The (Near) Imminent Collapse Of The (Southern ) Euro

[dandare11]

Pondered it for a while now,with increasing reporting that it is more than a possibility and more of a probability.,with back to previous currencies ie Peseta and Drachma,with instant devaluations of between 40 and 50% for the PIIGS countries. Just what would the ex pat brigade do here?

Personally I think the "pull" would be strong enough,especially with free and full health care available for the old buggers,to up stakes and and go,make Thailand a two stage destination (yes am doing it). Spain sure is a cheap place to buy a house,same as cars,petrol is expensive though ,but surprisingly Carrefour ( Spain) was cheaper than Carrefour( Pattaya) for the majority of items.

If it happens and I'm sure it will it will be the death knell for the Italians (sizable presence here in Patts) along with Spanish and Greek living on pensions or fixed incomes

[yermanee]

If your prediction is correct (and that's a big IF) that would simply mean less persons from southern Europe and more from the northern countries.

But again a very BIG if.

Yermanee :jap:

[PattayaParent]

I thought it was the same Euro throughout the participating EU countries?

[InterestedObserver]

If the Eurozone collapses Thailand has more to worry about than the number of expats in Pattaya.

[yermanee]

I thought it was the same Euro throughout the participating EU countries?

Yes it is, but OP is referring to the southern countries reverting to their former currencies to avoid collapse of the €.

The countries that are having the biggest concerns are Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

Yermanee :jap:

[lonewolf99]

I thought it was the same Euro throughout the participating EU countries?

Yes it is, but OP is referring to the southern countries reverting to their former currencies to avoid collapse of the €.

The countries that are having the biggest concerns are Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

Yermanee :jap:

History lesson.....the PIGS used to have currencies that were worthless. The average Italian, Greek or Spaniard 20 years ago would have ripped your arm off for a Yankee Dollar.

It is very ironic now that the Euro is now worth way more than a Dollar. Paying taxes in Greece is basically an option which most do not bother doing, they also have the largest Army in Europe per head of population (who are they planning to fight?) Hence the massive debts. So the Northern Euros bail them out for billions and then a matter of months later they get bailed out again....the bottom line is they should never have been in Europe let alone the currency.

For years and years Charles de Gaulle did everything he could to keep Britain out of the "Common Market" as it was called. Sadly Britain eventually got in.

Britain would have been far better off being like Norway and backing off and staying well away from the debacle that is the EEC and the madness that is the common currency.

IMHO I hope these countries are thrown out of the Euro. Sweden Denmark and by sheer good luck Britain opted out.

None of my opinions are based on xenophobia. Just facts.

Edited September 5, 2011 by lonewolf99

[mjnaus]

I am very sorry to bust that bubble; but the nations currently in trouble in Europe won't be allowed to return to their previous currencies. Simply because this would mean the end of the Euro and very likely the EU with it; all the Euro skeptics will be proven right (they have been claiming this would happen from the get go) and the EU and Euro will loose whatever meager support they still enjoy at the moment.

And the end of the EU and Euro would mean a major set back for the globalist NWO movement (as they have been planning the EU and Euro for more then 50 years now). A far more likely scenario (one which is actually unfolding right before our eyes) is that the entire EU will suffer for a long time to come where bailout after bailout (consisting of tax payer money) will be needed to for the troubled nations to make their interest payments to the banks and other institutions. And while the big corporations will enjoy the the fire sale of anything worth selling from Greece (and likely Portugal and Ireland to follow), the standard of living across the entire EU will be drastically reduced.

Get your gold now....

[vpi78]

The Euro is just representative of the European proclivity for madness

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44394646/ns/health-mental_health/#.TmSHTWr0dPw

Edited December 2, 2011 by astral
No need to quote the entire post. Just pick out the relevant points, please - Astral

[yermanee]

History lesson.....the PIGS used to have currencies that were worthless. The average Italian, Greek or Spaniard 20 years ago would have ripped your arm off for a Yankee Dollar.

Thanks for the history lesson !

Thank God the British Pound and the British economy are doing so well.

Yermanee :jap:

Edited December 2, 2011 by astral
No need to quote the entire post. Just pick out the relevant points, please - Astral

[Jebhead]

I thought it was the same Euro throughout the participating EU countries?

Yes it is, but OP is referring to the southern countries reverting to their former currencies to avoid collapse of the €.

The countries that are having the biggest concerns are Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

Yermanee :jap:

Ireland is hardly southern????

