If you're a fat bastard it's because you eat too much...

If you actually BELIEVE it is all that simple rather than just trying to be provocative, I truly feel sorry for you.

No I'm not trying to be provocative. I just have opinions that are different to yours and I'm expressing them. I know you find this hard to deal with but deal with it you will have to. I have been there, done that and got the Tshirt. I was fat - now I'm less so. I'm not a sylph but I'm not a lardarse either. I don't exercise much if at all. I did it simply by changing the things I eat and, more importantly sticking to that change. I didn't go on a diet for 3 months and then, when I'd lost weight, revert to my old eating habits. The change stayed - so did the weight loss.

And you think your little personal experience of ONE person applies to hundreds of millions of fat people? Amazing.

Of course the fatness quite often starts in childhood, again through little or no fault of the young'uns. Then those kiddies are mostly doomed to adult obesity. Not meaningless personal anecdotes. Facts.

And who feeds these fat kids? Mom and Dad instilling bad habits in the kids by feeding them junk.

Yes of course. Duh! What's your point?

The point is that bad eating habits make people obese and these habits are learned - they ARE NOT in anyone's genes.

Of course the fatness quite often starts in childhood, again through little or no fault of the young'uns. Then those kiddies are mostly doomed to adult obesity. Not meaningless personal anecdotes. Facts.

And who feeds these fat kids? Mom and Dad instilling bad habits in the kids by feeding them junk.

Yes of course. Duh! What's your point?

The point is that bad eating habits make people obese and these habits are learned - they ARE NOT in anyone's genes.

OMG! Have you bothered to read my posts here?!? I have said and linked MANY TIMES that the causes of obesity are VERY COMPLEX! I have never said what you eat and the quality of it isn't a big factor. But once a child is fat it should tell you something that most DO end up as fat for life, in a world where the best doctors can do is say diet and exercise, clearly that is NOT doing the job! You would hope for and expect better when going to a doctor for help. You would hope for a cure that actually USUALLY works. With obesity, they don't have that to offer yet except for extreme therapies like stomach surgery which obviously can't be done for many people.

Genetics ARE a larger factor for many people. Not all people. I posted a link before saying it was about 40 percent. Obviously, science can't tell us that precisely.

Please stop distorting or simplifying my points here. I am talking about the COMPLEXITY of this problem. It's you lot who want to say, just stop eating, who are the ones trying to SIMPLIFY it.

QUOTE from LINK: (too many quotes to use tool)

''On balance, governments appear yet to find a way to effectively intervene to reduce obesity prevalence among children,'' the report says.

This could reflect the inherent complexities and multiple causes of obesity and might also reflect deficient policy and evaluation.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz1wolQJwBv

http://www.smh.com.a...1025-170ws.html

That's a good point koheesti. Schools now are checking kids lunchboxes and dictating what they eat when at school.

This is because there are many irresponsible parents out there. Sad fact.

If you're a fat bastard it's because you eat too much...

If you actually BELIEVE it is all that simple rather than just trying to be provocative, I truly feel sorry for you.

No I'm not trying to be provocative. I just have opinions that are different to yours and I'm expressing them. I know you find this hard to deal with but deal with it you will have to. I have been there, done that and got the Tshirt. I was fat - now I'm less so. I'm not a sylph but I'm not a lardarse either. I don't exercise much if at all. I did it simply by changing the things I eat and, more importantly sticking to that change. I didn't go on a diet for 3 months and then, when I'd lost weight, revert to my old eating habits. The change stayed - so did the weight loss.

And you think your little personal experience of ONE person applies to hundreds of millions of fat people? Amazing.

Now who's being provocative? My 'little personal experience'? Perhaps you ought to calm down a little. Go onto the UK diabetes forums and ask all the folks on there who have managed to lose weight permanently and reverse their diabetic symptoms at the same time.

What about the billions of people round the world who aren't fat? What's their excuse for not being ill?

The people who aren't fat don't have the health problem of obesity. The people who are fat do. I thought the topic was about obesity.

If you only eat when you are hungry that is certainly one of the steps to becoming slimmer.

I totally agree.

I am not in love with food or the act of eating. I do it because my body needs the energy. Unless I'm bored at home, I only eat when I'm hungry. Most people eat just because "it is time to eat" regardless if they are hungry or not. If I had kids, I'd be sure they ate breakfast, lunch and dinner. But as a fully grown, single adult male, I can afford to eat only when I'm hungry.

