Motor Oil Wars!

[jbowman1993]

What motor oil is the best? Regular or synthetic? What brand do you prefer?

I was a Quaker State man back in the states, but i think Ill have to make a new choice now, when I get my car this month.

Opinions?

[sierra01]

Synthetic is best but bl**dy expensive, semi synthetic is a good compromise. Stick to the well known brands as well, none of the cheapo stuff in the markets.

[Tywais]

Synthetic is best but bl**dy expensive, semi synthetic is a good compromise. Stick to the well known brands as well, none of the cheapo stuff in the markets.

I remember reading a very long time ago that if your car has been using regular oil for a long period (beyond break in) that it wasn't advisable to switch to synthetic. I guess the OP is getting a new car so would need to make the decision then. Any truth in this?

Edited January 5, 2006 by tywais

[sierra01]

Not a clue tywais!

As a very unexpert, I can't see it making much difference really. Any proper experts out there please tell us!

I do know that modern engines run hotter than the oldies so a good quality oil is very important.

[Tywais]

Not a clue tywais!

As a very unexpert, I can't see it making much difference really. Any proper experts out there please tell us!

I do know that modern engines run hotter than the oldies so a good quality oil is very important.

Ahh, found the answer however it may be from a biased source:

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil...tics/Myths.aspx

[Gary A]

If you are buying a new one the dealer will use whatever is recommended for that particular vehicle.

[sierra01]

If you are buying a new one the dealer will use whatever is recommended for that particular vehicle.

And it will have the manufacturer's name printed on it, just good old 20/50. The modern synthetic oils are a world away from those.

[Gazza]

I switched to syn a few years ago for the bike and noticed a difference immediately. The bike's engine temp was nearly always 120 degrees. I switched to semi-syn and the temp gauge on the oilstick dropped to 110. Using full syn dropped it down further to 100 exactly.

With full syn the engine began to turn over slightly easier and quicker too, which I suppose places less strain and drain on the battery and prolongs its life.

Only problem is the price. Harley 20-50 syn oil is about 800b a litre. Haven't seen any other brand with 20-50 syn.

Tywais, the only bad things I've heard is that switching to syn may clean out gunge from the engine that may be blocking what would otherwise become an oil leak.

And, some people said that synthetic was too slippery and caused bearings to start skidding instead of rolling. But then if there's friction enough to allow bearings to roll, then surely friction leads to wearing?

[spacebass]

Synthetic oil is without question far superior to mineral oil, one of the main reasons for this is that all the molecules are the same size unlike those in mineral oil, permiting much better lubrication and the generation of less heat because of the lesser friction in the oil.

It is clear from the above that mixing synthetic oil with mineral oil will completely defeat this important advantage so I believe that the mixtures are more of an oil company ruse to capitalise on the possible advantage of such a mixture, it may be a bit better but it does not retain proportionately the superiority of synthetic oil.

Do a search on google and there is stacks of info including info about how the oil companies have had us changing oil unnecessarily often for years , to increase sales and how the 'oil flush and refill' available in many auto service chains in the U.S. is in fact the worst thing you could do for your old car!

[apetley]

In the past every time I have bought a new car or motorcycle I have been recommended to run(break) it in using mineral oil and then switch to fully synthetic. That same advice was given by various dealers.

At the time the reason was given and seemed perfectly sound but I'm blowed if I can remember!

[Gazza]

In the past every time I have bought a new car or motorcycle I have been recommended to run(break) it in using mineral oil and then switch to fully synthetic. That same advice was given by various dealers.

At the time the reason was given and seemed perfectly sound but I'm blowed if I can remember!

Syn supposedly wasn't good for breaking-in because it didn't allow enough friction to get things like rings and cylinder bore matching. Do new vehicles still require break-in periods? I thought with the closer machining tolerances and better components that break-ins weren't longer necessary.

Still, if I ever get a new car or bike I'd still take things easy for the first few hundred Kms anyway, if only to get used to the handling and braking etc.

[Thaiboxer]

Most auto service centers in the US will tell you to change your oil every 3,000 miles (4,800km). This is not necessary but of course the oil companies don't want you to know this. For regular engines (non-turbo) you can go 5,000 miles (8,000km) between oil changes and be perfectly ok. Turbo charged engines run at higher temperatures and require synthetic oil as regular oil would simply cook inside the engine. I'm not sure how far one should go between oil changes for a turbo charged engine but you will probably have to change the oil more often than you would for a regular engine.

