Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[boracic]

A lot of comments about a miserable Thai education system.

But ask a typical high school senior in the USA "who was Hitler?" and then note the response... heck, ask 100 of them...

You'll be surprised. Well, maybe some of you won't be...

Have you ever seen the Jay Leno stuff asking people about 2nd Grade level knowledge , One woman, he pointed to the Stars and Stripes, and asked her "How many Stars?"'

"How can I tell when it is blowing about" was her answer.

Ignorance can be quite universal

Edited September 27, 2011 by boracic

[rmacdon61]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

We learn from our past, not your or mlne, but the past. This is an opportunity for thais to learn and join the 21st century.

[clip]

She was followed by a procession of pupils dressed as SS guards - brandishing plastic machine guns.

SICK, I'm lost for words but that is sick

you have to lighten up a bit

[phetaroi]

The swastika is a religious symbol, from India copied by the nazi's. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika Together with lack of historical knowledge this probably led to the students not being aware of what they were doing.

I once borrowed "Shindlers List" to a headmaster. He was schocked and showed the movie to his students, so i gave the DVD to him and he wanted to see more movies about the holocast.

Maybe someone can send a DVD to this school.

You, and others of your thinking, need to stop making excuses for Thai people. Thai people are accused of a lot of things on this website that are unreasonable and unfair. And I have sometimes been called an apologist for Thai people myself. But there is a line beyond which one should stop making excuses. Especially if you have any respect for Thai people.

Isn't having enough knowledge to teach a concept or factual information a rather basic standard for a teacher? Isn't supervising student activities a basic standard for a teacher? Or are you excusing Thai teachers from being competent and having an internationally recognized international standard of effectiveness?

Isn't knowing what the students of your school are going to do at a PUBLIC ceremony a rather standard level of competence for a school administrator? Shouldn't school administrators know what their teachers are teaching?

There was a time you might excuse a level of ignorance in a small, third-world school. But, people on this forum frequently remind us that Thailand isn't a third world country anymore. Teachers and modern students ought to know about one of the seminal events in world history...a little thing called World War II...in which Thailand was actively involved.

And there's one other reason these Thai teachers shouldn't be excused. A little thing called the internet, which links Thailand with the world at the touch of an on switch. And having visited Thai schools in Bangkok and upcountry, accompanied by officials of the Thai Education Ministry, most Thai teachers have access to the internet. And even if they don't, they shouldn't be teaching a concept or a fact they don't know. If you can find out the basic design of a Nazi uniform, if you can find out how Hitler trimmed his mustache, then it's no harder to find out the basics of what Hitler and the Nazis did.

Signed,

A life-long school teacher/school administrator

[WarpSpeed]

I don't know too many people in the UK or US who know much about the history of other countries unless it was related to their own history.

i thought it was related to their history,.... wern't japan part of the axis ?..........with ?

Yes, a lot of twisted perspectives and goal post moving going on here..

[osiboy]

My wife (of two years) is making fish cakes as we speak, which are excellent by the way, but I digress.

After reading this thread I thought I'd ask her, as despite having a high school education she has always seemed very ignorant of history and geography.

"Have you heard of the Nazis?"

"NASA? Yes, one of the things in the sky fell down yesterday"

"No, Nazis. They killed lots of Jews in the Holocaust, and many, many other people in World War II"

"I don't know about Jews"

"What about Hitler?"

"What Hitler?"

I'm reaching OMG status by now. The conversation continued and her knowledge of WWII is limited to the Japanese, the Burma Railway and the fact that Australians were there.

There you go. I should add however that she is a wonderful person who doesn't display many of the characteristics that are often portrayed here as being "typical Thai" - profoundly selfish, devoid of morals, only after money etc. Just a victim of a crappy education system. Rest assured I shall be addressing the situation. She is at least aware now that WWII wiped out almost 4 times the population of Thailand (which was about 15 million in 1940). She'll be on a virtual tour of Auschwitz this evening. At least there will be one more Thai aware of what happened.

I must say I'm pretty amazed.

Ok so without googling it tell us what you know about Guerre franco-thaïlandaise and while you are at it what was Phibun's real name?

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but 99% of those who amazed at Thais for not knowing who Hitler was should look at themselves.

