Thai Govt Bt15,000 Pay Plan 'Unfair'

[webfact]

Bt15,000 pay plan 'unfair'

By The Nation

The Civil Service Commission (CSC) has recommended the comprehensive salary restructure in the public sector if the government is going to enforce Bt15,000 salary for all bachelor'sdegree holders.

"It will not be fair if only the new recruits enjoy the higher pay rate," a source at the CSC said yesterday.

Presently, bachelor'sdegree holders who have joined the civil service are given Bt8,700 starting salary plus a living allowance of up to Bt1,500.

During its election campaign, the Pheu Thai Party promised Bt15,000 salary for all bachelor's degree holders. After it successfully formed the government, it instructed the Finance Ministry to work on a plan to give at least Bt15,000 salary to all civil servants.

While this plan will not increase the government's budget burden much, it clearly will be unfair to those joining the civil service before the new pay rate take effect. The move, if implemented, will mean thousands of civil servants with years of service will see the newcomers earning the same rate.

"The salary of all civil servants must be adjusted," the CSC source thus insisted, "The government must recognise work experiences of the current civil servants too".

It added that for the restructure of the civil servants' salary, the government must issue a royal decree or amend the 2008 Civil Servant Act.

The Federation of Teachers Association of Thailand suggested that the government increase the salary of all civil servants by an amount equivalent to the gap between the current starting salary and the new starting salary for the bachelors' degree holders.

"The concept is simple. The government should raise the salary for all civil servants (not just newcomers or those earning less than Bt15,000 a month)," the federation's secretary general Prawit Beungsai said.

A source said the Finance Ministry had also considered an option of giving the monthly income of Bt15,000, not the salary, to all bachelors' degree holders.

"This option will do away with the complications related to the government's contributions to the Government Pension Fund and military pension," it said.

Deputy Finance Minister Viroon Tejapaibul has recently disclosed that it was not yet concluded as to whether the Bt15,000 should be the salary or monthly income.

He, so far, tried to point out that procedures involved were going to be less complicated if the issue was about the monthly income.

Viroon said he expected this policy to take effect from January onward.

Ammar Siamwalla, former chair of the Thailand Development Research Institute, declined to comment on whether the government should honour this election policy of the Pheu Thai Party.

"But I must say that the salary of civil servants is not low if their welfare is also taken into account," he said.

Civil Service Association of Thailand president Jadoon Apichartbut expressed support for the higher pay for civil servants. So far, he said he was worried that the living cost might rise too.

"This is a concern of all civil servants," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-09-10

[Buchholz]

Some of the exact same concerns from months ago over this scam that were never addressed pre-election, but hopefully the Civil Service Commission can find some answers.

Shame not enough people considered the questions prior to the crims getting voted in... now, it's too late.

Nothing about it being retroactive for past graduates.

2012 grad hired to a company makes 15,000 baht their first month. His supervisor, who has been with the company 4 years (for example) and graduated 5 years ago makes 12,000 baht.

It sure will be interesting office dynamics with that one as well as a whole host of other issues once various situations are thrown at it that required more than the 5 minutes of thought they put into the scheme.

I remembered Siripon casting out other scenarios on this Plan without a Plan...

I would like to ask Yinglak about the minimum 15,000 baht salary guaranteed for degree holders.

Is this just for new applicants?

Is this to be a law covering both the private and state sectors?

What about the millions of employees currently earning less than 15,000 baht? Are they all going to see their salaries increased to 15,000 baht if they have a degree? And if they don't have a degree, what will happen?

Details please, Pheua Maeow party.

and

How anyone can take Thaksin's ludicrous promises seriously is beyond me.

To quote a few 'I will solve the traffic problem in Bangkok in 6 months'

There will be no poverty in Thailand in 5 years'.

'Thailand is drug free'.

'I will return and lead the red shirts from the front as soonn as the first shot(from the army) is fired'.

So many lies for so many years, all he's doing is trying to hype up the electorate to vote for Pheua Thai with ludicrous promises such as to pay all graduates a minimum salary of 15,000 baht, thereby insuring employers switch to employing high school students instead.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Buchholz

[sfbandung]

<Satire warning!>

That settles it then.

Thai Visa posters must organise a coup immediately as clearly we can run the country much better than anyone else.

