Cops... The Difference?

roadsaints · October 8, 2011

hey guys... anybody knows how to tell the difference between normal cops and the traffic cops? (apart from them wearing the vest that says traffice police?) the reason i'm asking is because a couple of days back i was stopped at hway kwang by a member of the BIB. I tried to get away with it by using the "me farang, no speak thai... english please?" while handing him my international licence and my driving licence. He tried his best to gesture that i had no helmet on (but seriously come on, i was 50m from home and in the small sois, i do it thai style) and that my bike was modified, the exhaust was too loud. no negotiation, kept my licence and wrote me a fine for B1000 and asked me to pay immediately at the police station behind.

So i noticed some of the BIB don't bother when i ride pass them without a helmet or my noisy exhaust... and some of them actually do stop motorists. i'm confused... so who should i look out for in order to keep my money in the wallet? and is there a way to negotiate with them on the spot?

yes i do know if i change my exhaust it will do the trick but being cheeky at times is pretty fun...

thanks all!

poanoi · October 8, 2011

There is a premium to drive illegally, i think you got away cheap, to my knowledge it's 2000 for pipes and 400 for helmet

ib1b4 · October 9, 2011

Seriously come on, you break the law for fun ,try the dumb farang routine and expect to get away with it.It seems to me that you were not pretending to be dumb! must come natutal I would suspect?

roadsaints · October 9, 2011

could be the genes daddy gave me? but in my defence i thought it was worth a shot. cheers!

richard_smith237 · October 9, 2011

I'm not sure your user name is appropriate...

To your misfortune you encountered a police officer who was capable of thinking for himself....

You were knowingly in the wrong. Not being stopped for it before is not really an intelligent excuse.

Not wearing the helmet is your choice and only effects you.

Loud pipes is antisocial and the noise effects others.

All that said - You'll possibly get stopped more from now on as you are possibly now a known source of revenue. A good idea might be to get legal ASAP, you now have to plant the seed that you are not an easy mark so that when you are next pulled over by policemen from the same area you can maintain your innocence, refuse the fine and at least make it a little difficult for them.

BigBikeBKK · October 9, 2011

You made the mistake of stopping...

wana · October 9, 2011

(i do it thai style )

thats where you went wrong, dont think you have equal or even similar rights to a thai person as far as being in thailand is concerned

ive seen entire thai famalies ( 2 adults ,2 kids ) with no helmet on a ancient old honda wave being waved through a checkpoint only for a farang in full riding gear to be stopped ,searched ,hassled and fined in a typical ratchada rd rollover

my friend was fined once for wearing a mirrored visor that was "illegal"

he protested because they are selling them in the BIG C

the cop gets angry and goes and get the book of "THE LAW" from his pickup and showed him some paragraph about it

they were going to keep him there all day until he paid so in the end he cracked and gave them a 500 note so he could get home

BigBikeBKK · October 9, 2011

Speaking of the "law book", next time some bent copper tries to do you for not being in the left lane, challenge them to show you the law in the "nangsu gotmai" that says motorcycles are restricted to the left lane. They can't because it doesn't exist

thaicbr · October 9, 2011

That's true enough.. But funny enough the dark visor law IS on the books happened about 2 years ago... also to the OP have you not seen the 100% helmet posters all over the place? By 1st January next year 100% of riders in Thailand will be wearing helmets. Not sure if that will be achieved but certainly in my area Nakhon Pathom/ Bkk border most riders are wearing helmets.

Ride safe

poanoi · October 9, 2011

I have a tip on the lazy helmet thing:

any helmet will stay on without tying a rope under the jaw at 50 km/h

and some helmets will stay on up to 100 km/h with some extra cushion inside the helmet to make it tight, i was never charged for not tying the rope

RusticCharm · October 9, 2011

The difference between normal cops and traffic cops? Normal cops are corrupt. Traffic cops are even more corrupt.

Just don't stop for them.

nikster · October 9, 2011

If you're not wearing a helmet in CM, at least keep a cheapo one on your bike so when you see police you can put the helmet on.

