Tomboy Gik

[kerryk]

You have to realize most of the posters on Thai Visa don't live in Thailand and those who do are blind. That they type so well always amazes me.

Indeed so. Actually I can guarantee that any social get together amongst Thais gets increasingly sexual both in tone and behaviour as the evening wears on. I am not a prude by any means but I find this constant sexualisation as an invariable adjunct to socialising irritating.

I agree with you except I enjoy it. I gave up jealously after my third divorce. Not worth the time and money and emotional hassle. I have only dated a couple of Tom's. They both liked to dance.

Actually fun ladies if approached right. They are right up there patting the girls on the bottom and watching football, getting drunk and acting like an Aussie.

Educate me, what is acting like an Aussie?

Put some shrimp on the barbie and open me another beer. Aussies are a lot of fun. Not very PC. Except for the posters on TV of course. They are not real Aussies in my experience.

[FOODLOVER]

"Educate me, what is acting like an Aussie? "

You have to look closely but there are times that they may start hopping, if just for a moment but it happens.

[kerryk]

Tom, Dee or however some describe them, they are lesbians. All too weird for me.

I guess that if both these women are middle aged and one is extremely butch, than seeing them together can’t be a pleasant sight.

What is so weird about lesbians? And why should it be a pleasant sight for you (or guys in general)? Is it because men have this fantasy of being irreplaceable?

Did the artificial sperm get invented while I was out having coffee today?

[pxlgirl]

Not that exclusive, replace the shrimps with some chips and you have the average European/US couch potato.

[edwinclapham]

And look where being Pc has got us in the world eh? I dont know what constitutes a "real aussie" if they are born and bred in this vast red land but I bow of course to your superior knowledge

[BigJohnnyBKK]

These tomboys are the only Thai that I hate and I really feel like to slap them when they look at me agressively knowing that I could steal and give fun to their cute girlfriend who would definitively forget them...

Wow what fantastic dreams you have. When it's more likely that they send their cute girlfriend over to suck all the money out of you, turns most of it over to the tom and still keeps both of you happy, til the money's gone and she spits you out and move on to the next hetero sucker, while tom and dee live happily forever after.

I sometimes wonder if I live in a different Thailand to others, I am frequently "flirted" with by the wives of Thai friends and in front of their husbands, not only that but the husbands and my partner encourage and enjoy this. Sexual pleasures and problems are openly publicly discussed and everyone wants to know how the farang shapes up in bed. All these taboos about touching that guide books talk about don't seem to exist, if I was to judge by what I see, most Thais in my village, male and female, are gay.

Most is a stretch. We're just taught that same-sex affection shouldn't be expressed physically, especially for hetero men. I do think it's possible that true rates of homosexuality are higher here than back home, but more likely they're just allowed to come out more due to the greater cultural acceptance of such variety.

But not most. And certainly not gay in the sense of exclusively homosexual. If say 40% of Thais at some point had same-sex experience, I'd still reckon that was a bit high, of course not counting the normal childhood fooling around. But of course there will be some variety between different ethnic/cultural populations, and even from one village to the next, maybe you just live in a very gay place, luck you! 8-)

Indeed so. Actually I can guarantee that any social get together amongst Thais gets increasingly sexual both in tone and behaviour as the evening wears on. I am not a prude by any means but I find this constant sexualisation as an invariable adjunct to socialising irritating.

Well you're just a repressed old prude then aren't you. I think it's wonderful how the Thais are open and honest about the sexuality, both giving it the importance it deserves and not taking it too seriously, realizing that love and sex may be nice experienced together but are fundamentally different aspects of our humanity and often best indulged in separately.

Edited May 4, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[BigJohnnyBKK]

When my father was a young man the majority of Thais were still serfs and slavery was still legal in Thailand with one third of the population slaves in some areas. Serfs and slaves are seldom known to be very proud. Maybe you should go back and gleaning.

Oh and I was here 40 years ago. Thailand also had a large and well established brothel trade when the Portuguese first arrived in sailing ships. Way back when it was sleazy old Portuguese.

I disagree completely with your last point, but i am not interested in arguing with you, you seem to be the type of person that goes from thread to thread and making smart comments to perhaps make yourself feel smarter than you really are.

