Yingluck's First Challenge Is Her Own Credibility; Thai Talk

[Bkkorupcountry]

But the great majority of rural dwelling Thais are still no further forward. They have voted out the corrupt amart supporting Democrat government... only to replace it with the corrupt, fugitive supporting PTP government.

Wouldn't it be nice if the ordinary Thais had an honest political leader to take them forward to a more honest, less corrupt government? OK, now you're all asking what I'm smoking, and I'm hiding from the Drug Squad....

But the Thai people have chosen who they want to lead them. They clearly think at this point that it will be better for them. It remains to be seen whether they will be satisfied or not. A recent poll indicates that most dont worry about corruption. Maybe competence and reconcilliation are higher on people's wishlists.

I'll say it before someone else does - it's only less than 50% of the Thai people that have chosen who they want to lead them

What you said is very valid. I believe that most don't worry about corruption as most believe that it's not going to go away in their lifetimes and it is only human nature that you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. It's a necessarily evil that they live with and most accept it. The same applies to a lot of other SEA countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia, Phillipines, Vietnam, Cambodia etc. They believe their lot in life will not necessarily improve with the eradication of corruption. A lot of posters here will disagree (Western standards after all) but we are talking about the relatively uneducated and naive rural folk who are more concerned about eking out a living. In their minds, PT will do more than the other parties to improve their standards of living and at the end of the day, that's all that counts for the majority of them.

It is relatively easy for PT to stay in power for a long time. Ensure that a certain amount of wealth is being redistributed to the North / North East and constantly champion this. Lots of PR, lots of coverage, give the occasional motorbike to a deserving villager, throw some cash around...... PT already has it's power base in these areas and it is so deeply entrenched that it will take a Herculean effort from any other party to dislodge them. At the same time, PT needs to start winning over some of the more marginal constituencies and if they do this right, they WILL get the MAJORITY of both votes and seats the next time round.

I'm not saying whether this is good for the country or not but just political reality.

I think you sum up the political reality well. The people who have to learn it are the Democrats who being the largest opposition party must offer the country a viable alternative to the PTP, or Thailand will develop into a one party state for reasons you point out. I doubt though they will learn the lessons or be able to make the changes needed however, and that will be a huge diservice to the country. It may be a long long time before the country has a viable alternative.

I have not been here long enough to know the history of the Dems or their manifesto but from reading the threads here, it seems that they are old money and establishment. If so, I tend to agree with you that they might never learn the lessons for the simple reason that they can't - it's completely alien to their mindset and possibly even upbringing. Thailand's class system (of hi-so and lo-so) effectively means that there can never be real integration of society.

K Abhisit is charismatic, educated and a PM that a citizen can be proud of. He should consider either reforming the party (pretty much as what Tony Blair did with New Labour) or starting his own with a clear view towards integrating the poor rural folk with the Bkk elite, without the current baggage of the Dems. Being only in his early 40's, he afford to give himself 10 years to establish such a party that will strive equally for the betterment of all.

[jayboy]

The article misses the point that while stressing Yingluck is widely seen as Thaksin's nominee, Abhisit was also widely seen as the nominee of the army/bureaucracy. People are used to having front PMs

Apisit has been an MP since he was 27, Yingluk, one week.

Actually that's irrelevant,and not only for the generally very poor reputation of Thai MPs in terms of integrity and competence.

Abhisit's advantages are those of a first class education and the intellect which made that possible, and of course his personal honesty and integrity in matters of financial rectitude (his integrity is suspect in other ways).The obvious drawback is that he presided over unexplained deaths of protestors on the streets of Bangkok and denied any kind of accountability for himself and the military which backed him. In many countries this would have meant his consignment to political oblivion (it might here too but too early to say).Added to that is his incompetence as a politician, his mean spirited and shoddy election campaign emphasizing Thailand's divisions rather than trying to reconcile and his inability to strike any real connection beyond the myopic Sino Thai middle class.

This thread is about Yingluk, not Apisit but I would suggest in many countries the red shirts would not have been able to take over the city centre,and if they had tried the death toll would have been far higher.

Apisit is to be commended for his restraint.

I have some sympathy for your views here, but Abhisit has done himself no favours by his unwillingness (possibly inability) to press the military for cooperation with the inquiry.These things cannot be airbrushed away.

Incidentally militant protest groups can and do take over city centres.That isn't a carte blanche for the authorities to mow down civilians.Ask Mubarik.