There is simply a huge void between East and West and what events in history are/were important to one is of little interest to the other.

Because of where we come and our countries involvment Hitler is very much to the fore when it comes to the most evil man who ever lived.

The mention of his name makes your skin crawl, yet mention Mengistu Haile Mariam to the ordinary man on the street in the UK and he'll say "WHO?"

We should not expect Thai people to know what we know without knowing what they know. Not unless you think you are some sort of superior being

i dont expect thais to know about the 100 yrs war too, as it was rgional,....but we are talking about WWII ,

[osiboy]

My wife (of two years) is making fish cakes as we speak, which are excellent by the way, but I digress.

After reading this thread I thought I'd ask her, as despite having a high school education she has always seemed very ignorant of history and geography.

"Have you heard of the Nazis?"

"NASA? Yes, one of the things in the sky fell down yesterday"

"No, Nazis. They killed lots of Jews in the Holocaust, and many, many other people in World War II"

"I don't know about Jews"

"What about Hitler?"

"What Hitler?"

I'm reaching OMG status by now. The conversation continued and her knowledge of WWII is limited to the Japanese, the Burma Railway and the fact that Australians were there.

There you go. I should add however that she is a wonderful person who doesn't display many of the characteristics that are often portrayed here as being "typical Thai" - profoundly selfish, devoid of morals, only after money etc. Just a victim of a crappy education system. Rest assured I shall be addressing the situation. She is at least aware now that WWII wiped out almost 4 times the population of Thailand (which was about 15 million in 1940). She'll be on a virtual tour of Auschwitz this evening. At least there will be one more Thai aware of what happened.

I must say I'm pretty amazed.

Ok so without googling it tell us what you know about Guerre franco-thaïlandaise and while you are at it what was Phibun's real name?

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but 99% of those who amazed at Thais for not knowing who Hitler was should look at themselves.

There is simply a huge void between East and West and what events in history are/were important to one is of little interest to the other.

Because of where we come and our countries involvment Hitler is very much to the fore when it comes to the most evil man who ever lived.

The mention of his name makes your skin crawl, yet mention Mengistu Haile Mariam to the ordinary man on the street in the UK and he'll say "WHO?"

We should not expect Thai people to know what we know without knowing what they know. Not unless you think you are some sort of superior being

i dont expect thais to know about the 100 yrs war too, as it was rgional,....but we are talking about WWII , and they were affected by it ,

[MaxYakov]

A lot of comments about a miserable Thai education system.

But ask a typical high school senior in the USA "who was Hitler?" and then note the response... heck, ask 100 of them...

You'll be surprised. Well, maybe some of you won't be...

Have you ever seen the Jay Leno stuff asking people about 2nd Grade level knowledge , One woman, he pointed to the Stars and Stripes, and asked her "How many Stars?"'

"How can I tell when it is blowing about" was her answer.

Ignorance can be quite universal

What? She didn't yell out '57!"?

[osiboy]

My wife (of two years) is making fish cakes as we speak, which are excellent by the way, but I digress.

After reading this thread I thought I'd ask her, as despite having a high school education she has always seemed very ignorant of history and geography.

"Have you heard of the Nazis?"

"NASA? Yes, one of the things in the sky fell down yesterday"

"No, Nazis. They killed lots of Jews in the Holocaust, and many, many other people in World War II"

"I don't know about Jews"

"What about Hitler?"

"What Hitler?"

I'm reaching OMG status by now. The conversation continued and her knowledge of WWII is limited to the Japanese, the Burma Railway and the fact that Australians were there.

There you go. I should add however that she is a wonderful person who doesn't display many of the characteristics that are often portrayed here as being "typical Thai" - profoundly selfish, devoid of morals, only after money etc. Just a victim of a crappy education system. Rest assured I shall be addressing the situation. She is at least aware now that WWII wiped out almost 4 times the population of Thailand (which was about 15 million in 1940). She'll be on a virtual tour of Auschwitz this evening. At least there will be one more Thai aware of what happened.

I must say I'm pretty amazed.

Ok so without googling it tell us what you know about Guerre franco-thaïlandaise and while you are at it what was Phibun's real name?

