Bangkok 'Can Handle' Deluge If There Is No More Downpour

[webfact]

Bangkok 'can handle' deluge if there is no more downpour

By Thanatpong Kongsai

The Nation

Despite a massive amount of runoff water from the upper part of the country, Bangkok remains relatively safe from flooding.

"The situation should be manageable if no rain's coming," Sanya Sheenimit said yesterday in his capacity as the head of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) Drainage and Sewerage Department.

The runoff water is expected to reach Bangkok on either the coming Monday or Tuesday. Yet the huge volume of arriving water is unlikely to send floods to the capital given that the average height of embankment along the most vulnerable stretch of the Chao Phraya River in Bangkok is now at 2.5 metres. That height is enough to cope with the flow of 3,500 cubic metres of water per second.

As of press time, about 3,183 cubic metres of water flew past Ayutthaya's Bang Ban district per second. Ayutthaya is just about onehour drive from the capital.

Although up to 3,700 cubic metres of water was expected to travel past the Chao Phraya Dam in Chai Nat on Monday and Tuesday, not all will head directly to Bangkok. The overflowing river will definitely send runoff water to Nakhon Sawan, Sing Buri, Lop Buri, Angthong, Ayutthaya and Chai Nat before affecting the capital.

Emptied paddy fields, ponds and waterretention areas in these six provinces can be expected to cushion the overflowing impacts, if any, on Bangkok.

Open fields in Ayutthaya, for example, will be able to accommodate up to 450 million cubic metres of water. Nakhon Sawan's fields and a big pond can take in up to two billion cubic metres of water, while Sing Buri's open fields are able to receive 400 million cubic metres of water.

In an exclusive interview with The Nation, Sanya said Bangkok was equipped with many floodprevention tools too.

"The embankment along the Chao Phraya River here has already stretched as far as 75.8 metres. Moreover, we have formed sandbags as embankment for another stretch of about 1.2 kilometres," he pointed out.

The Chao Phraya River's portion in Bangkok stretches over an 86km distance. Embankment construction for the remaining stretch is going on.

Sanya reckoned that the runoff water from the North could lead Rapipat and Maha Sawas canals to overflow in Bangkok but again proper measures were already in place.

Water in the Rapipat Canal, which stretches from the Chao Phraya River, can flow quickly to drainage lines prepared by the Royal Irrigation Department.

"The drainage lines will push water out to the sea," Sanya pointed out.

The water flow related to the Rapipat Canal can affect Bangkok's eastern areas like Nong Chok, Min Buri and Lat Krabang districts.

Sanya said when the runoff water from the North arrives, the water level in Maha Sawas Canal could climb up. This waterway, after all, is connected to the Tha Chin and Nakhon Chaisi rivers.

"But embankment along the Maha Sawas canal is in place," he added, explaining why he was optimistic about Bangkok's prospect even in the wake of floods that now rage across 29 provinces.

He said Bangkok presently had 158 pump stations, 21 waterretention areas, and more than 200 water gates to manage the situation.

He said the waterretention areas in Bangkok can hold up to 12 trillion cubic metres of water. With this improved system, the BMA can also reduce the water levels in the capital's canals much faster and more efficiently than before.

"In the past, we could at most push the water level in the San Saeb Canal to 20 centimetres below sea level. But now, we can keep it at 70 centimetres below sea level," Sanya explained as to why Bangkok's canals became more prepared to deal with the runoff water from the North.

The lowering of the water level in canals needs the help not just of water gates but also of pumping stations.

According to Sanya, the Phra Khanong Pump Station, for example, could push out up to four million cubic metres of water per day.

Sanya urged Bangkok residents to stay on alert but not become too worried.

"We have a proper floodprevention system in place," he said. He added that in the event of floods, drainage tunnels in Bangkok would ensure the floodwater subsided quickly.

He said if the floodwater was about 20 to 30 centimetres deep in the past, relevant authorities would need about three to four hours to drain the floodwater.

"But now, we will be able to do it within oneandahalf hour. Also, if floods hit, the depth of floodwater should be much less than before," he said.