Pardon the following anecdote, I know it will drive someone crazy...

Not long ago an acquaintance asked where I wanted to go for dinner. I told him that I wasn't going to have dinner because I wasn't hungry. He said that I must have dinner! People need to eat! I replied that I don't need to eat if I'm not hungry. If I get hungry later I'll munch on carrots or something.

I've read that one way to lose weight is to drive a bottle of water before a meal. It will give you a sensation of being full so you won't eat so much. Of course, it probably won't help if you have a fat brain or fat genes. But for everyone else it is probably a good idea to try.

That's a good tip about drinking water. I am not against people trying. I am just saying the vast majority have failed so if societies want to conquer the obesity epidemic they must develop better holistic and treatment strategies than just telling people to show some self control. Because it is not only not working (in totality, not your irrelevant personal stories) it is getting worse, much worse actually. I don't have the full answer yet because medical science and social policies don't have it yet either. But that's what should be worked on more, not tactics that have been proven not to worth for the masses.

OMG! Have you bothered to read my posts here?!? I have said and linked MANY TIMES that the causes of obesity are VERY COMPLEX! I have never said what you eat and the quality of it isn't a big factor. But once a child is fat it should tell you something that most DO end up as fat for life, in a world where the best doctors can do is say diet and exercise, clearly that is NOT doing the job! You would hope for and expect better when going to a doctor for help. You would hope for a cure that actually USUALLY works. With obesity, they don't have that to offer yet except for extreme therapies like stomach surgery which obviously can't be done for many people.

Genetics ARE a larger factor for many people. Not all people. I posted a link before saying it was about 40 percent. Obviously, science can't tell us that precisely.

Please stop distorting or simplifying my points here. I am talking about the COMPLEXITY of this problem. It's you lot who want to say, just stop eating, who are the ones trying to SIMPLIFY it.

QUOTE from LINK: (too many quotes to use tool)

''On balance, governments appear yet to find a way to effectively intervene to reduce obesity prevalence among children,'' the report says.

This could reflect the inherent complexities and multiple causes of obesity and might also reflect deficient policy and evaluation.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz1wolQJwBv

http://www.smh.com.a...1025-170ws.html

The link you post, in the article, also says... and i quote..

"The taskforce called for a comprehensive approach including policies to reduce junk food marketing to children and improved package labelling, Ms Martin said.

''The most cost-effective interventions for obesity prevention were a 10 per cent tax on junk food, restricting unhealthy food advertising to children and traffic-light labelling of food,'' she said

This quote would seem to focus on reducing the amount of junk food intake children have, a point that nearly every poster here has been saying in one way or anther.

reduce crap food intake...reduce obesity.

The point is that bad eating habits make people obese and these habits are learned - they ARE NOT in anyone's genes.

OMG! Have you bothered to read my posts here?!? I

Unfortunately, yes.

More about the complexity of obesity point of view, which I obviously favor. Most here appear to be on the simple minded view of this debate which is a debate not only going on here but in the wider culture in many parts of the world. I just don't buy that obesity causation and cure is the slightest bit simple, and neither does modern science:

I explained how the world has changed, in that life nowadays goes out of its way to push energy intake. Virtually each and every one of us inadvertently consumes more calories than we used to, thanks to such things as our faster pace of life, federal farm subsidies that drive the increased availability of low-cost calories, an exponential rise in food advertising (especially the advertising targeting children), increased reliance on meals purchased outside of the home, scientifically engineered hyper-palatability, the health-halos of front-of-package health claims, mindless eating cues, growing portion sizes and the incredible failing of public health officials to provide useful, evidence-based guidance on nutrition and energy balance.

Couple those issues with what we're learning about things like genetics, epigenetics, obesogens, fMRI food addiction studies, weight contributing medical co-morbidities, drug-induced weight gain, and the failing of our medical education system to educate physicians about how to deal with obesity, and the "how" reveals itself to be a highly complex, multi-factorial, amalgam of cause.

