Work Permit, The End Of An Era (As Stated In The Samui Gazette) ?

[NHJ]

hi,

as most of you i read the headline of the samui gazette while shopping at 7/11 talking about the new salary needed to issue a work permit.

today i came across this note (see attachement), i wanted to know from people in this situation if :

1) this is only for new work permit and/or if old work permit are granfathered

2) this is really enforced and also retroactive on past month(after october 1st) regarding tax payment

according to a simulation of PND91 on a salary of 30k you would pay 1k of tax per month while on 50k of salary you would pay 3.1K of taxes, quite a huge difference.

[BangrakBob]

hi,

as most of you i read the headline of the samui gazette while shopping at 7/11 talking about the new salary needed to issue a work permit.

today i came across this note (see attachement), i wanted to know from people in this situation if :

1) this is only for new work permit and/or if old work permit are granfathered

2) this is really enforced and also retroactive on past month(after october 1st) regarding tax payment

according to a simulation of PND91 on a salary of 30k you would pay 1k of tax per month while on 50k of salary you would pay 3.1K of taxes, quite a huge difference.

We've been issued new work permits in October and our salaries are as per the attached and paying tax accordingly. Pretty much the amount you have mentioned.

[limbos]

My understanding is that Samui is one of the last places in Thailand to get on par with the rest of the country on this issue. I may be wrong though.

[Rooo]

They had a scale for different nationalities. For instance from my understanding, Australians Bht 50K has always been the case, please correct me if I'm wrong. They just took them all to the same level.

Anyway moving to Visa/ Work permits section with link left here.

[lopburi3]

Different wage requirements by nationality is the immigration requirement for extension of stay per police order 777/2551 as below. This has not been a requirement for work permit issue however.

Nationality Minimum Income

1. European countries (except Russia), Australia

continent, Canada, Japan, and U.S.A.

Baht 50,000/month

2. South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong Baht 45,000/month

3. Asian countries (except Japan, South Korea,

Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Cambodia,

Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam), South America

continent, Countries in Eastern Europe, Countries in

Central America, Mexico, Turkey, Russia and South

Africa

Baht 35,000/month

4. African countries (except South Africa), Cambodia,

Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam

Baht 25,000/month

[QED]

This has been the scale applicable for all the time I have been working here (only 3 years), and applies to new applications or renewals.

In my industry they would question the application if you were earning less than 80-100k, so we declare 100k and pay the rest to offshore banks.

Tax here is on a sliding scale from 10% to 37% depending on income. It doesn't really kick in until about 20k per month due to personal allowances, but increases exponentially when you rise up the salary scale.

[Mario2008]

Not to mention that the minimum salary requirement is only for certain (most) jobs. teachers, people working for the government and for the emdia are for axample exempt from the immigration minimum income requirement.

[Tatsujin]

What's changed? Those salaries are what we've been working to for the last 3 years at least.

[NHJ]

What's changed? Those salaries are what we've been working to for the last 3 years at least.

t

totally wrong, the minimum was 30k until the 31 september 2011, the 50k is for those who wish to get an extension of stay based on business.

[Maestro]

I believe in this topic it is important to distinguish between the minimum salary requirements for the work permit application at the Department of Employment on the one hand and the application for extension of stay at the local immigration office on the other hand. NHJ made it clear in his OP that he was talking about the work permit application in Samui; Tatsujin appears to refer to the application for extension of stay.

[wayned]

The minimum salaries are as stated in post number 5 and have been for a few years EXCEPT in certain job categories that are exempt as stated in post number 7. It's up to the individual labor office to enforce the regulation.

[Mario2008]

Regulation from who? is the question. This doesn't seem to be a regulation from the Labour ministry but a policy from the Surathani labour office.

[wayned]

The salary requirement quote came directly from the " Non Immigrant Visa" banner on the TV home page under "one year WP and Visa", "6 steps to One tear WP and visa" as previously srtated by Lopburi3

"When applying for Extension of Stay, the Immigration expects the applicant to earn a minimum salary based on the nationality of the applicant. Be aware the Labor Department in Bangkok is now enforcing these minimum salaries, in most cases, when you apply for the work permit as well. The minimum salary requirements are listed below.

a. From most countries in European continent, Australasia, Canada, Japan, or United States of American, the minimum salary would be 50,000 Baht per month

b. From South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, the minimum salary would be 45,000 Baht per month

c. From most countries in Asian continent, South America, Eastern region of the European, Central America, Mexico, Turkey, Russia and South Africa, the minimum salary would be 35,000 Baht per month

d. From countries in Africa, Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam, the minimum salary would be 25,000 Baht per month

NOTE: The above requirements apply to an extension of stay based on employment. If work permit is issued against extension of stay based on marriage to Thai national, the minimum income requirement is 40,000 baht/month."

