U.S. launches probe into video of U.S. Marines urinating on Afghan corpses

[Wallaby]

Link please.

http://www.opposingv...inating-taliban

I'd prefer a link from something credible, not a shock jock's opinion.

[flying]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law. As they're US marines we get the full set of apologia comparing them to the people that they're supposed to be morally superior to. If they are morally superior they should have kept their cocks in their pants.

The funny thing is anyone who has spoken out about this act on this thread are the ones being called apologist.....Odd eh?

Inferring that if we see this as a wrongful act that we are some how Taliban apologist.

I give up & realize there are some here that will wear the blinders for life in the name of false patriotism.

Edited January 15, 2012 by flying

[Ulysses G.]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law.

Well at least the usual radical leftists - who riot at the drop of a hat.

.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[koheesti]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law. As they're US marines we get the full set of apologia comparing them to the people that they're supposed to be morally superior to. If they are morally superior they should have kept their cocks in their pants.

Yes, the Brits are always on their best behaviour.

For the fallout - other news say that the Taliban itself are not really upset by it and said it won't harm peace talks.

"“It’s not a new thing that has happened. It’s normal with the American forces and their allies. The foreign forces have always discriminated and abused human rights in Afghanistan,” says Qari Yousef Ahmadi, a spokesman for the Taliban. "

csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2012/0112/Taliban-says-urination-video-won-t-harm-peace-talks.-Why-not

The Taliban talking about others abusing human rights in Afghanistan? What a sick joke.

[Wallaby]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law. As they're US marines we get the full set of apologia comparing them to the people that they're supposed to be morally superior to. If they are morally superior they should have kept their cocks in their pants.

The funny thing is anyone who has spoken out about this act on this thread are the ones being called apologist.....Odd eh?

Inferring that if we see this as a wrongful act that we are some how Taliban apologist.

I give up & realize there are some here that will wear the blinders for life in the name of false patriotism.

Yes they are quite odd. Same as those saying it doesn't matter because they are dead. Like it wouldn't matter if they cooked them up and ate them. The dead wouldn't care but the perpetrators of this deplorable act are not who I want representing me and I'd be much happier if they didn't.

Anyway, troops will soon be out of there and I'm sure it will be a better place after all these years fighing for thier freedom and a better way of life. Yeah right.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Wallaby

[jackr]

The 'victims' are dead, they will not be complaining. So what is the big deal - really - about?

So you wouldn't mind the Taliban pissing all over your dead brother/son? What a bunch of weirdos.

[koheesti]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

[Ulysses G.]

The 'victims' are dead, they will not be complaining. So what is the big deal - really - about?

So you wouldn't mind the Taliban pissing all over your dead brother/son?

I would mind. I do not like it that these Marines did what they did. However, it pales in comparison to cutting off the head of a live human being and is a very minor crime in the scheme of things. Frankly, all the hoopla about it is ridiculous when human beings are being hurt and dying every day.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[kerryk]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law. As they're US marines we get the full set of apologia comparing them to the people that they're supposed to be morally superior to. If they are morally superior they should have kept their cocks in their pants.

Full rigour, morally superior, cocks in pants! You are pulling our legs right? Did you ever google, naked UK marines?

[kerryk]

The 'victims' are dead, they will not be complaining. So what is the big deal - really - about?

So you wouldn't mind the Taliban pissing all over your dead brother/son? What a bunch of weirdos.

I'm not dead yet but I'm close so I went to that club in Pattaya and asked for the Marine special, thought I'd try it out see if it was so bad. I guess I'm a weirdo.

[flying]

Anyway, troops will soon be out of there and I'm sure it will be a better place after all these years fighing for thier freedom and a better way of life. Yeah right.

Actually "There" being Afghanistan...Sadly I do not think they are leaving anytime soon.

Unless of course we get lucky & Ron Paul gets elected President of the US

[kerryk]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

By that logic we should all be living by Sharia law. And then they win because that is what they want anyway.

[Steely Dan]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law. As they're US marines we get the full set of apologia comparing them to the people that they're supposed to be morally superior to. If they are morally superior they should have kept their cocks in their pants.

Yes, the Brits are always on their best behaviour.

For the fallout - other news say that the Taliban itself are not really upset by it and said it won't harm peace talks.

"“It’s not a new thing that has happened. It’s normal with the American forces and their allies. The foreign forces have always discriminated and abused human rights in Afghanistan,” says Qari Yousef Ahmadi, a spokesman for the Taliban. "

csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2012/0112/Taliban-says-urination-video-won-t-harm-peace-talks.-Why-not

The Taliban talking about others abusing human rights in Afghanistan? What a sick joke.