You seem to have an answer for everyone Kerryk, and most ignore your comments. You even try to erode any good memory or pride for the Thai people with your acid remarks, just for your own amusement, or maybe to show off. I like the others will ignore your comments from now on.

Actually although I rarely agree with Kerry's comments, in this case I think he's spot on and you're the wacko outlier here, I doubt if many here think your view is accurate.

Thailand has always been unique in the GFE and that started hundreds of years ago there are even laws for the relationships between the GF and the client in olden times.

Not exactly unique in that regard historically, but nearly so in making it a major globally-publicized industry, along with the Philippines.

It's our Judeo-Christian cultural programming that makes this seem unusual, most cultures outside the JC sphere of influence have such traditions, and even many of latter did before the church's teachings came to dominate our mores.

Edited May 4, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[edwinclapham]

Tom, Dee or however some describe them, they are lesbians. All too weird for me.

I guess that if both these women are middle aged and one is extremely butch, than seeing them together can’t be a pleasant sight.

What is so weird about lesbians? And why should it be a pleasant sight for you (or guys in general)? Is it because men have this fantasy of being irreplaceable?

Homophobia knows no bounds!

In 2012 its quite sad to see actually!

[HowardH]

i find it amusing that you feel you have your finger on the pulse of the forum, and have appointed yourself spokesman for the board.

I would like to point out also, that it was you who made a butchery of the word "honerable" whilst claiming that Thais had lost theirs.

You even manage to get a dig in at the americans.

The fact remains it is you who has proven unable to find a mate, and denigrated an entire culture as a result of that failure.

KerryK is at least amusing. you, well, you are just miserable.

So you pick my spelling as an important issue, and throw in the judgement of me being miserable because i defend the Thai from mindless know-it-alls like you?

Regarding the finger on the pulse of the forum comment, i see you come from a long line of intellects, lol

Whatever dude

Go and have another drink on me

[BWPattaya]

OP. Do nothing at all. It isn't your business and anything that you say or do will be held against you later. You will be blamed if your friend loses his wife, or if she loses her tom friend. You will be the easy scapegoat to blame.

[Beetlejuice]

Tom, Dee or however some describe them, they are lesbians. All too weird for me.

I guess that if both these women are middle aged and one is extremely butch, than seeing them together can’t be a pleasant sight.

What is so weird about lesbians? And why should it be a pleasant sight for you (or guys in general)? Is it because men have this fantasy of being irreplaceable?

Because the terms Tom and Dee makes them sound like some type of species of animal, that’s what’s weird. WTH is a Dee? Please don’t answer that, I’m not really interested or care.

Back in my day and that was not in the far distant past, being gay or a tomboy was not homosexual.

Why not just describe them as lesbians so that we all may understand, unless these people are ashamed to have them described for what they actually are?

And to be honest the thought of two people whatever they`re ages or sex touching each other up in public is embarrassing and repulses me. Never a pretty sight. Does this answer your questions?

Edited May 4, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[kerryk]

Tom, Dee or however some describe them, they are lesbians. All too weird for me.

I guess that if both these women are middle aged and one is extremely butch, than seeing them together can’t be a pleasant sight.

What is so weird about lesbians? And why should it be a pleasant sight for you (or guys in general)? Is it because men have this fantasy of being irreplaceable?

Because the terms Tom and Dee makes them sound like some type of species of animal, that’s what’s weird. WTH is a Dee? Please don’t answer that, I’m not really interested or care.

Back in my day and that was not in the far distant past, being gay or a tomboy was not homosexual.

Why not just describe them as lesbians so that we all may understand, unless these people are ashamed to have them described for what they actually are?

And to be honest the thought of two people whatever they`re ages or sex touching each other up in public is embarrassing and repulses me. Never a pretty sight. Does this answer your questions?

Perhaps I am wrong. But I think the overwhelming majority of posters on Thai Visa would love to see two attractive people of appropriate sexual orientation touching each other in public or private given no legal or moral consequences. I think you are in the 1 out of a 100 minority. Of course I could be wrong.

[pxlgirl]

Because the terms Tom and Dee makes them sound like some type of species of animal, that’s what’s weird. WTH is a Dee? Please don’t answer that, I’m not really interested or care.

It seems to be some sort of human nature to put everything in boxes and label them, not only common in minorities. But it's up to everyone how deep they let themselves drag into this. Otherwise, live and let live.

