All this going on about Mormons says more about you then them.

I haven't contributed massive amounts of money to deny Mormons basic civil rights. Actually not one penny because I wouldn't support that. On the other hand, the Mormon Church, the same one that Romney was a major leader of (not just born into it and followed, he was a LEADER) has spent massive amounts of money to deny basic civil rights to gay American citizens. So what does that say?

Jingthing came down to it in his latest posts - they're anti-poofter.

Never mind economics, threats from Islam, racial relations or whatever. Romney is likely to be against same-sex marriage and therefore must be opposed.

As a committed Christian I must say that I too oppose the corruption of Holy Writ.

Jingthing came down to it in his latest posts - they're anti-poofter.

Never mind economics, threats from Islam, racial relations or whatever. Romney is likely to be against same-sex marriage and therefore must be opposed.

As a committed Christian I must say that I too oppose the corruption of Holy Writ.

As a matter of fact, I'm opposed to Romney on most every issue. He is now positioned as far right, and while he might want to make moderates think he isn't that way for political purposes, if elected he will be the right wing's b-word. If you want to think it's only because he's anti-gay, so be it. But that's not the case at all.

(BTW, not cool to use slurs as you did.)

As far as the pro-Obama PAC idea of doing just the facts ads about Mormonism and Romney's role as a Mormon LEADER, I acknowledge there would be blowback against that but it would also inform a lot of people about the facts of Mormonism that didn't know them before. I think overall the facts about Mormonism are really not flattering. For example their disgusting actions in regard to holocaust victims. So if a PAC was considering such a tactic, and yes I know, it's unlikely they will, they would have to weight the blowback vs. the potential benefit. Personally I think if handled well and strictly facts (remember it would be separate from the Obama campaign as a PAC action) it could be an overall benefit.

No, I don't think Obama is the best of all possible presidents. I just think he is much better than Romney. I would have preferred this to be the reelection year for Hillary Clinton.

As a matter of fact, I'm opposed to Romney on most every issue. He is now positioned as far right, and while he might want to make moderates think he isn't that way for political purposes, if elected he will be the right wing's b-word. If you want to think it's only because he's anti-gay, so be it. But that's not the case at all.

Of course Romney is positioning himself on right. Don't act like this is your first Presidential election. That's how you get votes in the primaries - go after the base. In the general election, move toward the center to attract Independents. You talk about Romney's history, well, if you know anything about him you know the conservative right hasn't liked him because he has always been too far left. This recent re-positioning the past 6-9 months is to make the conservative voters believe that he really is a conservative and not a centrist at best, or closet liberal at worst. That is the plan to win the nomination. You criticizing Romney now for being far right is off target. Romney should be a Democrat's dream candidate for the Republicans. NOT because of his chances to win, but because he is most like them.

As far as the pro-Obama PAC idea of doing just the facts ads about Mormonism and Romney's role as a Mormon LEADER, I acknowledge there would be blowback against that but it would also inform a lot of people about the facts of Mormonism that didn't know them before. I think overall the facts about Mormonism are really not flattering.

If a pro-Obama PAC tries make Romney look bad by making Mormonism look crazy, do you think that wouldn't invite some creative ads from the other side? Romney was a leader of some kind in his church, and Obama has been declared by the media as the first gay president. Obama wants to back gay marriage? What if an anti-Obama super PAC decides to start running ads informing a lot of people about the facts of gays that they didn't know before? You can easily find some facts there that some might not find very flattering. The pro-Obama PAC can have an ad showing Romney wearing funny underwear, the anti-Obama PAC can run an ad of their own. I can see it now, in one visual you see Romney with a happily married traditional couple and their child, then the next visual is of Obama with two men in their parade best holding a shaved gerbil by a string tied to his tail. Compelling.

Normally I would never post anything like that here but I figure it's OK since you have been given the green light to go after Mormonism in several posts, and after being told how offensive it is you just keep coming so it must all be ok.

As far as the pro-Obama PAC idea of doing just the facts ads about Mormonism and Romney's role as a Mormon LEADER, I acknowledge there would be blowback against that but it would also inform a lot of people about the facts of Mormonism that didn't know them before. I think overall the facts about Mormonism are really not flattering.