On the repeatedly flooded areas in Bangkok, Sanya said those areas were directly in the floods ways and thus residents there would have to know how to deal with the rising water sometimes.

"Water level in those communities will naturally go up and down. But we can provide assistance such as forming raised walkways for them during flooding," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-09-17

[webfact]

Flood protection sufficient, BMA says

By The Nation

Water catchment areas under superviฌsion of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration and government agenฌcies are sufficient to hold back flood water and peak tides to prevent the capital from being submerged, according to a BMA report.

In addition to 20 such catchment areas, there is one built on royal initiaฌtive known as Monkey Cheek in Bang Khunthian district, which is operated by the Royal Irrigation Department to contain flood and untreated water on the Thon Buri side.

The report lists other natural resources or privatelyowned or manmade properties useable as catchฌment areas, such as ponds, lakes in housing estates or reservoirs near or built on resorts or golf courses, that could hold extra rain or flood water.

There are 10 BMAsupervised areas, including large sized ones such as Nong Bon pond, Makkasan pond, and Suan Rot Fai pond.

There are another seven owned by government agencies or state enterฌprises, such as two ponds in Armyowned areas assigned individually to the 2nd Cavalry Division and 11th Infantry Regiment, and Ekkamai pond owned by the Expressway Authority of Thailand.

There are three privatelyowned areas, one belonging to the Siam Cement Group in Bang Sue, Suan Siam water park in Min Buri district and See Kan pond in Lak Si district.

-- The Nation 2011-09-17

[davehowden]

I guess it depends on what he means by "downpour", seems to qualify it by saying "no more rains".

The Thai Meterological Department are predicting slightly above average rainfall in October for ALL areas of Thailand except the South, not to mention the October high tides which back up the flood waters in the Chao Phraya.

As this almost "suprising" seasonal event happens every year it is surley time that Thailand seriously adresses the issue by better controlling forest removal for illicit developments, for cultivation and timber extraction etc. which lead to excessive run off and hence flooding.

Good luck to all Bangkokinas, time to move upstairs.

Edited September 17, 2011 by davehowden

[johnh101]

Does anyone have any links to maps showing the areas that are flooded ?

[thequietman]

Lets hope the deluge of rains continues then.

The only way for the elites and the government to really understand what the people of the north are going through, is for them to experience it themselves first hand.

Maybe when they see the hardships and dangers that follow from intensive flooding they might address this problem that has been affecting this country for the almost 9 years I have been here. If they are losing money due to flooding, then we will be talking their language. (the only one they appear to understand)

it is also a perfect opportunity for them to cream lots of money of the top for the flood prevention schemes they will come up with. as long the schemes really work for the provinces and address the flooding, then everyone benefits.

however in reality "everyone benefits" is not a phrase thai politicians like to use and so probably as is every year, nothing will be done.

will everyone please remember to sound surprised when it happens again next year. until then, be careful out there.

[Bakseedaa]

Lets hope the deluge of rains continues then.

The only way for the elites and the government to really understand what the people of the north are going through, is for them to experience it themselves first hand.

Maybe when they see the hardships and dangers that follow from intensive flooding they might address this problem that has been affecting this country for the almost 9 years I have been here. If they are losing money due to flooding, then we will be talking their language. (the only one they appear to understand)

it is also a perfect opportunity for them to cream lots of money of the top for the flood prevention schemes they will come up with. as long the schemes really work for the provinces and address the flooding, then everyone benefits.

however in reality "everyone benefits" is not a phrase thai politicians like to use and so probably as is every year, nothing will be done.

will everyone please remember to sound surprised when it happens again next year. until then, be careful out there.

Who cares if the North goes under, same as Pakistan....who gives a dam_n..! learn to swim young man...!

[webfact]

Irrigation officials say Pasak Cholasit Dam is now at full capacity which poses a danger /TAN_Network

[govekidao]

First of all Hi, I'm new here, and new to the BKK expat community....

Secondly, that was a horribly written article; tangles syntax, incomprehensible figures, full of subordinate clauses - a total journalistic train wreck. It'd be far more useful if they could express the date in percentages, and contextualise by suggesting deviation from the norm.

