Sex Tourism To Thailand And Indonesia Driving Rise In HIV Cases

[geriatrickid]

I worry more about Hepatitis C. Not a word, and no national prevention or testing program.

The last big study was in published in 2010 in the Journal of Tropical Medicine. They tested 5200 Thai military conscripts. Approx. 2.5% were infected with HCV. That's heavy duty and serious.

More depressing is the Thai study of Bangkok prison inmates. Approx. 45% were infected with HCV. (This study was 2001 so I can only expect the situation is probably the same or worse now.)

BTW, it is a myth that the treatment for HIV has changed the situation. Far from it. Now we have a large population with a chronic disease accompanied by a long list of complications and other diseases, including TB. In Thailand, one just doesn't pop a few pills and is home free. It's a horrible life sentence with no counseling or social services support. Try and access health care if you are HIV+ and living in one of the poor regions.

[how241]

Really, what kind of moron does not use a condom with a one off or paid for sex partner?

Many....happens all the time.

[gand]

Do more farangs die of HIV in Thailand or by Thai police ruled "suicide"?

[gand]

'KATE KYRIACOU' Misandry much?

[spidermike007]

From later in the article -

"I would want to get that message out again about safe sex - I don't know how much young men are aware that Thailand is the HIV capital of the world," Dr Kidd said.

This guy is a f*%&ing moron and that isn't even remotely true. New infections in Thailand have dropped from +150,000 per year in the early 90s to 10,000 per year now, roughly the same per capita level as the United States. Southern African countries have 20-30% of the population infected and Thailand has less than 1%, and most of them infected more than 10 years ago and the number of new cases are relatively small.

I don't know if he is incredibly misinformed or he is deliberately spreading misinformation to keep people away from Thailand or because he is against prostitution for moral reasons. Either way he is an uninformed bigot

Thank you. There is so much fear mongering going on with the Thailand HIV thing, that it gets old after a while. I suspected a lot of the numbers are ill informed. Appreciate the clarity. Yes, if the man was American, he was on a moral high horse. 90% of Americans are.

[TomTao]

From later in the article -

"I would want to get that message out again about safe sex - I don't know how much young men are aware that Thailand is the HIV capital of the world," Dr Kidd said.

I don't know if he is incredibly misinformed or he is deliberately spreading misinformation to keep people away from Thailand or because he is against prostitution for moral reasons. Either way he is an uninformed bigot

I don't think his mission is to keep people away from Thailand - I think its more likely he wants to prevent people from catching HIV and if he has to lie or be creative with the truth to accomplish that, then good. This article is meant for domestic Australian consumption, if it offends Thailand but makes a young Aussie (or any race for that matter) think about wrapping up when he dips his wick, who cares it's worth it?!

Think about the amount of bull the Thai media puts out about other countries to boost there own image of Thailand.

The position of the AMA is that the public should be told the truth. If you remember the "bowling alley" ad campaign, it was withdrawn at the insistence of the AMA that it was false advertising. Sorry, no link. info as supplied by my oz doctor, who also supplied that transmission to healthy males (no penile sores) NOT engaging in anal sex or intravenous drug use is negligible because transmission requires a fluid transfer.

Statistics are slightly skewed by some men refusing to admit engaging in homosexual activity. Freddy Mercury held that stance until just before his death - who would have thought Freddy was gay?

Anecdotally, I know of 3 men who have found out that their long term partner was in varying stages of the disease. None have been infected.

Some time ago I was told that the chances of a man being infected with HIV from a woman during vaginal intercourse was 1%, but the chances of a woman being infected by a man who is carrying the disease during vaginal intercourse is 100%, when you have a man in a sexual relationship with another man the chances of infection if one of the partners is carrying the disease jump, I'm not sure of the figures but I'm sure someone would be, so the use of a condom is highly recommended, when I was in the navy my mother always said to me "be good, but if you can't be good be careful".

