Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[hardy1943]

Democrats and its allies are the problem facing Thailand today.

They always where! They are the furthest thing from Democrats or a democracy. They are the elite, the rich Chinese and sleep with the military and the he_l with the average Thai.

They can have 20 more elections and will never win! They only will get in to power getting appointed by the military just like the last time.

For us that have been living here awhile know the power play of the military and they do not like the outcome from July 3 and their bed fellows been the so called Democrats!

I am just curious of the outcome.

Edited July 8, 2011 by hardy1943

[somchai jones]

Even so, more people voted for PT than voted for the Dems. A mandate from the people should mean something to people calling themselves democrats. Hanging on to power by means of the courts will not bring stability to the country. How can they not see that this move will bring more problems than it solves? In fact, what problem will it solve?

If PT and their supporters realise that they have a majority, and a mandate, but are not allowed to have power by democratic means, that does not mean that they will just say "oh ok then, fair enough, you run the country...sorry!"

Really really stupid idea. If you don't like the party that's been voted in, fair enough. Let them rule, show themselves for what they are, then the next election, you campaign against them. If you're right, and they're not popular, you'll win.

If you don't agree with how they rule, but they still have a majority, you lose.

Not all majority parties/governments are what we think they should be. That's just tough. The alternatives are worse. You get a large portion of your population who see no point in the democratic process and resort to other means to get what they think they deserve.

The result is a bloody mess.

Whatever 'side' you're on, things like this never make things better.

Good post

[webfact]

Democrats to ask EC to advise Court to dissolve Pheu Thai for allowing politicians subject to five-year bans to be involved in planning and video addresses /MCOT (sms)

[animatic]

... If there is truth to it, people who voted for PTP should be angry. Not with the Dems or with the judiciary, but with the PTP for being so stupid... again.

Yes spot on.

If it's proved then, they are proved, yet again, to be that stupid.

He who doesn't learn from history is doomed to repeat it.

[hanuman2543]

It was only a question of time before Abhisit the "gentleman" cries foul and rely on the judicial system to change a defeat into??

Don't know what Abhisit has got to do with this. He probably wouldn't touch the PM's job again with a barge pole.

Nice username, though.

Abhisit is the "brain" of the Democrats like Thaksin for the PTP and both are pulling the strings in the back. When the Democrats can form the government again he will be their PM no doubt about this.

Thanks for the compliment

[citizen33]

In other parts of the universe, I would probably agree with you, but this is Neverland. Remember what happened after the 2006 coup? The junta quickly introduced an Interim Constitution, which gave immunity (Article 37) to the coup leaders for their act of treason. I can hardly wait to hear the reactions of those members and supporters of the Democrat Party who were closely associated with the coup (Prayuth, Prawit etc etc) if the new Government under Yingluck decides to let themselves off the hook by fiddling with the later permanent Charter, which, incidentally, was rail-roaded into existence by the junta following a highly mischievous referendum process.

Yes, that is what I meant by the double-edged sword. If the issue is the rule of law Thailand must ensure that the foundation is in place. Arguably that is the 1997 Constitution.

Edited July 8, 2011 by citizen33

[rubl]

Is there any country where a political party would be allowed to be steered by a fugitive convict? Even in Thailand this is against the law !

Posted 2011-04-07 06:50:36

Pheu Thai will unveil its policies on April 24

By Samatcha Hoonsara

The Nation

Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will preside long-distance over the unveiling of the Pheu Thai Party's election platform on April 24.

Thaksin will phone in during the event at Thammasat University's auditorium, the party's economics expert, Pichai Naripthaphan, said yesterday.

The platform will tackle the country's problems at the structural level, he said.

Posted 2011-04-25 11:55:09

Pheu Thai Party Announces Policies for Upcoming Election

The Pheu Thai Party has announced its election campaign plans, with ousted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra making a two-hour speech in a video-link address.

During the Pheu Thai Party's election campaign announcement at Thammasat University on Saturday, self-exiled former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, through video conferencing, announced the party's policies, which employs the slogans “Thaksin Thinks, Pheu Thai Delivers” and “Think Different, Do Different for All Thais”.

[animatic]

There is something to be said for letting PTP try and fail spectacularly.

But if they did not get elected legally, then they actually are NOT elected.

That really should be determined, whether most of their MPs stay in office or all of them.

In any case the Rule Of Law will be applied.

"In any case the Rule Of Law will be applied."

Yep, just like it has been for decades in Thailand. Not.

