UK pensions

[jacky54]

well I never knew the average pensioner income was so large, 21K I don't know anyone on that much!

There is still a gap of around 25 per cent between the average worker’s income (£28,000 a year) and that of the average pensioner (£21,000). The UK state pension languishes far below that provided in most developed countries, and it is all that many pensioners have to live on.

[transam]

well I never knew the average pensioner income was so large, 21K I don't know anyone on that much!

There is still a gap of around 25 per cent between the average worker’s income (£28,000 a year) and that of the average pensioner (£21,000). The UK state pension languishes far below that provided in most developed countries, and it is all that many pensioners have to live on.

Weeeell, think the UK Gov is sending so much cash out of the country to places that have nothing to do with Mr & Mrs, UK that pensions really are on the back burner...Seems UK Gov have forgotten how the UK came to be a WoW UK, mainly because of the old folk they now penalise..

[i claudius]

Well being an old cynic ,I think you have 2 hopes,and one of them is Bob,but great for trying and as for the average pension being 21k ,can anyone tell me which planet that is on ,because I want to go there

Edited November 17, 2015 by i claudius

[nontabury]

Well being an old cynic ,I think you have 2 hopes,and one of them is Bob,but great for trying and as for the average pension being 21k ,can anyone tell me which planet that is on ,because I want to go there

Maybe they mean the average pension, en-joyed by pensioned off M.P's .

"No" on second thoughts that cannot be so, as many ex-M.P's obtain a pension far in excess of that amount. Google is your friend.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

I think the article is suggesting that the average pensioner income is £21000. That is not to say that the average pension is £21000 but rather that the average income of each pensioner derived from all pensions i e state, personal (private) and occupational, is £21000.

[i claudius]

I think the article is suggesting that the average pensioner income is £21000. That is not to say that the average pension is £21000 but rather that the average income of each pensioner derived from all pensions i e state, personal (private) and occupational, is £21000.

Public sector workers I know over here enjoy good pensions,private sector ones were all stolen by Gormlas Brown,Tony Blair's mate in the working mans labour party,so called

[transam]

I think the article is suggesting that the average pensioner income is £21000. That is not to say that the average pension is £21000 but rather that the average income of each pensioner derived from all pensions i e state, personal (private) and occupational, is £21000.

Hmmmm, fink that average was taken taking into consideration politicians hand out and what l get...

[theoldgit]

Well being an old cynic, I think you have 2 hopes, and one of them is Bob,but great for trying and as for the average pension being 21k, can anyone tell me which planet that is on, because I want to go there

I don't think the article is saying that the average pension is £21k, it's suggesting that the average pensioners income is around that figure, it would be taking into account other income from investments, savings and the like.

I don't think that it's suggested that people could survive on only their State Pension.

I do know a number of people whose actual pensions far exceed that £21k figure, and they're not retired MP's, isn't that how averages are worked out?

An article in the Independent last month was suggesting that UK based pensioners, again on average, have an average income over and above what an employed person receives, whilst articles like this are in the public domain I suspect there wouldn't be any political will to address the frozen pension issue, indeed I'm pretty sure the triple lock on the State Pension, for those living in the UK, is vulnerable.

[chiang mai]

I agree that "triple lock" is at risk, government cost cutting plus deflation, plus negative CPI mean it's unsustainable

[Liquorice]

Well being an old cynic, I think you have 2 hopes, and one of them is Bob,but great for trying and as for the average pension being 21k, can anyone tell me which planet that is on, because I want to go there

I don't think the article is saying that the average pension is £21k, it's suggesting that the average pensioners income is around that figure, it would be taking into account other income from investments, savings and the like.

I don't think that it's suggested that people could survive on only their State Pension.

I do know a number of people whose actual pensions far exceed that £21k figure, and they're not retired MP's, isn't that how averages are worked out?

An article in the Independent last month was suggesting that UK based pensioners, again on average, have an average income over and above what an employed person receives, whilst articles like this are in the public domain I suspect there wouldn't be any political will to address the frozen pension issue, indeed I'm pretty sure the triple lock on the State Pension, for those living in the UK, is vulnerable.

Government statisticians mislead the public into the belief that the Pension systems in the UK are doing well by using a 'mean' average across the board.

That average doesn't give a true reflection of pension incomes because it takes in the 10% of the rich or privileged who receive annual pensions way above the normal average, such as bankers who are paid off with ridiculous amounts of annual pensions.