[rixalex]

I have not been here long enough to know the history of the Dems or their manifesto but from reading the threads here, it seems that they are old money and establishment. If so, I tend to agree with you that they might never learn the lessons for the simple reason that they can't - it's completely alien to their mindset and possibly even upbringing. Thailand's class system (of hi-so and lo-so) effectively means that there can never be real integration of society.

K Abhisit is charismatic, educated and a PM that a citizen can be proud of. He should consider either reforming the party (pretty much as what Tony Blair did with New Labour) or starting his own with a clear view towards integrating the poor rural folk with the Bkk elite, without the current baggage of the Dems. Being only in his early 40's, he afford to give himself 10 years to establish such a party that will strive equally for the betterment of all.

Two well reasoned posts back to back. You are on a roll!

I think though with regards Abhisit - although i don't believe him to be as poisoned as some people like hammered seems to think he is - i do think he does need some time away from it all.

[jonclark]

My own view is that Yingluck in't too bothered about her credibility being questioned, as I doubt she expects to be around for more than a year or soon, (hence the reason for most politicians visiting Taksin). Think about it Taksin wants to be back for December (which means) that in the intrim his crimes have to be absolved as has already be intimated using the term 'reconciliation' . So he 'the good man' returns, and they [PTP / Yingluck / Taksin ]spend the next six month warming up the public to the possibility of him becoming PM, with 'press releases, and visit to parliment etc.' using his PR machine and the state media to put a positive spin on the whole think, Yingluck steps down as PM (stating for example she wants to spend more time with her son), taksin steps up and tours issan to show his popularity.

If i was Taksin - That's how i'd play it. - The only wildcard is the army, but if they were to have a coup, Thailand would be slated internationally and on the back of another election victory it would be hugely unpopular and likely bloody. I think they'd not intervene.

The only thing that would upset this apple cart is a huge and prolonged anti PTP / Taksin demonstration from a broad cross section of society.

Edited August 4, 2011 by jonclark

[Bkkorupcountry]

I have not been here long enough to know the history of the Dems or their manifesto but from reading the threads here, it seems that they are old money and establishment. If so, I tend to agree with you that they might never learn the lessons for the simple reason that they can't - it's completely alien to their mindset and possibly even upbringing. Thailand's class system (of hi-so and lo-so) effectively means that there can never be real integration of society.

K Abhisit is charismatic, educated and a PM that a citizen can be proud of. He should consider either reforming the party (pretty much as what Tony Blair did with New Labour) or starting his own with a clear view towards integrating the poor rural folk with the Bkk elite, without the current baggage of the Dems. Being only in his early 40's, he afford to give himself 10 years to establish such a party that will strive equally for the betterment of all.

Two well reasoned posts back to back. You are on a roll!

I think though with regards Abhisit - although i don't believe him to be as poisoned as some people like hammered seems to think he is - i do think he does need some time away from it all.

Thanks . I'll not try for a third

[OzMick]

Incidentally militant protest groups can and do take over city centres.That isn't a carte blanche for the authorities to mow down civilians.Ask Mubarik.

If you wish to compare Mubarak's administration with one in Thailand, you would be better off going back 5 or 6 years; the comparison with the Thaksin government would be much more accurate. Personal enrichment, positions stacked with family members, democratic rights being suppressed, refusal to leave office, tax avoidance, transfer of public assets, conflicts of interest, etc were all features of both regimes.

BTW the Egyptian protesters might also be a little miffed at being equated to the murderous red-shirt rabble. The speeches they were giving were full of hope for a better future, not hate, kill, burn. Their desire was to evict a dictator, not re-install a would-be.

[ianf]

Amazing the Thais actually elected her. I guess it was just a vote for Thaksin and against the dems, no matter who the PM was.

It was a vote against amart cheats who cheated their way into power by disbanding parties, coming up with trumped up charges which were often politically motivated, abusing the LM laws to suit themselves, killing demonstrators, abusing freedom of speech by banning thousands of websites. All in all a pretty nasty bunch of actions by some self centered, nasty people. Fortunately the Thai people saw through all of it and voted to put an end to the Abhisit Government nightmare. I'm beginning to believe in Karma :jap:.