Interestingly when it does get applied, then the

'it wasn't before' argument is used by the losing side to excuse it being done now.

Sooooooo, finally starting to apply the law is a double standard?

[Pi Sek]

Actually, since it is likely both of the majors (PTP and Dems) are guilty of vote buying, it would be interesting to see them both banned from politics. Let Thailand get a real first chance at establishing something meaningful.

Exactly.

I saw irregularities, small and big, in the case of all parties. In circumstances such as these in a fully developed democracy, all parties would be raising electoral complaints against all other parties. This complaint is, in my opinion, a vehicle to promote a more democratic process, as democracy rests on the precipice of the Law - although I would not write off sour grapes as part of the motivation.

[CockneyGit]

Absolutely BRILLIANT idea....

Let's get the winning party banned then we can put our own man in place to be PM, just like we did a couple of years ago.

Then we'll go to the polls again... and bugger me, the Reds once again win an election.

Round and round and round we go.....

They just can't accept defeat these so called "Democrats"..!!

[slim]

Perhaps all the Thaksin haters and by implication Democrat supporters will now wake up and realize the true nature of the people they support.

No-one who support the current government support democracy.

The people in as free and fair election as you are ever going to have in Thailand have decided and they've come out in their millions to defeat the current administration.

This current Democratic Party move (Democratic? - what a joke) opens the door for a return to seeing tanks on the streets of Bangkok yet again.

I dont suppose it will be long.

Mmmm why does anyone that critisises the Red or any associated party have to be Thaksin haters??? Its peruile trash like that which casues every discussion here to fall into meaningless reguritation of recycled pamphlet propoganda - please use your own intelligence and arguements rather than jumping on the "red under the bed" type of hysterior.

"No-one who support the current government support democracy." erm do you switch sides in alternative sentences??? You DO realise that the current government is not a Democrat one??? Or was that a copy and Paste from earlier drivel?

I would hope that Thailand can muster the ability to include all voters next time and not, through incompetance and silly rules, miss out a million votes (not saying the result would be any diffwerent - just that the latest vote can hardly be called 'the most free and fair as you are ever going to have'[sic].

It is interesting to mention tanks on streets with relation to the Democrats to - I am sure they will deny that one - the coup was the last time tanks rolled through the streets and the Democrats were not in power at that point - and the Army did what the amry does - you don't think the Democrat party ordered it, surely. Or perhaps you mean the soldiers on the streets during the Bangkok riots - I wonder which country would not in such a scenario - I guaratee you Thaksin would have if it had happened to him - he certainly did order flowers to be thrown in the South.

I too believe this could be a silly move by the Democrats, but I don't think it justifies a sillier post in response. Oh, and before you accuse me of being a Thaksin hater, I am not - I have argued before in his defense (when equally silly posts were made) and have stated severalo times that many of the ideals of the Red's (though not necessarily the PTP - and certainly not all their policies) are good ideas. Political debate should be just that, a debate, not babies throwing dumbies at each other.

"Mmmm why does anyone that critisises the Red or any associated party have to be Thaksin haters???" - they dont have to be but having read all the bolox talked about Thaksin on Thaivisa for the last 7 years by people who are clueless about what Thaksin has done for the rural people of Thailand - they nearly always are.

The Democrats "right to rule" (yes - we'll have elections as long as we win) was destroyed when Thaksin won the Jan 2001 General Election by winning 248 of the 500 seats taking 40.6% of the vote. The Democrats won 128 seats with 26.6%

The February 2005 election was won by T.R.T. with the highest voter turnout in Thai history - Thaksin's party winning 375 of the 500 seats with 60.7% of the electorate voting for him.

The election of April 2006 where Thai Ruk Thai was unopposed saw Thaksin win 460 seats winning 61% of the valid votes.

Following the declaration that this election was illegal, intervention by the military, the enforced disbanding of T.R.T. and Thaksins self imposed exile the December 2007 general election with the T.R.T. now standing as the P.P.P. saw the P.P.P. win 233 of the 500 seats with the Democrats behind (again) with 165.

These results speak for themselves. The voice of the people of Thailand is NOT being heard. The current government has NO mandate from the people to govern even though their right to govern is legitimate (with coalitions).

Even now having been defeated yet again by a landslide they refuse to accept defeat.

Every word I posted was legitimate and fair.

You are clearly not mature enough to understand particularly the last reference about the Army when the head of the Army in Thailand is a sworn Democrat and even urged the People to "do the right thing" and not vote Pheu Thai.