[salavan]

Really, what kind of moron does not use a condom with a one off or paid for sex partner?

hey bookman i live in thailang and i met dozens of men that wont wear a condom with prostitutes, i go drinking in the bars ofter and the girls tell me that the farang offer them more money to have sex without a condom

[BirdsandBooze]

I don`t know what the figures are for this year but I read a few years ago that 40% of new infections here were Thai wives given the virus by their promiscuous Thai husbands. Maybe someone could clarify this?

[BookMan]

Really, what kind of moron does not use a condom with a one off or paid for sex partner?

hey bookman i live in thailang and i met dozens of men that wont wear a condom with prostitutes, i go drinking in the bars ofter and the girls tell me that the farang offer them more money to have sex without a condom

It seems to be very common. I have met a few myself. Sure it feels better, but I really don't understand why you would take the risk. HIV aside, there is a myriad of other afflictions you can contract.

[Skywalker69]

Sex tourism to PNG - the home of the fabled ugly tree? Some of the women there may be attractive, but I've never been that drunk.

Men from north Queensland, must be bloody desperate "mate".

[geriatrickid]

Thank you. There is so much fear mongering going on with the Thailand HIV thing, that it gets old after a while. I suspected a lot of the numbers are ill informed. Appreciate the clarity. Yes, if the man was American, he was on a moral high horse. 90% of Americans are.

There is no fear mongering as you put it. The trends reported on are what they are. Every year Thai military conscripts have their medicals and every year the numbers show that HIV remains present in a population group that should not have such a high incidence.

What does the author's nationality have to do with the sad fact that sex tourists contract STIs? Are you aware that there was a pike in syphilis cases reported in Germany a few years ago? It was traced back to sex tourists. Does this mean that the public health officials that were caught off guard by the syphilis cases were on a high moral horse?

BTW, instead of cursing the USA, you and all the other American bashers ought to get down on your frigging knees and give thanks. The majority of Thailand's funding for public health research and for HIV/malaria/TB initiatives comes from US organizations. Whether it is the Bill & Melinda Gates or the William Jefferson Clinton Foundations or the US CDC/NIH/Military it is US sourced. The Chinese and Russians don't contribute anything. And no I am not an American.

[stickman]

can assure you that if 100 workers were randomly rounded up at the Bangla bars, or Paradise bars in Patong, 10-30 of the subjects would test positive (depending upon the tourist season). Now if I rounded up 100 people at random on the Mahidol campus, I would be surprised to find 1 that tested HIV+. It's all about where one casts his net for romance.

You can assure? I put it to you that you do not know what you're talking about here.

There are some bars in the foreigner oriented nightlife areas that really do carry out STD and HIV testing of their girls. Yes, some girls test positive for HIV. There are some, but they are amazingly few and far between. I am not talking here about girls going to a dodgy clinic to get a certificate when no test was carried out, but real tests at quality facilities.

Saying that 10 - 30% if women in Patong are HIV+ either means that Phuket is a magnet for HIV...or this is just plain wrong.

[PattayaParent]

Many years ago when the AIDS scares really started I read a report on the testing and analysis methods and it transpired that testing is different in Thailand and in the West.

In Thailand if 3 indicators were present then the person was declared HIV, but in the West 5 indictors were required to be present for a HIV diagnosis.

Is this still the case?

[FalangBaa]

From later in the article -

"I would want to get that message out again about safe sex - I don't know how much young men are aware that Thailand is the HIV capital of the world," Dr Kidd said.

This guy is a f*%&ing moron and that isn't even remotely true. New infections in Thailand have dropped from +150,000 per year in the early 90s to 10,000 per year now, roughly the same per capita level as the United States. Southern African countries have 20-30% of the population infected and Thailand has less than 1%, and most of them infected more than 10 years ago and the number of new cases are relatively small.

