England'S Official 2012 Euro Discussion Thread

[Abrak]

Of course, stats don't tell the whole story, but I found it quite interesting.

Regarding Portugal, for all their shots (both on and off target) how many more goals did they score than England?

Actually that's my point. Portugal is not the anomaly. England are.

You see the conversion ratio for 'shots on goal' in the premiership is 28%. So with 17 shots on target you would expect 'on average' 5 goals which is what Portugal scored. Now England scored 5 goals with 10 shots on target - a conversion ratio of 50%. Very good - exceptionally good. But they are very unlikely to score so many goals with so few shots on target again.

Conversely say France have had 21 shots on target and scored just 3 goals. So you might it expect things to improve. However if they continue to shoot from outside the area it is doubtful as its not a great strategy.

[LucidLucifer]

Of course, stats don't tell the whole story, but I found it quite interesting.

Regarding Portugal, for all their shots (both on and off target) how many more goals did they score than England?

Actually that's my point. Portugal is not the anomaly. England are.

You see the conversion ratio for 'shots on goal' in the premiership is 28%. So with 17 shots on target you would expect 'on average' 5 goals which is what Portugal scored. Now England scored 5 goals with 10 shots on target - a conversion ratio of 50%. Very good - exceptionally good. But they are very unlikely to score so many goals with so few shots on target again.

Conversely say France have had 21 shots on target and scored just 3 goals. So you might it expect things to improve. However if they continue to shoot from outside the area it is doubtful as its not a great strategy.

Very comprehensive stats, but i'll need to see a spreadsheet and powerpoint presentation .......

[skybluestu]

Italy>Germany>Spain. now that is the route to England winning it, should we just pack our bags and go home now?

When Woy took Fulham to the Europa Cup final they beat a Ukrainian team in Donetsk then an Italian team in the QF and a German team in the SF before losing to a Spanish team in the final. Just saying!

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[mommysboy]

_{Italy>Germany>Spain. now that is the route to England winning it, should we just pack our bags and go home now?}

_{When Woy took Fulham to the Europa Cup final they beat a Ukrainian team in Donetsk then an Italian team in the QF and a German team in the SF before losing to a Spanish team in the final. Just saying!}

_{Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App}

_Interesting!

_{My question is simple: why can't we retain possession even against teams generally reckoned to be less talented?}

_{Sorry about type size, don't know what's up!}

[nev]

_{Italy>Germany>Spain. now that is the route to England winning it, should we just pack our bags and go home now?}

_{When Woy took Fulham to the Europa Cup final they beat a Ukrainian team in Donetsk then an Italian team in the QF and a German team in the SF before losing to a Spanish team in the final. Just saying!}

_{Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App}

_Interesting!

_{My question is simple: why can't we retain possession even against teams generally reckoned to be less talented?}

_{Sorry about type size, don't know what's up!}

Maybe because players that are able to retain possession have not been picked or are injured, Carrick Wilshire Cleverley Lampard an ageing Scholes all would walk in Englands current midfield and i am sure there are others that i have missed, funny that i select 3 man utd players so maybe called biased but man utd have not been at the top of the league and in 3 European finals by not being able to retain possession.

[rixalex]

_{Italy>Germany>Spain. now that is the route to England winning it, should we just pack our bags and go home now?}

_{When Woy took Fulham to the Europa Cup final they beat a Ukrainian team in Donetsk then an Italian team in the QF and a German team in the SF before losing to a Spanish team in the final. Just saying!}

_{Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App}

_Interesting!

_{My question is simple: why can't we retain possession even against teams generally reckoned to be less talented?}

_{Sorry about type size, don't know what's up!}

It's that we are so good that we don't need the ball.

