Teach Thai Students To Use English, Expert Says

[Centrum]

as an expat i would really like to do something for the thai kids, however since i am not a native english speaker, i did not so far offer my help.

native english speaker seems to be the trend. still i know that english speaking thai are often understanding my english much better than

that one of native speakers with their many different idiomatic spellings. i was working all my life as an international had to be understood by

many other nationals with poor english skills,,,this made me a much better (in the sense of beeing understood) english speaking

farang than many native speakers. to be close to real life many non native english speakers would be excellently qualified for what this teacher is

speaking about. saying this, i think to widen the base would make it for many poor schools easier to find somebody helping them with english for free.

however as said before the ball is with us farangs, we will have to do the first step, the school will not by herself looking for help and may only

accept native english speakers

I read this post with an Indian accent going on in my head.

I would guess you haven't convinced too many people here that you are easier to understand that a native speaker.

Of course, one of the realities of the 'retired geezers with free time on their hands' participating in English lessons is that the majority have no training in teaching a language.

It's all fine to say "just stand up in front of the class and tell them about your war stories" but the children need to be engaged and encouraged to use English.

Leave the retired guys in the bars teaching bargirls how to ask for taxi money, et.

[petedk]

I know several students who graduated from this particular university and they are all excellent at grammar. They can point out the different parts of a sentence etc. They are taught lots of academic reading and writing and also able to name all the parts of Thai temple and describe the architecture in English but when I said to one of them "See you at half-past-nine", she didn't understand what i was saying. I had to say "nine thirty".

Maybe I am exaggerating a little but a lot of these English majors graduate and don't know how to say large numbers, tell the time or give directions even thought they are capable of reading and understanding academic literature.

Another example was at a five star hotel which was being renovated. The workers were using a hammer drill non stop at about 18.30 so I politely asked at reception what time the work would stop. She replied to me "At one-o-clock". (For non Thai speakers she meant 7pm).

In the restaurant I heard some Arabs order a soft drink only to be asked "You wa eye?". The poor guy asked three or four times what she meant but each time she just said "you wa eye". I had to go and help and explained she was asking "Would you like ice?".

These are just examples of basic English that should be taught to people wanting to work in the service industry or have contact with foreigners.

I must admit that the majority of English major students from that university are quite good and can hold a reasonable conversation with foreigners.

[SAffer]

"The language class should be fun and fresh. And importantly, the teachers must understand that each student is different," she said. "Teachers must know how best to develop the potential of each student."

Of course, you can't learn anything if it's not 'fun'. Every lesson at school and university for me was so much fun. If it hadn't been fun, I would have lost concentration and failed.

Maybe the 'fun police' could come in and observe English classes. If the classes are not 'fun', they can make fun police arrests.

In Israel you can learn to speak and write Hebrew in 3 months... it's a course called Ulpan. It is not fun at all, but it works.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

What a load of baloney. She says and I quote

""Language classes must focus on content relevant to learners' daily lives. The content must be practical," she said."

Wake up people you don't need English to plant rice or work on a assembly line.

If people choose to go into a career that requires English make it available for them. No need to teach the cook in a Thai diner how to speak English.

You da baloney!

Teach everyone a basic level of decent English and then those that are intelligent and ambitious enough will at least have a chance to break out of their current "low class" status, rather than being locked into it for life.

However I unfortunately think this is exactly why the Thai education system is so poor - those with money send their kids to good private schools, the true elite overseas so what do they care? An upwardly mobile lower/middle class only threatens an elite based on anything but true merit and achievement.

And BTW I'd really like to find a diner here, could you please recommend a good any one at all?

[SAffer]

I do not think great effort needs to be spent on teaching kids to speak English. I think the time needs to be spent on teaching them to read and understand written english and to write it to some extent. The focus should be on reading.

Spoken english is very hard to learn without exposure to good spoken english contantly.

The ability to read English enables access to a wide world of material a it is one of the international languages for bussiness and science.

What people are forgetting here is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to learn a second language without mastery over a first one. How many Thai students speak, read and write Thai properly?

