Stagnation In General

[folium]

I would also posit that sub fora are generally even more sluggish than general so wouldn't people return to general eventually?

Not the Chiang Mai forum. Very often a current topic drops to the second page within a single day.

(There's a topic with the last post at 3pm this afternoon, it's now 11pm and I have to go find it on page two.. )

That's because CM heaves with folk with nothing better to do than clog up TV.

Yes, but we are fortunate enough to not have to work.

Early retirement often suits all concerned.

[zzaa09]

Early retirement often suits all concerned.

Retirement from what?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

And of course with Wikipedia being off line today many of our resident academics have taken a short sabbatical.

It's not off-line from Thailand. Also not the English version. Many other websites though are off-line to the whole world.

[Tywais]

It's not off-line from Thailand. Also not the English version.

The English version is indirectly offline from Thailand, it redirects after a few seconds. They are doing a javascript redirect to the below page. I've tested the other language versions and they do not do the redirect but have a banner regarding it. If your javascript is disabled or similar blocking than it will show (English version).

[necronx99]

Perhaps there is something limiting the extent and breadth of discussion?

Comment regarding the nature of enthusiastic moderation and it's effect on freeflowing discussion between like minded individuals not posted.

[Mobi]

As you can see from my post count I used to be a fairly prolific poster, but these days I restrict my posts to a few rare forays.

Why?

Well, in no particular order:

1.It has become virtually impossible to make the most innocuous post imaginable without someone (often more than one) having a go at you, passing spiteful comments and casting aspersions on your motives and making wild unjustified accusations and insults.

Intelligent, heated debate is one thing, but making ridiculous, snide and hurtful comments is quite another. Quite frankly, I believe it puts off many people - both old and new -from posting anything at all.

2. It has become virtually impossible to hold an ‘intelligent, spirited debate’ on any serious but controversial subject without the thread getting prematurely closed.

3.There used to be a large pool of intelligent, erudite posters/debaters who would make any topic exciting and interesting to participate in; but virtually all of these legendary members have long since departed to pastures new.

A vast majority of them have, through the years, been banned, and those that haven’t, have simply moved on, or like me, have had their wings clipped so severely that these days their occasional ventures onto Thai Visa are a mere shadow of their former selves.

4. ‘General Topics’ is by and away the most followed forum. If you want to have any subject reach the largest possible audience, you need to put it in the General Topics forum. Yet, every time a topic is posted which would potentially have great interest to a large number of Thai Visa members, it is immediately transferred to an ‘appropriate’ sub-forum, where invariably it quickly dies a death due to lack of readership and interest.

Thus, you will find key subjects on health, or pets, or Visas or land ownership, or banking, business, computers, internet or murders and so on and so forth… immediately transferred to another forum without due regard to those who only read the general topics forum.

If you are not subscribed to read these local or subject specific forums, you will never see the thread. Just because a murder takes place in Phuket, does that mean that we, in Pattaya or Bangkok, are not interested? Yet we may never read the Phuket specific forum. I could go on and on, but hopefully I have made my point. In fact in my humble opinion, if a subject started on a sub forum is considered to be an important matter that may be of interest to all members, then the subject should be transferred TO the General Topics forum to ensure maximum exposure and participation and not from it.

(I have no doubt that my above comments will receive the usual nasty and inane responses that I have come to expect from a certain section of Thai Visa members whose only motive , it would seem, is to be malicious…)

[OccamsRazor]

Thus, you will find key subjects on health, or pets, or Visas or land ownership, or banking, business, computers, internet or murders and so on and so forth… immediately transferred to another forum without due regard to those who only read the general topics forum.

So let me get this straight, do away with all forums/subforums and have just one giant General forum? Within a few seconds all topics/replies will be off page one and start getting buried quickly. It would be chaos, where do you draw the line. The function of each forum is spelled out and General shows this - A forum for general interest topics related to Thailand only. Can't see Internet, Health, Visas, etc as 'General interest, they are quite specific'.

