for those in the practice of sexually abusing children. Lock them up and forget about them. No mercy packages, no letters from home, and no hope for the future.

[Semper]

So getting back on topic, the thing that struck me the most was something I was already expecting for a long time, namely that child abuse may occur at some Buddhist temples very much to the same degree as we have seen it uncovered in the Roman Catholic faith. In Buddhist temples, even MORE so than in Catholic churches, young children (apprentice monks) live in a temple compound 24/7. The exposure is much bigger, and Buddhist monks are also held to celibacy. I think we will see a lot more of this in the coming years.

For example, I would definitely not let my son attend any kind of unsupervised stay at any temple.

For reference, the CNN report from Chiang Mai is here: http://edition.cnn.c...aves.cnn?hpt=C2

Yes , we must believe this.

[millwall_fan]

I find that there is a sadness in discussing this topic.

As many of you know I have a couple of little ones here and couldn't love them more if they were my grandchildren of my blood. Little PoPo is of an age now where she can go with 'gran'pa' on certain shopping trips. I wonder some times how others see us, as a grandpa with his grandaughter or as some kind of a pervert with a little girl. But it still is a very warm feeling inside being out shopping with her, and her helping grandpa by holding the pen and shopping list. So thoughts put aside, I still feel good seeing her learn and develop her abilities.

Having said that, I would just like to add something that was told to me some time ago.

"Say what you will about paedophiles, but you have to give them credit,,,, they do slow down in school zones.

I don't think anyone would think of you and little PoPo as anything other than a lovng grandad and his grand-daughter, Gonzo. And i would hope that none of the discussion here will ever stop you taking her shopping or doing anything else that grandparents and grandkids get up to.

I remember a few years ago a good friend of mine who used to own a bar in Chiang Mai, telling me that whilst he was walking around Kad Suan Kaew with his step son, who would have been around 9 at the time, a western woman walked past and audibly muttered 'disgusting' My friend being more mild mannered than me merely remonstrated verbally with her. But what bloody cheek!

As a father, step-father and uncle to 6 children, boys and girls in Chiang Mai and having lived here for several years, I would say that the city has no greater or leser problem with peadophile activity than anywhere else in the world. i also think that the Thais should be left to put their own house in order and not be subject to interference from NGO types seeking to justify their fat expense accounts by finding Pedo's around every corner. Sure Poverty exacerbates child exploitation in some areas, but so do aspects of Western life - such as divorce and the lack of extended families.

[cloudhopper]

i also think that the Thais should be left to put their own house in order and not be subject to interference from NGO types seeking to justify their fat expense accounts by finding Pedo's around every corner.

[mccw]

I just saw a charity on tv in england say 100,000 children go missing in Uk every year. That's equivillant to 1 every five minutes. How many of them are dead or trapped in sexual slavery but unaccounted for by the system / off the radar.

Any statistics out there for thai numbers 'sold' or trafficked or abducted?

I think the age of consent needs to be at least 15 or 16, even if it could be argued it's possible for a 13 or 14 year old to give consent, so as to protect them by putting the onus on the elder to say no rather than the youngster. But between kids of a similar age like 1 or 2 years apart from puberty upwards it's normal to mess about in discovering that we are sexual creatures; I know I certainly did.

This idea that it's culturally acceptable to Asians to be pedos is totally wrong! Everyone I know would rather kill a man than sell their prepubescent child to them. The idea is sickening.

If a pedo is identified with irrefutable proof of defiling an under 13 year old then they should be jailed for life in horrific conditions with bare minimum of expense to the tax payer as possible, never let them go as will always be a menace. What's going on with the sentencing in Uk , like 4 or five years for f*cling babies?!? What's the punishment in Thailand, anyone know?

I think there is good and bad like a law of nature, like positive and negative, newtons motions and all that. Some things are just plain wrong; just because A majority of people believe something isn't wrong doesn't make it right, same goes the other way around.

Peoples deeds will take them to where they are going weather they accept them for what they are or not.

(disclaimer- I'm not a religious nut- this is just where I find myself in the philosophy of morals subjective vs objectivity/ importance of few vs many minds ie The Crazy man might be the only sane one left but it doesn't make him good or bad.

[lanna2011]

I hate Thai bashing, but sweeping problems like this under the rug doesn't help this situation either.

I'm not sure where the "Thai bashing" thing comes from. There is nothing on this thread I've seen attacking Thai's, or condemning their behaviour. Only posts pointing out the way things are here and the issues related to that.

This is a difficult subject with no easy answers, it's only by rational discussion and raising awareness that things will eventually change.