The basic fact that seems to be missing is what happened last time a similar quantity of water arrived in BKK, and have things since improved or worsened ? Can anyone tell me what we may expect, and indeed what preparations would be prudent ?

[Nisa]

Am I not viewing this picture correctly or is this the result of photo editing?

The man looks to be in front of the table that has pots on it bigger than him. Also appears the table is made for giants to sit at. And if that is a door behind the table it would too seem like it is made for giants too.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Nisa

[folium]

I guess it depends on what he means by "downpour", seems to qualify it by saying "no more rains".

The Thai Meterological Department are predicting slightly above average rainfall in October for ALL areas of Thailand except the South, not to mention the October high tides which back up the flood waters in the Chao Phraya.

As this almost "suprising" seasonal event happens every year it is surley time that Thailand seriously adresses the issue by better controlling forest removal for illicit developments, for cultivation and timber extraction etc. which lead to excessive run off and hence flooding.

Good luck to all Bangkokinas, time to move upstairs.

Not quite as simple as that.

There is very little actual scientific data to support the link between deforestation and flooding outside small size river basins. In the absence of complete information, overgeneralizations or myths about links between land use activities and hydrological processes have emerged, such as 'deforestation causes flooding' regardless of basin size, or 'deforestation causes erosion', even where natural erosion rates are high. These generalisations, which cannot be verified, and in some cases have been disproved scientifically, are still frequently used as justifications for policy and programmes.

Such myths may selectively single out particular causes from multiple ones in order to support institutional and political agendas, and may be a convenient basis for advice because their assumptions are unverifiable. This leads to misguided policies and remedial approaches, and often results in poor and minority populations in upland areas being made scapegoats, despite their relatively minor contributions to the problem.

There is a growing weight of evidence that the management practice of upland forest appears to be more significant than its presence or not of flood mitigation. Forest management activities may actually increase floods. Additional, poorly planned drainage and road construction tend to increase stream density and soil compaction during logging.

The actual frequency of flooding globally is little changed (with some local variation), but the impact in human terms is dramatically worsening. This is more a function of construction in inappropriate places due to lack of choice, control or knowledge (often a combination of all 3).

Edited September 17, 2011 by folium

[bluebluewater]

That is indeed a weird photo of the guy with the pots.

Be that as it may, I think it's funny to have such a pic of a guy up to his neck in water and at the same time claiming all will be well.

[Nisa]

That is indeed a weird photo of the guy with the pots.

Be that as it may, I think it's funny to have such a pic of a guy up to his neck in water and at the same time claiming all will be well.

lol, I thought the same thing but figured I would stick to only one odd observation with the photo.

[conimex]

As usual: " the rich will be safed and the poor need to suffer" .

[khaowong1]

They do and say this every year. My guess is, nothing has been done, maybe someone has actually gone and looked at what "needs" to be done, but besides that, nothing. It always sounds good when someone in charge of the floods makes statements like this. Of course, when the flooding does happen in Bangkok, the person making the statements here will completely deny being in charge and blame someone else.

[ding]

First of all Hi, I'm new here, and new to the BKK expat community....

Secondly, that was a horribly written article; tangles syntax, incomprehensible figures, full of subordinate clauses - a total journalistic train wreck. It'd be far more useful if they could express the date in percentages, and contextualise by suggesting deviation from the norm.

The basic fact that seems to be missing is what happened last time a similar quantity of water arrived in BKK, and have things since improved or worsened ? Can anyone tell me what we may expect, and indeed what preparations would be prudent ?

Assuming this is real and not flame-bait...

You may have an easier time if you don't pole vault over mouse turds. Thinking too much in Thailand requires loads of medicine!

And if you're teaching English- well, you better live next to a wat. You're gonna need it.

:jap:

In the early 90's I bailed from BKK and headed to a village outside Surin. It was a great experience due to a Swiss guy and his wife. Thailand opened up for me because I was open to it, I figure. So the best preparation started with an easy openness, in my case.

[anterian]

That is indeed a weird photo of the guy with the pots.

Be that as it may, I think it's funny to have such a pic of a guy up to his neck in water and at the same time claiming all will be well.

lol, I thought the same thing but figured I would stick to only one odd observation with the photo.