[canuckamuck]

As you can see from my post count I used to be a fairly prolific poster, but these days I restrict my posts to a few rare forays.

Why?

Well, in no particular order:

1.It has become virtually impossible to make the most innocuous post imaginable without someone (often more than one) having a go at you, passing spiteful comments and casting aspersions on your motives and making wild unjustified accusations and insults.

Intelligent, heated debate is one thing, but making ridiculous, snide and hurtful comments is quite another. Quite frankly, I believe it puts off many people - both old and new -from posting anything at all.

2. It has become virtually impossible to hold an ‘intelligent, spirited debate’ on any serious but controversial subject without the thread getting prematurely closed.

3.There used to be a large pool of intelligent, erudite posters/debaters who would make any topic exciting and interesting to participate in; but virtually all of these legendary members have long since departed to pastures new.

A vast majority of them have, through the years, been banned, and those that haven’t, have simply moved on, or like me, have had their wings clipped so severely that these days their occasional ventures onto Thai Visa are a mere shadow of their former selves.

4. ‘General Topics’ is by and away the most followed forum. If you want to have any subject reach the largest possible audience, you need to put it in the General Topics forum. Yet, every time a topic is posted which would potentially have great interest to a large number of Thai Visa members, it is immediately transferred to an ‘appropriate’ sub-forum, where invariably it quickly dies a death due to lack of readership and interest.

Thus, you will find key subjects on health, or pets, or Visas or land ownership, or banking, business, computers, internet or murders and so on and so forth… immediately transferred to another forum without due regard to those who only read the general topics forum.

If you are not subscribed to read these local or subject specific forums, you will never see the thread. Just because a murder takes place in Phuket, does that mean that we, in Pattaya or Bangkok, are not interested? Yet we may never read the Phuket specific forum. I could go on and on, but hopefully I have made my point. In fact in my humble opinion, if a subject started on a sub forum is considered to be an important matter that may be of interest to all members, then the subject should be transferred TO the General Topics forum to ensure maximum exposure and participation and not from it.

(I have no doubt that my above comments will receive the usual nasty and inane responses that I have come to expect from a certain section of Thai Visa members whose only motive , it would seem, is to be malicious…)

Very well put Mobi. I too greatly miss some of the posting legends of years gone by; Bendix where are you??. And I to have seen too many fantastic threads terminated prematurely. I offer no solution to fix it though, I understand the egg shells that must be walked with a forum of this scale. Perhaps TV is just too succesful. And of course it is a shame Thailand does not value free speech.

[Mobi]

Thus, you will find key subjects on health, or pets, or Visas or land ownership, or banking, business, computers, internet or murders and so on and so forth… immediately transferred to another forum without due regard to those who only read the general topics forum.

So let me get this straight, do away with all forums/subforums and have just one giant General forum? Within a few seconds all topics/replies will be off page one and start getting buried quickly. It would be chaos, where do you draw the line. The function of each forum is spelled out and General shows this - A forum for general interest topics related to Thailand only. Can't see Internet, Health, Visas, etc as 'General interest, they are quite specific'.

Allow me to give a few examples to demonstration my point.

A thread about the rearing of particular breed of dog, or how to cure someone's pet cat, specifically belongs in the pet forum. A thread about government plans to round up and destroy any dog that is not micro-chipped more properly belongs in the General forum where the subject would be of interest to a wider audience.

Similarly, a thread about a particular problem or query over someone's visa belongs in the Visa forum, but a thread about proposed major government changes to visa or work permit rules rules belongs in the general forum.

A thread about someone's specific illness belongs in the health forum, but a discussion about bird flu or some other pandemic belongs in the general forum.

A query over land ownership belongs in the property forum, but a change in government regulations on foreigners owning land belongs in the general forum.

I could go on and on, and all the above examples have actually occurred.

It doesn't take much wit to identify those threads which are of interest to readers in general and not to just the few members who read 'subject- specific' forums.