I agree with you. Nothing of Thai bashing in this thread (as opposed to the numerous other posts in other threads that have). I was just pointing out Thai bashing is pointless and agreeing with him only on that point. But it's not a reason to close this discussion, in fear of thai bashing coming up as it does in most other threads.

Isn't it more to do with 'Pedo' bashing? why define it as or not as 'Thai bashing'? to be depolored everywhere - where ever it is found

[Nawtier]

Thais should be left to put their own house in order and not be subject to interference from NGO types seeking to justify their fat expense accounts by finding Pedo's around every corner.

So by this recommendation everyone else should just turn a blind eye to Thai people if they are performing such acts on children ?

Does this go for the westerners here also....because it is Thailand and involves Thai kids and people....should this be left for them to sort out in their own house also ??

While some NGO's and organisations may run with less than positive motives....I doubt very much it is the majority.

I would think most put what they are doing before any fat expense account.

[Nawtier]

I am intrigued to know why do so many people think that an NGO or charity in most cases exists only to do evil and ripoff their fat expense accounts ?

That they are 'in the way' most of the time and should never help, mind their own business and basically bugger off ?

[Beetlejuice]

Every city has it`s dark side, just that most people prefer to turn a blind eye to it.

Extreme child abuse, examples such as seen in the videos, are rife because most Governments do not consider the plights of the ignorant and the poor as priority cases and the general public do not have enough concerns to lobby their governments into clamping down hard on the child rapists and getting these children off the streets and into safe environments. Therefore resources are not put into the welfare and well being of these under privileged children.

Until nations begin opening their eyes and viewing the problem in it`s true perspective, by taking a no tolerance line against those that would harm children with the backing of resources and stringent law enforcements, then these sordid crimes will continue.

[Diablo Bob]

I am intrigued to know why do so many people think that an NGO or charity in most cases exists only to do evil and ripoff their fat expense accounts ?

That they are 'in the way' most of the time and should never help, mind their own business and basically bugger off ?

Let me give you my take on NGO's, I can't relate any experience from Thailand, but I have been working side by side with them in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan & Somalia, and very few were good experiences.

First off, the NGO's that I have experience with specialized in projects involving US State Department (USAID) funding. To be qualified as an NGO, there can be no profit, the intent was/is for the funding to actually reach the target project by providing capitol improvements, hiring local labor and giving a community something (Experience, schools, clinics, agriculture etc) when the project ends that improves their lives. The intent is well founded and admirable, the implimentation is where the process failed.

Many (Not all) of the NGO's brought in Westerners at very high salaries, then staffed their offices with high salaried staff living in expensive accomodations. These NGO's would fly their Western employees off to Dubai on a monthly basis for R&R (All expenses paid). Everything was an expense....... nothing trickled down to the actual project. Louis Berger International (Not an NGO) was tasked with overseeing the Schools & Clinics program in Afghanistan. They distributed 25 million dollars to various NGO's to construct and staff 100 schools and clinics in various towns throughout Afghanistan. 1 1/2 years later when everything was all said and done, 1 school had actually been constructed and staffed and 1 school was 75% complete and ALL the money had been spent by the NGOs.

This happened in construction, similar horror stories come from the Agriculture NGO's, one group purchased farm equipment from John Deere to make the farmers lives easier. Admirable goal, but in the part of Afghanistan that it was suppose to work there is no supply of Diesel fuel and even more tragic the JD equipment had state of the art GPS for micro fertilisation. The instrumentation is hard enough to teach an educted Westerner try an Afghan farmer who has never gone to school, doesn't understand a fertization report nor has access to a laboratory to test the soil samples, we won't even talk about the problems is the sampling. This one tractor cost in Iowa almost 3/4 of a million dollars, how many reqular simple tractors could have been purchased for that lump of cash?

With all the bad, there were bright spots. The actual medical community has done an excellent job in training doctors. The womens NGO's again have had a really difficult time but have percerviered. It isn't all bad. But the bad is what I remember.

[james24]

There's a guy called Bill Maloney from PienMash films who does some intereting films on this subject and its prevelance in Uk royalty and governments.

He's a bit up front wiht his language sometimes but the docs he does are actually quite good

[Beetlejuice]

I am intrigued to know why do so many people think that an NGO or charity in most cases exists only to do evil and ripoff their fat expense accounts ?

That they are 'in the way' most of the time and should never help, mind their own business and basically bugger off ?

Let me give you my take on NGO's, I can't relate any experience from Thailand, but I have been working side by side with them in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan & Somalia, and very few were good experiences.