JH

[dandare11]

I am very sorry to bust that bubble; but the nations currently in trouble in Europe won't be allowed to return to their previous currencies. Simply because this would mean the end of the Euro and very likely the EU with it; all the Euro skeptics will be proven right (they have been claiming this would happen from the get go) and the EU and Euro will loose whatever meager support they still enjoy at the moment.

And the end of the EU and Euro would mean a major set back for the globalist NWO movement (as they have been planning the EU and Euro for more then 50 years now). A far more likely scenario (one which is actually unfolding right before our eyes) is that the entire EU will suffer for a long time to come where bailout after bailout (consisting of tax payer money) will be needed to for the troubled nations to make their interest payments to the banks and other institutions. And while the big corporations will enjoy the the fire sale of anything worth selling from Greece (and likely Portugal and Ireland to follow), the standard of living across the entire EU will be drastically reduced.

Get your gold now....

Not bursting my bubble,but for sure the Euro down south is finished. Italy ,Greece and Spain cannot afford an austerity package,you cannot get blood out of a stone. Riots are increasing in Spain ,the unemployment especially amongst the young is upwards of 44%,they cannot survive in the Euro. Italy has already told the EU that it cannot afford the austerity package being hoisted onto it ,and Germany is refusing any more aid = end of the Euro.

Interesting to see the local elections in Germany about to kick off,see what the voters of Germany think.. The Piig countries will insist on the return to their previous currencies

[PattayaParent]

I thought it was the same Euro throughout the participating EU countries?

Yes it is, but OP is referring to the southern countries reverting to their former currencies to avoid collapse of the €.

The countries that are having the biggest concerns are Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

Yermanee :jap:

History lesson.....the PIGS used to have currencies that were worthless. The average Italian, Greek or Spaniard 20 years ago would have ripped your arm off for a Yankee Dollar.

Just like the new Eastern European members of the EU and Euro who are even poorer than Greece, Spain and Italy.

Edited September 5, 2011 by PattayaParent

[mjnaus]

I am very sorry to bust that bubble; but the nations currently in trouble in Europe won't be allowed to return to their previous currencies. Simply because this would mean the end of the Euro and very likely the EU with it; all the Euro skeptics will be proven right (they have been claiming this would happen from the get go) and the EU and Euro will loose whatever meager support they still enjoy at the moment.

And the end of the EU and Euro would mean a major set back for the globalist NWO movement (as they have been planning the EU and Euro for more then 50 years now). A far more likely scenario (one which is actually unfolding right before our eyes) is that the entire EU will suffer for a long time to come where bailout after bailout (consisting of tax payer money) will be needed to for the troubled nations to make their interest payments to the banks and other institutions. And while the big corporations will enjoy the the fire sale of anything worth selling from Greece (and likely Portugal and Ireland to follow), the standard of living across the entire EU will be drastically reduced.

Get your gold now....

Not bursting my bubble,but for sure the Euro down south is finished. Italy ,Greece and Spain cannot afford an austerity package,you cannot get blood out of a stone. Riots are increasing in Spain ,the unemployment especially amongst the young is upwards of 44%,they cannot survive in the Euro. Italy has already told the EU that it cannot afford the austerity package being hoisted onto it ,and Germany is refusing any more aid = end of the Euro.

Interesting to see the local elections in Germany about to kick off,see what the voters of Germany think.. The Piig countries will insist on the return to their previous currencies

Why would you think those countries "can't afford austerity packages"? As long as there is wealth left, austerity measures can and will be put in place. Perhaps you're confusing "can't afford" with "the general population won't like it". In that case, you're obviously right, however history teaches us that this doesn't matter. It's never been about the people, but about making sure the banks, corporations and other institutions get their money. We can clearly tell from Greece that the people are fed up and are fighting austerity any way they can, but the measures are pushed through never the less. And when the people are robbed of their wealth, well then then there are always still national possesions (utilities like water supply, electricity, transport, education) that can and will be sold for scraps to foreign corporations (mostly mediated by the IMF and World Bank).

So we're still a very long and painful journey away from "can't afford austerity" as we will see over the next few years....

[dandare11]

We shall see,we shall all see,but Italy putting its fingers up at the EU last week does not bode well,and the run on currencies from Euroland in the last few days has everything to do with stability.

It is the general will of the people in the individual countries that will decide the outcome of the Euro,not Brussels,and it is that ,that will decide the future of the Euro,so no guessing the future there,I believe it is a forgone conclusion the Euro is finished. Like water running downhill,it will take the easiest path,so will the politicians in southern Europe. The Piigs countries will never last 3 months the way things are shaping ,never mind 3 years

Edited December 2, 2011 by astral
No need to quote the entire post. Just pick out the relevant points, please - Astral

[BIGJIMMY]

In Greece, they hardly pay any taxes, they don't work a full week and they retire at 50, the countries main industry in tourism and the place is mega expensive compared to Spain and the other Med countries, I can't see them ever being in the black!!