It is this complexity that precludes simplified to the point of useless, "eat less, move more" messaging, and certainly it also reveals the error and bias in an individualized, blame based attribution to obesity's causes and solutions.

http://www.weightyma...complexity.html

My conclusion is that "believing" that obesity is simple shows both intellectual laziness and a dark side of humanity to demonize unattractive people, because yes in modern culture, fat is ugly.

OMG! Have you bothered to read my posts here?!? I have said and linked MANY TIMES that the causes of obesity are VERY COMPLEX! I have never said what you eat and the quality of it isn't a big factor. But once a child is fat it should tell you something that most DO end up as fat for life, in a world where the best doctors can do is say diet and exercise, clearly that is NOT doing the job! You would hope for and expect better when going to a doctor for help. You would hope for a cure that actually USUALLY works. With obesity, they don't have that to offer yet except for extreme therapies like stomach surgery which obviously can't be done for many people.

Genetics ARE a larger factor for many people. Not all people. I posted a link before saying it was about 40 percent. Obviously, science can't tell us that precisely.

Please stop distorting or simplifying my points here. I am talking about the COMPLEXITY of this problem. It's you lot who want to say, just stop eating, who are the ones trying to SIMPLIFY it.

QUOTE from LINK: (too many quotes to use tool)

''On balance, governments appear yet to find a way to effectively intervene to reduce obesity prevalence among children,'' the report says.

This could reflect the inherent complexities and multiple causes of obesity and might also reflect deficient policy and evaluation.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz1wolQJwBv

http://www.smh.com.a...1025-170ws.html

The link you post, in the article, also says... and i quote..

"The taskforce called for a comprehensive approach including policies to reduce junk food marketing to children and improved package labelling, Ms Martin said.

''The most cost-effective interventions for obesity prevention were a 10 per cent tax on junk food, restricting unhealthy food advertising to children and traffic-light labelling of food,'' she said

This quote would seem to focus on reducing the amount of junk food intake children have, a point that nearly every poster here has been saying in one way or anther.

reduce crap food intake...reduce obesity.

Where did you get the DAFT idea I would be opposed to that or that I think that would not HELP? But again, one factor in a VERY COMPLEX overall picture.

That's a good tip about drinking water. I am not against people trying. I am just saying the vast majority have failed so if societies want to conquer the obesity epidemic they must develop better holistic and treatment strategies than just telling people to show some self control. Because it is not only not working (in totality, not your irrelevant personal stories) it is getting worse, much worse actually.

People like you do such a horrible disservice to people wanting to lose weight. My personal story is much more relevant than any of the pseudo-science drivel you have been posting. I - and several other posters here - have lost weight and know how to keep it off. Obese people should pay attention to the millions of personal success stories to get a clue how to lose weight instead of blaming some mythical "disease" or "gene".

You're not interested in science, mythical or otherwise. I'm happy for anyone's personal success, but if you think sharing success stories with the vast majority of obese people who do stay obese for life (excepting swings) will solve the global obesity epidemic in itself, well, you're just obviously wrong. You would be a doing a disservice to suggest such tripe.

If you only eat when you are hungry that is certainly one of the steps to becoming slimmer.

I totally agree.

I am not in love with food or the act of eating. I do it because my body needs the energy. Unless I'm bored at home, I only eat when I'm hungry. Most people eat just because "it is time to eat" regardless if they are hungry or not. If I had kids, I'd be sure they ate breakfast, lunch and dinner. But as a fully grown, single adult male, I can afford to eat only when I'm hungry.

Pardon the following anecdote, I know it will drive someone crazy...

Not long ago an acquaintance asked where I wanted to go for dinner. I told him that I wasn't going to have dinner because I wasn't hungry. He said that I must have dinner! People need to eat! I replied that I don't need to eat if I'm not hungry. If I get hungry later I'll munch on carrots or something.

I've read that one way to lose weight is to drive a bottle of water before a meal. It will give you a sensation of being full so you won't eat so much. Of course, it probably won't help if you have a fat brain or fat genes. But for everyone else it is probably a good idea to try.

I used to really love my food. I would estimate that going back 10-20 years years ago I would have eaten twice as much daily as what I do today, . At the time I was about 10kgs heavier than I am now. At one time during this period a group of us decided to try out every buffet we could find in Sydney. Top Hotels, Clubs, anything. I don't know how many we tried but it was a lot and we ate a hell of a lot at all of them. We would eat so much that our stomachs would be bursting and I would feel sick.