If a pro-Obama PAC tries make Romney look bad by making Mormonism look crazy, do you think that wouldn't invite some creative ads from the other side? Romney was a leader of some kind in his church, and Obama has been declared by the media as the first gay president. Obama wants to back gay marriage? What if an anti-Obama super PAC decides to start running ads informing a lot of people about the facts of gays that they didn't know before? You can easily find some facts there that some might not find very flattering. The pro-Obama PAC can have an ad showing Romney wearing funny underwear, the anti-Obama PAC can run an ad of their own. I can see it now, in one visual you see Romney with a happily married traditional couple and their child, then the next visual is of Obama with two men in their parade best holding a shaved gerbil by a string tied to his tail. Compelling.

Normally I would never post anything like that here but I figure it's OK since you have been given the green light to go after Mormonism in several posts, and after being told how offensive it is you just keep coming so it must all be ok.

This is mild, but it's a start.

Obama isn't gay.

Obama isn't a gay leader.

Gay people don't put gerbils up their <deleted>. That is a false urban myth. I'm not saying it hasn't ever happened, but it would be extremely rare. Not something I've ever encountered and I've known some very edgy gay people, believe me.

I was talking about FACTS about Mormonism and FACTS about Romney's major leadership involvement in Mormonism.

I don't see how broadcasting FACTS about gay people would hurt Obama, but by all means, go for it.

If what you mean is to broadcast facts about the sluttiness of many gay people, well that probably wouldn't be earth shattering news, and Obama is supporting gay people having the chance to marry, and hopefully be LESS slutty, so not sure how that would been seen as a bad thing.

If y'all see this as your chance to post slurs against against gay people, have it at. As you say, it says more about you than Obama for sure.

I'm not saying there aren't some parallels between Mormons and gays. Would most Americans accept an actual gay president at this time? Absolutely not. We know for a fact the majority of Americans do accept the idea of a Mormon president. That's fine but I still think Romney's major leadership role in the Mormon church is a totally legitimate political issue. Part of the vetting process. Why is he hiding from it?

As a matter of fact, I'm opposed to Romney on most every issue. He is now positioned as far right, and while he might want to make moderates think he isn't that way for political purposes, if elected he will be the right wing's b-word. If you want to think it's only because he's anti-gay, so be it. But that's not the case at all.

Of course Romney is positioning himself on right. Don't act like this is your first Presidential election. That's how you get votes in the primaries - go after the base. In the general election, move toward the center to attract Independents. You talk about Romney's history, well, if you know anything about him you know the conservative right hasn't liked him because he has always been too far left. This recent re-positioning the past 6-9 months is to make the conservative voters believe that he really is a conservative and not a centrist at best, or closet liberal at worst. That is the plan to win the nomination. You criticizing Romney now for being far right is off target. Romney should be a Democrat's dream candidate for the Republicans. NOT because of his chances to win, but because he is most like them.

You're totally wrong. But of course Romney's people would want moderates and liberals to think he isn't the "severe conservative" he has become. You may believe what you said, but I don't, and American progressives don't either! We are very afraid of a President Romney for good reason.

http://prospect.org/comment/13851

Romney’s appeal is that he can win a general election. The right has controlled the Republican Party for years, and all it needs is a titular leader to implement its policies. If conservatives could elect a corpse, they would, but because the Constitution requires a warm body, they’ll make do with Romney. What they want is a front man for their ideas, and throughout his campaign, Romney has been happy to oblige. His domestic-policy proposals are perfectly attuned to right-wing orthodoxy: “Repeal Obama-care.” “Repeal Dodd-Frank.” “Eliminate Title X family--planning programs benefiting groups like Planned Parenthood.” “Return federal programs to the states.”

As a matter of fact, I'm opposed to Romney on most every issue. He is now positioned as far right, and while he might want to make moderates think he isn't that way for political purposes, if elected he will be the right wing's b-word. If you want to think it's only because he's anti-gay, so be it. But that's not the case at all.