It was updated August 1, 2010., so it's not just a Surathani labor office regulation.

Edited December 28, 2011 by wayned

[Mario2008]

Salary requirements you qoute are set by immigraiton. Indeed some offices now seem to require a minimum salary, but it is far to early to speak of a general labour office policy. The fact that the document shown was signed by the Surathani Labour office and not the Minstry of Labour seems to me seem to confirm it is not a general policy yet.

[wayned]

I think that you are splitting hairs. You agree that the regulation is there, set by the MFA. Surathani has elected to adhere to that regulation by giving notice in writting. I never said that it was a general labor office policy, in fact, I said, (post #11) "it's up to the individual labor office to enforce the regulation"

[Mario2008]

It is not a regulation by the MFA, but by the immigration commission/immigration and only applies to people applying for an extension of stay based on employment. It has nothing do do with a work permit. Many people have a work permit but can't apply for an extension of stay so stay in Thailand on a (multiple) non-B entry.

Some labour offices now seem to require that for a work permit one also needs to meet the criteria for an extension of stay from immigration. That is worrysome for many, but I don't see proof of a general policy yet.

[lopburi3]

The salary requirement quote came directly from the " Non Immigrant Visa" banner on the TV home page under "one year WP and Visa", "6 steps to One tear WP and visa" as previously srtated by Lopburi3

I do not know how my name is coming into this but I made no such quote - I provided the requirement stated in police order 777/2551 for one year extension of stay - it has nothing to do with work permits and Labor Department - the page you seem to be talking about was not authored or posted by me.

[Mario2008]

I checked a few websites of lawfirms in Thailand, but only Sunbelt mentioned an income requirement but I'm not sure that regards to thw wp itself or an extension of stay.

Tilleke & Gibbens for example don't mention a minum requirement, they updated their section on Thai law in November and also don't mention any change in their news letter.

[wayned]

The salary requirement quote came directly from the " Non Immigrant Visa" banner on the TV home page under "one year WP and Visa", "6 steps to One tear WP and visa" as previously srtated by Lopburi3

I do not know how my name is coming into this but I made no such quote - I provided the requirement stated in police order 777/2551 for one year extension of stay - it has nothing to do with work permits and Labor Department - the page you seem to be talking about was not authored or posted by me.

Sorry if I misquoted you, It was in reference to your post #5. However, if you go to the banner on the home page and click on "Non-immigrant visa", then "one year WP and visa" a page is displayed that says "6 steps to one year WP and visa"- updated 1 August 2010. If you scroll down to the sub-heading in the middle of the page called "Labor Department", you will see the exact information as I copied above which specifically states that "The Labor Department in BKK is now enforcing these minimum salaries, in most cases, when you apply for the work permit as well."

Someone in the Thai Visa administration included this updated info under the "Non-immigrant visa" banner, it didn't just appear there by osmosis

[lopburi3]

I indeed did go there prior to my above response.

[wayned]

I indeed did go there prior to my above response.

Obviously it was authored and posted by someone within TV Administration and if it is incorrect, shouldn't it be corrected by a TV admin person or moderator? It specifically states something that ,if incorrect, is causing some confusion and disagreement.

[wayned]

Interesting that no one wants to take ownership of the information posted in the banner on the Thai Visa home page!

[lopburi3]

Perhaps because they have read the forum rules and you have equated this with moderator action.

21) Not to discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.

[Maestro]

Interesting that no one wants to take ownership of the information posted in the banner on the Thai Visa home page!

The way I remember it, a member posted many months ago that his local labour office -- can't remember if it was the one in Bangkok -- started applying the minimum salary requirement for extensions of stay also for work permit applications. The OP of this topic indicates that the Samui labour office is now doing the same.