[Pedzie]

Yermanee :jap:

For years and years Charles de Gaulle did everything he could to keep Britain out of the "Common Market" as it was called. Sadly Britain eventually got in.

Britain would have been far better off being like Norway and backing off and staying well away from the debacle that is the EEC and the madness that is the common currency.

IMHO I hope these countries are thrown out of the Euro. Sweden Denmark and by sheer good luck Britain opted out.

Yeah very nice of Mr De Gaulle, he seems to have had a very short memory ;-)

The UK economy was not suited to join the Euro when it was introduced (thank god).

The only certain thing when the Euro was introduced was that it would be a disaster for some countries or would collapse completely, one size fits all interest rates for very differing economies???

It still baffles me as to what the UK gets for the countless billions we needlessly pour into the EU every year? Plane loads of immigrants taking jobs,houses, putting a strain on critical services like the NHS.. Some people say it's all about trade, if the UK left the EU tomorrow then every single EU country would sign a free trade agreement with the UK immediately, so why the hell are we in this undemocratic illegal ' union'

[MAJIC]

I thought it was the same Euro throughout the participating EU countries?

Yes it is, but OP is referring to the southern countries reverting to their former currencies to avoid collapse of the €.

The countries that are having the biggest concerns are Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

Yermanee :jap:

All five Countries you have mentioned,have already collapsed, i.e.......... Bankrupt!

[MAJIC]

Yes, DeGaulle was the best friend we never had,but it worked in our favour,for many years.

The main thing that the UK has going for it now is that we did not adopt the Euro,and held back against European pressure,and our reward is having to make massive loans to Ireland in particular to bail them out.

The Superstate of Europe has always been a disasterous idea, waiting to happen, and joining was a monumental error by our Politicians,who deluded the voting public,that we were joining Europe,simply for trading purposes only,Liars and Traitors the lot of them,who were only thinking of their huge potential salaries, and business interests as MEPs,based in Brussels.

Edited December 2, 2011 by astral
No need to quote the entire post. Just pick out the relevant points, please - Astral

[Pedzie]

Only 1 strong economy in Europe and that is Germany, if Germany stays strong then the weaker economies will stay weaker, it can't work any other way.....

And just how long will German taxpayers tolerate bailouts??

I agree with whoever said about this being a blow to the NWO order plans for global governance, it's true, and the whole Euro EU thing has been in the pipeline for DECADES....

The whole financial mess worldwide was engineered, by greedy bankers who really control the world, US presidents and British prime ministers are selected not elected...Obama's administration is all about WALL STREET....

Back to what effect the euro troubles will have on Thailand, quite a lot i would imagine...same as anywhere else in the world

[londoedan]

It still baffles me as to what the UK gets for the countless billions we needlessly pour into the EU every year? Plane loads of immigrants taking jobs,houses, putting a strain on critical services like the NHS..

Do you read the Express or the Mail ?

[PattayaParent]

It still baffles me as to what the UK gets for the countless billions we needlessly pour into the EU every year? Plane loads of immigrants taking jobs,houses, putting a strain on critical services like the NHS..

Do you read the Express or the Mail ?

The Sun.

[yogi100]

Quoting Pedzie.

It baffles me as well. But the 30% of UK citizens who actually bother to vote still do so for the same parties in the vain hope that things will eventually improve. Things in the UK will have to get a lot worse before voters seek an alternative means of governance. Countries in the EU such as Denmark are beginning to see the light and are voting accordingly but the people of the UK will vote how their media tells them to. The UK media is owned by global organisations.

[Pedzie]

It still baffles me as to what the UK gets for the countless billions we needlessly pour into the EU every year? Plane loads of immigrants taking jobs,houses, putting a strain on critical services like the NHS..

Do you read the Express or the Mail ?

Edited September 6, 2011 by Pedzie

[Pedzie]

Quoting Pedzie.

It baffles me as well. But the 30% of UK citizens who actually bother to vote still do so for the same parties in the vain hope that things will eventually improve. Things in the UK will have to get a lot worse before voters seek an alternative means of governance. Countries in the EU such as Denmark are beginning to see the light and are voting accordingly but the people of the UK will vote how their media tells them to. The UK media is owned by global organisations.

I couldn't agree more....

[Pedzie]

It still baffles me as to what the UK gets for the countless billions we needlessly pour into the EU every year? Plane loads of immigrants taking jobs,houses, putting a strain on critical services like the NHS..