Incorrect. There has been a sustained campaign by Thaksin as the Thai wing of a global movement. He has been well briefed and supported by people who are far smarter than he. This Campaign has been a long time in the making and it had a number of elements:

1. Training in the red villages about 'democracy' (or at least their version of it)

2. Brainwashing to a degree not seen since the days of the brown shirts in Germany

3. An attack on the capital, quite openly telling people to burn, come armed with bottles and petrol and so on

4. Turning the events of April 2010 against the ruling Government with a series of hideous lies and propaganda masterminded by Thaksin's cronies such as Robert Amsterdam

5. Understanding the nature of gaining allies amongst the masses through appealing to base emotions rather than through genuine policies

6. Bribing the masses with a series of offers such as free PCs and 300 baht a day

7. Controlling the whole series of events from Dubai as an experiment in controlling a country - a lesson learnt that is being replicated in some Arab countries and increasingly elsewhere.

To me the whole thing is so transparent that it baffles me how many of our regular posters can't actually see what's going on here. And (mark my words) this is only the beginning ...... there's a long way to go yet.

Poor Abhisit, as good as he is, had no chance against this form of terrorism.

[Crushdepth]

Let's hope the new government doesn't adopt the Syrian approach to crowd control this time.

[Skywalker69]

Incidentally militant protest groups can and do take over city centres.That isn't a carte blanche for the authorities to mow down civilians.Ask Mubarik.

If you wish to compare Mubarak's administration with one in Thailand, you would be better off going back 5 or 6 years; the comparison with the Thaksin government would be much more accurate. Personal enrichment, positions stacked with family members, democratic rights being suppressed, refusal to leave office, tax avoidance, transfer of public assets, conflicts of interest, etc were all features of both regimes.

BTW the Egyptian protesters might also be a little miffed at being equated to the murderous red-shirt rabble. The speeches they were giving were full of hope for a better future, not hate, kill, burn. Their desire was to evict a dictator, not re-install a would-be.

Comment of the day, spot on. Thanks

[thaikahuna]

"But, perhaps for the sake of national harmony and out of a sense of Thai politeness, nobody has really taken her to task over that."

Perhaps if they did they might see the pack of liars and thieves they elected....not to mention that she is really nothing more than Thaksin's "YES" woman.

[lovetotravel]

Just listening to TAN. They say Thaksin's wife and sister are selecting the cabinet members. And that Yingluck is in the dark as to what is happening.

Some guy was selected to be a cabinet member, but declined as he said he could not come to an agreement with Thaksin. He didn't mention Yingluck.

What a mess. How embarrassing for Thailand.

[jayboy]

Incidentally militant protest groups can and do take over city centres.That isn't a carte blanche for the authorities to mow down civilians.Ask Mubarik.

If you wish to compare Mubarak's administration with one in Thailand, you would be better off going back 5 or 6 years; the comparison with the Thaksin government would be much more accurate. Personal enrichment, positions stacked with family members, democratic rights being suppressed, refusal to leave office, tax avoidance, transfer of public assets, conflicts of interest, etc were all features of both regimes.

BTW the Egyptian protesters might also be a little miffed at being equated to the murderous red-shirt rabble. The speeches they were giving were full of hope for a better future, not hate, kill, burn. Their desire was to evict a dictator, not re-install a would-be.

Believe me the reactionaries under Mubarak in Cairo were certainly referring to the demonstrators as a murderous rabble.The fact that you use the same phraseology about the redshirts simply pinpoints your prejudices.But I agree the two regimes and circumstances are very different.The point I was making was simply that a regime cannot mow down civilians and expect there to be no comeback.The outcome of such behaviour may be different, a blow to reputation in the case of Abhisit, complete disaster in the case of Mubarak.

[Sateev]

Amazing the Thais actually elected her. I guess it was just a vote for Thaksin and against the dems, no matter who the PM was.

It was a vote against amart cheats who cheated their way into power by disbanding parties, coming up with trumped up charges which were often politically motivated, abusing the LM laws to suit themselves, killing demonstrators, abusing freedom of speech by banning thousands of websites. All in all a pretty nasty bunch of actions by some self centered, nasty people. Fortunately the Thai people saw through all of it and voted to put an end to the Abhisit Government nightmare. I'm beginning to believe in Karma :jap:.

No matter your politics, your avatar is SUPERB (and I've been there).

[rixalex]

The point I was making was simply that a regime cannot mow down civilians and expect there to be no comeback.

The point i would make is that "civilians" can not take over a city centre for weeks, arm themselves with guns, bombs, rocket launchers and molotov cocktails, then proceed to burn buildings and attack soldiers, and expect there to be no comeback.

[davidkia]

Amazing the Thais actually elected her. I guess it was just a vote for Thaksin and against the dems, no matter who the PM was.