[StevieH]

Maybe because players that are able to retain possession have not been picked or are injured, Carrick Wilshire Cleverley Lampard an ageing Scholes all would walk in Englands current midfield and i am sure there are others that i have missed, funny that i select 3 man utd players so maybe called biased but man utd have not been at the top of the league and in 3 European finals by not being able to retain possession.

not true at all. or funny really. ferguson's teams have never been noted for their ball retention but for their counter-attacking and rapid movement of the ball at pace. i wonder what some football fans see at times.

wilshere is the only one of the above who would particularly add anything to this current england midfield. scholes would get sent off, cleverly is average. carrick's not bad but not as good a spoiler as parker or as good a passer as gerrard.

[carmine]

Maybe because players that are able to retain possession have not been picked or are injured, Carrick Wilshire Cleverley Lampard an ageing Scholes all would walk in Englands current midfield and i am sure there are others that i have missed, funny that i select 3 man utd players so maybe called biased but man utd have not been at the top of the league and in 3 European finals by not being able to retain possession.

not true at all. or funny really. ferguson's teams have never been noted for their ball retention but for their counter-attacking and rapid movement of the ball at pace. i wonder what some football fans see at times.

wilshere is the only one of the above who would particularly add anything to this current england midfield. scholes would get sent off, cleverly is average. carrick's not bad but not as good a spoiler as parker or as good a passer as gerrard.

Agree with this but i was rather surprised that Carrick didn't go baring in mind he has a iffy achilles. Not sure that Cleverly is average but certainly not ready.

[oldgit]

Maybe because players that are able to retain possession have not been picked or are injured, Carrick Wilshire Cleverley Lampard an ageing Scholes all would walk in Englands current midfield and i am sure there are others that i have missed, funny that i select 3 man utd players so maybe called biased but man utd have not been at the top of the league and in 3 European finals by not being able to retain possession.

not true at all. or funny really. ferguson's teams have never been noted for their ball retention but for their counter-attacking and rapid movement of the ball at pace. i wonder what some football fans see at times.

wilshere is the only one of the above who would particularly add anything to this current england midfield. scholes would get sent off, cleverly is average. carrick's not bad but not as good a spoiler as parker or as good a passer as gerrard.

Agree with this but i was rather surprised that Carrick didn't go baring in mind he has a iffy achilles. Not sure that Cleverly is average but certainly not ready.

Cleverley is nearly 23 years old.If he was a defender,you could give him some time but,as a midfielder,if he isn't ready now,he never will be.

[oldgit]

anyone know what odds balotelli is to get sent off against england?

Betfair have him at 24-5 to get sent off in ANY match in the Euro games.I would imagine no one would be betting on an individual match because he would be bigger odds, could go bent, get sent off on purpose and make a right killing.

[evadgib]

anyone know what odds balotelli is to get sent off against england?

Tommy Steele (Hodgeson) will surely offer a small pledge

[rixalex]

Maybe because players that are able to retain possession have not been picked or are injured, Carrick Wilshire Cleverley Lampard an ageing Scholes all would walk in Englands current midfield and i am sure there are others that i have missed, funny that i select 3 man utd players so maybe called biased but man utd have not been at the top of the league and in 3 European finals by not being able to retain possession.

not true at all. or funny really. ferguson's teams have never been noted for their ball retention but for their counter-attacking and rapid movement of the ball at pace. i wonder what some football fans see at times.

wilshere is the only one of the above who would particularly add anything to this current england midfield. scholes would get sent off, cleverly is average. carrick's not bad but not as good a spoiler as parker or as good a passer as gerrard.

Agree with this but i was rather surprised that Carrick didn't go baring in mind he has a iffy achilles. Not sure that Cleverly is average but certainly not ready.

Cleverley is nearly 23 years old.If he was a defender,you could give him some time but,as a midfielder,if he isn't ready now,he never will be.

He isn't ready now but not because of his age, but because he spent most of last season not playing. Players should be picked on form. Cleverly's form was fantastic at the start of the season, but then he didn't play for ages. So it was right that he wasn't picked. As for Stevie's comment about him being average, no he isn't, not when he is match fit and in form.

