Speaking English Campaign Is Just A Passing Fad: Thai Opinion

[jshorts]

Ah, the Thai English teachers. One of my private students showed me his homework. I had helped him to understand the questions and how to answer them.

The teacher made a few corrections. All wrong, but one that stuck out and forever will be, is "She had an accident and went to the hospital"..... corrected to "She accidented and went to hospital".

Love it!

Thanks for sharing!

[scorecard]

Last year, around this time, I was in a university in Thailand for a promotion day they were holding for their university. I walked around until I found the English Education majors. I stopped and had a chat with them. They asked where I was from, so I said, "The United States." They looked puzzled, so I repeated it two times. The only male student at the tent spoke up and said, "Ahh France."

I feel that having teachers who have learned to speak Thai (at least a little bit) can save time. Thais might usually say "ma jak America"

- I come from America - a teachable moment - ma jak United States - I come from xyz etc..

Glad you didn't teach my Thai son to speak English also his young daughter.

[Jingthing]

Ah, the Thai English teachers. One of my private students showed me his homework. I had helped him to understand the questions and how to answer them.

The teacher made a few corrections. All wrong, but one that stuck out and forever will be, is "She had an accident and went to the hospital"..... corrected to "She accidented and went to hospital".

Love it!

Thanks for sharing!

Of course either went to hospital or went to the hospital are both OK depending on what country you are from. Accidented ... good one.

[jshorts]

Why so much effort to teach English to a population that will never need it.

Maybe tops 5% of the population will need it and of those 5% only half will need to be proficient in it.

I live here in Chiang Mai and constantly find myself making purchases from Thai's who can not speak English.

I believe that the pressure to learn English stems from people who do not want to learn the Language of Thailand and are trying to get it so the clerk who sells them a clearly marked price item can explain to them what 200 baht means.

Thai's need to learn the basics Science Mathematics how to reason. English will always be avalable but a waste of money 95% of the time. Why not teach them Chinese?

Chinese are also needing to learn English... the world of business , tourism, internet, is based on English... thats the way of the world and in the future everyone will speak English... sooner the better... like it or lump it,,, thats the way forward..

I think it is time you bought a new keyboard with a working apostrophe key.

[jshorts]

"When Thais speak English, they almost always carry a distinctive Thai accent."

I have noticed this with a lot of Americans, British, South African etc also. Are we Aussies the only ones that speak without an accent? Just kidding, not bashing anyone. My son is always correcting me on how I pronounce certain words. He speaks fluent english/thai at home and is also taught at school by Thai's and says he is constantly being corrected by his teachers in the pronounciation of english words. It hard to tell him that it is the Thai teachers who are teaching him wrong. When we speak with the teachers at his school the farang teachers will say his english language is excellent but the Thai teachers tell us that he is struggling to grasp the english language.

In Thailand English will never be spoken correctly unless it is taught by Thai's. English speaking Farangs are teaching thier children wrong.

How absurd. Your own English needs a little something too. Your second sentence interprets as teachers leading pupils into a life of crime.Much of the posting on this topic here make little sense to me. There is nothing wrong with speaking with an accent indeed one must expect it. BTW Thais have their own accents. I have difficulty in understand Scouse, Geordie or Glaswegian - especially if the speaker has 'had a few.' Two anecdotes. 1. Enjoying a quiet pint in a Birmingham pub after a hectic day at work I became engaged in conversation with a native of Newcastle. He observed that I was not a native of Birmingham (Thank you dear God for that!) and I somewhat sarcastically confirmed that that was the case. His next comment stunned me since I could understand only about every third word he uttered. "Don't they talk funny around here," he said. 2. When working in Savannah, GA at a time when I had disciplined myself to speak 'perceived' English rather than my 'Sarf Londun' patois, the locals regularly informed me that they 'just lurved' my accent. As a matter of routine I retorted that I didn't have one - and they did. I was greatly amused every time as puzzled looks appeared on faces and I could imagine cogs inside heads working out the logic of that. I have been unable to hold a sensible conversation with either of the teachers responsible for teaching English at Thai schools.

I actually got his/her sattire which I think was directed at me, but I do not understand what you are saying. How does being taught english the wrong way lead students into a life of crime. Oh well it's back to english classes for me as I can't even understand written text.