First off, the NGO's that I have experience with specialized in projects involving US State Department (USAID) funding. To be qualified as an NGO, there can be no profit, the intent was/is for the funding to actually reach the target project by providing capitol improvements, hiring local labor and giving a community something (Experience, schools, clinics, agriculture etc) when the project ends that improves their lives. The intent is well founded and admirable, the implimentation is where the process failed.

Many (Not all) of the NGO's brought in Westerners at very high salaries, then staffed their offices with high salaried staff living in expensive accomodations. These NGO's would fly their Western employees off to Dubai on a monthly basis for R&R (All expenses paid). Everything was an expense....... nothing trickled down to the actual project. Louis Berger International (Not an NGO) was tasked with overseeing the Schools & Clinics program in Afghanistan. They distributed 25 million dollars to various NGO's to construct and staff 100 schools and clinics in various towns throughout Afghanistan. 1 1/2 years later when everything was all said and done, 1 school had actually been constructed and staffed and 1 school was 75% complete and ALL the money had been spent by the NGOs.

This happened in construction, similar horror stories come from the Agriculture NGO's, one group purchased farm equipment from John Deere to make the farmers lives easier. Admirable goal, but in the part of Afghanistan that it was suppose to work there is no supply of Diesel fuel and even more tragic the JD equipment had state of the art GPS for micro fertilisation. The instrumentation is hard enough to teach an educted Westerner try an Afghan farmer who has never gone to school, doesn't understand a fertization report nor has access to a laboratory to test the soil samples, we won't even talk about the problems is the sampling. This one tractor cost in Iowa almost 3/4 of a million dollars, how many reqular simple tractors could have been purchased for that lump of cash?

With all the bad, there were bright spots. The actual medical community has done an excellent job in training doctors. The womens NGO's again have had a really difficult time but have percerviered. It isn't all bad. But the bad is what I remember.

Although organisations such as NGO and various charities do sometimes obtain good results, I just see these set ups as jobs for the lads.

The core of the problem lies with the Governments themselves and should not be left in the hands of independent bodies with a do gooder approach.

I doubt that the atrocities of child slave labour, human trafficking and child sexual exploitation have decreased and probably more widespread than ever, therefore showing that the present methods used by these outfits are not cost effective, not working and too expensive for the low percentage of results obtained.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[PlanetX]

There are two types of child pedos

Your run of the mill sick pervert that is caught and stirs up the community

And the elite in churches, governments, media, etc that control the major market

If you can't see how little girl fashion shows and youtube videos of little girls dancing to beyonce is not influenced by a mass market for pedos, then you really don't understand anything about the issue

The MASSES allow this to happen. They allow Disney to parade their underaged starlets around in skimpy clothes to influence all of the other little girls and parents willfully allow this

Look at Britney, Christina, Miley, etc It goes on and on -- sexualizing little girls at a very early age

And science is looking for a reason why young girls are hitting puberty so much earlier? The studies just fail to mention the onslaught of sexually related images that completely bombard them on a daily basis

Hollywood is the biggest pedo of them all and knows exactly what it is doing

Wake up to the real issues

[folium]

There are two types of child pedos

Your run of the mill sick pervert that is caught and stirs up the community

And the elite in churches, governments, media, etc that control the major market

If you can't see how little girl fashion shows and youtube videos of little girls dancing to beyonce is not influenced by a mass market for pedos, then you really don't understand anything about the issue

The MASSES allow this to happen. They allow Disney to parade their underaged starlets around in skimpy clothes to influence all of the other little girls and parents willfully allow this

Look at Britney, Christina, Miley, etc It goes on and on -- sexualizing little girls at a very early age

And science is looking for a reason why young girls are hitting puberty so much earlier? The studies just fail to mention the onslaught of sexually related images that completely bombard them on a daily basis

Hollywood is the biggest pedo of them all and knows exactly what it is doing

Wake up to the real issues

Before things start to get out of hand can we keep the discussion focused on Chiang Mai and the issues/problems/possible solutions for child abuse or exploitation here. Otherwise this thread will get closed down.

We've had some great contributions so far, please keep the posts relevant and avoid rants. Thanks.

[IanForbes]

About 12 years ago a small group of us turned a Norweigen guy into the police in Pattaya and he eventually got sentenced to 14 years in prison. But I think the kicker that really stung him is he didn't pay off the Thai lady who was procuring the children for him. The authorities were already on his trail and she was the final straw that got him convicted. Fortunately, Thailand does work with foreign authorities on the problem and there have been numerous cases where paedophiles from North America have been caught and sent back. I would have rather seen them spned time in a Thai jail than the resorts that pass as prisons in Canada..