Indeed. There is one aspect of this case which is truly sickening; that a government who sent thousands of it's troops to die in operation Enduring freedom are now negotiating with the Taliban, presumably not about them promising to raise their standard of behaviour above that of 7th century savages but just concerning military disengagement with terrorists released from Gitmo to boot. The icing on the cake is the go between is a rabidly antisemitic and west hating Egyptian cleric and terrorist supporter who was only allowed to return to Egypt after Mubarak was overthrown.

And some of you chaps are getting worked up over a posthumous golden shower.

[flying]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

Well I would not limit the anger to Muslim's

Secondly it highlights a thought many have had............

In all this supposed war on terror that has been draining us here in the USA for over a decade

of resources,finances & young lives..............At the end of the day..............Safer?

Or more likely a target just for being an American anywhere in the world?

[flying]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

By that logic we should all be living by Sharia law. And then they win because that is what they want anyway.

I am not so sure.............

First off we would never live under any other countries thumb.

At the point of a REAL problem not an engineered one all of America is fairly well armed & ready.

As far as how *they* want to live in *their* country I could care less & let them have it

Those in that or other countries who do not want it can leave or defeat their oppressors same as we once did.

All this fighting a ghost crap has to stop. It has done nothing for anyone except made us poorer in every department.

Edited January 15, 2012 by flying

[kerryk]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

By that logic we should all be living by Sharia law. And then they win because that is what they want anyway.

I am not so sure.............

First off we would never live under any other countries thumb.

At the point of a REAL problem not an engineered one all of America is fairly well armed & ready.

As far as how *they* want to live in *their* country I could care less & let them have it

Those in that or other countries who do not want it can leave or defeat their oppressors same as we once did.

All this fighting a ghost crap has to stop. It has done nothing for anyone except made us poorer in every department.

I would agree with that and anyone who does not like it Pi** on em.

[bonobo]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law. As they're US marines we get the full set of apologia comparing them to the people that they're supposed to be morally superior to. If they are morally superior they should have kept their cocks in their pants.

The funny thing is anyone who has spoken out about this act on this thread are the ones being called apologist.....Odd eh?

Inferring that if we see this as a wrongful act that we are some how Taliban apologist.

I give up & realize there are some here that will wear the blinders for life in the name of false patriotism.

Looks to me that it is those who are crying for the crucifixion of these Marines are the one who are being called apologists. Just read the quote text you bolded.

And I have yet to read any post here nor any quote by a US government official which has said that these Marines should not be punished. In this thread, there have been those who have said that this act was not as serious as it is being made out to be, that this is not a major "war crime," but the general consensus is that the Marines did wrong, were stupid, and should face the consequences of their actions.

Bringing up acts committed by others, pointing out that they are young men in combat, only serves to put things into perspective. Mitigation does not change guilt to innocence in a court of law, but it can affect punishment.

[flying]

Looks to me that it is those who are crying for the crucifixion of these Marines are the one who are being called apologists. Just read the quote text you bolded.

Sorry for the confusion?

I think it was pretty clear I was referring to the one or two posters that always

call apologist on any posts that do not agree with US Foreign policies.

Not just this relatively small recent act.

So yes those that call for the crucifixion of the wrong doers are being called *Taliban* or what ever apologists as usual by the cheer leaders of false patriotism.

I should add you are not one of the posters I am referring to.

Edited January 15, 2012 by flying

[Ulysses G.]

Bringing up acts committed by others, pointing out that they are young men in combat, only serves to put things into perspective. Mitigation does not change guilt to innocence in a court of law, but it can affect punishment.

In my opinion they should be punished but politics should be ignored and the fact that they risked their lives for their country and that their offense was pretty minor should be strongly taken into consideration.

A few months in a harsh Marine Brig would be a lot more than they deserve - IMO - but should warn other soldiers against making the military look bad by pulling stupid stunts like this one..

Edited January 15, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[bonobo]

The 'victims' are dead, they will not be complaining. So what is the big deal - really - about?

So you wouldn't mind the Taliban pissing all over your dead brother/son? What a bunch of weirdos.

I think this argument, which is ongoing in this thread, is a red herring. No one wants their brother or son to be urinated on after they are killed, nor eaten, nor whatever else you can come up with. But the key factor, the trump card, is that no one wants their brother or son killed. That is the over-riding, over-reaching concern.

I would be devastated if my loved one was killed. I would be disgusted if I found out they desecrated his body. There is a difference. Being killed is a reflection that I have lost my loved one, hence devastated. Having him urinated on reflects on those who killed him, and while I would be disgusted, that only affects my opinion on them, not on my own loved one.