P.S Dot your "i's" and cross your "t's" people because the spelling and grammar police are going to be out in force and ready to jump on you from great hieghts in this topic.

I won't jump on you from great hieghts; I can't even find that word in my dictionary.

In a discussion of this nature it amazes me that people apparently take such little pride in what they write.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

Please stay on the topic and refrain from comments are posters' grammar and spelling.

[jshorts]

Off-topic posts deleted.

Please stay on the topic and refrain from comments are posters' grammar and spelling.

In a discussion regarding the quality of teaching English in the Thai school system, it is completely to the point to discuss posters' grammer and spelling. It might, for example, indicate that there are many reasons for poor study results, including, but not limited to, teaching methods, student interest and general pride in the way one communicates.

By the way, what does ". . . refrain from comments are posters' grammar . . ." mean?

Edited January 2, 2012 by jshorts

[jshorts]

.....but what do you do when the vast majority of Thai English teachers are incompetent and can't pass the exam that they are trying to teach their students to pass?

I am not a teacher but I am a native speaker I think your staement means nothing with some concrete evidence.

I think one of the major problems is for the Thai children and the Thai teachers to understand "Why" learning English and other languages eg. Chinese is important - without a motivating factor such as employment, further education etc why should they apply themselves ?

When I was at school we had the opportunity to study french or german no way was the normal catch cry and of course we remained with English and were barren of international language skills how I rue the day when i said "Not for Me' to learning another language.

Inasmuch as I am having difficult understanding what you mean by ". . . I think your staement means nothing with some concrete evidence."

I wonder if you would be so kind as to provide further clarification.

Further, when I was in school no explanation was given as to why any particular subject was important.

I hardly imagine that a child in the third grade is going to be motivated by potential employment.

[jshorts]

Anyway all of this discussion doesn't matter. I think it all boils down to what I have said a million times...24 times actually...Thailand doesn't care...simple as that. It is unfortunate they (I use this broadly) have this attitude becomes come 2015 they are going to have a severe wake up call with other ASEAN countries passing them by with a quickness.

I am having difficulty understanding what you mean by ". . . they (I use this broadly) have this attitude becomes come 2015 . . ."

Would you kindly clarify?

Edited January 2, 2012 by jshorts

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

Please stay on the topic and refrain from comments are posters' grammar and spelling.

In a discussion regarding the quality of teaching English in the Thai school system, it is completely to the point to discuss posters' grammer and spelling. It might, for example, indicate that there are many reasons for poor study results, including, but not limited to, teaching methods, student interest and general pride in the way one communicates.

By the way, what does ". . . refrain from comments are posters' grammar . . ." mean?

This forum is used by people from various countries. Not all are native speakers and we do not restrict comments to those whose spelling and 'grammer' are up to par. Discussion is limited to the topic in the original post.

A review of the rules might be helpful.

[jshorts]

Off-topic posts deleted.

Please stay on the topic and refrain from comments are posters' grammar and spelling.

In a discussion regarding the quality of teaching English in the Thai school system, it is completely to the point to discuss posters' grammer and spelling. It might, for example, indicate that there are many reasons for poor study results, including, but not limited to, teaching methods, student interest and general pride in the way one communicates.

By the way, what does ". . . refrain from comments are posters' grammar . . ." mean?

This forum is used by people from various countries. Not all are native speakers and we do not restrict comments to those whose spelling and 'grammer' are up to par. Discussion is limited to the topic in the original post.

A review of the rules might be helpful.

I have reviewed the rules and do understand that non-native English speakers write posts, too.

At the same time when native English speakers (either self-proclaimed or evident by writing style) are discussing English instruction, it is, indeed, relevant to the topic in the original post.

I am unclear why you put the word "grammer" in single quotation marks.