Edited July 8, 2011 by slim

[noahvail]

It was only a question of time before Abhisit the "gentleman" cries foul and rely on the judicial system to change a defeat into??

Don't know what Abhisit has got to do with this. He probably wouldn't touch the PM's job again with a barge pole.

Nice username, though.

Abhisit is the "brain" of the Democrats like Thaksin for the PTP and both are pulling the strings in the back. When the Democrats can form the government again he will be their PM no doubt about this.

Thanks for the compliment

Wow - Abhisit has gone from the "puppet" to the "puppet-master"???? Amazing transformation since he quit as party leader.

[bifftastic]

Quite frankly, I think they should Phuea Thai let govern the country. The first to suffer from their silly policies are the poor. It's time the poor and the reds get a real feel of what Phuea Thai is, otherwise they will never realize the truth. The workers are already calling for the 300 Baht wage raise, the reds are already calling for seats in Parliament and ministeries. Phuea Thai fed them with promises, now they are hungry and want the meat to be delivered. Raise the wages and let smaller factories go bankrupt so those workers will get jobless and end up having no income at all, let larger factories lay off people to cope with the increased cost and let those who remain work harder. Give tablets to all students so they don't do anything more than sitting around with their dammed tablets playing games, or eventually throwing them in a corner becase the parents can't afford the internet connection. Why get them banned and be the bad guy again? Let Phuea Thai govern and fail.

Exactly right! Given the opportunity to govern they will show themselves for what they are, if it doesn't work, everyone will see! If they are constantly prevented from governing, they will always be the 'hard-done-by voice of the people'

An unbelievably short-sighted and stupid move that does absolutely nothing for the country, or for the Dem's long-term future.

I also agree that it would be better for the country if this all comes to nothing, but i would like it to come to nothing because there is no foundation to it - .because PTP have followed the law. If they haven't, what do people expect the opposition party to do? To ignore it? To let it go? Why should they? Because people who voted for PTP will not like it?

If there is truth to it, people who voted for PTP should be angry. Not with the Dems or with the judiciary, but with the PTP for being so stupid... again.

True, but it's unlikely to be viewed like that. It will be seen as the Dems hanging on to power without a mandate.

The judiciary are seen as the one's who removed them from power last time.

Politics is all about perception. In a potentially unstable situation like this one, I just think it's very, very short-sighted and dangerous to start this kind of procedure right after the election.

I hope it comes to nothing, for the right reasons too!

[Valentine]

I think Animatic hit it on the head with his first post. It may just be another method of removing Mr T completely out of politics in Thailand. There must be quite a number of reds who would welcome not being associated with him anymore & if that came to pass then their policies & actions will carry more weight. Surely running a political party from abroad while being a convicted criminal & banned from all political activities must be a serious offence although I have no idea where the law stands in terms of punishment if convicted. It does seem that one has to actually be in the country & appear in court in order to be tried which leaves many felons enjoying a luxurious life overseas.

[whybother]

Democrats and its allies are the problem facing Thailand today.

They always where! They are the furthest thing from Democrats or a democracy. They are the elite, the rich Chinese and sleep with the military and the he_l with the average Thai.

They can have 20 more elections and will never win! They only will get in to power getting appointed by the military just like the last time.

For us that have been living here awhile know the power play of the military and they do not like the outcome from July 3 and their bed fellows been the so called Democrats!

I am just curious of the outcome.

Are you saying that "the elite, rich Chinese" Thaksin, that tried to sleep with the military when he appointed is relatives in top posts, is a Democrat?

[thaicbr]

If the Democrats follow this to conclusion then Newins and Barnhans lot should also be banned again. Leaving them with no friends.

[citizen33]

Wow - Abhisit has gone from the "puppet" to the "puppet-master"???? Amazing transformation since he quit as party leader.

You missed out the grim reaper (from the newspaper cartoon)!

Edited July 8, 2011 by citizen33

[Wallaby]

Why didn't the Dems contest the validity of PT or it's members before the election? It just makes the Dems look like little cry babies by running home to mummy after they don't get their way.

Could open a can of worms by finding out that both parties acted illegally, end up with the military in charge. Ahhh welcome Prime Minister General...

[beach]

Anyone else have a sense of deja vu?

How would you spell deja vu in plural? deja vues?

[Ricardo]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

"Such a mandate from the people"

Going by the provisional-figures, PTP's mandate is 53% of MPs and 44% of the votes, hardly an overwhelming mandate surely ?

Perhaps all the Thaksin haters and by implication Democrat supporters will now wake up and realize the true nature of the people they support.