Well the "guy" looks like a typical overweight Thai kid of about 6 or 7 years old. So that makes the relative sizes more realistic.

[pastitche]

I guess it depends on what he means by "downpour", seems to qualify it by saying "no more rains".

The Thai Meterological Department are predicting slightly above average rainfall in October for ALL areas of Thailand except the South, not to mention the October high tides which back up the flood waters in the Chao Phraya.

As this almost "suprising" seasonal event happens every year it is surley time that Thailand seriously adresses the issue by better controlling forest removal for illicit developments, for cultivation and timber extraction etc. which lead to excessive run off and hence flooding.

Good luck to all Bangkokinas, time to move upstairs.

Not quite as simple as that.

There is very little actual scientific data to support the link between deforestation and flooding outside small size river basins. In the absence of complete information, overgeneralizations or myths about links between land use activities and hydrological processes have emerged, such as 'deforestation causes flooding' regardless of basin size, or 'deforestation causes erosion', even where natural erosion rates are high. These generalisations, which cannot be verified, and in some cases have been disproved scientifically, are still frequently used as justifications for policy and programmes.

Such myths may selectively single out particular causes from multiple ones in order to support institutional and political agendas, and may be a convenient basis for advice because their assumptions are unverifiable. This leads to misguided policies and remedial approaches, and often results in poor and minority populations in upland areas being made scapegoats, despite their relatively minor contributions to the problem.

There is a growing weight of evidence that the management practice of upland forest appears to be more significant than its presence or not of flood mitigation. Forest management activities may actually increase floods. Additional, poorly planned drainage and road construction tend to increase stream density and soil compaction during logging.

The actual frequency of flooding globally is little changed (with some local variation), but the impact in human terms is dramatically worsening. This is more a function of construction in inappropriate places due to lack of choice, control or knowledge (often a combination of all 3).

You are obviously an expert, so provide some information to back up what you claim

[rubl]

A nice downpour again this evening. Being in Khet Dusit, BKK, no problem. Water is pumped outside. Some of the outer suburbs may have a foot or two of water in the living room, but BKK 'can handle' the deluge. Run-off area Cobra Swamp needs to be kept dry as well. So where does the water go?

On a more philosophical tone, if a tree falls in a forest, but there is no one to hear it, does it make noise?

[Nisa]

That is indeed a weird photo of the guy with the pots.

Be that as it may, I think it's funny to have such a pic of a guy up to his neck in water and at the same time claiming all will be well.

lol, I thought the same thing but figured I would stick to only one odd observation with the photo.

Well the "guy" looks like a typical overweight Thai kid of about 6 or 7 years old. So that makes the relative sizes more realistic.

An overweight 6 or 7 year old kid with a manly face that can fit into any of the pots on the table?

Edited September 18, 2011 by Nisa

[vpi78]

First of all Hi, I'm new here, and new to the BKK expat community....

Secondly, that was a horribly written article; tangles syntax, incomprehensible figures, full of subordinate clauses - a total journalistic train wreck. It'd be far more useful if they could express the date in percentages, and contextualise by suggesting deviation from the norm.

The basic fact that seems to be missing is what happened last time a similar quantity of water arrived in BKK, and have things since improved or worsened ? Can anyone tell me what we may expect, and indeed what preparations would be prudent ?

This "flood" is not much different than years past. In the last 30 years there has been significant improvement to Bangkok drainage.

Back in the 70s and early 80s they practically paved over much of the natural waterways/khlongs/canals which made the place resemble Amsterdam and it was not unusual to wade through 2 feet of water along the lower end of Sukhumvit/Ploenchit.

Although they are blasted most of the time on ThaiVisa, particularly by people that have only been in Thailand for a year or so ... if they have even been here at all, the Thai authorities woke up to the danger in the 90s and have greatly improved the water runoff and drainage system from Bangkok.

In short, you have nothing to worry about. This tend to happen every year about this time. The rainy season peaks this month and will wind down greatly in October.

[sfbandung]

Very techomological.

There'll be no flood if it doesn't rain.

Ok. And if it does?