[Deez]

This government cant think past their next meal, let alone trying to think how their vote buying schemes will work

[siampolee]

The money genie is now out of the lamp.

[hammered]

Truth is that there a lot of civil servants who the country could do without while probably increasing the pay of all those productive ones. It wont happen of course. Not just true for Thailand either

Does anyone remember when Thaksin wanted to fire the least productive 10% of civil servants? It never happened of course as they flexed their bureaucratic muscles and even under the most powerful governments the bureaucracy has a lot of leeway to do what it wants and a lot of power to screw up government policy or leak all manner of things. Mind you it would have been popular with the ordinary people

I wonder too if salaries increase whether there will be an attempt to do something about the corruption that always gets linked to well they dont get paid much claims

[kumsamut]

A change shall start with something.

[berryranger]

<Satire warning!>

That settles it then.

Thai Visa posters must organise a coup immediately as clearly we can run the country much better than anyone else.

click "Like" 555+

[tragickingdom]

Maybe it is not unfair to the "old" guard, maybe it is simply unfair to anyone including graduates working in the private sector. You do not pay people because they are sitting in the same chair for many years, you pay ALL people on the basis of how good they are. You set a decent minimum wage, so people do not have to suffer like in backward countries like the USA where the poor have to work 2 or 3 jobs to survive and you let the rich pay a bit more tax. Than you determine who you need and who you do not need. The ones you need you pay more money, the ones you do not need you pay a lump sum to sleep at home instead of in the premises of the state enterprises, town halls and ministries.

It seems civil workers mostly lack common sense, in each and every country and think that their inability to move on to another job must be rewarded even if tey are only pushing paper.

[phiphidon]

Some of the exact same concerns from months ago over this scam that were never addressed pre-election, but hopefully the Civil Service Commission can find some answers.

Shame not enough people considered the questions prior to the crims getting voted in... now, it's too late.

By "crims" I presume you mean convicted felons. You are aware of the constitution? Just how many convicted felons are serving in the elected government, Buchholz, care to name names? Or is it as usual, just "dee tae phoot"?

[OzMick]

If the living allowance is included, current starting package ~B10,000. If they welsh on the B15,000 salary and change it to "income" it would mean a 50% income increase, and current employees would expect a flow-on of the same proportion. Plus increased contributions to pension funds.

Nett cost - around 50% increase in public servant's wages bill

Nett Gain for PTP - lots of happy public servants likely to support then next election

Nett Gain for Thailand - ?????????????

[scotbeve]

<Satire warning!>

That settles it then.

Thai Visa posters must organise a coup immediately as clearly we can run the country much better than anyone else.

:jap::cheesy:

[mca]

<Satire warning!>

That settles it then.

Thai Visa posters must organise a coup immediately as clearly we can run the country much better than anyone else.

Judging by some of the posts on here quite a few TVF members would have enough trouble running a bath.

[animatic]

<Satire warning!>

That settles it then.

Thai Visa posters must organise a coup immediately as clearly we can run the country much better than anyone else.

There are several here, whether I personally like them or not, that I think WOULD do a much better job. if given the reigns. This is not an indictment of Thais, but simply the Thai political class and it's lack of any class. And in several cases inability to think with anything vaguely seen as clarity of thought or vision beyond the nostrils and pocketbook.

Edited September 10, 2011 by animatic

[anon467367354]

I'm pretty sure these issues where thought of when Yingluck made this promise, but she just didn't want to debate whether or not it would work or be fair with Abhisit who would have eaten her alive. She did the right thing, she straightened her spine and acted like a coward, and stuck to it so as to not lose face. satire

[Buchholz]

Some of the exact same concerns from months ago over this scam that were never addressed pre-election, but hopefully the Civil Service Commission can find some answers.

Shame not enough people considered the questions prior to the crims getting voted in... now, it's too late.

By "crims" I presume you mean convicted felons. You are aware of the constitution? Just how many convicted felons are serving in the elected government, Buchholz, care to name names? Or is it as usual, just "dee tae phoot"?

You presume wrong... as usual. The slang doesn't require conviction status.

I am aware of the constitution.

Try to stick with the required English usage on the forum.

[OzMick]

Some of the exact same concerns from months ago over this scam that were never addressed pre-election, but hopefully the Civil Service Commission can find some answers.