[Rigger]

I tend to belive Synthetic oils are better

But I just read something last week about some tests that where carried out on cheap brand oils and expencive oils and at the end of the day the difference was 0

Also the US goverment have started cracking down on companys that make false claims. Like slick 50 has had to change what was writen on the bottle as they could not prove it did what they claimed

[apetley]

In the past every time I have bought a new car or motorcycle I have been recommended to run(break) it in using mineral oil and then switch to fully synthetic. That same advice was given by various dealers.

At the time the reason was given and seemed perfectly sound but I'm blowed if I can remember!

Syn supposedly wasn't good for breaking-in because it didn't allow enough friction to get things like rings and cylinder bore matching. Do new vehicles still require break-in periods? I thought with the closer machining tolerances and better components that break-ins weren't longer necessary.

Still, if I ever get a new car or bike I'd still take things easy for the first few hundred Kms anyway, if only to get used to the handling and braking etc.

Always best to take it easy on a brand new engine.

Bought a new Yam 1100 and the run in period was 1000 k's.

Bought a new Yamaha motocrosser and was told to take it easy for the first 15 minutes, haha!

[mraitchison]

Motul Fully Synthetic.

Can't remember the rating

About 250 a litre but a decent oil - 1100cc 135bhp at the wheel means that it needs the best it to keep it smooth.

Change oil and filter every 2000km's

[Gary A]

Synthetic oil is without a doubt superior to regular motor oil. HOWEVER, dirt is the biggest cause of engine wear so that makes the oil filter as or even more important than the oil. Modern engine oil has additives that oxidize and are lost. The additives are mainly detergents that keep the engine clean. Other than for racing engines I think synthetics are a waste of money. Follow the manufacturer's recommendation and your engine will be happy and will live a long life.

[jbowman1993]

Thanks for the suggestions. Lots of good information, and opinions. Any vigo owners out there. What do you use for in your truck?

Peace

[gharknes]

never use fully synthetic oil in a new car, make sure you have at least 10,000 miles before even considering it, FS oil is over kill for every day driving that most of us do, mineral is fine, semi synth is better

good oils are ester based, if you use a none ester based FS oil then you may as well use mineral.

only time i ever used FS oil was when I competed in motor sport in a 350bhp turbo charged sports car that was driven to the limit for long duration.

for normal family transport i'd go for a good branded semi, in this climate you probably want a 15W50 or 20W50 viscosity oil.

[ajahnlau]

I switched to syn a few years ago for the bike and noticed a difference immediately. The bike's engine temp was nearly always 120 degrees. I switched to semi-syn and the temp gauge on the oilstick dropped to 110. Using full syn dropped it down further to 100 exactly.

With full syn the engine began to turn over slightly easier and quicker too, which I suppose places less strain and drain on the battery and prolongs its life.

Only problem is the price. Harley 20-50 syn oil is about 800b a litre. Haven't seen any other brand with 20-50 syn.

Tywais, the only bad things I've heard is that switching to syn may clean out gunge from the engine that may be blocking what would otherwise become an oil leak.

And, some people said that synthetic was too slippery and caused bearings to start skidding instead of rolling. But then if there's friction enough to allow bearings to roll, then surely friction leads to wearing?

Your temp using syn. seems very low. In the hot season before starting the bike my temp. will read 100 deg F. When running normal speeds close to 200 F deg. Both HD's run the same.

Also have oil cooler. Read an article in service manual that highly recommended 60w for temps similar to here.

[Gazza]

Ajahn, my mistake. The figures should have read 220 for fossil oil, 210 semi-syn and 200 for full syn.

Sometimes my memory is.....errm........

[Bung]

I switched to FS at the 10k service on my Vigo. Using toyota oil of course as it's still under warranty. I also read that engines should be run in on mineral before switching but these new engines don't need a lot of running in like older ones. I like it as I store my car for 2 months at a time and it only gets started every two weeks to charge the battery.