You can't learn English grammar unless you have a competent understanding of your mother tongue's grammar; and the way Thai students are taught language (thai) in school is a big impediment; they are taught rote and only know the rules of Thai from memorization; no understanding of the concepts and structures present. No encouragement to be expressive in vocabulary spoken or written.

In addition; in order to transfer your thoughts and ideas into English it takes creativity in thinking; you can't just translate word for word what you want to say.

Beyond that; I hear all the time Thais saying things like the "s" sound in plurals in English is not important for Thais because Thai doesn't have these structures.

Bottom line is Thais will continue to speak the gobblety gook they mindlessly sputter and call it English; and if the rest of the world doesn't like it; screw em; we do it Thai style. TIT

I am not sure I agree with you. In South Africa, there are people who can't read or write any language (so certainly not masters of it), yet they are pretty good at speaking up to 5 languages, including English. I think 'Jack of all languages' is ok.

[khaowong1]

They should have adopted this approach years ago ... and I have always said that when they introduced the one child / one computer scheme some time back it should have been mandantory to learn to speak english as part of the program. !!

Years wasted when students could have been made to learn to speak proper english and then they would have opportunities to apply for jobs outside Thailand.

:jap:

Ahhh. Theres the rub. You see, if some educated Thai people found decent paying jobs outside Thailand, and that news started flowing back into Thailand, some people here might want more money than the big boys want to pay them. And you know the big boys surely don't want that. They will label this lady as a kook and keep on with things as they are.

[cpofc]

Meanwhile Hi Powered think tanks in Australia have recently been calling for urgent action in teaching Asian Languages in Australian Schools. It is a first class priority they say. Especially given the Island Continent's location and admitting that this is 'The Asian Century'. If it weren't for Asia Australia would be where the Yanks and Europeans are right now. Bankrupt and facing Recession/Depression.

Thailand is certainly not the only country in the world that has problems with its Ed System. Look at the USA

Unfortunately many TV Narks will just use this article to futher ridicule and kick the Thais.

When I went to High School (in Aust) French was compulsory for the first two years. Alot of good that did me. Not.

[Orgathai]

There are about 2000 Mandarin teachers, in Thailand.and that is only the official number, Chinese teachers provided a job by the Chinese Embassy.

[pomchop]

as an expat i would really like to do something for the thai kids, however since i am not a native english speaker, i did not so far offer my help.

native english speaker seems to be the trend. still i know that english speaking thai are often understanding my english much better than

that one of native speakers with their many different idiomatic spellings. i was working all my life as an international had to be understood by

many other nationals with poor english skills,,,this made me a much better (in the sense of beeing understood) english speaking

farang than many native speakers. to be close to real life many non native english speakers would be excellently qualified for what this teacher is

speaking about. saying this, i think to widen the base would make it for many poor schools easier to find somebody helping them with english for free.

however as said before the ball is with us farangs, we will have to do the first step, the school will not by herself looking for help and may only

accept native english speakers

I read this post with an Indian accent going on in my head.

I would guess you haven't convinced too many people here that you are easier to understand that a native speaker.

Of course, one of the realities of the 'retired geezers with free time on their hands' participating in English lessons is that the majority have no training in teaching a language.

It's all fine to say "just stand up in front of the class and tell them about your war stories" but the children need to be engaged and encouraged to use English.

Leave the retired guys in the bars teaching bargirls how to ask for taxi money, et.

Sorry but have to disagree...there are many farangs who are smart enough to figure out ways to get the students to at least try and speak english without having any formal training, especially when it is only one or two days a week. You can play all kinds of simple games..point to various body parts or things around the room and try and get them to say it in English...bring a bag from home full of everyday household items to hold up and see if they can say in English. Do a bit of role playing where they are working at a hotel desk and you are asking typical farang hotel questions...and best of all IF you speak a bit of Thai or think you do then try saying things in Thai and make the kids frist try and guess what you are saying and they of course will howl at your mispronunciation of thai...but then you make THEM tell you what you just said in ENGLISH...i think that seems to be fun for them and help them realize that even the farang doesn't speak all that great but still tries....plus you will very likely learn a bit of Thai for your efforts...or at least get a quick feedback on whether or not a thai kid can understand your thai... The key is to get them to try and SPEAK english....and frankly if you can teach a bar girl you can likely teach some thai kids. It is not all that difficult if you truly WANT to help. Yes you need to spend a few minutes and come up with some "plan" everyday but if you are not willing to even invest that much effort then I doubt you'd be there to begin with. There are plenty of retired guys sitting in the bars that will continue to sit in the bars . Nothing wrong with that but also nothing wrong with at least attempting to help if you are so inclined.