Why not just describe them as lesbians so that we all may understand, unless these people are ashamed to have them described for what they actually are?

Fear is just one aspect. But that's a whole different topic.

And to be honest the thought of two people whatever they`re ages or sex touching each other up in public is embarrassing and repulses me. Never a pretty sight. Does this answer your questions?

Not a fan of it either... But such things do not exclusively apply to gays, so no, it doesn't answer the question.

[TommoPhysicist]

Why not just describe them as lesbians so that we all may understand, unless these people are ashamed to have them described for what they actually are?

As I explained earlier, Dee is not a lesbian, she is a heterosexual girl that is currently dating someone with the outward appearance of a man. To be a lesbian, she would need to be attracted to females who dress as girls. It is a heterosexual perversion.

Edited May 4, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[brewsterbudgen]

Why not just describe them as lesbians so that we all may understand, unless these people are ashamed to have them described for what they actually are?

As I explained earlier, Dee is not a lesbian, she is a heterosexual girl that is currently dating someone with the outward appearance of a man. To be a lesbian, she would need to be attracted to females who dress as girls. It is a heterosexual perversion.

This seems rather difficult for many here to grasp. Call a Dee a "lesbian" and she gets very upset!

[arrowsdawdle]

Thai womens interest in Farang men is purely for money and a materially better life . I believe my thai wife does actually love me .

My wife has been doing Thai lovelinks for a widowed friend ; then she thought she would try herself . She has lots of response for herself , but little for her friend .

There has been Bill clearly a wealthy man . I had to write all the E Mails , with which more and more I pinned him down to be not ready for a relationship .

Now there is a frenchman , I have had to write more E Mails . They have started to Skype , but not too much activity lately .

My wife says that if she goes off with the frenchman , I will have to marry her younger sister , who is a very butch Tom .

My wife and other Thai women are very pretty and alluring , but really all they want is money .

I find it interesting that Ladyboys very often seem to live with a girl/woman in what seems to be a male and female lesbian relationship , perhaps with some heterosex thown in .

Do you not have any self respect?

Not to mention cajones.

[kerryk]

Now I am confused. I thought a Dee was a lipstick lesbian. Why would she care if you called her a lesbian? There is also chapstick lesbian and butch lesbian and sport dyke, diesel dyke and a power dyke. And I don't think a baby dyke has anything to do with age. I do however think a lot of Thai women are “LUG's” or a “BUG”.

Me I'm a pansexual Lesbophile.

[TommoPhysicist]

Now I am confused. I thought a Dee was a lipstick lesbian. Why would she care if you called her a lesbian? There is also chapstick lesbian and butch lesbian and sport dyke, diesel dyke and a power dyke. And I don't think a baby dyke has anything to do with age. I do however think a lot of Thai women are “LUG's” or a “BUG”.

Me I'm a pansexual Lesbophile.

Dee likes real men as well, so not a lesbian.

Same as a Ladyboy and a guy that goes with a ladyboy are not gay.

[arrowsdawdle]

I sometimes wonder if I live in a different Thailand to others, I am frequently "flirted" with by the wives of Thai friends and in front of their husbands, not only that but the husbands and my partner encourage and enjoy this. Sexual pleasures and problems are openly publicly discussed and everyone wants to know how the farang shapes up in bed. All these taboos about touching that guide books talk about don't seem to exist, if I was to judge by what I see, most Thais in my village, male and female, are gay.

You have to realize most of the posters on Thai Visa don't live in Thailand and those who do are blind. That they type so well always amazes me.

Indeed so. Actually I can guarantee that any social get together amongst Thais gets increasingly sexual both in tone and behaviour as the evening wears on. I am not a prude by any means but I find this constant sexualisation as an invariable adjunct to socialising irritating.

What do you expect? Nothing interesting to say. No opinions. No sense of humor. Unable to laugh at themselves. Naive to current events. Uneducated except on the certificate purchased. Can't find Thailand or any other country on a map. No sense of history. Convinced of superiority over all other ethnicities. Ad infinitum. "Hey, you like rice. Pom rak kow. We have so much in common, let;s boink."

[Beetlejuice]

Why not just describe them as lesbians so that we all may understand, unless these people are ashamed to have them described for what they actually are?