[exalll]

^{I'm sorry, but all the comments along the lines of "only 5% will ever need it so no need to teach it" are utter nonsence. I studied physics at school, but because of my career choices, I never really needed it. I would imagine that probably 19 out of the 20 people in my class never needed it. Does this mean that physics should not be taught? Of course not. Take any class in any school in, let's say, Phichit Province - probably 95% of those students will end up in jobs where they do not need English (or physics). According to the "logic" of those posters who argue that you should not teach a subject to those who will not need it, you should excuse the 95% who will not need it from their English lessons, and only teach the 5% who will. Brilliant strategy, provided you can show me, with no errors, which of the students make up the 5%. Education is about giving children opportunities. In the modern world, like it or not (and personally, I don't like it), teaching English opens up a lot more opportunities than virtually any other subject.}

Edited January 3, 2012 by exalll

[rockderk]

Good to see the greengrocer's apostrophe still going strong.... Get out there and learn 'em English

[Credo]

A good education would include a foreign language. In most places, English would be the preferred choice. I probably took a lot of subjects which I didn't need to and don't use, but I know there are a number of subjects which I wished I would have taken but didn't.

Mozart probably needed a few music lessons and Einstein probably benefited from his Physics class. Somchai might not need English, but he may benefit from being able to read the fertilizer instructions in English.

[nikster]

You have to speak English to experience the world. It's the universal language of business, and by default also for anything else. That's why it's important to learn. To say "oh, you'll probably never need it (just as long as you stay in your village and don't aspire to see the world)" is naive. And a bit condescending.

The EU has a policy of treating all EU languages the same. I think that's idiotic. They should just settle on English - not because it's so great; not because the English, or the Americans are so great - only because it's already the de-facto international language, and the sooner the world settles on a single one, the sooner everyone will be able to talk with each other.

I am not opposed to learning languages; to linguistics; to nuances that other languages don't have; I just think that being able to communicate with each other is much more important than all that. Learning dozens of languages is not a practical solution.

Younger Thais seem to be better at English these days, despite all the failed government initiatives. I mean - this is Thailand. The government isn't going to help you. But you can still do what you want to do.

The internet is doing a great job of spreading English, just as books did when I was a kid (I had lots of books that weren't available in my native German - I had a very good reason to learn English that way...)

[nikster]

.... Somchai might not need English, but he may benefit from being able to read the fertilizer instructions in English.

Word!! You just wrote that and all around me on the fields here in northern Thailand said Somchai is poisoning himself by applying insecticide with no protection and in massive quantities...

[connda]

The Sun, Moon, and stars revolve around Thailand. Don't bother with English. Waste of time. I'm sure the rest of the world will decide to take up the Thai language when they rightfully understand that Thailand is the true business center of the developed world (and the universe).

[trainman34014]

Most countries plan and know where they want thier society to be in 30 - 50 yrs. I wonder what Thailands plans are for it's citizens.

The simple and obvious answer is....exactly where they are now ! The 'elite' in this country always control everything by keeping the population ignorant, because that's how they stay rich and the rest stay poor.

[Daewoo]

Interesting.I accept these good points but remain a bit puzzled why China and Vietnam, with no British colonial tradition to build on, remain so more advanced than Thailand in English language skills.

Working in a Chinese company in Australia, with 290 Chinese workers (on work visa's), chosen from the top 0.5% of Chinese University graduates, I can tell you that their English skills are almost non-existent. Maybe some Chinese that you are exposed to who have been specifically selected for their English skills are better, but my experience with Chinese in Australia, and having travelled in China is that their English skills are close to zero.

A lot of schools (private & Govt) in Australia now teach Chinese as a 2nd language and why? because China and Australia are the major players in the Asia/Pacific region in both trade and business. There are 1,000's of chinese also studying english for exactly the same reason.

I think there are two reasons for this beyond trade;

1st is that Ethnic Chinese must make up nearly 40% of school age Australians. It is ludicrous, but they study Chinese (their first language) to get good grades in the exams, to gain easier access to University. (equally as ludicrous that you can study any language that is your first language, and be compared to a true student).

2nd is that politically correct Australia thinks teaching Chinese to non-Chinese Australian kids is a good way to assimilate them into our society.

Daewoo

[ludditeman]

Easy to get free English speaking teachers into every Thai school.

Free citizenship for suitably qualified teachers with Thai family connections, whose first language is English and will teach for free, 2 days a week, for 5 years. (adjust conditions as required). Free residency and right to own 1 piece of land during that 5 years.

Edited January 4, 2012 by ludditeman

[Buchholz]

MFA launches English camp for youth

BANGKOK, 1 May 2012 (NNT) – The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has launched the ‘MFA Camp: Beyond English’ program with an aim to enhance the English skills of Thai adolescents and their confidence in speaking the language.

Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul presided over the opening ceremony of the MFA Camp: Beyond English at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The camp is being attended by over 100 students who are studying in Mathayom 3-6 in Bangkok and the vicinities and have passed an English language examination at the Devawongse Varopakarn Institute of Foreign Affairs. The camp is being held between April 30 and May 3 at Cholapruek Resort in Nakhon Nayok province.

The Foreign Minister pointed out that the government has given major importance to the formation of the ASEAN Community. Thus, the four-day program was established to train Thai youth to be more assertive and more confident when communicating in English.

Mr. Surapong also stated that positive feedbacks from parents have prompted the ministry to consider expanding the English camp project to other areas of the country as well.

-- NNT 2012-05-01

[BigJohnnyBKK]

One of the main reasons for the sudden resurgence of interest in English-speaking is the anticipation of the Asean Economic Community in 2015. There is a common belief that speaking English will be the key to partaking in this community-building exercise.

That is a faulty idea. Actually, knowing one's country better is a prerequisite for such community building. Then, a knowledge of neighboring countries will help to consolidate the sense of community. To do that, the English language is secondary.

What a crock - sure if "community" is the touchy-feely concept, but Thais improving their learning about Thai-ness isn't even going to help that.

To improve and promote the English proficiency of the Thai people is laudable, of course. However, the way the "English Speaking Year" is being structured and promoted will surely not work. It is a public relations exercise, not a serious educational programme.

This is true, but the goal is critical.

For those constantly missing the point, saying most Thais don't need to learn English, that may be true for now, but the point is that Thailand needs to give a much more level playing field of **opportunity** to achieve success, so ambitious and intelligent students from upcountry rural schools can compete with the wealthier urban ones for the better jobs, most of which do require at least some level of English.

And even for bank clerks, cashiers, QC techs at factories, their advancement will increasingly require effective English.

The whole education system needs an overhaul of course, English is just one factor for future competitiveness.

[Buchholz]

MFA launches English camp for youth

BANGKOK, 1 May 2012 (NNT) – The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has launched the ‘MFA Camp: Beyond English’ program with an aim to enhance the English skills of Thai adolescents and their confidence in speaking the language.

Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul presided over the opening ceremony of the MFA Camp: Beyond English at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Will Foreign Minister Surapong be attending as a participant since his own skills are so weak that he relies on translators, even though....

wait for it....

he apparently has a PhD obtained in the English language from the USA.

.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Buchholz

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Easy to get free English speaking teachers into every Thai school.

Free citizenship for suitably qualified teachers with Thai family connections, whose first language is English and will teach for free, 2 days a week, for 5 years. (adjust conditions as required). Free residency and right to own 1 piece of land during that 5 years.

But don't you understand Thailand is for Thais! They don't want new immigrants, and certainly not non-Asian ones and **most** certainly not any Tom Dick and Harry, their standards are set quite high for very good reason.

The English language is needed, doesn't meant they want native speakers to become integrated, they need to be able to reserve the ability to kick us 99% of us out whenever the political wind needs to blow that way.

[heiwa]

Like any subject - if there is no interest in it then there is no learning. Until Thais become interested there will be no learning. Even if you have the best teacher with an un-interested student we all know what the result will be. You see Cambodian, Indonesians, Malaysians all speak excellent English (not because of good teachers or a good education system) but because they are interested in popular culture which is dominated by English. However you can not force to people to be interested in English. Each to his or her own. Let it be.

[scorecard]

Like any subject - if there is no interest in it then there is no learning. Until Thais become interested there will be no learning. Even if you have the best teacher with an un-interested student we all know what the result will be. You see Cambodian, Indonesians, Malaysians all speak excellent English (not because of good teachers or a good education system) but because they are interested in popular culture which is dominated by English. However you can not force to people to be interested in English. Each to his or her own. Let it be.

There's another point, Malaysians, Filipinos, Indonesians and more are immersed in learning English from kindergarten, with emphasis on the development of listening and speaking skills, and these countries have learned decades ago how to do it well.

By the time they finish primary school they speak good to advanced English. It's not an 'add-on' after finishing high school or as adults.

Thailand could do the same but ...