[pomchop]

There are tons of older retired expats living all over Thailand that are bored to death and IF IF it were easier to do I think many of them would be happy to volunteer to teach a day or two a week. The first thing though is for the schools to be able to provide x number of work permits for these people. The idea that you need a work permit to volunteer to help out a bunch of kids for NO PAY is not helping. Many if not most of the public schools in rural areas can NOT afford to hire a native english speaker so they have NONE.

If you truly want to help some thai kids learn english why not stop by a local public high school and ask to talk to the head of the English dept and see if they might be able to pull some strings to help you volunteer without any work permit hassles. ...you might be pleasantly surprised. Do not expect them to PAY you as they have very little money. In fact over time you will likely find that YOU will subsidize the kids a bit by buying supplies etc with YOUR money.

It would be great if the Thai Govt was not so harsh in regard to qualified 'ancient' expats wanting to help teach English on a volunteer basis. I have just obtained a 'long-stay' visa, and as I did not have a letter from a Thai school, I was not able to obtain a visa which would allow even volunteer teaching. Maybe while I'm 'retired' I can get the required letter and try again in a year's time.

Have you ever just tried to walk into a public high school, ask for the English dept head and tell them that you would like to volunteer to teach for free a day or two a week but you do not have a teaching work permit...you might be pleasantly surprised as some of them do have some connections that can make things happen...who knows maybe one of the govt workers who issues the permits just might have been one of the English dept heads students???....Sometimes in Thailand there are the rules and then there are THE rules.

[Kilgore Trout]

I do not think great effort needs to be spent on teaching kids to speak English. I think the time needs to be spent on teaching them to read and understand written english and to write it to some extent. The focus should be on reading.

Spoken english is very hard to learn without exposure to good spoken english contantly.

The ability to read English enables access to a wide world of material a it is one of the international languages for bussiness and science.

What people are forgetting here is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to learn a second language without mastery over a first one. How many Thai students speak, read and write Thai properly?

You can't learn English grammar unless you have a competent understanding of your mother tongue's grammar; and the way Thai students are taught language (thai) in school is a big impediment; they are taught rote and only know the rules of Thai from memorization; no understanding of the concepts and structures present. No encouragement to be expressive in vocabulary spoken or written.

In addition; in order to transfer your thoughts and ideas into English it takes creativity in thinking; you can't just translate word for word what you want to say.

Beyond that; I hear all the time Thais saying things like the "s" sound in plurals in English is not important for Thais because Thai doesn't have these structures.

Bottom line is Thais will continue to speak the gobblety gook they mindlessly sputter and call it English; and if the rest of the world doesn't like it; screw em; we do it Thai style. TIT

I am not sure I agree with you. In South Africa, there are people who can't read or write any language (so certainly not masters of it), yet they are pretty good at speaking up to 5 languages, including English. I think 'Jack of all languages' is ok.

Well, it seems that this "push" is intended to make students proficient enough to function in a job that requires English; which would mean proper spoken English as well as literacy skills; reading and writing.

How many of these illiterate Africans have good paying jobs requiring English skills?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

In Israel you can learn to speak and write Hebrew in 3 months... it's a course called Ulpan. It is not fun at all, but it works.

Yes, but you're dealing with well-educated, probably more intelligent, and highly motivated students who come from a culture that values hard work rather than avoiding it as much as possible.

If you take away all or even most of those factors and the same methods just don't work.

I'm not putting a good/bad slant on things here, I've very glad that Thailand has taught me to value my cultural brainwashing regarding life priorities, but such "paradigm issues" are fundamental.

If you want your students to learn you either need a very big stick (which goes away as they get older) or you need to make it fun.