Of course Romney is positioning himself on right. Don't act like this is your first Presidential election. That's how you get votes in the primaries - go after the base. In the general election, move toward the center to attract Independents. You talk about Romney's history, well, if you know anything about him you know the conservative right hasn't liked him because he has always been too far left. This recent re-positioning the past 6-9 months is to make the conservative voters believe that he really is a conservative and not a centrist at best, or closet liberal at worst. That is the plan to win the nomination. You criticizing Romney now for being far right is off target. Romney should be a Democrat's dream candidate for the Republicans. NOT because of his chances to win, but because he is most like them.

You're totally wrong. But of course Romney's people would want moderates and liberals to think he isn't the "severe conservative" he has become. You may believe what you said, but I don't, and American progressives don't either! We are very afraid of a President Romney for good reason.

http://prospect.org/comment/13851

Romney’s appeal is that he can win a general election. The right has controlled the Republican Party for years, and all it needs is a titular leader to implement its policies. If conservatives could elect a corpse, they would, but because the Constitution requires a warm body, they’ll make do with Romney. What they want is a front man for their ideas, and throughout his campaign, Romney has been happy to oblige. His domestic-policy proposals are perfectly attuned to right-wing orthodoxy: “Repeal Obama-care.” “Repeal Dodd-Frank.” “Eliminate Title X family--planning programs benefiting groups like Planned Parenthood.” “Return federal programs to the states.”

1) I am right, Romney is no true conservative let alone "far right". Anyone who thinks otherwise must be new to American politics - to put it politely.

2) Your link has some Earth-shattering news there - "The right has controlled the Republican Party for years, ". Duh, ya think? Next thing you know they'll tell us the left has controlled the Democrat Party for years.

As for Mormonism - if you call yourself Christian and you aren't Catholic, then you ARE part of a cult. Yes, Protestants, I'm talking to you too.

I know more believe Romney is a hardcore Mormon anymore than I believe Obama is a hardcore whatever-screwed-up-Church-Rev-Wright-calls-it. Both men have participated in their respective church for political reasons. I seriously doubt either were involved with their church for spiritual reasons. You can say the difference is that Romney was a leader and I will agree with you 100% - Romney is a leader and Obama is not a leader. THAT is the true difference - and choice - we face this November.

As for Mormonism - if you call yourself Christian and you aren't Catholic, then you ARE part of a cult. Yes, Protestants, I'm talking to you too.

I know more believe Romney is a hardcore Mormon anymore than I believe Obama is a hardcore whatever-screwed-up-Church-Rev-Wright-calls-it. Both men have participated in their respective church for political reasons. I seriously doubt either were involved with their church for spiritual reasons. You can say the difference is that Romney was a leader and I will agree with you 100% - Romney is a leader and Obama is not a leader. THAT is the true difference - and choice - we face this November.

I do think Romney IS a hard core Mormon. I happen to know something about Mormonism. I was one of the few non-Mormons in history to have the chance to enter one of their great temples (they had a pre-opening amnesty time). To be a leader of Mormonism at Romney's level you MUST be a VERY COMMITTED Mormon! That is a fact. Anyone with a basic understanding of Mormonism knows that. He knows that. He is hiding from it clearly. BTW, MOST actual Mormons are not even allowed to enter the temple that I had the chance to tour. Only special ones. Romney is a the cream of the specials for the Mormons. Not surprising really, as the son of a Governer. But facts are facts.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I firmly believe that Romney will show no moderation if elected as president. And that is very dangerous!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/07/mitt-romney-would-have-to-be-conservative-president-if-elected.html

Romney's Your Man, Conservatives!

If there’s one thing you know about Romney, it’s that he’s neither very principled nor very courageous. So you have nothing to worry about.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I firmly believe that Romney will show no moderation if elected as president. And that is very dangerous!

Question, did you know who Romney was 12 months ago? I ask because based on your statement above I am led to believe that all you know about him is what he has said or done during the primary season.

Romney was a successful governor of Massachusetts, a very liberal state with an overwhelmingly Democrat legislature. Say what you want about Romney Care, good or bad, but one thing is proves beyond a doubt is Romney's ability to work across the aisle with the opposition party. The ever-arrogant Obama has been an utter failure on that from Day One.

Romney's ability to govern moderately, is what has always worried the far right and what should make the left happy. For liberals, this election is close to a win-win (let's say win-tie) while for conservatives it is closer to a lose-lose (lose-tie).