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but 99% of those who amazed at Thais for not knowing who Hitler was should look at themselves.

There is simply a huge void between East and West and what events in history are/were important to one is of little interest to the other.

Because of where we come and our countries involvment Hitler is very much to the fore when it comes to the most evil man who ever lived.

The mention of his name makes your skin crawl, yet mention Mengistu Haile Mariam to the ordinary man on the street in the UK and he'll say "WHO?"

We should not expect Thai people to know what we know without knowing what they know. Not unless you think you are some sort of superior being

the difference is they are regional conflicts like the 100 yrs war or the crimea war, i dont expect thais or any other asians to kno about them,..but we are talking about a WW Here, and they were affected by it, bangkok was even bombed ! ............not a fair comparison, and ask most thais what the victory monumet is for ......you'll be amazed !

[boracic]

National Geographic, Discovery, History and one of the Thai True channels repeatedly show WWII history. I guess they have little appeal,,why should they ? and they are dubbed into Thai sometimes.

Edited September 27, 2011 by boracic

[transam]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

It's dim wits like you that don't realize that you are here cos your country men gave their lives so you could live. If you are sick about folk dying for you then l feel sorry for you. Perhaps your new mobile phone is more important or where you can fly off too for your holidays this year eh. Hmmmm, all courtesy of those who died for you.

[peecee]

This is very strange and is smacks of total ignorance of WWII history and Nazi Germany. Don't these teachers read? If I am not mistaken, this is NOT the first time it has happened in Thailand.

If you were part of the NAZI's axis of evil in the 1940's then you would tend to keep it quiet from the next generation wouldn't you?

[rebo]

The girl in the photo looks more like Taksin.

There appear to be several Thaksins in these new photos which seem to demolish the idea that staff at the school did not know

http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=445

Would be too interested to see the poster (with the Nazism headline) in detail. I think I was not totally wrong assuming some political background of this event ...

And when I do not believe one thing at all then it is the story of the unaware teaching staff / administration ...

Now I found the poster in detail here: http://prachatai.com/journal/2011/09/37093. If we find out who the 9 gentlemen are we are probably closer to an answer to the question wheather this happening was really only a silly student fun or of a more "adult" kind ...

[MaxYakov]

There are instances of kids all over the globe who have dressed in Nazi gear ... wasn't there a prince in England who wore a Nazi uniform for fun as an adult? Does this mean the entire UK education system is broken and the population uneducated?

But if this topic helps those whose only self esteem comes from feeling superior to people in a developing nation ... more power to them.

God forbid some people here use any logical sense at all to know there was absolutely no hatred or negative views being expressed by these kids ... but don't let that stop you from expressing your faux outrage and faux feelings of superiority.

I guess you two missed the images of the (at least) 5 meter, vertical banners, one that displayed Nazi aircraft, both civilian and military Nazis as well Hitler arrayed with automatic weapons. If it weren't the kids who produced those banners, who did? Albert Speer back from the dead?

Edited September 27, 2011 by MaxYakov

[blacksuitdandruff]

this story reminds me....

i've looking to buy a black t-shirt with the nazi sign. i've seen some cats wearing it about town and have had the hardest time finding one. any suggestions where? can't wear this back home, but here it's a full go....lak kun amazing/miracle thailand, lak kun.

[Kananga]

This is very strange and is smacks of total ignorance of WWII history and Nazi Germany. Don't these teachers read? If I am not mistaken, this is NOT the first time it has happened in Thailand.

If you were part of the NAZI's axis of evil in the 1940's then you would tend to keep it quiet from the next generation wouldn't you?

You mean keep it quiet by parading around school as Nazis?

[TechnikaIII]

A lot of comments about a miserable Thai education system.

But ask a typical high school senior in the USA "who was Hitler?" and then note the response... heck, ask 100 of them...

You'll be surprised. Well, maybe some of you won't be...

Shame on their parents then....

"Shame on their parents then." Bull s***

If you insist on them knowing who he was, I will insist that you also include the names and deeds of every other tyrant since then, and those in business now. And when you have totally brought the students to their knees, throwing up, you can feel pleased with yourself.