Expecting them to be motivated to sacrifice short-term pleasure for long-term gain - well on this side of the pond that flies as well as a lead balloon.

And it doesn't necessarily make teaching harder except when the teacher doesn't want to change his/her methodologies to suit the needs of the students - and that to me defines a good teacher much more than formal qualifications.

For all those talking about allowing foreigners to volunteer their time, it's a great idea in principle - in my opinion just chatting in fractured English with any foreigner would serve the students better than what they're getting now.

But again, local cultural/political/realities work against such a scheme:

- it assumes the powers that be actually care about the education of the students

- what do they (TPTB) get out of it? no percentage in it for them in money or power, in fact it undermines both

- it isn't possible to allow the current local teachers of pseudo-English to lose so much face when everyone realizes

they (and their headmaster, and the officials in charge at the Ministry etc) actually can't speak much English

- this loophole would immediately start being abused so that foreigners are actually employed and being paid cash

under the table under the guise of "volunteering"

And of course it would help the government avoid one of the fundamental issues - the budgets must be expanded to **pay for** the required native speakers (much more than the bosses in the system make, never mind ordinary teachers) in order to have any real impact.

I'm afraid, just like corruption, this is a problem that won't be going away soon, no matter what posters here think say or do.

If you want to actually make a real difference, spend time and energy to get to know the locals and keep offering to help those who want it. When they finally see you really mean it you'll get some takers. And don't just target the pretty young ones either 8-)

[Utley]

There are tons of older retired expats living all over Thailand that are bored to death and IF IF it were easier to do I think many of them would be happy to volunteer to teach a day or two a week. The first thing though is for the schools to be able to provide x number of work permits for these people. The idea that you need a work permit to volunteer to help out a bunch of kids for NO PAY is not helping. Many if not most of the public schools in rural areas can NOT afford to hire a native english speaker so they have NONE.

If you truly want to help some thai kids learn english why not stop by a local public high school and ask to talk to the head of the English dept and see if they might be able to pull some strings to help you volunteer without any work permit hassles. ...you might be pleasantly surprised. Do not expect them to PAY you as they have very little money. In fact over time you will likely find that YOU will subsidize the kids a bit by buying supplies etc with YOUR money.

An expat in Thailand on a retirement visa is not eligible for a work permit; and doing volunteer work without a work permit, even for free, will eventually get you in trouble with Thai Immigration.

[Mosha]

The problem is they are trying to teach junior school level kids a standard of English that is way too hard, so the kids lose interest. A few years ago the Thai English teacher from the village school called at the house. With point and see and her very limited English. She pointed out she wanted me to write down some questions for them, using a document she held in her hand. It was a scientific paper, containing words that just do not appear in conversational English. She had highlighted the words she wanted me to use, and I would have had to look these up in an high quality dictionary. As others have hinted at, teach the teachers to converse in English then the students have a chance. Now my wife just tells them my visa says no work allowed.

[cpofc]

Some time ago I was 'conned' into attending an all volunteer, after hours english language class, at a high school in Lad Phrao.

The Teacher was devoting her free time to teach anyone who wished to attend. (the Buddhist thing). She was most excited to meet me and we talked a bit before the class went in. (in English). The class was made up of complete mixture of Thai Society and Social Classes, The old and the young, from street sellers to businessmen, and all very, very eager to learn the most difficult language on the planet.

I had no idea at the time that I was about to be ambushed! From the beginning, sitting at a desk in a Thai HS Classroom, the teacher introduced me to the class, handed me the whiteboard marker and said they would have the pleasure today, of me taking this evenings English Class.

Jesus! No lesson plans, no training aids, save for a whiteboard and marker, no nothing except for my wits. Fortunately my last job in the Navy was as an Instructor Course Instructor at the RAN School of Training Technology, so calling upon my dim distant memory, up I got. Let's get started.

What is it that the Thais could really do with getting a handle on, I asked myself.

I drew a large circle on the board and numbered it as a clock face. Lets us learn to tell the time in English! Even learn the difference between AM and PM maybe. Those who have lived here for any time at all will know how difficult it is for many Thais to get the time right in English, as foreigners do with telling it in Thai

I must admit, it was a great pleasure to teach people who are really, honestly keen to learn.