As said before it is not so important as changing it regularly. Diesels produce sulfur that gets into the oil and will harm your engine. This is the main reason why diesels need their oil changed more frequently. That is why you will hear a lot of moaning when the government wanted to raise the sulphur content of diesel. Regular oil is cheap protection for Thai climate, change it every 5000k's. I use a Shell semi syn (silver bottle)

Any thoughts on Toyotas 10k service intervals for diesels? Seems a long time to me...

FS is better for turbos as you can have problems with switching off the engine and losing oil pressure with it still spooled up. That is why you see turbo timers on some cars but I never switch it off right after highway speeds. Better to drive slowly for a couple of minutes before planning to switch it off. They have variable nozzle turbos so they don't spool up so much at lower speeds (I think!)

Service stations here let you keep your engines on so you don't have to wait before switching off and filling up which is nice but I don't know how safe that is, safer for diesels in this regard.

I read a lot of info about FS on a bmw bike site which people were complaining about FS causing their clutches to slip (wet clutch bikes) but it was the addittives in it causing the problems.

Check this out. http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/OILFAQ.htm#What%2...hould%20I%20use

Can of worms indeed!

[cheshiremusicman]

I switched to FS at the 10k service on my Vigo. Using toyota oil of course as it's still under warranty. I also read that engines should be run in on mineral before switching but these new engines don't need a lot of running in like older ones. I like it as I store my car for 2 months at a time and it only gets started every two weeks to charge the battery.

I remember years ago reading a article about a test that had been conducted in Hungary on the local taxis. One group had the oil and filters changed regularly according to the manufacturers spec and the other group only had the 'oil filter' changed every 5,000 miles and the oil in the sump just 'topped - up'. At the end, after some 100,00 miles of 'average' taxi mileage they examined the engines and found that the engines with the least wear were the ones that had only had the filters changed. Seem to remember that the explanation given was " the oil molecules had stabilised with wear".

Certainly, it pays to change the oil filter regularly and use the best one that you can lay your hands on and as previously mentioned, I certainly think that the oil companies want us to beleive that we should change the oil more regularly than is necessary,particularly with the very high quality of lubrication and long life that modern oils now have - not to mention the synthetic oils. I will put FS in my 'Fortuner' when it comes to the 10,000km service, or I might even take it in and have it done when I've clocked up 5,000km as I intend to keep the vehicle for years to come - hopefully!

[Gary A]

I got a surprise from the Ford dealer a few months ago. I bought a new Ford Focus and took it in at 5,000 kilometers to have it serviced. The put it on the rack and checked everything but didn't change the oil. No charge. They told me to bring it back at 10,000 kilometers and they would change the oil.

As far as the brand of oil, if the manufacturer is happy to guarantee the engine with their standard brand, that's good enough for me.

[Hog Head]

Dino oil is acceptable for the average user who changes his oil all the time, and has a water cooled engine, however the disadvantages are well documented in the scientific literature. Fully synthetic oils, while more expensive, simply have better qualities that one is looking for in an oil.

Air cooled engines like Bugs or bikes are a different story and given that dino irreperably breaks down at 200F is a good reason not to use it.

Yes it is more expensive, however like the ad in the States used to say, "pay me now or pay me later".

Don't get me started on special bike oil, as it is mostly marketing fluff.

HD Screaming Eagle is made by Pennsoil and besides being overpriced, is not as good as Mobil 1 Delvac.

I have had no problems with the clutch in a HD, however others have reported slippage in other makes due to the higher moly content in Mobil 1.

I this keeps you up at night, run dyno in the primary as it is not such a critical application.

Run synthetic in all gearboxes and rear ends.

Some older LSD's may require an additative, but you are not likely to run into these here.

I have not been able to find synthetic auto transmission oil in CM. Heat kills autos and synthetic oil cannot be beat in this application.

I run Mobil 1 Delvac in everything I own, right down to the lawnmower and the maids scooter, and have done so for years. Yes this is rated as a "diesel" oil, but take a look at the following and make up your own mind:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

I understand that the Thai marketing gurus have decided to call this "turbo pickup diesel" but the stuff in the bottle is the same.

The question of breaking in on dino and changing to synthetic later has been debated ad-infitinum. Several cars and bikes come from the factory with fully synthetic in the sump. All the same my experience with building more than a few bike and car engines has been to use dino, change it, more dino, and switch to synthetic once the rings have seated.