Regarding "the information posted in the banner on the Thai Visa home page" I'm not sure what you mean. Can you post the URL of the web page where you read that information? If it was the link to an advertisement you clicked on, we don't all see the same ads. The screenshot below shows what I see at the top of the page:

P.S. I found now the page from which you quoted. The URL is www.thaivisa.com/513.0.html

Edited December 28, 2011 by Maestro
Added postscript

[Maestro]

I think that you are splitting hairs. You agree that the regulation is there, set by the MFA. Surathani has elected to adhere to that regulation by giving notice in writting. I never said that it was a general labor office policy, in fact, I said, (post #11) "it's up to the individual labor office to enforce the regulation"

At the risk of also giving the impression of splitting hairs I would like to point out that the fact that some labour offices -- so far we know about Bangkok and Samui -- are applying the minimum salary requirements for extensions of stay for the reason of employment also for work permit applications is not saying that there is a Ministry of Labour regulation to this effect.

[wayned]

It seems that I have been chastised for pointing out what I saw as conflicting information and asking for it to be looked into and corrected if in error, so you won't hear any more from me on this issue, I did PM Lopburi3 regarding this and received PMs from both Lopburi3 and Mario in return. Doesn't say a lot for the "Personal" in the PM sysyem.

[Maestro]

...I did PM Lopburi3 regarding this and received PMs from both Lopburi3 and Mario in return. Doesn't say a lot for the "Personal" in the PM sysyem.

As the above part of your post is off topic here but in my opinion of general interest to our membership I have started the new topic "How Personal Are My Messages In The Personal Messenger?" on this subject in the "Forum support desk"

[Maestro]

It seems that I have been chastised for pointing out what I saw as conflicting information and asking for it to be looked into and corrected if in error, so you won't hear any more from me on this issue...

No, you have not been chastised. I am sure all members enjoy a lively debate and as part of this accept without rancour when a discrepancy in their reasoning is pointed out.

In your case, in this topic you quoted correctly form a ThaiVisa web page the following text:

When applying for Extension of Stay, the Immigration expects the applicant to earn a minimum salary based on the nationality of the applicant. Be aware the Labor Department in Bangkok is now enforcing these minimum salaries, in most cases, when you apply for the work permit as well. The minimum salary requirements are listed below.

a. From most countries in European continent, Australasia, Canada, Japan, or United States of American, the minimum salary would be 50,000 Baht per month

b. From South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, the minimum salary would be 45,000 Baht per month

c. From most countries in Asian continent, South America, Eastern region of the European, Central America, Mexico, Turkey, Russia and South Africa, the minimum salary would be 35,000 Baht per month

d. From countries in Africa, Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam, the minimum salary would be 25,000 Baht per month

NOTE: The above requirements apply to an extension of stay based on employment. If work permit is issued against extension of stay based on marriage to Thai national, the minimum income requirement is 40,000 baht/month.

In a later post, you referred to the above as a "regulation". You may not be aware of this, but in the context of requirements for a work permit application or any other dealing with a government department, a regulation is always something that applies nationwide. The official term for it is "Ministerial Regulation", and these are always published in the Government Gazette. What you called a regulation, however, is something that has, to the extent reported so far on this forum, so far been implemented by only two provincial labour offices and this discrepancy between what would be a regulation but was what clearly appears to be an irregular implementation of a new requirement by only a few labour offices has been mentioned for the benefit of the readers, so that they may not mistakenly believe that this is now an official requirement.

You may call this splitting of hairs, but looking at it carefully you will probably agree that in this particular case it was important to make this distinction. Your participation in this and all other ThaiVisa forums is appreciated and I hope that you will continue to make this contribution. I, for one, am grateful to you for having posted the information about implementation of this requirement by the Samui labour office and so are the other moderators of this forum and all members with a work permit using the Samui labour office, I am sure.

[Maestro]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, so far we have heard that two provincial labour offices, Bangkok and Samui, are using the same minimum salary requirements that apply for employment extensions of stay also for work permit applications. I would be very grateful if any member who has a Thai work permit and was confronted with the same new requirement on his last work permit renewal or if this happens during his next renewal would kindly post it here in this topic, with indication of the labour office where this happened.

Important: this is about requirements for the work permit (labour office), NOT for the extension of stay (immigration office)

[Tatsujin]

You are correct, I misread the post and equated the salaries to those for Extension of Stay based on Business. However, I have heard through my contact that does all our paperwork that (in some cases) those salaries are also being applied to Work Permit applications in the same way as they are for Extension of Stay. Whether there is anything "official" out there, whether its being applied solely at the discretion of the particular officer you are dealing with, I couldn't say. As with most things here in Thailand, there is often no rhyme or reason.