Like Robin Williams in the movie Good Morning Vietnam. Teach 'real' English language, everyday stuff - and MAKE IT Fun/Sanook!

[unanimosity]

They should have adopted this approach years ago ... and I have always said that when they introduced the one child / one computer scheme some time back it should have been mandantory to learn to speak english as part of the program. !!

Years wasted when students could have been made to learn to speak proper english and then they would have opportunities to apply for jobs outside Thailand.

:jap:

Not wasted...by design. When given the opportunity to train staff in English and computer skills, the owners of a holding company here laughed at the naiveté of such an idea. They said, "Anybody knows that if you teach our staff English and computer skills they will leave us and go to another company that will pay them more."

[cpofc]

There are tons of older retired expats living all over Thailand that are bored to death and IF IF it were easier to do I think many of them would be happy to volunteer to teach a day or two a week. The first thing though is for the schools to be able to provide x number of work permits for these people. The idea that you need a work permit to volunteer to help out a bunch of kids for NO PAY is not helping. Many if not most of the public schools in rural areas can NOT afford to hire a native english speaker so they have NONE.

If you truly want to help some thai kids learn english why not stop by a local public high school and ask to talk to the head of the English dept and see if they might be able to pull some strings to help you volunteer without any work permit hassles. ...you might be pleasantly surprised. Do not expect them to PAY you as they have very little money. In fact over time you will likely find that YOU will subsidize the kids a bit by buying supplies etc with YOUR money.

An expat in Thailand on a retirement visa is not eligible for a work permit; and doing volunteer work without a work permit, even for free, will eventually get you in trouble with Thai Immigration.

I would doubt that very much, considering should you ever wish to claim Thai Residency you would need to provide proof you have helped and benefited their society in some way or another. In Thai culture you would be revered for giving your time freely to contribute to the betterment of the country and its people.

But I would stand corrected.

[unanimosity]

BTW, Thai and all other languages are the foreign languages. English is the global language.

[cpofc]

BTW, Thai and all other languages are the foreign languages. English is the global language.

Much to the chagrin of the French. And the more enlightened Thais know this too, that is why this learned lady is pressing for reform in the Ed System.

[unanimosity]

There are tons of older retired expats living all over Thailand that are bored to death and IF IF it were easier to do I think many of them would be happy to volunteer to teach a day or two a week. The first thing though is for the schools to be able to provide x number of work permits for these people. The idea that you need a work permit to volunteer to help out a bunch of kids for NO PAY is not helping. Many if not most of the public schools in rural areas can NOT afford to hire a native english speaker so they have NONE.

If you truly want to help some thai kids learn english why not stop by a local public high school and ask to talk to the head of the English dept and see if they might be able to pull some strings to help you volunteer without any work permit hassles. ...you might be pleasantly surprised. Do not expect them to PAY you as they have very little money. In fact over time you will likely find that YOU will subsidize the kids a bit by buying supplies etc with YOUR money.

It would be great if the Thai Govt was not so harsh in regard to qualified 'ancient' expats wanting to help teach English on a volunteer basis. I have just obtained a 'long-stay' visa, and as I did not have a letter from a Thai school, I was not able to obtain a visa which would allow even volunteer teaching. Maybe while I'm 'retired' I can get the required letter and try again in a year's time.

Have you ever just tried to walk into a public high school, ask for the English dept head and tell them that you would like to volunteer to teach for free a day or two a week but you do not have a teaching work permit...you might be pleasantly surprised as some of them do have some connections that can make things happen...who knows maybe one of the govt workers who issues the permits just might have been one of the English dept heads students???....Sometimes in Thailand there are the rules and then there are THE rules.

You are assuming of course that anybody in the school would understand enough to know what you were talking about in offering your time. THE rule is that another teacher that loses face over you being there is going to have immigration all over you in a New York second. Yesterday, a hotel doorman next to Top's Market on Wireless, as well as a security officer in front of Top's could not understand that single word in English...Top's.