I ate anything I wanted that looked good through that period: Meat pies, Vanilla slices, Pastries, potato chips, lollies, hamburgers, Hot chips, pizza.

For various reasons I started to watch what I ate. I gave up the buffets, the hamburgers, the meat pies, the lollies, the pizza. It sure wasn't easy. It took me a few years to give up most of the crap I was eating. I will still eat all those things but now only in moderation.

Things I now do differently:

Now, when I go to a buffet, I only eat what I feel like. I don't eat for the sake of eating.

I chew my food a lot. Instead of one bite and its down I take my time, chew it slow , and enjoy it.

I eat less of everything.

I eat a lot of salad.

I often think about some type of junk food. And that's all I do. I don't go and buy it. I think about it then forget it.

I still eat Ice cream and potato chips etc, but in moderation. I don't gorge myself.

I only buy junk food treats when i want them. I don't store them in the cupboard or fridge.

Sometimes I only eat two meals a day. Depends if I am hungry.

I now hate the feeling of overeating. I feel bloated, full and heavy. I am not a big exerciser, in the sense I have not been to a gym for 20 years, I don't swim, power walk or jog. I would consider myself relatively lazy when it comes to exercise. I gave up smoking 8 years ago and i am not a big drinker.

I really don't miss all the food I used to eat. Sometimes I wonder how I ate so much.

I really cant imagine how fat I would be now if I hadnt curbed my intake.

If we are not allowed to call people fat bastards, how is Chubby Brown supposed to continue to earn a living?

OMG! Have you bothered to read my posts here?!? I have said and linked MANY TIMES that the causes of obesity are VERY COMPLEX! I have never said what you eat and the quality of it isn't a big factor. But once a child is fat it should tell you something that most DO end up as fat for life, in a world where the best doctors can do is say diet and exercise, clearly that is NOT doing the job! You would hope for and expect better when going to a doctor for help. You would hope for a cure that actually USUALLY works. With obesity, they don't have that to offer yet except for extreme therapies like stomach surgery which obviously can't be done for many people.

Genetics ARE a larger factor for many people. Not all people. I posted a link before saying it was about 40 percent. Obviously, science can't tell us that precisely.

Please stop distorting or simplifying my points here. I am talking about the COMPLEXITY of this problem. It's you lot who want to say, just stop eating, who are the ones trying to SIMPLIFY it.

QUOTE from LINK: (too many quotes to use tool)

''On balance, governments appear yet to find a way to effectively intervene to reduce obesity prevalence among children,'' the report says.

This could reflect the inherent complexities and multiple causes of obesity and might also reflect deficient policy and evaluation.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz1wolQJwBv

http://www.smh.com.a...1025-170ws.html

The link you post, in the article, also says... and i quote..

"The taskforce called for a comprehensive approach including policies to reduce junk food marketing to children and improved package labelling, Ms Martin said.

''The most cost-effective interventions for obesity prevention were a 10 per cent tax on junk food, restricting unhealthy food advertising to children and traffic-light labelling of food,'' she said

This quote would seem to focus on reducing the amount of junk food intake children have, a point that nearly every poster here has been saying in one way or anther.

reduce crap food intake...reduce obesity.

Where did you get the DAFT idea I would be opposed to that or that I think that would not HELP? But again, one factor in a VERY COMPLEX overall picture.

I guess you gave me that DAFT idea JT.

You seem to be fixated on medical solutions so I naturally thought you were ignoring the advice of experts in the article, which basically recommends eating less.

OMG! Have you bothered to read my posts here?!? I have said and linked MANY TIMES that the causes of obesity are VERY COMPLEX! I have never said what you eat and the quality of it isn't a big factor. But once a child is fat it should tell you something that most DO end up as fat for life, in a world where the best doctors can do is say diet and exercise, clearly that is NOT doing the job! You would hope for and expect better when going to a doctor for help. You would hope for a cure that actually USUALLY works. With obesity, they don't have that to offer yet except for extreme therapies like stomach surgery which obviously can't be done for many people.

Genetics ARE a larger factor for many people. Not all people. I posted a link before saying it was about 40 percent. Obviously, science can't tell us that precisely.