[Abrak]

I think that those looking in the central midfield as to why we dont retain possession are probably looking in the wrong place. Parker and Gerrard have 89% and 87% pass completion stat so far this tournament.

http://www.eplindex.com/15792/england-player-stats-accumulated-euro-2012-opta-stats.html

[mommysboy]

I think that those looking in the central midfield as to why we dont retain possession are probably looking in the wrong place. Parker and Gerrard have 89% and 87% pass completion stat so far this tournament.

http://www.eplindex.com/15792/england-player-stats-accumulated-euro-2012-opta-stats.html

I just wonder is there something wrong with the tactics/formation? that puts incredible pressure on the other 2 midfielders. After all Young's primary role is really is to score goals or lay off to someone else, he can't do that deep in his own half surrounded by 3 opposing players.

Or is it just simple lack of collective ability ?.

But then sometimes we have strung 20 or more passes together.

Very puzzling, but comes up time and time again on the international stage.

[mommysboy]

What about if Milner was moved back to defensive midfield? thus allowing the very effective Gerrard to roam forward a bit more. And asking Rooney to also cover the right as he likes to drop deeper anyway.

[mommysboy]

anyone know what odds balotelli is to get sent off against england?

Betfair have him at 24-5 to get sent off in ANY match in the Euro games.I would imagine no one would be betting on an individual match because he would be bigger odds, could go bent, get sent off on purpose and make a right killing.

An interesting sidebet! who walks first Rooney or Balotelli?

[smokie36]

Defensive chatter lads? Its Italy remember....you will get lots of own half possession...be unable to break them down then they will hit you with the sucker punch....

[rixalex]

What about if Milner was moved back to defensive midfield? thus allowing the very effective Gerrard to roam forward a bit more. And asking Rooney to also cover the right as he likes to drop deeper anyway.

I think you tinker with the job that Gerrard has been doing at your peril. One player and one part of our tactics that i would say has proved itself well beyond doubt. That part ain't broke, don't fix it.

[rijit]

Lets just hope it's neither but if it does fingers 'xd it's Balotelii.

Early in the season, 4 me it looked that Cleverly was going to be the prem's stand out ne'b'y ish midfielder, personally think that his emergence had a bearing on Scholes earlier decision 2 retire, A real shame for us clev's got injured When a player, not nearing general retirement, asks not to be considered , 4 me leaves a bad taste, no difference with Carrick, as for the rest of the prev mentioned midfielders , what they would have given us was strength in depth, We lose a midfielder to injury now are weaker for sure. And got to say what an inspirational leader Stephen Gerrard is, seems the captaincy has really pushed his England game on.

Edited June 23, 2012 by rijit

[rijit]

What about if Milner was moved back to defensive midfield? thus allowing the very effective Gerrard to roam forward a bit more. And asking Rooney to also cover the right as he likes to drop deeper anyway.

I think you tinker with the job that Gerrard has been doing at your peril. One player and one part of our tactics that i would say has proved itself well beyond doubt. That part ain't broke, don't fix it.

100% agree, and i know he's got some stick, as i know as an international player he is limited , but Milners defensive covering and overall work rate has been tremendous.

[rijit]

What about if Milner was moved back to defensive midfield? thus allowing the very effective Gerrard to roam forward a bit more. And asking Rooney to also cover the right as he likes to drop deeper anyway.

Sori i missed you comment b4 i put the prev post up.TBH, I thought his work rate and his defensive capabilities were why he was in the team in the first place, its certainly not for his pace, his crossing or his finishing.

Edited June 23, 2012 by rijit

[carmine]

What about if Milner was moved back to defensive midfield? thus allowing the very effective Gerrard to roam forward a bit more. And asking Rooney to also cover the right as he likes to drop deeper anyway.

I think you tinker with the job that Gerrard has been doing at your peril. One player and one part of our tactics that i would say has proved itself well beyond doubt. That part ain't broke, don't fix it.

100% agree, and i know he's got some stick, as i know as an international player he is limited , but Milners defensive covering and overall work rate has been tremendous.