There are 3 methods of finding an average.

The 'mean' average

The 'median' average

The 'mode' average

The "mean" is the "average" you're used to, where you add up all the numbers and then divide by the number of numbers. The "median" is the "middle" value in the list of numbers. To find the median, your numbers have to be listed in numerical order, so you may have to rewrite your list first. The "mode" is the value that occurs most often. If no number is repeated, then there is no mode for the list.

I'll give an example using 10 peoples annual pensions figures (multiply by thousands) using the 'mean' average.

4 people on basic state pension of 8.

3 people on basic state pension plus a small top up from private/company pensions of 12,13,14.

2 people on basic state pension plus a final salary pension of 20,25.

1 person on basic state pension plus a privileged pay off pension of 100.

So 8+8+8+8+12+13++14+20+25+100 = 216 divide by 10 = 21.6 (thousand per annum)

That is what the government would have you believe the average pensioner is receiving, but it is artificially inflated by the top 10% earners.

The 'mode' average is the number that appears most often, in this case 8.(thousand per annum)

That figure is artificially low because the majority, but not all receive that figure

The much truer and accurate figure of an average is the 'median' method, (so they taught me at College)

That is the middle value of the figures used in the calculation.

In this case the middle would be between the figure 12 (5th) and figure 13 (6th).

12 + 13 divided by 2 = 12.5 (thousands)

So it is far more likely that the average pensioner is receiving 12.5 thousand per annum, way below the 'mean' average of 21.5 thousand.

That would represent the state pension and a smaller additional income from investment.in a private/company pension scheme.

[sandyf]

Well being an old cynic, I think you have 2 hopes, and one of them is Bob,but great for trying and as for the average pension being 21k, can anyone tell me which planet that is on, because I want to go there

I don't think the article is saying that the average pension is £21k, it's suggesting that the average pensioners income is around that figure, it would be taking into account other income from investments, savings and the like.

I don't think that it's suggested that people could survive on only their State Pension.

I do know a number of people whose actual pensions far exceed that £21k figure, and they're not retired MP's, isn't that how averages are worked out?

An article in the Independent last month was suggesting that UK based pensioners, again on average, have an average income over and above what an employed person receives, whilst articles like this are in the public domain I suspect there wouldn't be any political will to address the frozen pension issue, indeed I'm pretty sure the triple lock on the State Pension, for those living in the UK, is vulnerable.

A friend of mine, about the same age, was made redundant just after he turned 50 and picked up an index linked pension more than my salary at the time. Obviously being contracted out he is just on basic state pension and considers it as petty cash.

If you have never been in a company pension it can be difficult to comprehend how affluent some pensioners are. The reality is that many do have to survive on the state pension alone.

[Liquorice]

Well being an old cynic, I think you have 2 hopes, and one of them is Bob,but great for trying and as for the average pension being 21k, can anyone tell me which planet that is on, because I want to go there

I don't think the article is saying that the average pension is £21k, it's suggesting that the average pensioners income is around that figure, it would be taking into account other income from investments, savings and the like.

I don't think that it's suggested that people could survive on only their State Pension.

I do know a number of people whose actual pensions far exceed that £21k figure, and they're not retired MP's, isn't that how averages are worked out?

An article in the Independent last month was suggesting that UK based pensioners, again on average, have an average income over and above what an employed person receives, whilst articles like this are in the public domain I suspect there wouldn't be any political will to address the frozen pension issue, indeed I'm pretty sure the triple lock on the State Pension, for those living in the UK, is vulnerable.

A friend of mine, about the same age, was made redundant just after he turned 50 and picked up an index linked pension more than my salary at the time. Obviously being contracted out he is just on basic state pension and considers it as petty cash.

If you have never been in a company pension it can be difficult to comprehend how affluent some pensioners are. The reality is that many do have to survive on the state pension alone.

There are also many women who never or hardly contributed to the scheme due to being a full time mothers and housewife.

As widows they receive a part pension based on their husbands NI contributions, the remainder being made up from benefits of one kind or another.

I suspect those figures aren't included in the 'average' pension income.

[i claudius]

My sister who is in the public sector and quite high up will in 2 years when she retires at 58 will get a pension of over 80k a year, she will when at retirement age get her old age pension , also she will get yearly rises , so some have it better than others

[denby45]

I've reached the grand old age of 50 and realize that I'd better start putting something away for my retirement at 70 or there abouts.