Shame not enough people considered the questions prior to the crims getting voted in... now, it's too late.

By "crims" I presume you mean convicted felons. You are aware of the constitution? Just how many convicted felons are serving in the elected government, Buchholz, care to name names? Or is it as usual, just "dee tae phoot"?

Don't you realise that many are not convicted felons because they are serving in the elected government - a status which prevents justifiable criminal charges from proceeding. The PM for starters clearly committed perjury in claiming ownership of her brother's assets, Chalerm is Chalerm, and then we start on the red shirt team. Bluebeard had lesser and fewer criminals in his crew.

Edited September 10, 2011 by OzMick

[SICHONSTEVE]

"While this plan will not increase the government's budget burden much, it clearly will be unfair to those joining the civil service before the new pay rate take effect. The move, if implemented, will mean thousands of civil servants with years of service will see the newcomers earning the same rate".

C'mon!! You can't expect this government to think of everything - this is simply a minor glitch!!!! and who said anything about being fair!!! Ha Ha Ha :jap:

[phiphidon]

Some of the exact same concerns from months ago over this scam that were never addressed pre-election, but hopefully the Civil Service Commission can find some answers.

Shame not enough people considered the questions prior to the crims getting voted in... now, it's too late.

By "crims" I presume you mean convicted felons. You are aware of the constitution? Just how many convicted felons are serving in the elected government, Buchholz, care to name names? Or is it as usual, just "dee tae phoot"?

You presume wrong... as usual. The slang doesn't require conviction status.

I am aware of the constitution.

Try to stick with the required English usage on the forum.

So are you saying they are criminals? In that case the individuals you are accusing must have committed crimes in accordance with the definition. Or does "crim" mean something else in your knowledge of slang? I just wanted to know whether you just throw around accusations in the hope someone will believe you or if you're willing to back the accusations up with proof. I'll try and stick with the usuage of the English Language, thanks for the reminder.

[kraplung]

So it would appear that in this latest hole PT has dug nearly every civil servant would earn the same no matter what their grade or experience. Let's hope none of them are has heard of erosion of differentials!

But as someone alluded to earlier in the private sector we might see an end to companies insisting on a bachelors degree as a minimum qualification.

[steveyinasia]

The only thing that this will increase is the likelihood that more students will be paying to get their degrees.

[virtualtraveller]

The solution seems to be, don't hire graduates for the civil service, they can't afford it, but just imagine what sort of government service we will get for our tax! Outsource it then. Let the civil servants boycott....

[ballpoint]

So are you saying they are criminals? In that case the individuals you are accusing must have committed crimes in accordance with the definition. Or does "crim" mean something else in your knowledge of slang? I just wanted to know whether you just throw around accusations in the hope someone will believe you or if you're willing to back the accusations up with proof. I'll try and stick with the usuage of the English Language, thanks for the reminder.

Synonyms for "criminal":

Noun 1. criminal - someone who has committed a crime or has been legally convicted of a crime

crook, felon, malefactor, outlaw accessary, accessory - someone who helps another person commit a crime

arsonist, firebug, incendiary - a criminal who illegally sets fire to property

blackmailer, extortioner, extortionist - a criminal who extorts money from someone by threatening to expose embarrassing information about them

bootlegger, moonshiner - someone who makes or sells illegal liquor

briber, suborner - someone who pays (or otherwise incites) you to commit a wrongful act

coconspirator, conspirator, machinator, plotter - a member of a conspiracy

desperado, desperate criminal - a bold outlaw (especially on the American frontier)

fugitive from justice, fugitive - someone who is sought by law officers; someone trying to elude justice

gangster, mobster - a criminal who is a member of gang

highbinder - a corrupt politician

highjacker, hijacker - someone who uses force to take over a vehicle (especially an airplane) in order to reach an alternative destination

hood, hoodlum, punk, strong-armer, thug, toughie, goon, tough - an aggressive and violent young criminal

gaolbird, jail bird, jailbird - a criminal who has been jailed repeatedly

abductor, kidnaper, kidnapper, snatcher - someone who unlawfully seizes and detains a victim (usually for ransom)

mafioso - a member of the Mafia crime syndicate in the United States

gangster's moll, gun moll, moll - the girlfriend of a gangster

liquidator, manslayer, murderer - a criminal who commits homicide (who performs the unlawful premeditated killing of another human being)