[sirchai]

Where are the teachers which can make this come true? Where is the political will? Where are the motivated students? Who waste one thought about the common Asean labour market starting in 2015? She is right, but we all know that the only thing what will happen is the usual blabla. One can only be sorry for the future of so many students.

I totally agree with her. I have been teaching English at primary and high school level for seven years. I'm at a primary school in the lower northeast now and I do believe that using simple English for daily life at primary schools makes perfect sense.

We've got some strange Thai English teachers who think that they've to teach the whole content of their "Express" English books without realizing that even kids in Prathom 6 can't answer simple questions.

"Express" books are pretty strange, most explanations are inThai, many words or whole sentences are wrong. Pretty much useless.

I've told our head teacher a while ago that focusing on Grammar isn't really necessary, so it's out for now. An Ex- student of mine found the right words for the situation: "Thai students have to learn a lot of Grammar, but they don't have the vocabulary to use it."

Most of our older students can't even read which makes it impossible to pass O-net tests. But that's a Thai measurement for students' knowledge.

I truly believe that we'll have to create our own curriculum to see better results in the future, as we've got only two hours of English per week taught by a foreigner in each level, which isn't enough.

I've learned two other languages, one of them is Thai. When I'm not using the language I'll forget many words, so it's the same thing with all languages. Learning by doing. Just in my opinion, it's very helpful to use Thai in class to tell them the meaning of a word in their own language.

Of course not in an EP setting. Loads of agencies here are hiring anybody speaking English and sent them to schools to become "teachers." The "native English speakers" from the islands are doing the rest.

It's not really easy to teach English in Thailand, as I've seen hundreds of people trying to do this job, but failed. I'm married, living here for more than ten years and we've got kids who speak a good English, but only because they always speak it.

It's true that the MOE has to change many things to see better results, but how many students are good at primary schools in English, let's say in France, for example?

Thai kids are great and I'm happy that we do not need metal detectors at the entrance of our school like in the United States. The students give me more than money can buy, some of them like me more than they like their parents.

Wish all of you a nice time teaching in LOS! Cheers-

Edited December 21, 2011 by metisdead
Font.

[pomchop]

There are tons of older retired expats living all over Thailand that are bored to death and IF IF it were easier to do I think many of them would be happy to volunteer to teach a day or two a week. The first thing though is for the schools to be able to provide x number of work permits for these people. The idea that you need a work permit to volunteer to help out a bunch of kids for NO PAY is not helping. Many if not most of the public schools in rural areas can NOT afford to hire a native english speaker so they have NONE.

If you truly want to help some thai kids learn english why not stop by a local public high school and ask to talk to the head of the English dept and see if they might be able to pull some strings to help you volunteer without any work permit hassles. ...you might be pleasantly surprised. Do not expect them to PAY you as they have very little money. In fact over time you will likely find that YOU will subsidize the kids a bit by buying supplies etc with YOUR money.

It would be great if the Thai Govt was not so harsh in regard to qualified 'ancient' expats wanting to help teach English on a volunteer basis. I have just obtained a 'long-stay' visa, and as I did not have a letter from a Thai school, I was not able to obtain a visa which would allow even volunteer teaching. Maybe while I'm 'retired' I can get the required letter and try again in a year's time.

Have you ever just tried to walk into a public high school, ask for the English dept head and tell them that you would like to volunteer to teach for free a day or two a week but you do not have a teaching work permit...you might be pleasantly surprised as some of them do have some connections that can make things happen...who knows maybe one of the govt workers who issues the permits just might have been one of the English dept heads students???....Sometimes in Thailand there are the rules and then there are THE rules.

You are assuming of course that anybody in the school would understand enough to know what you were talking about in offering your time. THE rule is that another teacher that loses face over you being there is going to have immigration all over you in a New York second. Yesterday, a hotel doorman next to Top's Market on Wireless, as well as a security officer in front of Top's could not understand that single word in English...Top's.

I'm not assuming anything. I know for a fact what happened as I did it and had no problems at all. It is always easier to just do nothing or "assume" the worst. I never said every school would be the same but unless you try you just won't ever know. And i hardly think that immigration will be alerted just because you asked.