The OP was commenting on the apparent stagnation in the general topics forum and I was offering some suggestions as to the 'why'.

In the past, I believe far more discretion was made in allowing threads of wide interest to remain in the General forum, whereas these days, as soon as a mod finds a thread which may fit into one of the sub forum categories, it is immediately transferred without any regard for the general interest issue.

Of course many should be so transferred, but by no means all. It is a matter of common sense and It is just stifling debate - encouraging stagnation, if you like.

[Tywais]

In the past, I believe far more discretion was made in allowing threads of wide interest to remain in the General forum, whereas these days, as soon as a mod finds a thread which may fit into one of the sub forum categories, it is immediately transferred without any regard for the general interest issue.

Of course many should be so transferred, but by no means all. It is a matter of common sense and It is just stifling debate - encouraging stagnation, if you like.

I'll present this discussion to the mods forum to see what can be worked out. It is a complex issue and the 'grey' topics perhaps should be given more thought. Thanks for your input Mobi.

[Mobi]

Very well put Mobi. I too greatly miss some of the posting legends of years gone by; Bendix where are you??. And I to have seen too many fantastic threads terminated prematurely. I offer no solution to fix it though, I understand the egg shells that must be walked with a forum of this scale. Perhaps TV is just too succesful. And of course it is a shame Thailand does not value free speech.

Thank you, and just to put the other side of this debate, I too can offer no real solutions. Thai Visa has become so huge and these days there is a difficult path to tread to avoid upsetting our host country.

Although I have railed in vain against moderation issues, I do understand the need. Maybe Thai Visa is simply become too big to allow the types of debates and 'stimulating discussions' of bygone days.

However, I do mourn the passing of Thai Visa's 'hay days'...

[JurgenG]

Thank you, and just to put the other side of this debate, I too can offer no real solutions. Thai Visa has become so huge and these days there is a difficult path to tread to avoid upsetting our host country.

While I agree with most of your last two posts, I don't agree with this part.

Most good threads are derailed because rule # 8 is not enforced "In using Thai Visa I agree: .... Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais."

How can you have a constructive debate when a number of very vocal posters have nothing to contribute but very negative views about Thailand ? I can understand that well adjusted people feel uncomfortable to contribute to such discussion. Especially since these negative people have usually very limited knowledge about Thailand, hence probably their very negative opinion. That may also explain why some of your favorite posters have faded away.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

In the past, I believe far more discretion was made in allowing threads of wide interest to remain in the General forum, whereas these days, as soon as a mod finds a thread which may fit into one of the sub forum categories, it is immediately transferred without any regard for the general interest issue.

Of course many should be so transferred, but by no means all. It is a matter of common sense and It is just stifling debate - encouraging stagnation, if you like.

I'll present this discussion to the mods forum to see what can be worked out. It is a complex issue and the 'grey' topics perhaps should be given more thought. Thanks for your input Mobi.

My suggestion for gray topics would be to give it a run in General first, then move it to the relevant sub-forum for any additional comments and then eventually remain there in the appropriate area so it comes up when someone searches that particular forum?

Edited January 19, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[nocturn]

mobi, thank you very much for your input. you have manged to say pretty much exactly what i wanted to.

i too miss those bygone days where thai visa used to make me laugh out loud or presented a view of thailand that made me reconsider my own experience here.

Edited January 19, 2012 by nocturn

[nocturn]

Very well put Mobi. I too greatly miss some of the posting legends of years gone by; Bendix where are you??. And I to have seen too many fantastic threads terminated prematurely. I offer no solution to fix it though, I understand the egg shells that must be walked with a forum of this scale. Perhaps TV is just too succesful. And of course it is a shame Thailand does not value free speech.

Thank you, and just to put the other side of this debate, I too can offer no real solutions. Thai Visa has become so huge and these days there is a difficult path to tread to avoid upsetting our host country.