Please stop distorting or simplifying my points here. I am talking about the COMPLEXITY of this problem. It's you lot who want to say, just stop eating, who are the ones trying to SIMPLIFY it.

QUOTE from LINK: (too many quotes to use tool)

''On balance, governments appear yet to find a way to effectively intervene to reduce obesity prevalence among children,'' the report says.

This could reflect the inherent complexities and multiple causes of obesity and might also reflect deficient policy and evaluation.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz1wolQJwBv

http://www.smh.com.a...1025-170ws.html

The link you post, in the article, also says... and i quote..

"The taskforce called for a comprehensive approach including policies to reduce junk food marketing to children and improved package labelling, Ms Martin said.

''The most cost-effective interventions for obesity prevention were a 10 per cent tax on junk food, restricting unhealthy food advertising to children and traffic-light labelling of food,'' she said

This quote would seem to focus on reducing the amount of junk food intake children have, a point that nearly every poster here has been saying in one way or anther.

reduce crap food intake...reduce obesity.

Where did you get the DAFT idea I would be opposed to that or that I think that would not HELP? But again, one factor in a VERY COMPLEX overall picture.

It is not very complex, predicting the weather is complex, and the way that you are using that term just comes across as patronising (patronising, that's talking down to people)

Here's the scenario.

You have in essence a 50 kilo bag of sand strapped to your waist.

Now, you decide to go on A diet and a small hole opens in the bag letting the sand out slowly.

The bag eventually drops in weight to 40 kilos, it is much easier to carry, and now requires less energy to do, so you need to lower your energy intake even more in order to keep the sand flowing, repeat that process until all the sand is gone, and then you can stick to your next review of intake, a balanced one.

That is what should happen. In reality this is what happens.

The bag gets down to 40 kilos, but intake isn't reviewed downwards and the bag starts to fill up again, that is the cause of the vicious cycle, not the body resetting itself nonsense.

In the worst case scenario, you drop 10 kilos and think 'hey, I deserve a treat' ..... game over.

There is no mystery to it, and that is why these mythical scientist will never find a miracle cure, because there isn't one, and there is no quick fix.

Obesity is VERY COMPLEX; I agree. It is actually a group name for a number of conditions. That's why scientists will NEVER find a pill to cure obesity as such. They may find a pill to cure compulsive eating disorder, over-production of digestive enzyme (or would it be under-production?) etc. I'm not a scientist, and I don't pretend to understand all the complexities.

But I, like everyone else, has to decide how to live my life, and whether I want to carry excess weight around with me, or whether I want to stay slim and enjoy life more. This happens to be one area where I think I can make decisions which will make the difference. I'm not waiting for scientists to tell me what to do, and I'm not going to do nothing because there isn't an easy solution. In fact I don't really have a weight problem, so the decisions I need to make are not major ones.

But other people do. Whether they're in a majority or a minority, none of us know; Nobody in this whole thread, as far as I can remember, has come up with any figures. This is why I, and others, object to expressions like "the vast majority". Maybe; maybe not.

Obesity rates grow annually in countries like Austalia, Thailand, the USA. They don't go down. If very many were curing their obesity the rates would be going down every year, not UP every year. The reality is very few are curing their obesity. That ain't rocket science. Sorry, I think that anyone who seriously believes that a large percentage of obese people cure themselves for life with diet and exercise doesn't even understand the basic facts about this epidemic. It's head in the sand level, speaking of sand.

Are you saying that Obese people are being ostrich-ised?

Are you saying that Obese people are being ostrich-ised?

That too. Certainly here they are.

If you only eat when you are hungry that is certainly one of the steps to becoming slimmer.

I totally agree.

I am not in love with food or the act of eating. I do it because my body needs the energy. Unless I'm bored at home, I only eat when I'm hungry. Most people eat just because "it is time to eat" regardless if they are hungry or not. If I had kids, I'd be sure they ate breakfast, lunch and dinner. But as a fully grown, single adult male, I can afford to eat only when I'm hungry.

Pardon the following anecdote, I know it will drive someone crazy...

Not long ago an acquaintance asked where I wanted to go for dinner. I told him that I wasn't going to have dinner because I wasn't hungry. He said that I must have dinner! People need to eat! I replied that I don't need to eat if I'm not hungry. If I get hungry later I'll munch on carrots or something.