Do you read the Express or the Mail ?

No I'm not that naive to base my opinions on what I read in any newspaper, I see with my own eyes, my home city of Edinburgh has completely changed now thanks to unchecked immigration, it was nice at first to have 'some' new people in the city etc...But now It's gone crazy, locals can't get jobs, schools are full with non English speaking kids ??

South of the border I believe it's even worse, but in the day of politcal correctness gone crazy I must be a racist if disagree with mass immigration in this country, you can't even ask for a black coffee nowadays without being labelled racist!

[Gary A]

While the western countries continue to embrace socialism and live well beyond their means, Thailand continues to stumble along and produce more than they use.

It should eventually become obvious that you can't continue to spend money that you don't have. You can live on credit for a while but eventually your creditor wants his money back.

Will Thailand follow the western style and embrace socialism? Time will tell.

I think it was Maggie Thatcher who said that the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

[fritter1970]

System meltdown eminent.

Massive government debt in many European countries.

Even more debt in the U.S.A.

Tick, tick, tick. The Chinese starting to withdraw the purchase of U.S. and European government bonds as they realise they are actually worthless.

Tick, tick, tick. Gold has kept going higher for more than 10 years and the many amateurs in this world keep saying it is a bubble set to burst.

Tick, tick, tick. In a few short years we will all be wishing we bought gold when it was $1900 an ounce.

[roamer]

Could be a disaster all round. Germany desperately needs to keep the Euro together. A reversion to the DM or even a "northern euro" would bring money flooding in and render a lot of German exports prohibitively expensive.

Look how the Swiss moved yesterday to weaken the Swiss Franc citing the same fears, its been described by some as the largest single foreign exchange move they have ever seen.

Dangerous times.

[gregb]

Could be a disaster all round. Germany desperately needs to keep the Euro together. A reversion to the DM or even a "northern euro" would bring money flooding in and render a lot of German exports prohibitively expensive.

Look how the Swiss moved yesterday to weaken the Swiss Franc citing the same fears, its been described by some as the largest single foreign exchange move they have ever seen.

Dangerous times.

This wouldn't really be the horrible situation you imply. Germany would then have the option of voluntarily devaluing the DM just as the Swiss are doing, vs. the enforced weakness implied by remaining in the Euro.

I laugh when I hear the bankers say there is a liquidity crisis. There is more than enough money sloshing around the world already. What is lacking is solid investment opportunities, because it is now painfully clear that living within our means requires us to reduce consumption. Over production and too much growth is the problem, not liquidity.

All currencies are essentially doomed because of this. We need a very, very painful correction and alot less "stuff" before we can get back to any kind of realistic economy. Interestingly, the mega corporations were worried about this exact problem in the 1920's. People seemed to already have most of what they needed, and there just weren't enough new markets to keep producing. Then Freud's nephew Bernays stumbled onto the idea of using subconscious desires to turn otherwise responsible citizens into mindless consumers via the magic of propaganda in the form of advertising, and catastrophe was averted...for a while.

That social upheaval from a century ago is now coming home to roost. There is way too much stuff. In order to recover, we need to make less. If Germany is worried about a flood of money coming in to a shrinking economy, then they can print and accept inflation just the way the US is currently doing it. Or, they can decide to withdraw money from the economy and accept the hardships that goes along with all the loan defaults because in the end the economy needs to shrink.

However you look at it, hard times are ahead. We need to recognize that people have to live within their means, and that requires dramatic downsizing in all areas. The Euro is going to be destroyed no matter what the politicians would like because fundamentally different countries in the EU are going to recognize the unmistakable reality of this at different times. And you can't possibly have a shared currency without a shared social myth.

[roamer]

I see what you are are saying, accept some points, disagree with others. However when you talk about historical precedents you have a problem.

"We need to recognize that people have to live within their means, and that requires dramatic downsizing in all areas. "

If we are going to do that then we wouldn't be discussing this, on a forum like this, because for a starter Thailand would just be a place on the map and not a holiday destination. I am not saying your wrong. I am saying that will only happen when it no longer becomes viable to do these things, that is downsizing. Airlines downsize...lose employees, tourist resorts downsize, lose staff, aircraft makers downsize, lose staff. Ditto for virtually every industry across every nation.

"If Germany is worried about a flood of money coming in to a shrinking economy, then they can print and accept inflation just the way the US is currently doing it."

You can't see the contradiction here ?

Edited December 2, 2011 by astral
No need to quote the entire post. Just pick out the relevant points, please - Astral