Last time I went through town I counted 5 helmet stops. I don't think the "stupid farang" routine works at all but if you did get away with that a few times then maybe you're just really good at it

wantan · October 9, 2011

Shit, i just took my Boxer 250 for a short spin around the block and saw a cop laying on the street having a bad accident with his Boxer 200. I wish him all the best and hope its not as bad as it was looking.

Pictures like these always remind me to better take it slowly.

Have a safe sunday ride!

nikster · October 9, 2011

I'd like to point out that that will only work as long as not too many people do it. If too many people do it, they'll find ways to deal with that. Guaranteed. They now usually have people in place to deal with the Thai U-turners...

And yes I've done it in CM at least 2 times. As a variation of the "stupid farang" trick... I kind of looked the other way and pretended not to see them at all and / or having no clue what these nice gentlemen could possibly want from me... using the Vespa as a getaway bike is not really a great feeling though as it accelerates like a donkey on Valium. On the big bike I always have a helmet...

BigBikeBKK · October 9, 2011

Aye, but you don't have to deal with the rampant police corruption and greed that we have here in Bangkok.

I've found most Thai cops outside of Bangkok and Pattaya to be generally quite friendly and helpful.

I don't know any Thais that respect Bangkok traffic police...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoMR8Lkw_sk

etc etc :jap:

roadsaints · October 9, 2011

thanks all for the replies and comments. i have since taken the advice of many and gone back to my legal pipe. anyway, let's say i do not stop for them and look the other way and ride away... what is likely to happen? will they jump me the next time they see me? appear at my door etc? oh and yes, now even if i go 10m away from home i wear my helmet...

wana · October 9, 2011

.38 caliber round through the back of the head ......100%

roadsaints · October 9, 2011

really?! i heard of people getting a baton to the head but a bullet? overkill?

thaicbr · October 9, 2011

Dohhh.. yeah.

sbk · October 9, 2011

One obscenity laden flame and a post responding to that flame removed. Keep it civil and mind your manners.

nikster · October 9, 2011

-> Crazy video... true that BKK police is quite another level of corruption. In fact the few times I've had to interact with CM police they were very polite and by the book. They still make their money as they get 50% of all fines anyway - but they only fine for actual traffic offenses.

Whereas in BKK I think the two or three times the wife was stopped, it was always some BS reason with bribes on the spot. "changing lanes too late" was my favorite...

ib1b4 · October 10, 2011

I was stopped at a on saturday at a random check point by mobile traffic police,before I had even put my side stand down he saw the bikes registration label and said (OK OK can go}. And this has always been the sanario for me when riding [NEVER BEEN FINED} maybe it is the type of bike that I ride? not sure, but driving my car,well that is a completely different story I have lost count how many fines I have paid out, This only applies while in Thailand. Happy riding

Edited October 10, 2011 by ib1b4

poanoi · October 10, 2011

Really !?!??

I thought bikes was particularly targeted.

Do you mid give some info what the fines was about ?

and where it happened ?

floridaguy · October 10, 2011

Because you have seen this? Happened to you right? Don't run from the law, but getting shot doesn't happen 100%. Obviously, as Nikster said he has done it and he is still here with us.

poanoi · October 10, 2011

It was on news some months ago a thai car driver didnt have a plate, he went into argument with a police that wanted to fine him, he went back to his car, had his wife next to him and started to drive off,

the police took up his gun and shot the driver dead through the car in the back

wana · October 10, 2011

of course they dont normally shoot people for failing to stop....

even if they did fire a shot you honestly think they could get everybody 100% of the time ?

i heard a thai was shot in the back last year for blowing through a drugs checkpoint on a motorbike but thats unverifiable information since the police dont publish stories about their activities

i have on occasion been traveling at speed in lane 3/4 when they have been stopping slower moving motorists in lane 1 and fining bikes for being in the other lanes etc but in my defence i didnt see them until it was too late to stop and going back against the flow of traffic to see what they were waving about may have caused an accident

BigBikeBKK · October 10, 2011

Trigger happy pigs exist everywhere, but cases of Thai traffic cops shooting motorists are pretty rare.