It is time to move on. The perpetuation of the Hitler saga has been reduced to little more than an engine to drive the Jewish self pity and the billions the US throws at Israel, maintaining that country's disgusting military machine and expansion agenda.

[macknife]

I can tell you this right now that nobody at the school had any idea what costumes the students would wear until the day of the event, except for the students and the one or two teachers assigned to help them plan it. I know this is true because it's the same at any school I've ever worked at. Sports day is a big deal and all details are kept secret from everyone.

As for what the students know, I'm sure they know of Hitler and that he was the leader of Germany during WWII, but that's where it ends. WWII means very little to them except for what happened with the Japanese in their own country. Why should they know what happened to the Jews during WWII? Awful though it was, it has little to do with them. All you western people I'm sure know that many Allied troops died in Kanchanaburi, but how many know that 10 times more Thais died? Probably very few I'd imagine, why? because you didn't learn about that at school, as it had very little to do with the countries you all come from, well it works both ways I'm afraid.

Bottom line, it's just one of those misunderstandings that happen sometimes, get over it. The students didn't know any better, and perhaps the 1-2 teachers that did know, wouldn't have known the students would wear those costumes until it happened.

[peecee]

What chance do Thai children have of knowing what their fore-fathers did in a country were the media has no freedom of speech. Most Thai's have forgotten the 2nd world war as much of their recent history is not taught in school, history books have been heavily censored to obliterate any Thai involvement with their partners in the "axis of evil" .

It is still possible if you know were to look to see photo's of them celebrating the opening of the democracy monument with Japanese & ss officers all smiles.

The introduction of a constitutional monarchy in the '30's that preceded their involvement in the war and the regicide that followed soon after it's end, are not openly discussed by lecturers or teachers and villagers still speak in whispers about it some 50-odd years later.

[MaxYakov]

National Geographic, Discovery, History and one of the Thai True channels repeatedly show WWII history. I guess they have little appeal,,why should they ? and they are dubbed into Thai sometimes.

My Bangkok True Cable service has a Nat Geo channel that has been focusing on WWII for several months now. Recently the focus is on Hitler. All the programs have the English dubbed-over to Thai without even English subtitles. This is probably available in Chang Mai and I can't help but wonder if it didn't inspire the administration at that school. I can't believe the students came up with quality and depth of the Nazi regalia on their own. It was a bad idea that's for sure.

Edited September 27, 2011 by MaxYakov

[Johpa]

God forbid some people here use any logical sense at all to know there was absolutely no hatred or negative views being expressed by these kids ... but don't let that stop you from expressing your faux outrage and faux feelings of superiority.

So there are at least two apologists for the abysmal decisions made by the adults running this school. Few, if any posters, are blaming the kids. And response to this for many is neither false outrage nor false expressions of superiority. There are no excuses for this staged school activity. On the other hand, it is not the end of the world. It is an isolated event that is indeed deserving of condemnation.

[richardblanc]

BTW, most Jews in the world aren't Israelis.

Actually I believe you are wrong. Near 1/2 (over 40%) live in Israel and a very large number of Israelis hold dual citizenship and live elsewhere (mostly the US) because Israel grants citizenship to all Jewish persons (without having to apply for it, attend any ceremony, or swear any oath of allegiance) and allows dual citizenship.

False. Totally false. Please stop posting such blatant misinformation here. For a Jew to make Ayilah to Israel is a HUGE life event. There is a lot more to it than booking a flight. Except for the part about dual citizenship; that is allowed. But you aren't thinking logically even about that. 75 percent of Israeli Jews are native born. So of the rest of them living there, sure a lot of dual citizens. Now look at American Jews, what percentage of American Jews do you reckon are dual citizens of Israel?

why it.s more then 40%

[peecee]

This is very strange and is smacks of total ignorance of WWII history and Nazi Germany. Don't these teachers read? If I am not mistaken, this is NOT the first time it has happened in Thailand.

If you were part of the NAZI's axis of evil in the 1940's then you would tend to keep it quiet from the next generation wouldn't you?

You mean keep it quiet by parading around school as Nazis?

The teachers were not told anything about ww2 involvement at uni, so how could they know any different when instructing there students?