principal - (criminal law) any person involved in a criminal offense, regardless of whether the person profits from such involvement

parolee, probationer - someone released on probation or on parole

drug dealer, drug peddler, drug trafficker, peddler, pusher - an unlicensed dealer in illegal drugs

racketeer - someone who commits crimes for profit (especially one who obtains money by fraud or extortion)

raper, rapist - someone who forces another to have sexual intercourse

habitual criminal, recidivist, repeater - someone who is repeatedly arrested for criminal behavior (especially for the same criminal behavior)

scofflaw - one who habitually ignores the law and does not answer court summonses

contrabandist, moon curser, moon-curser, runner, smuggler - someone who imports or exports without paying duties

stealer, thief - a criminal who takes property belonging to someone else with the intention of keeping it or selling it

traitor, treasonist - someone who betrays his country by committing treason

law offender, lawbreaker, violator - someone who violates the law

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/criminal

A number of them clearly fit at least one of these terms. Although, perhaps Bucholz should have said "prior to the highbinders, scofflaws, recidvists, racketeers, accessories, suborners, firebugs, thugs and violators, led by a gangster's moll, and run purely for the benefit of a fugitive, getting voted in..."

Maybe you actually have a comment on the OP as well?

Edited September 10, 2011 by ballpoint

[kraplung]

@steveyinasia............ Don't knock Thai degrees. They are the best money can buy!

[Buchholz]

Some of the exact same concerns from months ago over this scam that were never addressed pre-election, but hopefully the Civil Service Commission can find some answers.

Shame not enough people considered the questions prior to the crims getting voted in... now, it's too late.

By "crims" I presume you mean convicted felons. You are aware of the constitution? Just how many convicted felons are serving in the elected government, Buchholz, care to name names? Or is it as usual, just "dee tae phoot"?

You presume wrong... as usual. The slang doesn't require conviction status.

I am aware of the constitution.

Try to stick with the required English usage on the forum.

So are you saying they are criminals? In that case the individuals you are accusing must have committed crimes in accordance with the definition. Or does "crim" mean something else in your knowledge of slang? I just wanted to know whether you just throw around accusations in the hope someone will believe you or if you're willing to back the accusations up with proof. I'll try and stick with the usuage of the English Language, thanks for the reminder.

Read my post again and you'll find the pedantic answer you relentlessly seek.

[Buchholz]

The only thing that this will increase is the likelihood that more students will be paying to get their degrees.

Those that it effects also think it means work for them will be drying up...

Higher Salary Feared to Hamper Job Opportunities

The results of Bangkok Poll's latest survey show

over 90 percent of the respondents fear the higher pay will mean jobs will be harder to find.

The Bangkok Poll conducted a survey on over 1,800 4th year college students in Bangkok and surrounding areas for their say on the idea of paying a starting salary of 15,000 for bachelor degree holders.

Nearly 18 percent of the respondents believe they won't be able to find a job at all.

[Buchholz]

So are you saying they are criminals? In that case the individuals you are accusing must have committed crimes in accordance with the definition. Or does "crim" mean something else in your knowledge of slang? I just wanted to know whether you just throw around accusations in the hope someone will believe you or if you're willing to back the accusations up with proof. I'll try and stick with the usuage of the English Language, thanks for the reminder.

Synonyms for "criminal":

Noun 1. criminal - someone who has committed a crime or has been legally convicted of a crime

crook, felon, malefactor, outlaw accessary, accessory - someone who helps another person commit a crime

arsonist, firebug, incendiary - a criminal who illegally sets fire to property

blackmailer, extortioner, extortionist - a criminal who extorts money from someone by threatening to expose embarrassing information about them

bootlegger, moonshiner - someone who makes or sells illegal liquor

briber, suborner - someone who pays (or otherwise incites) you to commit a wrongful act

coconspirator, conspirator, machinator, plotter - a member of a conspiracy

desperado, desperate criminal - a bold outlaw (especially on the American frontier)

fugitive from justice, fugitive - someone who is sought by law officers; someone trying to elude justice

gangster, mobster - a criminal who is a member of gang

highbinder - a corrupt politician

highjacker, hijacker - someone who uses force to take over a vehicle (especially an airplane) in order to reach an alternative destination