I'd take a jai yen yen sabai sabai Thai traffic cop over an agro trigger happy American pig any day of the week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECHAH-EIASM

katabeachbum · October 10, 2011

HighwayPolice or traffic police are not known to shoot in TH. However when a cop pulls you over, it might be a gun or drug check, and they do fire on runners

ScubaBuddha · October 11, 2011

Having spent several years in law enforcement in the states in a previous life I am curious as to the differences in Thai law and U.S. law thus over the years I have done a fair bit of reading on Thai law, as well has had numerous discussions with police and lawyers here. (www.thailawforum.com is an excellent resource) I also spent 2 days at a Highway Police Volunteer Seminar which was also informative, at least the parts I understood or had translated.

To answer the OP's question, attempting to identify what cop to avoid and which to not worry about is futile. Any sworn Royal Thai police officer in any division or branch (traffic, patrol, crime suppression etc.) or any department (Highway Police, Marine Police, Immigration Police, Tourist Police etc) can stop you when they see a violation. The only divisions or departments who are mandated to enforce traffic laws are traffic police branch of the Royal Thai Police and the separate Highway Police division, but that doesn't exclude other officers from stopping you if they want to. The Thai and on occasion foreign volunteers you see at the checkpoints are working under direct supervision and thus have police powers same as a regular BIB. To make it more confusing there are also OrBorTor and Tombon (district or municipal) police which can look very much like Royal Thai police, but are not sworn officers. Some may even carry a gun but they are the equivalent to a security guard, but work closely with the RTP and can also be helping at checkpoints.

Leaving corruption out of the equation for a moment (silly, I know), what I have not yet been able to confirm beyond a doubt is whether or not a sworn Thai police officer has the right to randomly stop you without cause (no infraction seen by the officer) and conduct a search of any kind, even if it's just to confirm you are licensed or not. This is evidenced by the scores of often helmetless and presumably unlicensed people who choose to stop short of a police check point to wait it out, sometimes by less then 50m, in plain view of the police yet go unmolested. Now, if you choose to go through the checkpoint, then you are in essence giving consent to be stopped and searched. But I believe strongly that if you are wearing your helmet (without a tinted visor) and have a license plate and tax disk visible and have no other obvious infractions, you are free to make a legal u-turn, or stop short of the checkpoint and wait it out as is so common the practice, but I have yet to find a source to confirm this. The cops here rely on people being stupid, and most people are when it comes to law.

On the topic of running the checkpoints, it's not standard procedure to shoot at checkpoint runners, but it has happened. There are even fleeing felon laws still on the books in the states, but over the years most courts have concluded there needs to be evidence the fleeing felon is extremely likely to immediately threaten another life. More often the cops in Thailand use a less lethal method to stop or at least discourage runners. The tossing of a traffic cone in the bikes path has been reported as a favorite. Getting a smack on the helmet with a ticket book is another. (Tony can insert his video here) But usually they won't bother with you, as there are plenty of easier fish in the sea. Police in Thailand don't generally get into high speed pursuits, but rather mobilize via radio if they are after someone.

The case of the US cop Tony showed above, the cop was sent to prison for that. Completely unprovoked. The cop was an idiot and should not have been carrying a gun, same as the more recent case of the BART cop Johannes Mehserle who shot a detained man in the back as he lay on the ground. Stupid shit happens when stupid people get all spun and have a gun in their hand.

On the topic of motorcycles keeping left, it is largely a myth. The statute states that ALL vehicles need to keep left unless passing or if the left lane is less than a certain width, or is impassable. There is no law (that I can find) stating motorcycles have to keep to the left side of an individual lane, but as we all know if you don't, the car or truck behind you will get as close as possible to your rear wheel until you do.

.

Thai_Traffic_Laws.pdf

Edited October 11, 2011 by ScubaBuddha

wana · October 11, 2011

they have caught on to most tricks by now

i notice they put a small block in place in the side streets now to catch people who turn left as they spot a main checkpoint up ahead

i always thought the ones with the guns are sworn officers and are legally allowed to do almost anything

the ones that only carry a baton and handcuffs and a slightly differnt uniform without a red band on the sleeve ,these were the "powerless volunteers"

theres so many divisions and departments its hard to know whos real and who isnt

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