I don't know if he is incredibly misinformed or he is deliberately spreading misinformation to keep people away from Thailand or because he is against prostitution for moral reasons. Either way he is an uninformed bigot

There are many sources on the Internet you can Google that will tell you reliably that the rate of HIV infection in Thailand is currently around 2.5%. That is the figure for the GENERAL population. Among the population of professional sex workers, you can expect that percentage to be several times higher. My guess is that you have at least a 1 in 10 chance (10%) of coming into contact with the virus if you have unprotected sex with any sex worker in Thailand. If you do contact the virus from vaginal secretions, there is still not a great risk that it will get inside your bloodstream and replicate, especially if you are circumcised and wash your penis thoroughly with soap and water after sex. However, anyone who has unprotected sex with anyone other than their regular girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband who has already tested seronegative for HIV-1 is, in my humble opinion, a completely irresponsible idiot with a death wish.

[KhunVee]

Bottom line is, you should have protected sex at all times with anyone.

Even with your girlfriend/boyfriend until the time in the relationship where you can go and have the test and together.

When you're both declared HIV- (actually you can only and really know after 3 month and a re-test) you could start having unprotected sex, only when you're in that kind of relationship where sex is 100% monogamous.

If not, keep on wrapping...

My ex did not agree with this. That's how he became my ex.

[tragickingdom]

Australians are a bit like rednecks. If an incident occurs it is another country that really should be blamed. Sex tourism in Indonesia ?? Sex Tourism in Australia.... sure. You do not want to know how many Australian ladies want to be done by all those nice tourists coming to visit. They are bored of all the drunken Australian men. I bet that more tourists screw Australians than Australians Indonesian or Thai people.

In the land of Robert Murdoch the press and everything they write should be laughed off.

[david555]

Either way he is an uninformed bigot

The writer is a woman.

and possible an ugly one..?

[chooka]

Really, what kind of moron does not use a condom with a one off or paid for sex partner?

Many....happens all the time.

and a lot do not learn to stay away from bargirls, deserve everything they get.

[jonclark]

Thank you. There is so much fear mongering going on with the Thailand HIV thing, that it gets old after a while. I suspected a lot of the numbers are ill informed. Appreciate the clarity. Yes, if the man was American, he was on a moral high horse. 90% of Americans are.

There is no fear mongering as you put it. The trends reported on are what they are. Every year Thai military conscripts have their medicals and every year the numbers show that HIV remains present in a population group that should not have such a high incidence.

What does the author's nationality have to do with the sad fact that sex tourists contract STIs? Are you aware that there was a pike in syphilis cases reported in Germany a few years ago? It was traced back to sex tourists. Does this mean that the public health officials that were caught off guard by the syphilis cases were on a high moral horse?

BTW, instead of cursing the USA, you and all the other American bashers ought to get down on your frigging knees and give thanks. The majority of Thailand's funding for public health research and for HIV/malaria/TB initiatives comes from US organizations. Whether it is the Bill & Melinda Gates or the William Jefferson Clinton Foundations or the US CDC/NIH/Military it is US sourced. The Chinese and Russians don't contribute anything. And no I am not an American.

Indeed GK it is often forgotten that the majority of charitable, philanthropic or research organization active in the world are US based and the quietly go about their work trying to improve peoples lives. Good post! And no I am not American either.

[metisdead]

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[OzMick]

Australians are a bit like rednecks. If an incident occurs it is another country that really should be blamed. Sex tourism in Indonesia ?? Sex Tourism in Australia.... sure. You do not want to know how many Australian ladies want to be done by all those nice tourists coming to visit. They are bored of all the drunken Australian men. I bet that more tourists screw Australians than Australians Indonesian or Thai people.

In the land of Robert Murdoch the press and everything they write should be laughed off.

Your knowledge of the area absolutely underwhelms me.

FYI The people of PNG are not Indonesian. PNG is an independent country with close ties to Australia.

West New Guinea is made up of 2 Indonesian provinces, neither of which have a valid Point of Entry. Sex is difficult without a point of entry. There is no mention of Indonesia in the OP.