[starguard69]

Leaving grammer until later....is a really stupid idea!!!! How can you teach English WITHOUT learning to use it correctly? This is why ESL students at the college-level are having a hard time learning English as we speak.<div>And just because you are a retired english speaker DOES NOT qualify you as a certified, qualified teacher of English.<br><div><br></div></div>

[sirchai]

Good stuff but it's only stating the obvious.

Many people have said exactly the same thing for years but are just ignored, so I can't see this lady having any more luck.

Simple facts are that speaking English is far more valid than reading and writing it (although I agree best to do both) and you do not use grammar when you speak. The obsession with teaching grammar "first and foremost" is a travesty really. We know why they do it, becasue the teachers can teach it from books in rote style which means they can get away with limited ability themselves.

You cannot teach spoken English if the teachers cannot speak it themselves. The alternative of "native speaking" teachers is not an option in the places it is needed most i.e. government schools, probably in the sticks due to the financial restraints. In 14 years i have never met ONE Thai teacher fully proficient to be teaching English as a spoken language.

A good post, but you do not use Grammar when you speak? How does that work?

[SICHONSTEVE]

@hellodolly

Yes but how would this country prosper if the working class could speak English?

Still a relatively inexpensive location yet the back office boom completely passed the country by. Lack of English speaking resources being a major factor! By speaking English maybe that cook or assembly line worker would have other career options?

Our mate Taksin knew it when he said that Thai golf caddies were the best in the world and the country could prosper by exporting them to the world but guess what? None of them can speak English well enough to forge a career overseas.

"Our mate Taksin knew it when he said that Thai golf caddies were the best in the world and the country could prosper by exporting them to the world but guess what? None of them can speak English well enough to forge a career overseas".

What rubbish you (and Thaksin, as per is the norm) are talking - you clearly don't play golf!!!

Thaksin's ideas are, and always have been flawed and unworkable as will be witnessed by his (Lieyingluck's) stupid schemes when they are implemented after they have sorted their abysmal handling of the flood disaster out!!! Just wait and see!!!!

This governments education policies are equally as pathetic and if government has much of a say in shaping this then it will set Thailand back years!!!.

[visions]

I do not think great effort needs to be spent on teaching kids to speak English. I think the time needs to be spent on teaching them to read and understand written english and to write it to some extent. The focus should be on reading.

Spoken english is very hard to learn without exposure to good spoken english contantly.

The ability to read English enables access to a wide world of material a it is one of the international languages for bussiness and science.

What people are forgetting here is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to learn a second language without mastery over a first one. How many Thai students speak, read and write Thai properly?

You can't learn English grammar unless you have a competent understanding of your mother tongue's grammar; and the way Thai students are taught language (thai) in school is a big impediment; they are taught rote and only know the rules of Thai from memorization; no understanding of the concepts and structures present. No encouragement to be expressive in vocabulary spoken or written.

In addition; in order to transfer your thoughts and ideas into English it takes creativity in thinking; you can't just translate word for word what you want to say.

Beyond that; I hear all the time Thais saying things like the "s" sound in plurals in English is not important for Thais because Thai doesn't have these structures.

Bottom line is Thais will continue to speak the gobblety gook they mindlessly sputter and call it English; and if the rest of the world doesn't like it; screw em; we do it Thai style. TIT

Those assumptions are not correct. It just takes the right manner of teaching.....

I started teaching English in a poor area school, and in a very short time realised I was pee ing into a head wind.... I threw out all the teaching materials I was supposed to use. I bought a large screen LCD TV took my computer and started using computer games with the kids. All English versions obviously. The worst trouble maker kids in the class became the best!!!! it was what they knew so were top of the class...imagine what that did for their ego and self confidence! I never had behavioural problems ever again!

I used Pop music Tata Young for example so, as the kids knew the songs they were happy singing her songs....in English of course. I used wireless mikes with a big sound system and they lined up to sing...in English!! Hell I even had them dancing on the desk tops......but they were having a great time....and in English!! We watched cartoons.....in English. I had them making English versions of origami....IE Cutting out and folding houses, cars... all sorts of things.....all in English of course.