hood, hoodlum, punk, strong-armer, thug, toughie, goon, tough - an aggressive and violent young criminal

gaolbird, jail bird, jailbird - a criminal who has been jailed repeatedly

abductor, kidnaper, kidnapper, snatcher - someone who unlawfully seizes and detains a victim (usually for ransom)

mafioso - a member of the Mafia crime syndicate in the United States

gangster's moll, gun moll, moll - the girlfriend of a gangster

liquidator, manslayer, murderer - a criminal who commits homicide (who performs the unlawful premeditated killing of another human being)

principal - (criminal law) any person involved in a criminal offense, regardless of whether the person profits from such involvement

parolee, probationer - someone released on probation or on parole

drug dealer, drug peddler, drug trafficker, peddler, pusher - an unlicensed dealer in illegal drugs

racketeer - someone who commits crimes for profit (especially one who obtains money by fraud or extortion)

raper, rapist - someone who forces another to have sexual intercourse

habitual criminal, recidivist, repeater - someone who is repeatedly arrested for criminal behavior (especially for the same criminal behavior)

scofflaw - one who habitually ignores the law and does not answer court summonses

contrabandist, moon curser, moon-curser, runner, smuggler - someone who imports or exports without paying duties

stealer, thief - a criminal who takes property belonging to someone else with the intention of keeping it or selling it

traitor, treasonist - someone who betrays his country by committing treason

law offender, lawbreaker, violator - someone who violates the law

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/criminal

A number of them clearly fit at least one of these terms. Although, perhaps Bucholz should have said "prior to the highbinders, scofflaws, recidvists, racketeers, accessories, suborners, firebugs, thugs and violators, led by a gangster's moll, and run purely for the benefit of a fugitive, getting voted in..."

Maybe you actually have a comment on the OP as well?

So far, he doesn't. With nothing to say, there's always some over-personal pedantic attack which can be launched.

btw, thanks for the list... I particularly like the gangster moll one...

[CWMcMurray]

There is a very easy solution to find the money to pay for the wage increase....

When a government official is caught breaking the law rather than sending them to an "inactive post" and then continue to pay them for the rest of their life for not doing any work.... fire them...

You could even go a step further and eliminate the entire idea of "inactive posts"... if people are not able to do the job or are not needed, then you lay them off.

if this was done and all "inactive posts" were eliminated, there would be plenty of money to pay for significant raises for all remaining government officials.

[Pib]

There is a very easy solution to find the money to pay for the wage increase....

When a government official is caught breaking the law rather than sending them to an "inactive post" and then continue to pay them for the rest of their life for not doing any work.... fire them...

You could even go a step further and eliminate the entire idea of "inactive posts"... if people are not able to do the job or are not needed, then you lay them off.

if this was done and all "inactive posts" were eliminated, there would be plenty of money to pay for significant raises for all remaining government officials.

From news reports it sure does seem like there are a LOT of inactive posts in the govt---maybe all the civil servants/military/police in the inactive posts are the silent majority of the govt--and a well paid silent majority with basically no work to do. I wonder if they even showup on workdays to set in their office chair and stare at the walls.

[plumeria]

Last few times I needed to see a particular civil servant it was no easy matter because several days each week he was away on "seminars" and the other days he only came in only at the appointed time to sign the papers and get back to whatever was more important than his job. Once he was actually working things went smoothly but he certainly wasn't putting in a 40 hour week and he was "active". Add that kind of civil servant to all the dead wood collecting salary for an inactive" post and its a lot of waste.

I may be no fan of Taksin but when he was PM the district office was clean, fast, efficient, modern and everyone was "active" (or at least appeared that way) when I needed to do anything with the civil service. I was actually impressed with the speed and spiffy set up.

But last time I was there it had really gone down hill. Flush the toilet and pay the people doing the work more money and the entire system would improve greatly. (Oh, yeah. I should mention that the toilets in the mens room could not would not or should not flush, really.)

And at least once I had to invoke the sign on the wall that said: "If you get treated unfairly, take it up with the Director".

It actually was possible to go to the top floor and see #1 and he called in the civil servant acting stupid, simply explained how she was acting stupid and problem solved. So there are some decisive and active civil servants with a brain and we'd all be better off if they got rid of the others and paid those remaining better pay.

Edited September 10, 2011 by plumeria