Although I have railed in vain against moderation issues, I do understand the need. Maybe Thai Visa is simply become too big to allow the types of debates and 'stimulating discussions' of bygone days.

However, I do mourn the passing of Thai Visa's 'hay days'...

agree with both of you, and where the hell did bendix go?

Edited January 19, 2012 by nocturn

[sbk]

Very well put Mobi. I too greatly miss some of the posting legends of years gone by; Bendix where are you??. And I to have seen too many fantastic threads terminated prematurely. I offer no solution to fix it though, I understand the egg shells that must be walked with a forum of this scale. Perhaps TV is just too succesful. And of course it is a shame Thailand does not value free speech.

Thank you, and just to put the other side of this debate, I too can offer no real solutions. Thai Visa has become so huge and these days there is a difficult path to tread to avoid upsetting our host country.

Although I have railed in vain against moderation issues, I do understand the need. Maybe Thai Visa is simply become too big to allow the types of debates and 'stimulating discussions' of bygone days.

However, I do mourn the passing of Thai Visa's 'hay days'...

agree with both of you, and where the hell did bendix go?

He isn't currently living in Thailand, but I will be sure to let him know he is missed

Mobi, I see where you are coming from but your first two points are, well, in my extensive experience wading through the threads, one and the same.

1.It has become virtually impossible to make the most innocuous post imaginable without someone (often more than one) having a go at you, passing spiteful comments and casting aspersions on your motives and making wild unjustified accusations and insults.

Intelligent, heated debate is one thing, but making ridiculous, snide and hurtful comments is quite another. Quite frankly, I believe it puts off many people - both old and new -from posting anything at all.

2. It has become virtually impossible to hold an ‘intelligent, spirited debate’ on any serious but controversial subject without the thread getting prematurely closed.

Threads get closed because of point number 1. I, and other mods, make efforts to keep people civil but sometimes people just go waaay out of control and its more work than we can manage to keep a thread civil and civilized.

[Old Croc]

Something that annoys me (just one sbk!), is where someone starts a thread about about a newsworthy event (perhaps they are an eyewitness), and people start giving their views on the subject. Oft times these posts are fresh, valuable and knowledgable.

Then when the story is posted by one of the affiliate newspapers, it is cut and pasted into one of TVs news forums and the original thread is usually just closed with a note that the subject is continued elsewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original posts usually aren't relocated into the new thread.

[craigt3365]

Hey Mobi. Several great posts. And a great reply by SBK.

As you know, I'm one of the mods for the General forum. We've met a few times before, so you know a little bit about me and what kind of person I am. For better or worse.

First, this topic is a great one. I can guarantee you, the mods and management of TV are following this thread. Good stuff!

As you have pointed out, it's a fine line we walk here as mods. Trying to figure out if a topic needs to be moved, needs to be deleted, or just left alone. Everybody has their own opinion. What I think is questionable, others might think is just fine. And unfortunately, we deal with a lot of difficult members. Many of which are members for a very short amount of time, and you never really get to see their posts. Happens all the time. And I guarantee, you wouldn't believe what gets posted, and removed almost immediately. Really crazy stuff.

I was a member for years before becoming a mod. I found TV to be a fantastic source of information for my life and travels here in Thailand. At first when I was just a tourist, and now that I live here full time. It truly is the #1 place to find out what your searching for. At least, IMHO.

Want to know where to go in Pattaya to buy a refrigerator? We've got a great sub forum with dozens of members waiting to help you out.

And here lies the rub. Should that topic be left in General, or moved to the Pattaya sub forum? As you have pointed out, for sure move it to the sub forum. Other topics, like what is the best car to buy here in Phuket, fits into several different areas. The Phuket sub forum, as well as potentially the Thailand Motor forum (I.E. What's the best car to buy in Thailand?). Tough choice.

What I have found, is there are "specialists" that follow many of the sub forums, and NEVER look at General. As a normal member, I never followed the General forum. If I had travel related questions, I went to that sub forum. Questions about a restaurant in Bangkok? I went to that sub forum. But I NEVER looked at the General forum. Never.