Oh please. Romney is on clear record that he plans to kill Obamacare (if the supreme court doesn't kill it). Romney doesn't have any core principles except his Mormonism. That's the point. He will be the right wing b-word because that's what will get him in office, if he gets in office.

BTW, if you think progressives are fooled that a Romney win is good news, well, we're not that stupid, sorry. Can y'all sell that crapola to swing voter moderates, that is the question.

One curious factoid. Romney left his governorship with a VERY LOW approval rating of 39 percent. MUCH LOWER than Obama's current approval rating which is really saying something in an environment of a very difficult economic situation.

Oh please. Romney is on clear record that he plans to kill Obamacare (if the supreme court doesn't kill it). Romney doesn't have any core principles except his Mormonism. That's the point. He will be the right wing b-word because that's what will get him in office, if he gets in office.

BTW, if you think progressives are fooled that a Romney win is good news, well, we're not that stupid, sorry. Can y'all sell that crapola to swing voter moderates, that is the question.

One curious factoid. Romney left his governorship with a VERY LOW approval rating of 39 percent. MUCH LOWER than Obama's current approval rating which is really saying something in an environment of a very difficult economic situation.

IMO all the focus on Romney religious beliefs is as silly as when they said the Pope would run the USA if JFK was elected; granted the Pope may have done a better job but it never happened.

Actually there is very little focus on Romney's religion. I'm talking about that here because I think there should be a full vetting of the MAJOR LEADERSHIP role of Romney in his religion. He isn't just another believer, he was a major leader. I think that is 100 percent legitimate to explore in the vetting of a potential president. He is hiding from the facts, what is he hiding?

Hilariously, some of this is coming from comedians. Bill Maher just did a skit about the Mormom WIFER movement, in the same vein as the Obama BIRTHER movement. You have to see it for yourself!

Also you can't seriously assert that religion is divorced from politics in the USA. Obama's mere MEMBERSHIP in a leftist church was explored as nauseum during his first election. Romney's LEADERSHIP in the Mormon church is not being mentioned. Romney doesn't want to talk about. Why doesn't the press ASK him about it? The Mormon church which requires all its members to pay in 10 percent of their incomes spends MASSIVE amounts of money fighting for very RIGHT WING political causes in the USA. I'm telling you, this should be totally on limits, not off limits. It's beyond faith, its fair game for POLITICS.

OK, here is some real red meat for the BISHOP Romney Mormon angle. Yes, he was a BISHOP. Tweet that. Romney has said questions about his Mormon activities are off limits? WHY? What is he hiding?

http://www.nytimes.c...&pagewanted=all

But being a Latter-day Saint is “at the center of who he really is, if you scrape everything else off,” said Randy Sorensen, who worshiped with Mr. Romney in church.

...

Mr. Romney also prays before taking action on decisions he has already made, asking for divine reassurance, a feeling that he is “united with the powers above,” Dr. Hassell said. Sometimes Mr. Romney would report that even though he had made a decision on the merits, prayer had changed his mind. “Even though rationally this looks like the thing to do, I just have a feeling we shouldn’t do it,” he would say, according to Grant Bennett, another friend and church leader.

...

Mr. Romney was still a bit reluctant to re-enter the fray, according to Ms. White-Hammond. But she recalled the soon-to-be candidate’s wife saying that the Romneys both “felt it was what God wanted them to do.”

This God that this potential U.S. president listens to for his decisions, according to Mormoms, lives on the PLANET KOLOB. What percentage of Americans do you reckon know that Mormons believe God lives on near the Planet Kolob? I think under 10 percent. Why shouldn't ALL of them know ... just the FACTS?

[media=]

[/media]

The voters aren't going to believe this nonsense. They will recognize it for what it is...a diversion from the real problems facing this administration.

As that noted Clintonite James Carville once said..."It's the economy, stupid".

If you really think that those 85 million people that are underemployed or unemployed are going to be worried about what kind of underwear Romney might be wearing or what his church leanings are, then I have some beach front property in Isaan for sale.

Obama is in trouble. His policies have failed on all fronts and the voters know it. They feel it every time they buy a tank of gas or go to the grocery store and, IMHO, they are going to feel it in the voting booths in November.