The rest of your post is not worthy of comment.

[w11guy]

Really, what kind of moron does not use a condom with a one off or paid for sex partner?

hey bookman i live in thailang and i met dozens of men that wont wear a condom with prostitutes, i go drinking in the bars ofter and the girls tell me that the farang offer them more money to have sex without a condom

It seems to be very common. I have met a few myself. Sure it feels better, but I really don't understand why you would take the risk. HIV aside, there is a myriad of other afflictions you can contract.

People take the risk because they think it won't happen to them. Which is the same reason that people smoke, drink and eat junk food. They don't think they will be the ones to get cancer, heart disease, etc. There is no difference between having unprotected sex and eating junk food. Both can lead to premature death.

In any case, some people gets their kicks by taking risks. If they want unprotected sex then that is their choice. Same as it's your choice to smoke, drink and eat junk food and die of cancer/

[Chopperboy]

In the last 2 years I have seen so many people with HIV related illnesses who either don't know or don't mention it. When they go to the hospital they just get patch up medication and sent on their way. If they don't ask, the doctor won't suggest testing for HIV - just treat the symptoms. When someone dies of HIV related cancer for example, that gets recorded as a cancer death not an HIV one.

[mrfill]

Some time ago I was told that the chances of a man being infected with HIV from a woman during vaginal intercourse was 1%, but the chances of a woman being infected by a man who is carrying the disease during vaginal intercourse is 100%, when you have a man in a sexual relationship with another man the chances of infection if one of the partners is carrying the disease jump, I'm not sure of the figures but I'm sure someone would be, so the use of a condom is highly recommended, when I was in the navy my mother always said to me "be good, but if you can't be good be careful".

So a woman has 100% 'chance' if she has sex with an infected man unless he has sex with other men, in which case the chances jump. In other words, more than 100%!!

It doesnt need Einstein to work out something is wrong there.

Rubbish statistics and reporting are the problem here. One poster stated that between 10 and 30% of bar girls in Patong would test HIV+. A more accurate range would be between 0 and 100%. Unless you test the entire group there WILL be a margin of error but so many 'experts' extrapolate their statistics from unrealistic samples and expect the world to believe them. Example: The increase in infections in Queensland and WA is due to the mining boom. Most infections involve gay men. Therefore most mining workers must be gay!!!

Lying about the problem, for whatever reason, is not helpful and may even be counter-productive as truthful reports could be ignored in the filtering process.

There *is* still a problem but nowadays it is more likely to be governments wishing to increase the wealth of the rich at the expense of the health of the poor.

[OzMick]

Some time ago I was told that the chances of a man being infected with HIV from a woman during vaginal intercourse was 1%, but the chances of a woman being infected by a man who is carrying the disease during vaginal intercourse is 100%, when you have a man in a sexual relationship with another man the chances of infection if one of the partners is carrying the disease jump, I'm not sure of the figures but I'm sure someone would be, so the use of a condom is highly recommended, when I was in the navy my mother always said to me "be good, but if you can't be good be careful".

So a woman has 100% 'chance' if she has sex with an infected man unless he has sex with other men, in which case the chances jump. In other words, more than 100%!!

It doesnt need Einstein to work out something is wrong there.

Rubbish statistics and reporting are the problem here. One poster stated that between 10 and 30% of bar girls in Patong would test HIV+. A more accurate range would be between 0 and 100%. Unless you test the entire group there WILL be a margin of error but so many 'experts' extrapolate their statistics from unrealistic samples and expect the world to believe them. Example: The increase in infections in Queensland and WA is due to the mining boom. Most infections involve gay men. Therefore most mining workers must be gay!!!

Lying about the problem, for whatever reason, is not helpful and may even be counter-productive as truthful reports could be ignored in the filtering process.