I worked in the UK for 10 years before coming to work in Thailand.

Can anyone be so kind to advise me the first thing I should do to start paying the missed NI contributions?

Does anyone have a phone number or email address of the correct authorities in the UK to contact.

Hopefully, I'll not be hit with a few thousand pound bill but just pay the weekly/monthly fee.

Much appreciated

SCJ

The first thing you need to do is establish 10 years of contributions, anything less and you are not entitled to any state pension. You would need to make up a further 25 years to get the full pension and that could be quite expensive. You would need to decide if the expense is worth it or put the money somewhere else which my produce a better return.

Yes your first step would be to establish your former years' contributions. You need to ask for a statement from the DWP. Rather than try to explain here it would be best if you perused the website.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions

One thing you can do is to back pay up to 6 years (starting from this year). As you only have probably 16 year before your retirement age that is the best you are going to be able to accumulate. If you add the 10+6+16 you will have a total of 32 years. In this case you will receive 32/35ths. of full pension when you retire. Make sure you declare that you are self employed in Thailand and therefore will pay Class 2 instead of Class 3 and save a boat load of money. As far as an investment is concerned, I view it as the best risk free (providing the government can come up with the money) investment around. You don't have to take my word for it just do the Sums.

Hope this helps

Den

[JB300]

My sister who is in the public sector and quite high up will in 2 years when she retires at 58 will get a pension of over 80k a year, she will when at retirement age get her old age pension , also she will get yearly rises , so some have it better than others

Wow!!! So assuming your sister has done her full compliment of years to get the maximum 2/3rds of her Salary when she retires, she be on £120,000 a year! It's no wonder the government can't afford pension increases when it's paying its civil servants so much!

But good luck to her if she's managed to work there that long, I lasted exactly 5 weeks working (as a consultant) at DWP & had to get out because the bureaucracy/pettiness is stifling.

Edited November 19, 2015 by JB300

[Jip99]

My letter, as an example, attached.

Confirms £151.25 pw start point less the contracted out deduction of £65.79 = £85.46 enhanced by £34.41 to make a total of £119.87per week.

[JB300]

My letter, as an example, attached.

Confirms £151.25 pw start point less the contracted out deduction of £65.79 = £85.46 enhanced by £34.41 to make a total of £119.87per week.

OAP1.jpg

OAP2.jpg

So only approx £280 per week shy of the "Average" £21,000 then!

[theoldgit]

My sister who is in the public sector and quite high up will in 2 years when she retires at 58 will get a pension of over 80k a year, she will when at retirement age get her old age pension , also she will get yearly rises , so some have it better than others

That is a good pension, she must have been well up the food chain. My manager was a Grade 5, and when he visited us here a couple of years ag he was concerned that my pension was bigger than his because I'd worked longer, for reasons better known to him he was relieved to discover his pension was bigger.

His wife was also a Grade 5, they always stock up in Poundland when they visit the UK.

[Jip99]

My letter, as an example, attached.

Confirms £151.25 pw start point less the contracted out deduction of £65.79 = £85.46 enhanced by £34.41 to make a total of £119.87per week.

OAP1.jpg

OAP2.jpg

So only approx £280 per week shy of the "Average" £21,000 then!

LOL ........ fortunately the occupational pension takes it over that

[i claudius]

My sister who is in the public sector and quite high up will in 2 years when she retires at 58 will get a pension of over 80k a year, she will when at retirement age get her old age pension , also she will get yearly rises , so some have it better than others

Wow!!! So assuming your sister has done her full compliment of years to get the maximum 2/3rds of her Salary when she retires, she be on £120,000 a year! It's no wonder the government can't afford pension increases when it's paying its civil servants so much!

But good luck to her if she's managed to work there that long, I lasted exactly 5 weeks working (as a consultant) at DWP & had to get out because the bureaucracy/pettiness is stifling.

Please don't ask me what my brother in law gets as well ,or I start crying lol

[jacky54]

Jipp99 how long were you contracted out for? my forecast is a couple of quid more but over 35 years of contributions I think i was only out for about 10 years.

[denby45]

My letter, as an example, attached.

Confirms £151.25 pw start point less the contracted out deduction of £65.79 = £85.46 enhanced by £34.41 to make a total of £119.87per week.