It was a vote against amart cheats who cheated their way into power by disbanding parties, coming up with trumped up charges which were often politically motivated, abusing the LM laws to suit themselves, killing demonstrators, abusing freedom of speech by banning thousands of websites. All in all a pretty nasty bunch of actions by some self centered, nasty people. Fortunately the Thai people saw through all of it and voted to put an end to the Abhisit Government nightmare. I'm beginning to believe in Karma :jap:.

you are the first person that i see talking sence , vary good hope there are more like you that can give change a chance after a teem that kept themselves in power bye using any method they couldm thanks again!

[OzMick]

Incidentally militant protest groups can and do take over city centres.That isn't a carte blanche for the authorities to mow down civilians.Ask Mubarik.

If you wish to compare Mubarak's administration with one in Thailand, you would be better off going back 5 or 6 years; the comparison with the Thaksin government would be much more accurate. Personal enrichment, positions stacked with family members, democratic rights being suppressed, refusal to leave office, tax avoidance, transfer of public assets, conflicts of interest, etc were all features of both regimes.

BTW the Egyptian protesters might also be a little miffed at being equated to the murderous red-shirt rabble. The speeches they were giving were full of hope for a better future, not hate, kill, burn. Their desire was to evict a dictator, not re-install a would-be.

Believe me the reactionaries under Mubarak in Cairo were certainly referring to the demonstrators as a murderous rabble.The fact that you use the same phraseology about the redshirts simply pinpoints your prejudices.But I agree the two regimes and circumstances are very different.The point I was making was simply that a regime cannot mow down civilians and expect there to be no comeback.The outcome of such behaviour may be different, a blow to reputation in the case of Abhisit, complete disaster in the case of Mubarak.

the only blow to Abhisit's reputation has been in Isaan where people are led to believe that the red-shirts did nothing wrong. IMHO there is not a world leader who doesn't believe that he and his administration acted with the utmost restraint.

Your analogy also falls down on the nature of the protests, the numbers participating (without payment), and most importantly THE NUMBER KILLED. At 9-10 times as many, "mowed down" may be appropriate in Egypt; it is not for what occurred in Bangkok.

The number killed in Bangkok would have been far higher if the fuel tank farm RPG attack had succeeded, people who were remote from and had little to do with the protest. A red-shirt has confessed to that and other crimes, and for that only they qualify as murderous rabble to me. But perhaps I'm just prejudiced.

[steveromagnino]

[

The point I was making was simply that a regime cannot mow down civilians and expect there to be no comeback.The outcome of such behaviour may be different, a blow to reputation in the case of Abhisit, complete disaster in the case of Mubarak.

I do agree, although here in Thailand, the realities of the war on drugs with numerous unrelated parties gunned down; the clampdown in Krue Sae Mosque and the bloody clampdown on the PAD demonstration on the 7th October, the UDD violence of 2009, have lead to exactly how many arrests and how much conclusion?

I don't dispute there should be consequences,and consequences become more likely with a freer 4th estate (for which the internet now plays an increasing role); however it is not the 'Thai way' for 'phoo yai' to suffer any consequence, I still see various convicted individuals wandering around town from time to time, as do most connected Thais; the law only applies to those poor enough to not have a few donut boxes of cash around.

If anything, these cases and the Blue Diamond type cases show that in fact for connected cases, the law and comebacks are for comedians....not something for the almighty powerful to worry about.

[johnno2]

yingluck doesn't have any credibility??? gosh, i'm shocked. after 3 days as a politician, i thought she'd have heaps of it

[lovetotravel]

The point I was making was simply that a regime cannot mow down civilians and expect there to be no comeback.

The point i would make is that "civilians" can not take over a city centre for weeks, arm themselves with guns, bombs, rocket launchers and molotov cocktails, then proceed to burn buildings and attack soldiers, and expect there to be no comeback.

Yeah, kinda hard to compare Egypt with Thailand. In Egypt, the protesters threw rocks. Here, it was M79 grenades.

[jayboy]

The point I was making was simply that a regime cannot mow down civilians and expect there to be no comeback.

The point i would make is that "civilians" can not take over a city centre for weeks, arm themselves with guns, bombs, rocket launchers and molotov cocktails, then proceed to burn buildings and attack soldiers, and expect there to be no comeback.

Yeah, kinda hard to compare Egypt with Thailand. In Egypt, the protesters threw rocks. Here, it was M79 grenades.