Another example is moderator Sheryl. She's a busy lady, and primarily focuses on the Health, Body and Medicine forum. So if you have a topic on, say, malaria, and leave it in general, you're going to get some pretty good replies, some really crazy ones, but none by Sheryl, an expert. Her focus is in that sub forum. Same applies to the Visa forum, where we have mods who are up to the date on the current stuff here. So that's why we try to move topics to the various sub forums if they fit there. We try to do the best, but we are only humans. Bear with us, submit a report, whatever. I know almost all of the mods and they are really great people. Well, we'll have to talk about Raro....

Craig

So, anyway, keep the suggestions coming. I'll be reading the posts here for sure. At least until I head to Egypt next week for 6 weeks! Hopefully....

[sbk]

Something that annoys me (just one sbk!), is where someone starts a thread about about a newsworthy event (perhaps they are an eyewitness), and people start giving their views on the subject. Oft times these posts are fresh, valuable and knowledgable.

Then when the story is posted by one of the affiliate newspapers, it is cut and pasted into one of TVs news forums and the original thread is usually just closed with a note that the subject is continued elsewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original posts usually aren't relocated into the new thread.

We've been informed merging is a no-no, sorry Old Croc. Wish we could as I think it would be much better but it messes with the google search (or something like that -anyway, we've been told its a no-no)

[george]

W

Something that annoys me (just one sbk!), is where someone starts a thread about about a newsworthy event (perhaps they are an eyewitness), and people start giving their views on the subject. Oft times these posts are fresh, valuable and knowledgable.

Then when the story is posted by one of the affiliate newspapers, it is cut and pasted into one of TVs news forums and the original thread is usually just closed with a note that the subject is continued elsewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original posts usually aren't relocated into the new thread.

We've been informed merging is a no-no, sorry Old Croc. Wish we could as I think it would be much better but it messes with the google search (or something like that -anyway, we've been told its a no-no)

If you see this happens, please just use the report button and a mod can put a link to the previous discussion in the news thread, if relevant. We could try this. The news guys are pretty busy with monitoring the news feed, but I know we have done this in the past.

Thanks all for very good input so far!

[craigt3365]

W

Something that annoys me (just one sbk!), is where someone starts a thread about about a newsworthy event (perhaps they are an eyewitness), and people start giving their views on the subject. Oft times these posts are fresh, valuable and knowledgable.

Then when the story is posted by one of the affiliate newspapers, it is cut and pasted into one of TVs news forums and the original thread is usually just closed with a note that the subject is continued elsewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original posts usually aren't relocated into the new thread.

We've been informed merging is a no-no, sorry Old Croc. Wish we could as I think it would be much better but it messes with the google search (or something like that -anyway, we've been told its a no-no)

If you see this happens, please just use the report button and a mod can put a link to the previous discussion in the news thread, if relevant. We could try this. The news guys are pretty busy with monitoring the news feed, but I know we have done this in the past.

Thanks all for very good input so far!

And I still find TV to be the best source for news here in the Kingdom! Hats off to Webfact.

[zzaa09]

And I still find TV to be the best source for news here in the Kingdom! Hats off to Webfact.

A bias and subjective source, nonetheless.

There is a wealth of counter and alternative news/info sources regarding the Kingdom, btw.

[craigt3365]

And I still find TV to be the best source for news here in the Kingdom! Hats off to Webfact.

A bias and subjective source, nonetheless.

There is a wealth of counter and alternative news/info sources regarding the Kingdom, btw.

Understood. I don't have a lot of time every day to search multiple sites. I do a quick scan of the BKK Post, take a look at BBC or CNN, then open up Thaivisa to see what's going on not only nationally, but also in my area, Pattaya. Sure, there are plenty of other sources, but it works for me.

Biased? I'm a volunteer! Honestly, I'm trying to give back what's been given to me over the years.