I've read that one way to lose weight is to drive a bottle of water before a meal. It will give you a sensation of being full so you won't eat so much. Of course, it probably won't help if you have a fat brain or fat genes. But for everyone else it is probably a good idea to try.

Koheesti:

I've found a Snicker bar works the same was as your water cure.

By the way, since we are into our own personal experiences, I must tell you about how I gained my weight. I quit smoking a little over 20 years ago and I weighed 70 kilos at the time. You may recall I quit cold turkey?

This drastic action must have made my fat genes pop out since I gained nearly 15 kilos the first month after I stopped smoking. I have lost it several times and regained it an equal number of times, so there you have it.

I am diseased and hoping my government will cure me...as soon as they can find a cure for the common cold, that is.

The obesity discussion breaks out into the real world:

Are you ready for prime rib time? I know I am!

Obesity rates grow annually in countries like Austalia, Thailand, the USA. They don't go down. If very many were curing their obesity the rates would be going down every year, not UP every year. The reality is very few are curing their obesity. That ain't rocket science. Sorry, I think that anyone who seriously believes that a large percentage of obese people cure themselves for life with diet and exercise doesn't even understand the basic facts about this epidemic. It's head in the sand level, speaking of sand.

Taking away the Xbox/Playstation will do wonders for the obesity "epidemic".

Obesity rates grow annually in countries like Austalia, Thailand, the USA. They don't go down. If very many were curing their obesity the rates would be going down every year, not UP every year. The reality is very few are curing their obesity. That ain't rocket science. Sorry, I think that anyone who seriously believes that a large percentage of obese people cure themselves for life with diet and exercise doesn't even understand the basic facts about this epidemic. It's head in the sand level, speaking of sand.

Taking away the Xbox/Playstation will do wonders for the obesity "epidemic".

Every little bit helps. All part of a very COMPLEX situation.

Interesting topic ..

By 2 cents ...

I am starting to turn into a fat bastard because of my diet in the uk ... People have seen me in Thailand and the first thing they question is how fat I have got in 6 months .. Now I will change my diet when I get back to the uk and do more exercise .. But I think people need to be called fat bastards and get down the bloody gym formthem to realize .. I know it has shocked me and I will change ..

Anyway , I am staying off the kebabs for a while http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2153968/Teenage-girl-cut-house-loses-stone-WEEK.html

Obesity rates grow annually in countries like Austalia, Thailand, the USA. They don't go down. If very many were curing their obesity the rates would be going down every year, not UP every year. The reality is very few are curing their obesity. That ain't rocket science. Sorry, I think that anyone who seriously believes that a large percentage of obese people cure themselves for life with diet and exercise doesn't even understand the basic facts about this epidemic. It's head in the sand level, speaking of sand.

Taking away the Xbox/Playstation will do wonders for the obesity "epidemic".

Together with the processed carb-laden food.

Obesity rates grow annually in countries like Austalia, Thailand, the USA. They don't go down. If very many were curing their obesity the rates would be going down every year, not UP every year. The reality is very few are curing their obesity. That ain't rocket science. Sorry, I think that anyone who seriously believes that a large percentage of obese people cure themselves for life with diet and exercise doesn't even understand the basic facts about this epidemic. It's head in the sand level, speaking of sand.

Taking away the Xbox/Playstation will do wonders for the obesity "epidemic".

Together with the processed carb-laden food.

Totally agree. We're on a roll. A lobster roll! With tons of mayo. Uh oh. I think some of you have misinterpreted my attitude on fat. I think it's a problem not only for individuals but for entire societies.

Obesity rates grow annually in countries like Austalia, Thailand, the USA. They don't go down. If very many were curing their obesity the rates would be going down every year, not UP every year. The reality is very few are curing their obesity. That ain't rocket science. Sorry, I think that anyone who seriously believes that a large percentage of obese people cure themselves for life with diet and exercise doesn't even understand the basic facts about this epidemic. It's head in the sand level, speaking of sand.

Taking away the Xbox/Playstation will do wonders for the obesity "epidemic".

And the remote for the TV and Dial-a-Pizza, and KFC, and McD's and maid service, and electric lawn mowers, washing machines etc

It's quite amazing how much this fat virus has spread with so little help, and quite astounding how this illness didn't thrive in the days of walking, wash boards and having to stand up to change the channel.