[Kananga]

I can tell you this right now that nobody at the school had any idea what costumes the students would wear until the day of the event, except for the students and the one or two teachers assigned to help them plan it. I know this is true because it's the same at any school I've ever worked at. Sports day is a big deal and all details are kept secret from everyone.

As for what the students know, I'm sure they know of Hitler and that he was the leader of Germany during WWII, but that's where it ends. WWII means very little to them except for what happened with the Japanese in their own country. Why should they know what happened to the Jews during WWII? Awful though it was, it has little to do with them. All you western people I'm sure know that many Allied troops died in Kanchanaburi, but how many know that 10 times more Thais died? Probably very few I'd imagine, why? because you didn't learn about that at school, as it had very little to do with the countries you all come from, well it works both ways I'm afraid.

Bottom line, it's just one of those misunderstandings that happen sometimes, get over it. The students didn't know any better, and perhaps the 1-2 teachers that did know, wouldn't have known the students would wear those costumes until it happened.

Approximately 7,600 Thais died in WW2. 16,000 allied troops on the Burma railway alone. If you are going to lecture us all get your facts straight.

[lannarebirth]

I can tell you this right now that nobody at the school had any idea what costumes the students would wear until the day of the event, except for the students and the one or two teachers assigned to help them plan it. I know this is true because it's the same at any school I've ever worked at. Sports day is a big deal and all details are kept secret from everyone.

As for what the students know, I'm sure they know of Hitler and that he was the leader of Germany during WWII, but that's where it ends. WWII means very little to them except for what happened with the Japanese in their own country. Why should they know what happened to the Jews during WWII? Awful though it was, it has little to do with them. All you western people I'm sure know that many Allied troops died in Kanchanaburi, but how many know that 10 times more Thais died? Probably very few I'd imagine, why? because you didn't learn about that at school, as it had very little to do with the countries you all come from, well it works both ways I'm afraid.

Bottom line, it's just one of those misunderstandings that happen sometimes, get over it. The students didn't know any better, and perhaps the 1-2 teachers that did know, wouldn't have known the students would wear those costumes until it happened.

I'd go along with most of that if it weren't for the fact that I've seen a couple of pictures of adults in full Nazi regalia as well. Who are they, parents or teachers?

[Nisa]

There are instances of kids all over the globe who have dressed in Nazi gear ... wasn't there a prince in England who wore a Nazi uniform for fun as an adult? Does this mean the entire UK education system is broken and the population uneducated?

But if this topic helps those whose only self esteem comes from feeling superior to people in a developing nation ... more power to them.

God forbid some people here use any logical sense at all to know there was absolutely no hatred or negative views being expressed by these kids ... but don't let that stop you from expressing your faux outrage and faux feelings of superiority.

I guess you two missed the images of the (at least) 5 meter, vertical banners, one that displayed Nazi aircraft, both civilian and military Nazis as well Hitler arrayed with automatic weapons. If it weren't the kids who produced those banners, who did? Albert Speer back from the dead?

Who really gives a sh@t?

Although anyone with any knowledge of Thais and their culture certainly know there was no ill intent by the kids, why give a sh@t even if it turned out to be a racist school who sees Hitler as a hero. There are nut bag groups all over the world and there isn't a day that goes by in the US somebody isn't (including local governments) isn't flying a confederate flag or there isn't somebody wearing nazi gear or putting on a white hooded sheet. So many people here scream about censorship and lack of freedom of speech in Thailand but these same people are outraged now because they don't agree with freedom of speech if it goes against their claimed principles (which usually always happen to work to condemn Thais as a whole for incidents of a few).

Who really gives a rat's @ss if Thailand teaches WWI or WWII history (can't teach one properly without the other) and the effects it had on other nations and people. As Ali said re: the Vietnam war; "No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger" and I'm sure Thais can say something very similar about the Nazis. Truth be told, Thais don't teach too much about war, especially those in the last century, in low school period ... and this may be a good thing. We can learn all we want about the past but history always has a way of repeating itself and people always seem to find a way of using the past to improve methods of killing and control.

The bottom line is the majority of posters here claiming some true insult by this incident are full of it and simply just latching onto another excuse to slam Thais because of their own feelings of inadequacy & insecurities here. Based on the ease in which some condemn an entire nation of people, I would be surprised to find that many of the posters feigning outrage here are not themselves bigots and racists who speak negatively of Jews.