Edited May 1, 2012 by scorecard

[heiwa]

Like any subject - if there is no interest in it then there is no learning. Until Thais become interested there will be no learning. Even if you have the best teacher with an un-interested student we all know what the result will be. You see Cambodian, Indonesians, Malaysians all speak excellent English (not because of good teachers or a good education system) but because they are interested in popular culture which is dominated by English. However you can not force to people to be interested in English. Each to his or her own. Let it be.

There's another point, Malaysians, Filipinos, Indonesians and more are immersed in learning English from kindergarten, with emphasis on the development of listening and speaking skills, and these countries have learned decades ago how to do it well.

By the time they finish primary school they speak good to advanced English. It's not an 'add-on' after finishing high school or as adults.

Thailand could do the same but ...

It would be a great threat to the caste system. If the down-trodden poor could read Thai Visa (with all its attacks on government) causing a peoples revolt when they wake up to the fact the government is in fact the state sponsored mafia. It really is best that the poor downtrodden do not learn English.

[hellodolly]

^{I'm sorry, but all the comments along the lines of "only 5% will ever need it so no need to teach it" are utter nonsence. I studied physics at school, but because of my career choices, I never really needed it. I would imagine that probably 19 out of the 20 people in my class never needed it. Does this mean that physics should not be taught? Of course not. Take any class in any school in, let's say, Phichit Province - probably 95% of those students will end up in jobs where they do not need English (or physics). According to the "logic" of those posters who argue that you should not teach a subject to those who will not need it, you should excuse the 95% who will not need it from their English lessons, and only teach the 5% who will. Brilliant strategy, provided you can show me, with no errors, which of the students make up the 5%. Education is about giving children opportunities. In the modern world, like it or not (and personally, I don't like it), teaching English opens up a lot more opportunities than virtually any other subject.}

What about Chinese. You seem to be under the impression the English speaking countries will always dominate business.

So what is your plan for them if in the future China overtakes the English speaking world.

[hellodolly]

You have to speak English to experience the world. It's the universal language of business, and by default also for anything else. That's why it's important to learn. To say "oh, you'll probably never need it (just as long as you stay in your village and don't aspire to see the world)" is naive. And a bit condescending.

The EU has a policy of treating all EU languages the same. I think that's idiotic. They should just settle on English - not because it's so great; not because the English, or the Americans are so great - only because it's already the de-facto international language, and the sooner the world settles on a single one, the sooner everyone will be able to talk with each other.

I am not opposed to learning languages; to linguistics; to nuances that other languages don't have; I just think that being able to communicate with each other is much more important than all that. Learning dozens of languages is not a practical solution.

Younger Thais seem to be better at English these days, despite all the failed government initiatives. I mean - this is Thailand. The government isn't going to help you. But you can still do what you want to do.

The internet is doing a great job of spreading English, just as books did when I was a kid (I had lots of books that weren't available in my native German - I had a very good reason to learn English that way...)

I am quite sure Germany now has a great deal of books for you now.

Good thing you stopped I thought the next thing you were going to say is have only one world government headed up by one person. And all regions can not go on daylight saving time.

[hellodolly]

MFA launches English camp for youth

BANGKOK, 1 May 2012 (NNT) – The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has launched the ‘MFA Camp: Beyond English’ program with an aim to enhance the English skills of Thai adolescents and their confidence in speaking the language.

Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul presided over the opening ceremony of the MFA Camp: Beyond English at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The camp is being attended by over 100 students who are studying in Mathayom 3-6 in Bangkok and the vicinities and have passed an English language examination at the Devawongse Varopakarn Institute of Foreign Affairs. The camp is being held between April 30 and May 3 at Cholapruek Resort in Nakhon Nayok province.

The Foreign Minister pointed out that the government has given major importance to the formation of the ASEAN Community. Thus, the four-day program was established to train Thai youth to be more assertive and more confident when communicating in English.

Mr. Surapong also stated that positive feedbacks from parents have prompted the ministry to consider expanding the English camp project to other areas of the country as well.

-- NNT 2012-05-01

Hogwash

One day in a four day camp of hand picked and tested students and the parents are all ready giving positive feedback. In all likelihood hoping for it to go for a month so they can have a month holiday while the Government baby sits there kids.