No-one who support the current government support democracy.

I think you're being too simplistic here, it is perfectly possible to dislike Thaksin while still supporting the PTP, for example look at Khun Thida who is currently temporary-leader of the UDD/DAAD.

More importantly it is perfectly possibly to want to see life improve for the poor, while not supporting Thaksin's PTP, under it's current leadership. They do not have the monopoly on helping the poor, as the Democrat-led coalition-government has shown, over the past couple of years. But then failed to publicise so well as the Reds, during the recent campaign, that's because they need to raise their game when it comes to practical politicking, to do well against the very-professional Thaksin-machine.

It was only a question of time before Abhisit the "gentleman" cries foul and rely on the judicial system to change a defeat into??

I don't see anything in the OP, which says that the resigned-leader of the Democrats former-PM Abhisit, had anything to do with the decision to raise this complaint with the E.C.

If PTP have not broken the law, they have nothing to worry about.

Precisely !

But the way in which they have very clearly been guided and led by a banned-politician, always made it likely that someone might complain to the E.C., and yet Thaksin took the decision to be very publicly closely-involved with this latest reincarnation of TRT. In some ways this is understandable, because his name is their biggest political-asset, but he will also have known that it carried a risk too.

Why do the Reds, under Thaksin's clear & total leadership, continue to believe that they are above the law ? Why haven't they learned from the dissolution of TRT & later PPP ? Did they think that they were unelectable, unless Thaksin was clearly seen to be making all the decisions, or is Dear-Leader's 'face' more important than getting into power & helping the poor ?

This development was entirely likely & foreseeable. In saying "Full Speed Ahead and dam_n The Torpedoes", one runs a risk that the legal-torpedoes may indeed be launched, and hit their target !

Oh and to add, in fairness, I see no reason why other parties (who whispered BJT ?) might not also be targeted, via complaints to the E.C., no double-standards after-all.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Ricardo

[rixalex]

Abhisit is the "brain" of the Democrats like Thaksin for the PTP and both are pulling the strings in the back.

If you think that Abhisit's power and influence over the Democrat party is anything close to Thaksin's power and influence over the PT party, you are very much mistaken. Abhisit is a frontman, and a good frontman at that, but his hands are tied a lot of the time and his powers limited, as we have seen evidence of over the last couple of years.

Thaksin on the other hand; he says "jump" and all the underlings - that's everyone - politely enquire, "how high?"

[snorkelador]

Anybody who cries foul and undemocratic, should first of all try to comprehend that the principal of separation of powers is one of the pillars of democratic governance and be reminded that the reds tried to have the dems and BJT disbanded not too long ago. Trying to have the current opponent's party dissolved is a political sport around these necks of the wood.

In this case it it pretty damned clear that they broke the law, which is nothing new really. The last two times they got dissolved because of other reasons and now probably thought: What the hell they have not got us on that one so far, they won't do us for that now!". I do not think it is wise to throw them out straight away though. The possible dissolution should hover over their heads like the sword of Democles to keep them from getting too cocky. If they get out of control and let's face it: that is exactly the plan many, even if not all of the PTP, UDD, DAAD, red skirts or whatever, then put them back in their place through the legitimate courts using legitimate laws. Let them show the people how they will not follow up on the promises and do things they said they would not do. Seems the people have already forgotten how effective they were under the puppets of Samak and Somchai. They could not even get the most pressing things on their agenda done: whitewashing Thaksin and influencing the courts. With a bit of luck Thaksin has created a monster he cannot control. Just like in the French Revolution - the revolution is like Saturn, it eats it's own children.

Again admirers of the PTP and Thaksin, democracy is NOT the tyranny of the majority! Only because people voted for PTP does not give them a carte blanche to do whatever they want. Far from it, very far from it! If this is what you think should happen, then please stop using the term Democracy! What you are talking about is closer to Authoritarianism, Totalitarianism and possibly even bordering on Fascism, if pushed a couple of inches further. At least you guys are proposing to give them the power to take the whole show there!

[DumFarang]

Actually, since it is likely both of the majors (PTP and Dems) are guilty of vote buying, it would be interesting to see them both banned from politics. Let Thailand get a real first chance at establishing something meaningful.

Exactly.

I saw irregularities, small and big, in the case of all parties. In circumstances such as these in a fully developed democracy, all parties would be raising electoral complaints against all other parties. This complaint is, in my opinion, a vehicle to promote a more democratic process, as democracy rests on the precipice of the Law - although I would not write off sour grapes as part of the motivation.

