digibum Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Gotta disagree with those who think these girls don't go into it willingly. Granted, not all, as some are forced, but I also know more than a few Uni students who "freelance" on the weekends for extra spending cash for new phones, etc, and to supplement what they get from their parents. I personally know one who is studying to become a lawyer. 21 years old and drop dead gorgeous. She has an arrangement with 2 separate men, both farang. One she meets for an hour or so on Saturday, the other for an hour or so on Sunday. 8,000 a month from each of them, and she sees absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. Oh, and no, I'm not one of them. I know her because I help her with her English, which is actually very good, and getting better. Personally, if this is what they want to do, who am I to judge them? On the other hand, there are those who are sold by their parents, or forced into it through economic hardship, and that I do have a problem with. IMHO I can't help but think that you have got this the wrong way round. Having sex on account of economic hardship is through necessity in having to find the money for food and clothes to live and doing it to be able to afford possessions such as mobiles is purely materialism and not a justified reason!!!! Parents selling their children to the sex trade is a completely different issue. I don't think you will find much in the way of this in Walking Street as they usually do it willingly (out of necessity in their eyes) to send money home to their families to support them!! Yes, but it's really on how you define, "necessity." The vast, vast majority of the girls working the prostitution game had multiple job opportunities available to them and they simply chose prostitution because it was easy and paid big money. I'm not necessarily saying that Thai girls view the prostitution scene as being without tradeoffs. They know the stigma in Thai society. They know the risks (HIV, getting beat up, killed, etc). They know all of this and they still figure it's easier than working 12 hours a day, six days a week, in a normal job and the money is considerably better. Necessity is finding enough money to pay for food and clothes for the family. Of course there will be some that view prostitution as a means of getting easy money (whilst having a good time behind the bar) - but as you say, there are inherent dangers of picking up an STD, with HIV and AIDS possible death sentences. I don't think that you are right when you say a majority of them have multiple job opportunities available to them as if they live in a Northern village in the wilderness then other than farming and opening up a small shop outside the house they are going to find it difficult to get decent employment. Let's say they went to Bangkok to look for a job in a multi-national company - what will be the response when they ask for their qualifications and place of origin??? Coming from the North with a sub-standard education is not going to get them very far is it!!! I assume you agree with me on the ethics of someone prostituting themselves for material gain is less acceptable. It's akin to a Thai man having a wife and a junior wife whereby he actually pays them for the priviledge of having sex only for 1 hour a week. If she only does it with these two farangs then that will be a lot safer than being a bar girl, unless of course, one or both put themselves about with other women (bar girls) and have unprotected sex with them - then she is in the same game as those bar girls!! Actually, they do have many opportunities. I've always asked, "Why are only hot girls forced into prostitution?" Why do the fat and ugly (or both) seem to be able to find jobs working in factories, in shops, etc, etc? And the answer is, because only beautiful girls have the option. Given that it's an option, it is by definition a choice and not something they're forced into unless one is suggesting that they're being herded up and sold into slavery. The point I was really getting at though is that in terms of jobs that pay 7,000 - 10,000 baht per month that anybody can do, there are tons of them all over Thailand. Now, if that's not enough to cover their bills then they're simply living beyond their means. Tens of millions of women get by on that amount in Thailand. If the problem was that there were no jobs I could understand how women might feel forced into it but given that there are 3 security guards posted 24/7 outside my apartment building who have no other duty other than to move a gate when cars pull up it would seem that there are more jobs available than there are people wanting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKK Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If the problem was that there were no jobs I could understand how women might feel forced into it but given that there are 3 security guards posted 24/7 outside my apartment building who have no other duty other than to move a gate when cars pull up it would seem that there are more jobs available than there are people wanting them. Wait and see what happens if the proposed 300baht/day minimum comes into play. Wage bills will soar and I think the "more jobs available than there are people wanting them." may reverse. Over hiring may no longer be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivas Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Digibum, You make a very valid point that there are millons getting by on 7-10,000 a month. You have to live within your means and I believe Thais often have a real job understanding this. My own wife cannot comprehend the word "budget" however I try to explain it-Its the "our children" must have it scenario. Edited August 22, 2011 by Chivas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 ".......... the stigma in Thai society. " Not so much, and a lot less when you work a long way from home. "............ the risks (HIV, getting beat up, killed, etc) If you were to add robbed of their wages, the risks are much more prevalent in a village marriage than in the farang sex scene. "........ working 12 hours a day, six days a week, in a normal job" A bit over the top, 6x10 or 5x12 more common. Bar girls often work longer hours. The money CAN be considerably better, but it's variable. Some of my bar-girl will borrow a thou or 2 to send home at the end of a bad month, always pay it back asap (in cash) with a Chang for interest. Stigma: Agreed. Travel up to Isaan during Songkran or other holidays when the girls return home and it's soooooooooo obvious who the bar girls are. They dress in standard bar girl fashion back home complete with tattoos. Unfortunately, much in the same way that they keep doing surveys that find that a majority of Thais don't mind corruption as long as they get some benefit, I'm sure most parents pretend not to notice their daughter tarted up like a whore as long as there's a new car or house in it for them. But amongst other Thais, not so much. I've seen the most loud and surly bar girls shrink to about 1 inch tall when confronted by someone obviously over their class level. Or as someone once said to me, "Siam Paragon is like kryptonite for bar girls. They know every other Thai there will be looking at them as a bar girl." Risks: Very true. Working Hours: Maybe for some office jobs but the gals who work at my local 7-11 work 12 hours a day 6 days a week. I know many women who work similar schedules at shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If the problem was that there were no jobs I could understand how women might feel forced into it but given that there are 3 security guards posted 24/7 outside my apartment building who have no other duty other than to move a gate when cars pull up it would seem that there are more jobs available than there are people wanting them. Wait and see what happens if the proposed 300baht/day minimum comes into play. Wage bills will soar and I think the "more jobs available than there are people wanting them." may reverse. Over hiring may no longer be viable. Very, very true. It also means that employers who can only hire 1 security guard instead of 3 will likely be more picky so many people will be forced back to Isaan where they don't have rent or other overhead staying in the family home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKK Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If the problem was that there were no jobs I could understand how women might feel forced into it but given that there are 3 security guards posted 24/7 outside my apartment building who have no other duty other than to move a gate when cars pull up it would seem that there are more jobs available than there are people wanting them. Wait and see what happens if the proposed 300baht/day minimum comes into play. Wage bills will soar and I think the "more jobs available than there are people wanting them." may reverse. Over hiring may no longer be viable. Very, very true. It also means that employers who can only hire 1 security guard instead of 3 will likely be more picky so many people will be forced back to Isaan where they don't have rent or other overhead staying in the family home. Or enter the sex industry....or become criminals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco911 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 What will they think of next possibly children's play grounds on walking street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Digibum, You make a very valid point that there are millons getting by on 7-10,000 a month. You have to live within your means and I believe Thais often have a real job understanding this. My own wife cannot comprehend the word "budget" however I try to explain it-Its the "our children" must have it scenario. My wife understands "budget" but only when it's forced on her :-) While what you're commenting on is true my point was less about Thai budgeting habits and more about the fact that many Thais just dig themselves into holes they can never get out of. Some of these girls get knocked up at 15 or 16 years old and have to leave the kid(s) with their parents while they go to Bangkok looking for work. That's hard enough, to take care of yourself and a small child with little or no education but if your parents are boozers or gamblers and you've got a brother with a drug habit, etc, etc it's impossible. While they might feel like they're being forced into prostitution what they should do is just tell their families, "No!" It's not poverty that's driving a girl like that into the business. It's that she's got financial needs that exceed what she could make even if she was a university grad with a good job. I mean, if you're an uneducated farmer girl sent to the big city and need to pull down 20,000 - 30,000 baht per month just to keep all of the relatives happy that's an unsustainable situation. It would be far better for the family to get it's act together than to look the other way while their daughter starts turning tricks to meet these unrealistic financial expectations. Seriously, could you imagine if your parents sent you out right after high school and you had to pull down $150,000 a year just to cover the bills? That's how absurd some of these situations are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dag Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just curious as to how you can differentiate between shoppers or "sexpats"? Do they get given tags at the airport or is there a uniform? Shoopers often still have the tags hanging at the back of their necks....the sex tourists just look tired and drained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just curious as to how you can differentiate between shoppers or "sexpats"? Do they get given tags at the airport or is there a uniform? Shoopers often still have the tags hanging at the back of their necks....the sex tourists just look tired and drained. How to tell a sexpat. 1. They and their girlfriend each have more tattoos than teeth. 2. They keep trying to barfine the produce girl at Foodland. 