[yermanee]

1.It has become virtually impossible to make the most innocuous post imaginable without someone (often more than one) having a go at you, passing spiteful comments and casting aspersions on your motives and making wild unjustified accusations and insults.

The main reason why I stopped posting on many different sub-forums is just because of what you describe.

I visit this forum for some entertainment, and where I can to reply to questions asked, but only if I deem the info I can provide to be accurate.

I do not come here to be ridiculed, insulted etc. if my opinion does not comply with expectations from posters.

Anyway this post just to keep the topic alive (or has everything been said ?)

Yermanee

[TaoNow]

First of all, I believe that OP is referring to the "General" section of the TV Forum and not the other sub-forums.

I don't think s/he is questionning the Mods decisions on allocation of topics.

As for stagnation, don't you guys (sic) get it? The only people who regularly post on the General section of TV are the misfit ex-pats who haven't figured out (or don't care) how to integrate into Thai society.

They don't learn the language or the culture. They don't have a variety of Thai friends or acquantainces who are not bought. They come to the Forum because they have no place else to go. So of course the topics repeat themselves or stagnate. And degenerate into mud-fights

It seems to me that the Forum was originally created to help newcomers adjust to life in Thailand, or decide whether they wanted to come here. Some of the Forum sub-communities are still excellent in that way (Visas, Health, Buddhism, Thai Language, etc). But the General and regional sub-forums are increasingly a wasteland of the ignorant and whinge-mongers.

For those always posting in the "General" domain, get a life outside the Forum you guys, and then come back to report to TV on how much you've learned about living in Thailand, and how easy it is to adjust to life here if you learn to adapt.

Now flame me.

Edited January 20, 2012 by TaoNow

[IanForbes]

First of all, I believe that OP is referring to the "General" section of the TV Forum and not the other sub-forums.

I don't think s/he is questionning the Mods decisions on allocation of topics.

As for stagnation, don't you guys (sic) get it? The only people who regularly post on the General section of TV are the misfit ex-pats who haven't figured out (or don't care) how to integrate into Thai society.

They don't learn the language or the culture. They don't have a variety of Thai friends or acquantainces who are not bought. They come to the Forum because they have no place else to go. So of course the topics repeat themselves or stagnate. And degenerate into mud-fights

It seems to me that the Forum was originally created to help newcomers adjust to life in Thailand, or decide whether they wanted to come here. Some of the Forum sub-communities are still excellent in that way (Visas, Health, Buddhism, Thai Language, etc). But the General and regional sub-forums are increasingly a wasteland of the ignorant and whinge-mongers.

For those always posting in the "General" domain, get a life outside the Forum you guys, and then come back to report to TV on how much you've learned about living in Thailand, and how easy it is to adjust to life here if you learn to adapt.

Now flame me.

I've never flamed anyone in my life on any forum, so I am not about to start now.

However, as foreigners we are not ALLOWED to integrate into Thai society. We will forever be misfits here. That doesn't mean we can't ENJOY being misfits. I just take the bad with the good. Today I had to pay a bribe to a policeman for doing something I KNEW was illegal... turning right across traffic instead of driving 3 km out of my way. A quick apology and a 100 baht note made everything go away. In Canada I'd be going to jail if I tried to bribe a policeman, and an illegal turn would cost me about $100 (3000 baht).

[smokie36]

Welcome back Ian!

[Ulysses G.]

Welcome back Ian!

+1

[theviking]

Just hold hands and sing... combaya my lord

[webfact]

And I still find TV to be the best source for news here in the Kingdom! Hats off to Webfact.

A bias and subjective source, nonetheless.

There is a wealth of counter and alternative news/info sources regarding the Kingdom, btw.

we are not allowed by many sources to post or to quote them

we do not take the risk to get shut-down within a week!

easy to find stuff and post it. Not so easy when you get sued of shut down

members can always open topics in General if they feel we do not provide enough information