At no time did I teach them English.......certainly never dreamed of grammar rules. But, after 2 years virtually the whole school could speak basic English, and, the best were the ones with LEAST knowledge of Thai...ie, P1 and P2.

I knew I was succeeding with the kids, because the next class would be packing up my gear ready to take to their class so they had me as long as possible....they WANTED to learn!! I am sure if I had continued with those kids from P1/P2 they would have been totally fluent in spoken English by the time they ended P6. Grammar comes naturally as competence in USING the language expands.

[xthAi76s]

In Israel you can learn to speak and write Hebrew in 3 months... it's a course called Ulpan. It is not fun at all, but it works.

Yes, but you're dealing with well-educated, probably more intelligent, and highly motivated students who come from a culture that values hard work rather than avoiding it as much as possible.

If you take away all or even most of those factors and the same methods just don't work.

I'm not putting a good/bad slant on things here, I've very glad that Thailand has taught me to value my cultural brainwashing regarding life priorities, but such "paradigm issues" are fundamental.

If you want your students to learn you either need a very big stick (which goes away as they get older) or you need to make it fun.

Expecting them to be motivated to sacrifice short-term pleasure for long-term gain - well on this side of the pond that flies as well as a lead balloon.

And it doesn't necessarily make teaching harder except when the teacher doesn't want to change his/her methodologies to suit the needs of the students - and that to me defines a good teacher much more than formal qualifications.

For all those talking about allowing foreigners to volunteer their time, it's a great idea in principle - in my opinion just chatting in fractured English with any foreigner would serve the students better than what they're getting now.

But again, local cultural/political/realities work against such a scheme:

- it assumes the powers that be actually care about the education of the students

- what do they (TPTB) get out of it? no percentage in it for them in money or power, in fact it undermines both

- it isn't possible to allow the current local teachers of pseudo-English to lose so much face when everyone realizes

they (and their headmaster, and the officials in charge at the Ministry etc) actually can't speak much English

- this loophole would immediately start being abused so that foreigners are actually employed and being paid cash

under the table under the guise of "volunteering"

And of course it would help the government avoid one of the fundamental issues - the budgets must be expanded to **pay for** the required native speakers (much more than the bosses in the system make, never mind ordinary teachers) in order to have any real impact.

I'm afraid, just like corruption, this is a problem that won't be going away soon, no matter what posters here think say or do.

If you want to actually make a real difference, spend time and energy to get to know the locals and keep offering to help those who want it. When they finally see you really mean it you'll get some takers. And don't just target the pretty young ones either 8-)

+1 (big-time)

[xthAi76s]

Leaving grammer until later....is a really stupid idea!!!! How can you teach English WITHOUT learning to use it correctly? This is why ESL students at the college-level are having a hard time learning English as we speak.<div>And just because you are a retired english speaker DOES NOT qualify you as a certified, qualified teacher of English.<br><div><br></div></div>

Hi, actually, this is not necessarily true. I used to think this as well, but as I studied language(s) -- I studied Japanese, French and now Thai -- I learned that in fact most popular language instruction methodologies now focus on speaking and understanding initially and work toward reading (harder than speaking and understanding) and then onto writing (harder still). There must be some focus on grammar throughout the instruction but only so much as to allow students to focus on understanding.

Berlitz, for example, follows this method.

Your point about grammar in English being important, however, is of course true, but, in my opinion, only because it allows users of the language to continue their learning into the future as English is highly structural language.

EDIT: The Berlitz Method

Edited December 21, 2011 by ThailandMan

[sparebox2]

English language may be important. But most Thai student don't know how to use Thai language properly, which is MORE important.

I suggest Thai education strengthen Thai language ability before teaching a foreign language.

[penwithchris]

I would be disturbed if my child was to be taught by many of the ex-pats with whom I have become acquainted. Do we really want young Thai students referring to England as ING-ER-LAND ING-ER-LAND and using the adjective f------g this and f-------g that at every opportunity.

Some form of basic competence in English, both written and oral, must be required before any 'native' speaker be let loose in the classroom.