To make it clear, despite I think being labeled an apologist here, I am disgusted by this incident as well. I served in uniform for four years in the Navy and 30 years as a US Marine, and this brings shame on my uniform. It brings shame on the US. And I am angry about it. But despite my personal connection to the Corps, I also have to put it in perspective. These young Marines did wrong, they were stupid, but they are hardly hardened war criminals whose heads need to be taken and put up on stakes. The punishment should fit the crime, and this "crime" is really not that serious in the ground truth.

At the risk of one more analogy, the hockey rioters in Vancouver brought great shame to that lovely city. They hurt the reputation of their hometown. But the vast majority of the "rioters" were simply guilty of bad judgment, not of serious crimes. Their punishments should be lighter even if the consequences of their actions brought shame and probably loss of future revenue to the region.

[kerryk]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law. As they're US marines we get the full set of apologia comparing them to the people that they're supposed to be morally superior to. If they are morally superior they should have kept their cocks in their pants.

The funny thing is anyone who has spoken out about this act on this thread are the ones being called apologist.....Odd eh?

Inferring that if we see this as a wrongful act that we are some how Taliban apologist.

I give up & realize there are some here that will wear the blinders for life in the name of false patriotism.

Looks to me that it is those who are crying for the crucifixion of these Marines are the one who are being called apologists. Just read the quote text you bolded.

And I have yet to read any post here nor any quote by a US government official which has said that these Marines should not be punished. In this thread, there have been those who have said that this act was not as serious as it is being made out to be, that this is not a major "war crime," but the general consensus is that the Marines did wrong, were stupid, and should face the consequences of their actions.

Bringing up acts committed by others, pointing out that they are young men in combat, only serves to put things into perspective. Mitigation does not change guilt to innocence in a court of law, but it can affect punishment.

I worked in middle management for a company a long time ago when the accountant who had assumed greater importance than was warranted went on a kick of stopping theft. He sent out a memo forbidding long distance phone calls for lower level management. One of my managers made a long distance call and the accountant wanted to fire him. During a meeting the accountant had all the folks worked up that my manager had stolen company money by making a long distance phone call. Everyone was jumping on the theft bandwagon when at the end of the meeting when they were going to fire the offending person I happened to ask how much the call cost. The account didn't want to say. I pressed him. Finally he said, “ten cents.” He wanted to fire a man who had worked for the company for ten years for ten cents. I think it is the same thing.

[wxyz]

If those marines were UK marines I suspect that the whole of the UK would be up in arms expecting them to face the full rigour of the law. As they're US marines we get the full set of apologia comparing them to the people that they're supposed to be morally superior to. If they are morally superior they should have kept their cocks in their pants.

Yes, the Brits are always on their best behaviour.

hahaha good one

[koheesti]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

By that logic we should all be living by Sharia law. And then they win because that is what they want anyway.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

[koheesti]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

Well I would not limit the anger to Muslim's

A lot of people might be angry but I don't see anyone other than the Muslims possibly being motivated to do something violent in response to it.

[Ulysses G.]

Don't forget apologists for radical Islam. Most of the want-to-be terrorists in the US and UK are just losers and rejects who want to hurt someone/anyone to justify their own miserable lives.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[kerryk]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

By that logic we should all be living by Sharia law. And then they win because that is what they want anyway.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

Because you are doing things designed not to upset nutters in the UK or US. These nutters want everyone to live by Sharia law. So to not upset them we should all adopt Sharia law.

[wxyz]

i am sure we will all be celebrating when they return to executing raped women for adultry in their football stadium

their organization is a war crime, their organization is a human rights abuse

but you knew than already

[wxyz]

One thing I haven't read here is how it might motivate some nutter already living in a Western country. The Taliban might already hate the other invaders and were going to shoot at our boys anyway, what about the person (yes, Muslim) in London, New York etc who gets fired up over this and decides to get back at any "infidel"?

By that logic we should all be living by Sharia law. And then they win because that is what they want anyway.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

Because you are doing things designed not to upset nutters in the UK or US. These nutters want everyone to live by Sharia law. So to not upset them we should all adopt Sharia law.

it is sad to have to explain the obvious

[Steely Dan]

i am sure we will all be celebrating when they return to executing raped women for adultry in their football stadium

their organization is a war crime, their organization is a human rights abuse

but you knew than already

Is this what you are referring to?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-16543036

Two high profile cases of violence have sparked domestic and international outcry over the treatment of Afghan women, but campaigners fear a winding down of the military campaign will mean the international community will no longer be interested.

So the realpolitik is the U.S leaders have to be seen to be outraged over a trifling incident and upsetting terrorists for fear of jeopardizing a quick exit, so much for human rights and enduring freedom.

[Scott]

I think we can dispense with the discussion of whether urinating on a corpse is a war crime. It could likely be a war crime, since desecration of a body is considered a war crime. As another poster has mentioned, stealing a candy bar is also a crime, so it is a matter of the seriousness of the crime.

Please stay on topic.