There *is* still a problem but nowadays it is more likely to be governments wishing to increase the wealth of the rich at the expense of the health of the poor.g

The largest group is women, who become easily infected from an infected man. As IV drug users tend to become less sexually active, the obvious cross-over is from homosexual men, or at least those that are bisexual. The actual level of bisexual activity is not well reported, mainly because many bisexual men would protest vehemently that they are not homosexual.

The recent article on the high incidence of HIV in transsexuals supports this.

[Chopperboy]

I knew a German guy who had a Thai GF, she also had a Thai man that worked in a Pattayaland gay bar.

All 3 are now dead, Thai guy got it, passed it onto her and she kindly infected the German.

Luck of the draw.

Infection is unlikely in a single encounter. High rates of infection have been linked to a pattern of overlapping long-term sexual relationships. This allows the virus to quickly spread to multiple partners who in turn infect their partners. A pattern of serial monogamy or occasional casual encounters is associated with lower rates of infection.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Chopperboy

[sirchai]

Some time ago I was told that the chances of a man being infected with HIV from a woman during vaginal intercourse was 1%, but the chances of a woman being infected by a man who is carrying the disease during vaginal intercourse is 100%, when you have a man in a sexual relationship with another man the chances of infection if one of the partners is carrying the disease jump, I'm not sure of the figures but I'm sure someone would be, so the use of a condom is highly recommended, when I was in the navy my mother always said to me "be good, but if you can't be good be careful".

So a woman has 100% 'chance' if she has sex with an infected man unless he has sex with other men, in which case the chances jump. In other words, more than 100%!!

It doesnt need Einstein to work out something is wrong there.

Rubbish statistics and reporting are the problem here. One poster stated that between 10 and 30% of bar girls in Patong would test HIV+. A more accurate range would be between 0 and 100%. Unless you test the entire group there WILL be a margin of error but so many 'experts' extrapolate their statistics from unrealistic samples and expect the world to believe them. Example: The increase in infections in Queensland and WA is due to the mining boom. Most infections involve gay men. Therefore most mining workers must be gay!!!

Lying about the problem, for whatever reason, is not helpful and may even be counter-productive as truthful reports could be ignored in the filtering process.

There *is* still a problem but nowadays it is more likely to be governments wishing to increase the wealth of the rich at the expense of the health of the poor.

" The increase in infections in Queensland and WA is due to the mining boom. Most infections involve gay men. Therefore most mining workers must be gay!!!"

They should employ more female prostitutes working in mining and whining industry to prevent with protection.........

Edited May 21, 2012 by sirchai

[metisdead]

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[denishuahin]

HIV, My girlfriend work’s in various Hospital labs around Buriram testing blood one small town south of Nang Rong with a population of 12000 according to Wikipedia. She had 128 HIV hospital outpatients being tested and receiving treatment and drugs every month some would travel back from Pattaya every month. She told me that many are tested and don’t want to tell anyone and she never see’s them again, so the figure maybe more than double that. They do not have to tell anyone that they have HIV there is no law to punish them that if they infect someone deliberately. I think that in reality we should be talking about 2%+ without a doubt. We have here the same attitude to HIV as driving and many other activities, it’s up to me! I have lived here 7 years and every day I know less than the day before how the Thai mind works.

[chooka]

HIV, My girlfriend work’s in various Hospital labs around Buriram testing blood one small town south of Nang Rong with a population of 12000 according to Wikipedia. She had 128 HIV hospital outpatients being tested and receiving treatment and drugs every month some would travel back from Pattaya every month. She told me that many are tested and don’t want to tell anyone and she never see’s them again, so the figure maybe more than double that. They do not have to tell anyone that they have HIV there is no law to punish them that if they infect someone deliberately. I think that in reality we should be talking about 2%+ without a doubt. We have here the same attitude to HIV as driving and many other activities, it’s up to me! I have lived here 7 years and every day I know less than the day before how the Thai mind works.

No law in Thailand that is..