Its Gerrard that been superb rijit. Milner has been something between piss poor and not very good at all. Aside of being tremendous he's been a monument to abject mediocrity

[smokie36]

What about if Milner was moved back to defensive midfield? thus allowing the very effective Gerrard to roam forward a bit more. And asking Rooney to also cover the right as he likes to drop deeper anyway.

I think you tinker with the job that Gerrard has been doing at your peril. One player and one part of our tactics that i would say has proved itself well beyond doubt. That part ain't broke, don't fix it.

100% agree, and i know he's got some stick, as i know as an international player he is limited , but Milners defensive covering and overall work rate has been tremendous.

Its Gerrard that been superb rijit. Milner has been something between piss poor and not very good at all. Aside of being tremendous he's been a monument to abject mediocrity

Even i will agree with that. Gerrard is one of the stand out players of the tournament so far.

Edit: In fact the last time I saw him playing so well, the scousers won the CL....I don't want to be having any bad dreams this month...God no....please....no....

Edited June 23, 2012 by smokie36

[rijit]

Lets just hope it's neither but if it does fingers 'xd it's Balotelii.

. And got to say what an inspirational leader Stephen Gerrard is, seems the captaincy has really pushed his England game on.

?????

Edited June 23, 2012 by rijit

[rijit]

' I thought his work rate and his defensive capabilities were why he was in the team in the first place, its certainly not for his pace, his crossing or his finishing.' 'as i know as an international player he is limited'

Yep judging from what i wrote b4 seems i agree!!!! with you but i was trying to be nice and mention the positives as well, as seemingly we're not going to be rid of him.

Edited June 23, 2012 by rijit

[sharecropper]

Some great stats analysis on here, and some good posts.

[JacknDanny]

What about if Milner was moved back to defensive midfield? thus allowing the very effective Gerrard to roam forward a bit more. And asking Rooney to also cover the right as he likes to drop deeper anyway.

I think you tinker with the job that Gerrard has been doing at your peril. One player and one part of our tactics that i would say has proved itself well beyond doubt. That part ain't broke, don't fix it.

100% agree, and i know he's got some stick, as i know as an international player he is limited , but Milners defensive covering and overall work rate has been tremendous.

Its Gerrard that been superb rijit. Milner has been something between piss poor and not very good at all. Aside of being tremendous he's been a monument to abject mediocrity

I have no idea what Milners role in the team is??

He is certainly not playing as he does at City. Even though he is somewhat limited, he does a decent job at City.

All I see him do for England is stand on the wing with his finger up his rs!!

Personally I would play Walcott or Ox Chamberlain against Italy.

Agree that Gerard is having a magnificent tournament

[rixalex]

I have no idea what Milners role in the team is??

He is certainly not playing as he does at City. Even though he is somewhat limited, he does a decent job at City.

All I see him do for England is stand on the wing with his finger up his rs!!

Personally I would play Walcott or Ox Chamberlain against Italy.

Agree that Gerard is having a magnificent tournament

Milner certainly does seem to have played better for City than he is now for England, although perhaps at City his play has been flattered somewhat by the players around him?

[smokie36]

Lets just hope it's neither but if it does fingers 'xd it's Balotelii.

. And got to say what an inspirational leader Stephen Gerrard is, seems the captaincy has really pushed his England game on.

?????

I feel your pain leetle Englander....

Actually no....I don't !

[JacknDanny]

I have no idea what Milners role in the team is??

He is certainly not playing as he does at City. Even though he is somewhat limited, he does a decent job at City.

All I see him do for England is stand on the wing with his finger up his rs!!

Personally I would play Walcott or Ox Chamberlain against Italy.

Agree that Gerard is having a magnificent tournament

Milner certainly does seem to have played better for City than he is now for England, although perhaps at City his play has been flattered somewhat by the players around him?

Good point.

It just seems to me that he has not been given a job to do!!

But aside from Hart, Gerard and Rooney, England are a team of mediocrity.

I still think they will squeeze past Italy, but will be no match for Germany