As I explained earlier, Dee is not a lesbian, she is a heterosexual girl that is currently dating someone with the outward appearance of a man. To be a lesbian, she would need to be attracted to females who dress as girls. It is a heterosexual perversion.

To me men who prefer to have sexual relationships with other men are homosexual and women that prefer to have sexual relationships with other women are lesbians. These are terms that have been used since the Stone Age.

I don`t care how they dress or whether they’re classified as, gay, merry, butch, camp, dik, tom, dee, doe, bucks, ewe, rams or any other descriptions.

For those who are proud of their same sex preference orientation, should have no problems with being termed as being homo sexual or lesbian, rather than trying to Categorise themselves as belonging to a unique group.

It is not homophobic to view someone as a homosexual or lesbian if that’s what they are. Many Thais consider me as a farang, or should I demand that they categorise me as a, Moby, snowflake, or the proper term, a European?

It`s all a load of nonsense and as the wise man says; what you are is what you are and providing you’re proud and OK with that, than why try to change it?

Edited May 4, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[kerryk]

I sometimes wonder if I live in a different Thailand to others, I am frequently "flirted" with by the wives of Thai friends and in front of their husbands, not only that but the husbands and my partner encourage and enjoy this. Sexual pleasures and problems are openly publicly discussed and everyone wants to know how the farang shapes up in bed. All these taboos about touching that guide books talk about don't seem to exist, if I was to judge by what I see, most Thais in my village, male and female, are gay.

You have to realize most of the posters on Thai Visa don't live in Thailand and those who do are blind. That they type so well always amazes me.

Indeed so. Actually I can guarantee that any social get together amongst Thais gets increasingly sexual both in tone and behaviour as the evening wears on. I am not a prude by any means but I find this constant sexualisation as an invariable adjunct to socialising irritating.

What do you expect? Nothing interesting to say. No opinions. No sense of humor. Unable to laugh at themselves. Naive to current events. Uneducated except on the certificate purchased. Can't find Thailand or any other country on a map. No sense of history. Convinced of superiority over all other ethnicities. Ad infinitum. "Hey, you like rice. Pom rak kow. We have so much in common, let;s boink."

Boy, who do you hang out with. Last night I had the ladies rolling on the floor talking about my GF Yingluck, red knickers and the differences between Thai and Farang women.

I sure hope the ladies have some knowledge in addition to the certificates because they build oil refineries for an Italian and Korean company in addition to the ones on the Gulf coast of Thailand.

If they are dummies we are all going to go up in a big boom soon.

Since they ship to Italy and Korea on a weekly basis I imagine they can find at least Asia and Europe on a map.

We watch historical movies on TV all the time and the ladies seem pretty well grounded to me.

I'd change your crowd if I were you.

[arrowsdawdle]

Tom, Dee or however some describe them, they are lesbians. All too weird for me.

I guess that if both these women are middle aged and one is extremely butch, than seeing them together can’t be a pleasant sight.

What is so weird about lesbians? And why should it be a pleasant sight for you (or guys in general)? Is it because men have this fantasy of being irreplaceable?

You must be Thai. If not, head on over. You'll feel right at home, not wierd at all; and enjoy all you can eat hospitality. And to whom belongs the fantasy? There is no commitment anxiety with the ________ (substitute pet name for vibrator toy) and of course the batteries are replaceable.

[Trembly]

Your friend could do what a lot of reasonable Thais do when they think that there is too much to lose by divorcing or breaking up and have open / convenience marriage arrangement. This is a lot more common than it seems, particularly among the moneyed classes. You sit down, discuss the rules and then you might even go as far as vetting each others' part-time partners. A classic Asian detente.

[HowardH]

Now I am confused. I thought a Dee was a lipstick lesbian. Why would she care if you called her a lesbian? There is also chapstick lesbian and butch lesbian and sport dyke, diesel dyke and a power dyke. And I don't think a baby dyke has anything to do with age. I do however think a lot of Thai women are “LUG's” or a “BUG”.

Me I'm a pansexual Lesbophile.

[HowardH]

After reading all the comments i think that i am confused about my sexuality, am I a hetro? or someone that likes girls dressed as boy's girlfriends?