OAP1.jpg

OAP2.jpg

You might want to listen to the below link where around 20 mins. The Baroness Altmann CBE PhD Minister of State for Pensions makes a statement regarding the Maximum deduction due to contracted out years. It does not tally with your pension forecast statement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06mczxq

Hope this helps

Den

[theoldgit]

So assuming your sister has done her full compliment of years to get the maximum 2/3rds of her Salary when she retires, she be on £120,000 a year! It's no wonder the government can't afford pension increases when it's paying its civil servants so much!

The 2/3 of the final salary is quite new, the max I could get was 50% of my final salary, though that has now changed to an average based on your earnings throughout your career, this would have effected the likes of me who achieved meaningful promotions later in my service.

I do accept that Civil Service pensions are pretty good, throughout my career I saw colleagues joining the private sector on higher salaries. We were advised that our salaries were lower as part of nett salary was abated to fund the Civil Service Pension scheme. The fact that the "payments" didn't go into the pot but were used to pay current pensioners and that my pension is being funded by those still in harness, many of whom haven't had a salary increase for six years whilst paying increased contributions to their pension, is very much part of the problem.

[sumrit]

Jipp99 how long were you contracted out for? my forecast is a couple of quid more but over 35 years of contributions I think i was only out for about 10 years.

I'm due to start receiving my state pension next month so will still be under the old rules. I was contracted out for around 24 years during my working life and paid into the Government's various systems for the remaining years.

My state pension will be just under £140 pw, although when I asked for a forecast some four years ago I was quoted around £150. When I queried the lower amount I was told 'in preparation for the new system being introduced in April 2016 current pensions were now being calculated in a different way and that accounts for the difference'.

As I understand it, for those reaching retirement age after the 6th April 2016, who have also contracted out for part of their working life, the DWP will make two calculations. The first will be under the new system and the second will be under the old system. You will then receive the higher figure of the two as your pension. From the various calculations I've seen, somebody who has some contracted out years will always be better off with the old system's calculation, and will receive that.

However, when you ask the DWP for a forecast, based on you reaching retirement age after the 6th April 2016, you will only get a calculation based on the new system.

Edited November 20, 2015 by sumrit

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Jipp99 how long were you contracted out for? my forecast is a couple of quid more but over 35 years of contributions I think i was only out for about 10 years.

I'm due to start receiving my state pension next month so will still be under the old rules. I was contracted out for around 24 years during my working life and paid into the Government's various systems for the remaining years.

My state pension will be just under £140 pw, although when I asked for a forecast some four years ago I was quoted around £150. When I queried the lower amount I was told 'in preparation for the new system being introduced in April 2016 current pensions were now being calculated in a different way and that accounts for the difference'.

As I understand it, for those reaching retirement age after the 6th April 2016, who have also contracted out for part of their working life, the DWP will make two calculations. The first will be under the new system and the second will be under the old system. You will then receive the higher figure of the two as your pension. From the various calculations I've seen, somebody who has some contracted out years will always be better off with the old system's calculation, and will receive that.

However, when you ask the DWP for a forecast, based on you reaching retirement age after the 6th April 2016, you will only get a calculation based on the new system.

Well there's one thing for sure and that is, that you will never know if it was calculated correctly because the system is no longer understood even by the people who administer it. It intrigues me to think how future case law will develop when judges are likely to be equally perplexed with rules that neither they nor the presenting advocates understand.

[nong38]

For anyone that might have missed the State Pension will rise by 2.9% in April 2016 to £119.30, announced yesterday and upcoming next week, 25th Governments Autumn Statement, will be live on the BBC website probably from around 1130/1200 GMT.

[uptheos]

For anyone that might have missed the State Pension will rise by 2.9% in April 2016 to £119.30, announced yesterday and upcoming next week, 25th Governments Autumn Statement, will be live on the BBC website probably from around 1130/1200 GMT.

Millions of pensioners will see their spending power boosted to its highest level for a quarter of a century

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3328009/State-pension-set-rise-3-35-week-115-95-benefit-13-million-pensioners.html#ixzz3s87fZkwj

Hopefully they won't spend it all at once

[i claudius]

Gosh i think we will have to return to the UK now 119.30 pounds a week , thats 6203.36 a year , i dont know what we could do with all that money . pay the electric bill and councill tax i bet .

[jacky54]

water bills are 1000+ a year in the south west, never believed it until two showed me their bills in Devon, bugger that.

[transam]

water bills are 1000+ a year in the south west, never believed it until two showed me their bills in Devon, bugger that.

!0 years back my London house water bill was around 50 quid a month...