The more obvious difference, ie other than what protestors were or were not chucking, is that in Egypt Mubarak was universally detested and could never have won a fair and transparent election.Whereas in Thailand the party hugely influenced by Thaksin won an easy popular victory at the polls, unanimously acknowledged to have been fair and transparent.

[jayboy]

[

The point I was making was simply that a regime cannot mow down civilians and expect there to be no comeback.The outcome of such behaviour may be different, a blow to reputation in the case of Abhisit, complete disaster in the case of Mubarak.

I do agree, although here in Thailand, the realities of the war on drugs with numerous unrelated parties gunned down; the clampdown in Krue Sae Mosque and the bloody clampdown on the PAD demonstration on the 7th October, the UDD violence of 2009, have lead to exactly how many arrests and how much conclusion?

I don't dispute there should be consequences,and consequences become more likely with a freer 4th estate (for which the internet now plays an increasing role); however it is not the 'Thai way' for 'phoo yai' to suffer any consequence, I still see various convicted individuals wandering around town from time to time, as do most connected Thais; the law only applies to those poor enough to not have a few donut boxes of cash around.

If anything, these cases and the Blue Diamond type cases show that in fact for connected cases, the law and comebacks are for comedians....not something for the almighty powerful to worry about.

Let's hope this changes, though I fear it won't anytime soon.I used to see Suchinda (I know he was never convicted) at one of my clubs in Bangkok, and it turned the stomach to see how much fawning attention he received.

Of course Thaksin received the full treatment because we know he is hated by the establishment, and we know from Wikileaks that there was a desperate wish to pin any charge that might stick on him.

Although you are obviously someone who knows what he's talking about, I have to admit I suppressed a snigger at your reference to the bloody clampdown on the PAD demonstration (come off it mate).The rest of your examples are relevant, and your point well made.

[Crushdepth]

[

The point I was making was simply that a regime cannot mow down civilians and expect there to be no comeback.The outcome of such behaviour may be different, a blow to reputation in the case of Abhisit, complete disaster in the case of Mubarak.

I do agree, although here in Thailand, the realities of the war on drugs with numerous unrelated parties gunned down; the clampdown in Krue Sae Mosque and the bloody clampdown on the PAD demonstration on the 7th October, the UDD violence of 2009, have lead to exactly how many arrests and how much conclusion?

I don't dispute there should be consequences,and consequences become more likely with a freer 4th estate (for which the internet now plays an increasing role); however it is not the 'Thai way' for 'phoo yai' to suffer any consequence, I still see various convicted individuals wandering around town from time to time, as do most connected Thais; the law only applies to those poor enough to not have a few donut boxes of cash around.

If anything, these cases and the Blue Diamond type cases show that in fact for connected cases, the law and comebacks are for comedians....not something for the almighty powerful to worry about.

Let's hope this changes, though I fear it won't anytime soon.I used to see Suchinda (I know he was never convicted) at one of my clubs in Bangkok, and it turned the stomach to see how much fawning attention he received.

Of course Thaksin received the full treatment because we know he is hated by the establishment, and we know from Wikileaks that there was a desperate wish to pin any charge that might stick on him.

Although you are obviously someone who knows what he's talking about, I have to admit I suppressed a snigger at your reference to the bloody clampdown on the PAD demonstration (come off it mate).The rest of your examples are relevant, and your point well made.

Involuntary amputations inflicted by security forces don't count as bloody? Maybe you should review that one a bit further, there is some lovely sensitive-new-age video of the gloves-off treatment they received. If you can be bothered to look.

If Sondhi's comments are to be believed (you decide), one of the motivations for the coup was refusing orders for a crackdown that would have lead to bloodshed.

[TAWP]

Just ignore Jayboys snicker about the bloody crackdown on the PAD demonstrations. He don't mind if any 'yellows' die. Just remember his disregard for human life the next time he complains about other posters - it is all about scoring points.

[Colin Yai]

Amazing the Thais actually elected her. I guess it was just a vote for Thaksin and against the dems, no matter who the PM was.

It was a vote against amart cheats who cheated their way into power by disbanding parties, coming up with trumped up charges which were often politically motivated, abusing the LM laws to suit themselves, killing demonstrators, abusing freedom of speech by banning thousands of websites. All in all a pretty nasty bunch of actions by some self centered, nasty people. Fortunately the Thai people saw through all of it and voted to put an end to the Abhisit Government nightmare. I'm beginning to believe in Karma :jap:.

To bad you weren't here to see the action and had to learn about it from some of the terrorists.

That being said it is indeed important that she establishes her credibility. To do this she will have to be honest.