3. When asked how much the taxi costs to the airport they respond, “ less than one short time.” 4. They aren't commercial fisherman but smell like they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airconsult Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I want a job with Thaia visa forum. I can write headlines that makes people bite. Non immigrant visa required to drink beer. Bar to close at Christmas for 3 days. Thailand to become sex free. Etc Etc Etc Cheers Fishface, made my day Excellent attempt Fishface but if I may point out the missing element that'll really cause some Pavlovian reactions and possible strokes - attributing quotes to Thaksin, Yingluk or the government in connection with TVF. "Thaksin Shinawatra tweeted that all TVF posters who don't like him couldn't get laid for free in a mortuary and have wives with faces that look as if it caught fire and somebody put it out with a shovel" " Yingluk Shinawatra on TVF - " Take the piss all you like but I'm richer than any of you so who gives a flying f#ck what you think. Go and open another Chang and realise how worthless your existence is" " A Thai government spokesman recently said " Of course our main aim is to bring Thaksin back whitewashed and squeaky clean. Duh. His sister is the PM for sake. But all your keyboard bashing won't change things one iota. We make you report every 90 days where you live like some pikey criminal so obviously your position in the grand scheme of things is slightly above that of the fleas on a soi dogs arse. Dance monkeys dance!" You owe me a new keyboard yes - monkey-boy has proceeded to dance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globalhouse Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Great Vegas point as that's exactly what happen and the politicians haven't looked talked family values since. Here is a free tip for Thailand. In Las Vegas , Nevada, the city " leaders" decided they did not want the reputation for the city to be sin and gambling. They then tried to redo all publicity to push for family tourism. Revenues fell WAY off, they came to their senses, and the new promotion became" what goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas". Thailand can certainly do whatever it wants, but if it kills off the sex trade just be sure to have regular jobs for all the girls from Issan...... This kind of government social engineering is made all the more funny by the fact that 80 to 90 percent of the sex trade is for the benefit of and used by Thai men. But I suppose that segment will not be going away. On a side note, if they really do want family tourism, the government is going to have to do something about the endless scams. Those do not go well with families. Kids watching their dad get beaten up by jet ski thugs could have a detrimental effect on future families visiting...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If I was a Thai national I'd be sticking the middle finger up at all those who want to shut down our sex industry. Thailand is a free nation and not under the control of the USA, UK or any other western society. We shall do what we want when we want. If that includes letting our citizens perform sexual acts for money then so be it. After all judging by the millions, if you believe the figures, who come here for just that we can't be that wrong and seem to be providing a service that nobody else can. Anyway it is mostly the tight-arsed western social workers who've never had a <deleted> in their lives and are so kee-neow to come here and pay for some that spread these vile messages about Thailand being the sex capital of the world. To them I say "Get a Life" and "Get a <deleted>" Keep your nose outta my business...... I think you missed something in translation. It is not the U.S England or any other country that wants to clean up Thailands image. It is not the god botherer's nor the the politically correct or even the moral police who want to shed Thailand's image as "The sex capital of the world" It is Thailand who wants to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAffer Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just curious as to how you can differentiate between shoppers or "sexpats"? Do they get given tags at the airport or is there a uniform? For me, on the few flights to and from HK (which seems somehow to have become the topic here), it was pretty easy: Spoilt rich Thai b5tch is not sexpat... she is a shopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierr Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 A recent World Health Organisation (WHO) report has pegged the number of female prostitutes in the country at 2 lakh. can someone enlighten me? how much is 2 lakh.? thaisabai 200,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Why don't they try moving it all off the streets and put it behind closed doors where it won't be visible to people on the streets? Stop the girls dressed like cheap little %^^%$'s sitting out the front of the bars soliciting punters. This way in won't be in the face of normal tourists. The sex tourists can still come and go behind closed doors and do what ever it is they do. Maybe try passing a law forbidding fat old 70 something male sex tourists from sucking face with an 18 yr old thai girl in a public place. I do not mind public displays of affection but I have to draw a line somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKK Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If I was a Thai national I'd be sticking the middle finger up at all those who want to shut down our sex industry. Thailand is a free nation and not under the control of the USA, UK or any other western society. We shall do what we want when we want. If that includes letting our citizens perform sexual acts for money then so be it. After all judging by the millions, if you believe the figures, who come here for just that we can't be that wrong and seem to be providing a service that nobody else can. Anyway it is mostly the tight-arsed western social workers who've never had a <deleted> in their lives and are so kee-neow to come here and pay for some that spread these vile messages about Thailand being the sex capital of the world. To them I say "Get a Life" and "Get a <deleted>" Keep your nose outta my business...... I think you missed something in translation. It is not the U.S England or any other country that wants to clean up Thailands image. It is not the god botherer's nor the the politically correct or even the moral police who want to shed Thailand's image as "The sex capital of the world" It is Thailand who wants to do this. I didn't mean to infer that it is the USA, UK etc that is trying to clean up Thailand's image. Of course it is Thailand that is doing so in an attempt to regain face. It is these western nations who have named Thailand as "The sex capital of the world" not the Thais. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Yeah, you can't magically make the world not think of your entire country as a slut nation. You actually have to DO something about it. Singapore has plenty of sex workers in Geylang, and years ago did have a saucy reputation, but not now. Did this happen because they announced it was no longer a sex destination? Duh. The chances of Thailand actually doing the work and waiting the years to lose their rep in the next 100 years, pretty much nil. If I were them, I wouldn't bother, at least it's a marketing niche. Edited August 22, 2011 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It is not difficult to obeserve that the trend is changing, there are certainly much more couples around and many bars remain empty till the wee hours, while the "pick up" places like certain discos and "clubs" become the targeting hot spots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softgeorge Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Why don't they try moving it all off the streets and put it behind closed doors where it won't be visible to people on the streets? Stop the girls dressed like cheap little %^^%s sitting out the front of the bars soliciting punters. This way in won't be in the face of normal tourists. The sex tourists can still come and go behind closed doors and do what ever it is they do. Maybe try passing a law forbidding fat old 70 something male sex tourists from sucking face with an 18 yr old thai girl in a public place. I do not mind public displays of affection but I have to draw a line somewhere. The will never do that because that is like pulling down the front entrance to Disneyland or DreamWorld for the sex tourist. I have to agree tho the dirty old men groping and kissing young girls that could be thier great great grand daughters is rather disgusting and should be banned from public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnAllan Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I can only assume someone has been reading about the increase in longevity. Either that, or they are relying on memory impairment. The one might see the current younger age group - under thirty - live to actually experience this. The other, everyone forgetting just what it was that the Thais were going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnAllan Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If I was a Thai national I'd be sticking the middle finger up at all those who want to shut down our sex industry. Thailand is a free nation and not under the control of the USA, UK or any other western society. We shall do what we want when we want. If that includes letting our citizens perform sexual acts for money then so be it. After all judging by the millions, if you believe the figures, who come here for just that we can't be that wrong and seem to be providing a service that nobody else can. Anyway it is mostly the tight-arsed western social workers who've never had a <deleted> in their lives and are so kee-neow to come here and pay for some that spread these vile messages about Thailand being the sex capital of the world. To them I say "Get a Life" and "Get a <deleted>" Keep your nose outta my business...... I think you missed something in translation. It is not the U.S England or any other country that wants to clean up Thailands image. It is not the god botherer's nor the the politically correct or even the moral police who want to shed Thailand's image as "The sex capital of the world" It is Thailand who wants to do this. I didn't mean to infer that it is the USA, UK etc that is trying to clean up Thailand's image. Of course it is Thailand that is doing so in an attempt to regain face. It is these western nations who have named Thailand as "The sex capital of the world" not the Thais. Where could the west have got THAT idea . . .? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Why don't they try moving it all off the streets and put it behind closed doors where it won't be visible to people on the streets? Stop the girls dressed like cheap little %^^%$'s sitting out the front of the bars soliciting punters. This way in won't be in the face of normal tourists. The sex tourists can still come and go behind closed doors and do what ever it is they do. Maybe try passing a law forbidding fat old 70 something male sex tourists from sucking face with an 18 yr old thai girl in a public place. I do not mind public displays of affection but I have to draw a line somewhere. I agree with you. How old is OK to suck the face of an 18 year old girl? How old does one have to be to suck the face of a 70 year old guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Why don't they try moving it all off the streets and put it behind closed doors where it won't be visible to people on the streets? Stop the girls dressed like cheap little %^^%s sitting out the front of the bars soliciting punters. This way in won't be in the face of normal tourists. The sex tourists can still come and go behind closed doors and do what ever it is they do. Maybe try passing a law forbidding fat old 70 something male sex tourists from sucking face with an 18 yr old thai girl in a public place. I do not mind public displays of affection but I have to draw a line somewhere. The will never do that because that is like pulling down the front entrance to Disneyland or DreamWorld for the sex tourist. I have to agree tho the dirty old men groping and kissing young girls that could be thier great great grand