The economy is important. But the character of the man is important as well. I prefer the pothead!

The economy is important. But the character of the man is important as well. I prefer the pothead!

Character is important yet you support Obama? That doesn't make any sense.

Actually there is very little focus on Romney's religion. I'm talking about that here because I think there should be a full vetting of the MAJOR LEADERSHIP role of Romney in his religion. He isn't just another believer, he was a major leader. I think that is 100 percent legitimate to explore in the vetting of a potential president. He is hiding from the facts, what is he hiding?

Bringing attention to any LEADERSHIP by Romney just reminds people that it is a quality Obama totally lacks.

Actually there is very little focus on Romney's religion. I'm talking about that here because I think there should be a full vetting of the MAJOR LEADERSHIP role of Romney in his religion. He isn't just another believer, he was a major leader. I think that is 100 percent legitimate to explore in the vetting of a potential president. He is hiding from the facts, what is he hiding?

Bringing attention to any LEADERSHIP by Romney just reminds people that it is a quality Obama totally lacks.

You are so wrong. If Romney thought his history being a BISHOP of the MORMON church (which yes a large percentage of Americans DO think is a CULT) would help him politically, he would be making ads about, talking about it. He says not a word about it! He's made it clear the subject is off limits. I say foul. Nothing about him should be off limits. Who does he think he is?

The economy is important. But the character of the man is important as well. I prefer the pothead!

Character is important yet you support Obama? That doesn't make any sense.

Neither is perfect. Romney is much worse.

Actually there is very little focus on Romney's religion. I'm talking about that here because I think there should be a full vetting of the MAJOR LEADERSHIP role of Romney in his religion. He isn't just another believer, he was a major leader. I think that is 100 percent legitimate to explore in the vetting of a potential president. He is hiding from the facts, what is he hiding?

Bringing attention to any LEADERSHIP by Romney just reminds people that it is a quality Obama totally lacks.

You are so wrong. If Romney thought his history being a BISHOP of the MORMON church (which yes a large percentage of Americans DO think is a CULT) would help him politically, he would be making ads about, talking about it. He says not a word about it! He's made it clear the subject is off limits. I say foul. Nothing about him should be off limits. Who does he think he is?

I wish I knew why I feel the need to explain basic things to you. Romney and Obama were active in their churches because it helped them early in their political careers. They don't need them now at the national level. Obama sure doesn't need those poor people in his Chicago neighborhood to vote for him anymore. Nor does Romney need the people in his old local church. It isn't uncommon in politics or life in general that the people you needed to succeed early on, are not needed the further along one gets and can sometimes be a negative. For example, Obama relied on Bill Ayers and Tony Rezko early on but won't touch either of them with a ten foot pole today. That's just the way it works. Hanging with those two does however reveal a lot about Obama's lack of character which is why I'm surprised you support him if you think character is important.

Oh, please. Romney's super Mormon granddaddy had multiple wives and fled to Mexico to flee arrest. Romney grew up in a prominent Mormon family. His favor was the most famous Mormon of his day. Now Romney is even a more famous Mormon. Of course he was going to be a Mormon from that family. Expected. But nobody made him be a Mormon BISHOP. That shows he was (and is) really into it. Refer to the article. You don't serve as a BISHOP in any church without being really into it. Who are you kidding denying that? Romney is a hard core Mormon. There is no comparison at all to Obama. You're just trying to divert the issue now.

BTW, I just read on Salon that 1 in 5 republicans are less likely to support Romney because of his Mormonism. Now these folks won't vote for Obama, but some of them may stay home. In a close election, that could easily make the difference. Is this an appealing way to win an election? No. But it's part of politics. People reject candidates for all kinds of reasons, and they aren't always the most lofty of reasons. Personally, I don't like any candidate who says he makes decisions based on voices from ANY God rather than reason. Bush was like that too. Horrible!

The details of Obama's pot smoking teenage days will be all over the press now. That's fair. It's also fair to know all about Romney's days as a full adult as a Mormon BISHOP. A little googling and you'll find quite a bit of dirt about that period of his life; particularly the way he treated ... WOMEN.