Giks, hiks, dix, dee's ladyboy's lovers, who am I? lol

[pxlgirl]

I've described the issue a few pages earlier on this thread, the whole thing about identifying as gay or whatever is coming out of fear. Gays are not really accepted, even in western countries. People found ways to deal with it, many of them are not really productive though. A guy who has a relationship with a ladyboy, would not want to be labeled as gay, or a dy would sting her heel in your balls when you dare to call her a lesbian... In a way it's a shame that certain types are being used to disguise the actual issue, as if being gay is something bad. Many people are cowards and by pretending to be sort of society conform, they choose the easy ride.

[TommoPhysicist]

I've described the issue a few pages earlier on this thread, the whole thing about identifying as gay or whatever is coming out of fear. Gays are not really accepted, even in western countries. People found ways to deal with it, many of them are not really productive though. A guy who has a relationship with a ladyboy, would not want to be labeled as gay, or a dy would sting her heel in your balls when you dare to call her a lesbian... In a way it's a shame that certain types are being used to disguise the actual issue, as if being gay is something bad. Many people are cowards and by pretending to be sort of society conform, they choose the easy ride.

Why not try that post in the gay forum and see what happens.

[kerryk]

I've described the issue a few pages earlier on this thread, the whole thing about identifying as gay or whatever is coming out of fear. Gays are not really accepted, even in western countries. People found ways to deal with it, many of them are not really productive though. A guy who has a relationship with a ladyboy, would not want to be labeled as gay, or a dy would sting her heel in your balls when you dare to call her a lesbian... In a way it's a shame that certain types are being used to disguise the actual issue, as if being gay is something bad. Many people are cowards and by pretending to be sort of society conform, they choose the easy ride.

I think I hear what you are saying. But gays here are an odd bunch. The lady boy thing seems to mess with the heads on both sides of the issue.

I have a good friend here who is a Tom. I loaned her the money to start her business and got paid back in full, in 60 days. It is my experience that dykes (this lady is definitely a dyke) are not quite the same as dykes in the West. There doesn't seem to be the anger that is common in the West.

Perhaps it is my limited experience or that I loaned her money or that I worked for a gay company in Thailand. Who knows but they were all really nice to me.

In the West even with people who worked for me and I treated well; I felt an undercurrent of distrust and dislike.

Or maybe it is a language issue. Western gays and lesbians seem to know all there is to know about gayness and how non gays are supposed to respond and be politically correct in each and every issue and subject while the Thai gay community seems a lot more relaxed and less domineering; more live and let live. More of a sense of humor and an ability to laugh at themselves. But I am certainly not an expert.

[brit1984]

This thread has become rather difficult to understand... and far removed from the original story

It was easier to follow before when everyone was sticking to the guy's 2 basic choices... dump her or have a threesome

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Your friend could do what a lot of reasonable Thais do when they think that there is too much to lose by divorcing or breaking up and have open / convenience marriage arrangement. This is a lot more common than it seems, particularly among the moneyed classes. You sit down, discuss the rules and then you might even go as far as vetting each others' part-time partners. A classic Asian detente.

Not just Asian, open marriages have also been quite common in the upper classes in the west as well. Only recently becoming acceptable enough to disclose publicly - but not for politicians in the US, witness Newt's recent evidence voters will forgive you being a promiscuous lying cheater, but God forbid he admit he tried to come to an honest arrangement with his wife.

As I explained earlier, Dee is not a lesbian, she is a heterosexual girl that is currently dating someone with the outward appearance of a man. To be a lesbian, she would need to be attracted to females who dress as girls. It is a heterosexual perversion.

This seems rather difficult for many here to grasp. Call a Dee a "lesbian" and she gets very upset!

Maybe in "Thainglish".

To me normal English terminology

homosexual = gay = exclusively prefers (people that are physically) the same sex (no matter how they dress)

lesbian = the above but only applies to females

bi-sexual = swings both ways

The finer points of the Thai language categories, or how they choose to mangle English words for their own purposes, like "mansion" or "serious" won't change how I use the words in my own language thanks.

Many Thai words/phrases don't have exact analogues in English eg "mia noi" "kreng jai".

Given a lesbian couple, I will usually refer to the male-acting/appearing one as Tom, and the feminine one as Dee.

If she also likes to go with men, then in English she's a bisexual woman. But I wouldn't count if she only goes with farang for financial reasons, just as many (most?) of the male sex workers around Boys Town just pretend to be gay for money but are actually hetero, that's just a job.