YMMV

At least as important as the oil is the filter. The quality of filters I see here in bike shops are shocking. Would you run a crappy Chinese filter in your bike - apparently so as most shops have nothing else. Do not be fooled by the name, as brand or OEM names are still not up to par. I personally import my own Purloator PL series filters.

See for more info:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html#OilFilters

I run an oil-bypass filter set up on a marine diesel(s) in my boat, in combination with Mobil 1 Delvac. Perhaps the ultimate filter set up but not seen on anything other than specialised equipment.

If you are planning to keep the engine for a long time then do not scrimp on oil or filters. If not then WGAF.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

I run HD Screaming Eagle oil and long orignal oil filter

the car runs on synthetic oil, dont know what the name is, Toyota take care of that.

i did run Mobil 1 before, and i would do it again, but not sure about the diesel type, maybe maybe not.

I think that if people pay 1mill or more for a bike or car they can afford a good motor oil, they should anyway.

[Jimmyd]

Great thread.

However, I've read through the whole thing and haven't seen many recommendations for filters or oil *in Thailand.*

In http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil_myths.shtml they recommend Amsoil filters and oil, but I've never seen them in Thailand. Does anyone know if they are available? If not, what is the best deal in terms of price/performance for filters especially, but also oil?

I've got a 12 year old Toyota hilux and a similarly aged Nissan Sentra--both old clunkers, but they run fine so far--knock on wood.

[pattyboy]

Let me throw a real twist into this discussion. Years ago, I bought one of those little Mazda Familia pickup trucks second hand from a farang who was the original owner. It seems that he was very conscientious about maintaining the vehicle. But when I was taking possession, he reached behind the seat and pulled out a bottle of Veloil 4-stroke motorcycle oil and told me that is what he had always used in the truck. I figured he was joking and pushed him on the matter. However, he was serious. Not wanting to shake up that little 1400 cc engine by using a different type of oil, I continued to do the same. Well, he wasn't joking. I still have the vehicle (as a second "rough work" truck) and have always used Veloil 4-stroke motorcycle oil in it. I've put around 70,000 kms on it and it still runs very well - no smoke or loss of power over the many years I've owned it. Perhaps the fact that those little Familia engines aren't much bigger than a motorcycle's, it worked out.

[mikethevigoman]

Mobil 1 full synthetic,.motul 3000 ,they dont come cheap, but the best never does, may be overkill in a dmax/vigo etc,

Edited August 24, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[mikethevigoman]

Thanks for the suggestions. Lots of good information, and opinions. Any vigo owners out there. What do you use for in your truck?

Peace

A branded semi synthetic works well in the vigo, more important is the air filter to keep your eye on. i check mine every 2000 miles and its filthy, that will affect performace if clogged too,.

[mikethevigoman]

I switched to FS at the 10k service on my Vigo. Using toyota oil of course as it's still under warranty. I also read that engines should be run in on mineral before switching but these new engines don't need a lot of running in like older ones. I like it as I store my car for 2 months at a time and it only gets started every two weeks to charge the battery.

As said before it is not so important as changing it regularly. Diesels produce sulfur that gets into the oil and will harm your engine. This is the main reason why diesels need their oil changed more frequently. That is why you will hear a lot of moaning when the government wanted to raise the sulphur content of diesel. Regular oil is cheap protection for Thai climate, change it every 5000k's. I use a Shell semi syn (silver bottle)

Any thoughts on Toyotas 10k service intervals for diesels? Seems a long time to me...

FS is better for turbos as you can have problems with switching off the engine and losing oil pressure with it still spooled up. That is why you see turbo timers on some cars but I never switch it off right after highway speeds. Better to drive slowly for a couple of minutes before planning to switch it off. They have variable nozzle turbos so they don't spool up so much at lower speeds (I think!)

Service stations here let you keep your engines on so you don't have to wait before switching off and filling up which is nice but I don't know how safe that is, safer for diesels in this regard.

I read a lot of info about FS on a bmw bike site which people were complaining about FS causing their clutches to slip (wet clutch bikes) but it was the addittives in it causing the problems.

Check this out. http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/OILFAQ.htm#What%2...hould%20I%20use

Can of worms indeed!

10 Thousnd mile intervals are fine for servicing, however an oil change at 5k would be good, and check the air filter every 2-3k, i do, and mine is always dirty and will affect power if clogged,.,