daughters is rather disgusting and should be banned from public. Is it just dirty old men? Are clean old men not as disgusting and exempt from your ban? Or do you just think all old people are disgusting? BTW how old is old? Would that be anyone older than you? Does it change next year? Or when you get old? Edited August 22, 2011 by kerryk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKK Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If I was a Thai national I'd be sticking the middle finger up at all those who want to shut down our sex industry. Thailand is a free nation and not under the control of the USA, UK or any other western society. We shall do what we want when we want. If that includes letting our citizens perform sexual acts for money then so be it. After all judging by the millions, if you believe the figures, who come here for just that we can't be that wrong and seem to be providing a service that nobody else can. Anyway it is mostly the tight-arsed western social workers who've never had a <deleted> in their lives and are so kee-neow to come here and pay for some that spread these vile messages about Thailand being the sex capital of the world. To them I say "Get a Life" and "Get a <deleted>" Keep your nose outta my business...... I think you missed something in translation. It is not the U.S England or any other country that wants to clean up Thailands image. It is not the god botherer's nor the the politically correct or even the moral police who want to shed Thailand's image as "The sex capital of the world" It is Thailand who wants to do this. I didn't mean to infer that it is the USA, UK etc that is trying to clean up Thailand's image. Of course it is Thailand that is doing so in an attempt to regain face. It is these western nations who have named Thailand as "The sex capital of the world" not the Thais. Where could the west have got THAT idea . . .? The west has a, nasty in my opinion, habit of diverting attention away from its own problem/troubles by picking on smaller nations such as Thailand. One such attention diverter is "Thailand: Sex capital of the world" while prostitutes stand on just about every street corner of any major city in the USA or Europe. Never let it be said that these snow white lily-livered nations have prostitutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMANOBA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Take off the ' sex' and the destination will have not much to offer compared - just to make an example- to Vietnam, with its astonishing nature.Furthermore prostitution is part of thai culture, it is a way of living, of thinking, of accepting the power game which rules thai society. The Shinawatra are clearly back in the driving seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softgeorge Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Why don't they try moving it all off the streets and put it behind closed doors where it won't be visible to people on the streets? Stop the girls dressed like cheap little %^^%s sitting out the front of the bars soliciting punters. This way in won't be in the face of normal tourists. The sex tourists can still come and go behind closed doors and do what ever it is they do. Maybe try passing a law forbidding fat old 70 something male sex tourists from sucking face with an 18 yr old thai girl in a public place. I do not mind public displays of affection but I have to draw a line somewhere. The will never do that because that is like pulling down the front entrance to Disneyland or DreamWorld for the sex tourist. I have to agree tho the dirty old men groping and kissing young girls that could be thier great great grand daughters is rather disgusting and should be banned from public. Is it just dirty old men? Are clean old men not as disgusting and exempt from your ban? Or do you just think all old people are disgusting? BTW how old is old? Would that be anyone older than you? Does it change next year? Or when you get old? I have nothing against the elderly. The sight of an elderly old man groping and kissing a teenager in public is just a tad off putting tho. I am refering to the elderly sex tourists I have seen with young girls. By all means be a sex tourist if you want but try and shorten the age gap to say 40 yrs if you must grope and and extract the tonsils of your victim in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osiboy Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The economy will collapse. well not in the south i think,. but all the "black/invisible " money sent home to issan would knock the poorest people first,................as always ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osiboy Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If I was a Thai national I'd be sticking the middle finger up at all those who want to shut down our sex industry. Thailand is a free nation and not under the control of the USA, UK or any other western society. We shall do what we want when we want. If that includes letting our citizens perform sexual acts for money then so be it. After all judging by the millions, if you believe the figures, who come here for just that we can't be that wrong and seem to be providing a service that nobody else can. Anyway it is mostly the tight-arsed western social workers who've never had a <deleted> in their lives and are so kee-neow to come here and pay for some that spread these vile messages about Thailand being the sex capital of the world. To them I say "Get a Life" and "Get a <deleted>" Keep your nose outta my business...... you tell e'm mate,...............but it is the sex capital of the universe,........ you need to get out more !! ,..........first step- get a passport , next step; go look around ; step 3 ; if you can find a city that has more hookers than pattaya per capita, please let us know where it is . thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onionluke Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Thailand to build more sheds to accomodate sex tourism . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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