[folium]

I guess it depends on what he means by "downpour", seems to qualify it by saying "no more rains".

The Thai Meterological Department are predicting slightly above average rainfall in October for ALL areas of Thailand except the South, not to mention the October high tides which back up the flood waters in the Chao Phraya.

As this almost "suprising" seasonal event happens every year it is surley time that Thailand seriously adresses the issue by better controlling forest removal for illicit developments, for cultivation and timber extraction etc. which lead to excessive run off and hence flooding.

Good luck to all Bangkokinas, time to move upstairs.

Not quite as simple as that.

There is very little actual scientific data to support the link between deforestation and flooding outside small size river basins. In the absence of complete information, overgeneralizations or myths about links between land use activities and hydrological processes have emerged, such as 'deforestation causes flooding' regardless of basin size, or 'deforestation causes erosion', even where natural erosion rates are high. These generalisations, which cannot be verified, and in some cases have been disproved scientifically, are still frequently used as justifications for policy and programmes.

Such myths may selectively single out particular causes from multiple ones in order to support institutional and political agendas, and may be a convenient basis for advice because their assumptions are unverifiable. This leads to misguided policies and remedial approaches, and often results in poor and minority populations in upland areas being made scapegoats, despite their relatively minor contributions to the problem.

There is a growing weight of evidence that the management practice of upland forest appears to be more significant than its presence or not of flood mitigation. Forest management activities may actually increase floods. Additional, poorly planned drainage and road construction tend to increase stream density and soil compaction during logging.

The actual frequency of flooding globally is little changed (with some local variation), but the impact in human terms is dramatically worsening. This is more a function of construction in inappropriate places due to lack of choice, control or knowledge (often a combination of all 3).

You are obviously an expert, so provide some information to back up what you claim

I'm certainly no expert (nor an apologist for the timber industry), just someone interested in the topic and keen to look beyond the obvious answers.

In terms of the link between deforestation and flooding, outside of melodramatic journalists, it is an issue of great debate in the scientific community with no clear answers yet. But it does seem that the simple link is not proven and reality as ever is a lot more complex.

Try some of these to get a flavour of the debate.

http://www.cifor.org/nc/online-library/polex-our-policy-blog/polex-single.html?tx_ciforpolexwebservice[articleid]=790&tx_ciforpolexwebservice[lang]=English&tx_ciforpolexwebservice[title]=Forests%20and%20floods%2C%20revisited&tx

http://www.cifor.org/online-library/polex-cifors-blog-for-and-by-forest-policy-experts/english/detail/article/1222/forests-and-floods-revisited-1/browse/1.html

http://www.cgiar.org/monthlystory/november2005.html

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2486.2007.01446.x/abstract;jsessionid=27A66A06A395B20E341222051625AA58.d01t03

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v449/n7161/full/449409a.html

http://www.asb.cgiar.org/pdfwebdocs/AGEE_special_Bruijnzeel_Hydrological_functions.pdf

[Grove]

That is indeed a weird photo of the guy with the pots.

Be that as it may, I think it's funny to have such a pic of a guy up to his neck in water and at the same time claiming all will be well.

My sister inlaw's kid is like that. He'll sit anywhere as long as there is food.

[serenitynow]

Pertaining to the title of this thread, I imagine Bangkok has dodged this flood. Since the article came out there has been a 4 day period (which is the longest period of no rain since this rainy season has begun) of no rain here in the north. Seems Bangkok has dodged a bullet, but if it has it was just luck.

Edited September 19, 2011 by serenitynow

[moe666]

First of all Hi, I'm new here, and new to the BKK expat community....

Secondly, that was a horribly written article; tangles syntax, incomprehensible figures, full of subordinate clauses - a total journalistic train wreck. It'd be far more useful if they could express the date in percentages, and contextualise by suggesting deviation from the norm.

The basic fact that seems to be missing is what happened last time a similar quantity of water arrived in BKK, and have things since improved or worsened ? Can anyone tell me what we may expect, and indeed what preparations would be prudent ?

Calm down, writers first language not English, and there is translation issues. Many of the people who post here are not native english speakers or writers. Your visits here will be more enjoyable if you leave the english lesson at home.