Is this a news worthy event? Of course it is but certainly nothing for anyone to get worked up about if the context is explained and there is an awareness of Thai culture. Probably why the story has not really gone global even though the likes of Fox and others love to slant any story to get people worked up.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Nisa

[MaxYakov]

The swastika is a religious symbol, from India copied by the nazi's. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika Together with lack of historical knowledge this probably led to the students not being aware of what they were doing.

I once borrowed "Shindlers List" to a headmaster. He was schocked and showed the movie to his students, so i gave the DVD to him and he wanted to see more movies about the holocast.

Maybe someone can send a DVD to this school.

You, and others of your thinking, need to stop making excuses for Thai people. Thai people are accused of a lot of things on this website that are unreasonable and unfair. And I have sometimes been called an apologist for Thai people myself. But there is a line beyond which one should stop making excuses. Especially if you have any respect for Thai people.

Isn't having enough knowledge to teach a concept or factual information a rather basic standard for a teacher? Isn't supervising student activities a basic standard for a teacher? Or are you excusing Thai teachers from being competent and having an internationally recognized international standard of effectiveness?

Isn't knowing what the students of your school are going to do at a PUBLIC ceremony a rather standard level of competence for a school administrator? Shouldn't school administrators know what their teachers are teaching?

There was a time you might excuse a level of ignorance in a small, third-world school. But, people on this forum frequently remind us that Thailand isn't a third world country anymore. Teachers and modern students ought to know about one of the seminal events in world history...a little thing called World War II...in which Thailand was actively involved.

And there's one other reason these Thai teachers shouldn't be excused. A little thing called the internet, which links Thailand with the world at the touch of an on switch. And having visited Thai schools in Bangkok and upcountry, accompanied by officials of the Thai Education Ministry, most Thai teachers have access to the internet. And even if they don't, they shouldn't be teaching a concept or a fact they don't know. If you can find out the basic design of a Nazi uniform, if you can find out how Hitler trimmed his mustache, then it's no harder to find out the basics of what Hitler and the Nazis did.

Signed,

A life-long school teacher/school administrator

A voice of sanity on this thread. Thank You!

[somchaismith]

Since when does Thailand have anti-discrimination or anti-racial hatred laws?

If At First You Don't Succeed, Keep FAILing.

[Jingthing]

A lot of comments about a miserable Thai education system.

But ask a typical high school senior in the USA "who was Hitler?" and then note the response... heck, ask 100 of them...

You'll be surprised. Well, maybe some of you won't be...

Shame on their parents then....

"Shame on their parents then." Bull s***

If you insist on them knowing who he was, I will insist that you also include the names and deeds of every other tyrant since then, and those in business now. And when you have totally brought the students to their knees, throwing up, you can feel pleased with yourself.

It is time to move on. The perpetuation of the Hitler saga has been reduced to little more than an engine to drive the Jewish self pity and the billions the US throws at Israel, maintaining that country's disgusting military machine and expansion agenda.

Expansion agenda? Have you looked at a map of the middle east, Arab vs. Jewish lands? How much "expansion" do you worry about from a people that is a tiny fraction of one percent of the world, who don't seek converts, who often breed at weak levels, who intermarry widely, and who were historically recent victims of a mass genocide?

I agree there are a lot of ignorant American schoolkids as well, but hopefully their TEACHERS are doing better.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Jingthing

[Kananga]

This is very strange and is smacks of total ignorance of WWII history and Nazi Germany. Don't these teachers read? If I am not mistaken, this is NOT the first time it has happened in Thailand.

If you were part of the NAZI's axis of evil in the 1940's then you would tend to keep it quiet from the next generation wouldn't you?

You mean keep it quiet by parading around school as Nazis?

The teachers were not told anything about ww2 involvement at uni, so how could they know any different when instructing there students?

But if they were not taught about WW2 at Uni how did they know about Hitler and what uniforms to wear for the parade? Are you honestly expecting us to believe they knew who Hitler was, what he looked like, what the SS looked like, but not what they did? HA!