I don't think that statements like this are really based in honesty

Quote

"We are also being treated to a series of reports that Pheu Thai MPs have been shuttling between Bangkok and Dubai or Brunei to see Thaksin. Yingluck says they were purely social gatherings. Banharn Silpa-archa, the de facto leader of Chat Thai Pattana, a party in the coalition, says he went to Brunei recently to look at some wild animals for his personal zoo. His meeting with Thaksin was portrayed as an incidental event. Everybody else, of course, knew what he was up to."

I wonder if Thaksin and Banharn Silpa-archa met while looking at the same wild animals? Maybe Thaksin was being honest when he said he was no longer in politics and is looking for a new way to spend his money. A zoo in Dubai might work.

Now how would she know what they were doing if she wasn't there?

She is going to be the new PM there is no reason to deny the truth. It is not like if Thaksin was handing out posts she had to make them happen.

Why does she not just come out and say it is my decision and I don't care what my brother promises any one. If they are the most qualified person in my opinion they will have the job if they are not the most qualified they won't have the job.

Now a statement like that would in my opinion go along way to prove her credibility.

An Entertaining post HD ,The problem here is whether she is telling the truth or not about her being the "captain of the ship" few will really believe her ,therefore IMHO her credibility rating as PM is very questionable indeed at this moment in time ,what she has to do to convince the disbelieving masses that she is not just dancing to her brothers music is a question I cannot answer.

[cdnvic]

Removed a post and a poster. Criticism of Thailand and Thais is one thing, but calling them animals is insulting the families of members and will get you silenced quickly.

[473geo]

Well given the in depth experience that Thaksin has acquired in the inner circle of Thai politics, I think if I was a total newcomer I might well seek his advice, then I would also seek the advice of others and make an informed decision. Rest assured to succeed in Thai politics you need to have the right type of people in supporting roles, Thaksin will know who carries the correct attributes........he has been there

So is it not possible that showing the intelligence to consult with her politcally experienced brother, could be seen as providing credibility, rather than losing it.........just a thought....

Edited August 4, 2011 by 473geo

[samurai]

But the great majority of rural dwelling Thais are still no further forward. They have voted out the corrupt amart supporting Democrat government... only to replace it with the corrupt, fugitive supporting PTP government.

Wouldn't it be nice if the ordinary Thais had an honest political leader to take them forward to a more honest, less corrupt government? OK, now you're all asking what I'm smoking, and I'm hiding from the Drug Squad....

That is what many of us want, and why we have an clear dislike for PTP with its pretend 'care'.

But alas, we are branded 'anti-poor' or 'yellow' for this - which frankly doesn't make sense.

Why not simply accept that what the people voted for? To demand anything else doesn't smell very democratic.

[samurai]

Incidentally militant protest groups can and do take over city centres.That isn't a carte blanche for the authorities to mow down civilians.Ask Mubarik.

If you wish to compare Mubarak's administration with one in Thailand, you would be better off going back 5 or 6 years; the comparison with the Thaksin government would be much more accurate. Personal enrichment, positions stacked with family members, democratic rights being suppressed, refusal to leave office, tax avoidance, transfer of public assets, conflicts of interest, etc were all features of both regimes.

BTW the Egyptian protesters might also be a little miffed at being equated to the murderous red-shirt rabble. The speeches they were giving were full of hope for a better future, not hate, kill, burn. Their desire was to evict a dictator, not re-install a would-be.

They wanted to vote, they wanted an election. Now they got one, they won. Ex-PM Abhisit didn't had a chance in a free election.

Thats all you need to know.

[jayboy]

Just ignore Jayboys snicker about the bloody crackdown on the PAD demonstrations. He don't mind if any 'yellows' die. Just remember his disregard for human life the next time he complains about other posters - it is all about scoring points.

Of course I regret any loss of human life.But to inflate the PAD confrontation to a bloody crackdown by the authorities is absurd.There was gross incompetence I agree on the part of the security forces, notably in the use of tear gas.But to suggest this was brutal repression is simply propaganda.PAD was looking for martyrs.That's all I have to say on this subject.

[Siripon]

Of course I regret any loss of human life.But to inflate the PAD confrontation to a bloody crackdown by the authorities is absurd.There was gross incompetence I agree on the part of the security forces, notably in the use of tear gas.But to suggest this was brutal repression is simply propaganda.PAD was looking for martyrs.That's all I have to say on this subject.

And the red shirts were exactly the same- they needed martyrs.