Oh, please. Romney's super Mormon granddaddy had multiple wives and fled to Mexico to flee arrest. Romney grew up in a prominent Mormon family. His favor was the most famous Mormon of his day. Now Romney is even a more famous Mormon. Of course he was going to be a Mormon from that family. Expected. But nobody made him be a Mormon BISHOP. That shows he was (and is) really into it. Refer to the article. You don't serve as a BISHOP in any church without being really into it. Who are you kidding denying that? Romney is a hard core Mormon. There is no comparison at all to Obama. You're just trying to divert the issue now.

BTW, I just read on Salon that 1 in 5 republicans are less likely to support Romney because of his Mormonism. Now these folks won't vote for Obama, but some of them may stay home. In a close election, that could easily make the difference. Is this an appealing way to win an election? No. But it's part of politics. People reject candidates for all kinds of reasons, and they aren't always the most lofty of reasons. Personally, I don't like any candidate who says he makes decisions based on voices from ANY God rather than reason. Bush was like that too. Horrible!

The details of Obama's pot smoking teenage days will be all over the press now. That's fair. It's also fair to know all about Romney's days as a full adult as a Mormon BISHOP. A little googling and you'll find quite a bit of dirt about that period of his life; particularly the way he treated ... WOMEN.

Do you by any chance believe Mormons have horns?

BTW, I just read on Salon that 1 in 5 republicans are less likely to support Romney because of his Mormonism. Now these folks won't vote for Obama, but some of them may stay home. In a close election, that could easily make the difference. Is this an appealing way to win an election? No. But it's part of politics.

1 in 5 is still a much smaller loss than Obama will suffer after becoming the "first gay president" as all the polls have shown. In 2004 the gay marriage issue gift wrapped the election for George Bush, in 2008 it was defeated in California because Obama brought our more black and hispanic voters who aren't crazy about the idea and in 2012 it will put a nice bow on the election for Romney. Some activists never learn how politics works and just keep suffering set backs.

BTW, I just read on Salon that 1 in 5 republicans are less likely to support Romney because of his Mormonism. Now these folks won't vote for Obama, but some of them may stay home. In a close election, that could easily make the difference. Is this an appealing way to win an election? No. But it's part of politics.

1 in 5 is still a much smaller loss than Obama will suffer after becoming the "first gay president" as all the polls have shown. In 2004 the gay marriage issue gift wrapped the election for George Bush, in 2008 it was defeated in California because Obama brought our more black and hispanic voters who aren't crazy about the idea and in 2012 it will put a nice bow on the election for Romney. Some activists never learn how politics works and just keep suffering set backs.

You're so funny. You haven't kept up, have you? Demonizing gays isn't going to work anymore. The tide has turned. That's why Romney has tread very softly on the Obama gay marriage statement.

Oh, please. Romney's super Mormon granddaddy had multiple wives and fled to Mexico to flee arrest. Romney grew up in a prominent Mormon family. His favor was the most famous Mormon of his day. Now Romney is even a more famous Mormon. Of course he was going to be a Mormon from that family. Expected. But nobody made him be a Mormon BISHOP. That shows he was (and is) really into it. Refer to the article. You don't serve as a BISHOP in any church without being really into it. Who are you kidding denying that? Romney is a hard core Mormon. There is no comparison at all to Obama. You're just trying to divert the issue now.

BTW, I just read on Salon that 1 in 5 republicans are less likely to support Romney because of his Mormonism. Now these folks won't vote for Obama, but some of them may stay home. In a close election, that could easily make the difference. Is this an appealing way to win an election? No. But it's part of politics. People reject candidates for all kinds of reasons, and they aren't always the most lofty of reasons. Personally, I don't like any candidate who says he makes decisions based on voices from ANY God rather than reason. Bush was like that too. Horrible!

The details of Obama's pot smoking teenage days will be all over the press now. That's fair. It's also fair to know all about Romney's days as a full adult as a Mormon BISHOP. A little googling and you'll find quite a bit of dirt about that period of his life; particularly the way he treated ... WOMEN.

Do you by any chance believe Mormons have horns?

No, but I'm buying the smelly underwear story, hook, horn, and sinker ...