Absolutely. Unfortunately as nice as the word "democracy" sounds evidence of it is usually found in the form of complaining.

[GaiUan]

Not as if it was not to be expected...

But this leads to -I think- an extremely interesting question:

If PTP (or any Thaksin-powered party) was running for the elections ONCE without any form of bribery and not arranging any public audio/video conference with their Dubai-based sponsor (I almost wrote 'sugar daddy'), so basically in a completely legal way (you are allowed to make populist promises), would they be elected?

If yes, then it's REALLY stupid, as they systematically give grounds to the dems to legally take action

If no, then what the dems do is really legitimate...

mock-rat and others here explain that it is obvious PTP won because everybody in the country wants them... ok, even without ฿500?

[whybother]

Why didn't the Dems contest the validity of PT or it's members before the election? It just makes the Dems look like little cry babies by running home to mummy after they don't get their way.

Could open a can of worms by finding out that both parties acted illegally, end up with the military in charge. Ahhh welcome Prime Minister General...

It was something that was brought up, even by PTP, prior to the election.

But overall, how would the election commission get the opportunity to rule BEFORE an election on things that might occur right up to the day before the election.

[wolfmanjack]

Perhaps all the Thaksin haters and by implication Democrat supporters will now wake up and realize the true nature of the people they support.

No-one who support the current government support democracy.

The people in as free and fair election as you are ever going to have in Thailand have decided and they've come out in their millions to defeat the current administration.

This current Democratic Party move (Democratic? - what a joke) opens the door for a return to seeing tanks on the streets of Bangkok yet again.

I dont suppose it will be long.

personally i dont care if it stops that evil megalomaniac turning Thailand into his own personal serfdom. Whichever way its going to get really nasty here. IF Taksin is allowed back then it will probably be war if not it will probably be war. All PTP had to do was not involve Taksin but no and yes people of North want him and people of south dont. Cant see how it is ever going to get sorted until Taksin himself does decent thing and steps aside totally. MAybe just split country into 2 kingdoms and let north have their saviour and Bangkok and south can get on with being free of that maniac.

All they had to do was not be so dam_n obvious about thaksins involvement. The party slogan and all of his interviews make it obvious he was involved. He KNEW better but could not help himself. He had to be in the spotlight.

[Jingthing]

Why didn't the Dems contest the validity of PT or it's members before the election? It just makes the Dems look like little cry babies by running home to mummy after they don't get their way.

Could open a can of worms by finding out that both parties acted illegally, end up with the military in charge. Ahhh welcome Prime Minister General...

It's a fair question, but it's going to take months for this to go through the courts anyway, so it wouldn't have stopped the election to proceed as it did. That I think weakens your point. I also think it was rather obvious that PTP was doing this, I mean in most countries the idea of a criminal fugitive pulling the strings of a proxy candidate would raise eyebrows to put it mildly, but the voters didn't seem to care. But strictly legally they have every right to pursue this case. Edited July 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[DumFarang]

It was only a question of time before Abhisit the "gentleman" cries foul and rely on the judicial system to change a defeat into??

Don't know what Abhisit has got to do with this. He probably wouldn't touch the PM's job again with a barge pole.

Nice username, though.

Abhisit is the "brain" of the Democrats like Thaksin for the PTP and both are pulling the strings in the back. When the Democrats can form the government again he will be their PM no doubt about this.

Thanks for the compliment

Wow - Abhisit has gone from the "puppet" to the "puppet-master"???? Amazing transformation since he quit as party leader.

It was just a simple matter of switching around a few knots.

[rubl]

NATIONAL

Pheu Thai ready to defend Yingluck's cooking show

By The Nation

Published on July 8, 2011

The Pheu Thai Party on Friday played down the probe into alleged vote-buying involving Designate Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, arguing the campaign activity in question could not be construed as a hand-out.

"There was no distribution of free food nor any attempts to buy votes as alleged," Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said.

The Election Commission has launched the investigation into a complaint that in a campaign demonstration in Nakhon Ratchasima, Yingluck cooked and handed out a local noodle dish, known as Mee Korat. Under the campaign rules, the hand-out of food or material gift is classified as vote-buying.

Prompong insisted Yingluck and her campaign workers did not distritute the fried noodle. The cooking was just a normal campaign activity to attract the crowds, he said.

-- The Nation 2011-07-08

[hands22]

What a bunch of sore losers! The Democrates are just blindly throwing the kitchen sink and all.... I have lost whatever small respect I have for them. They should just sit at a corner and sulk for all I care.