Justice Ministry To Pay Bt26 Million Bail For 13 Red Shirts

[pipo1000]

I think 99% of the inmates are there for a crime they didn't commit, in their opinion. Do you suggest they all get bail?

Being convicted of a crime is different that being charged with a crime. Being charged with a crime means that you are still theoretically innocent, but bail will be set (if it's given at all) based on the likelihood of you having committed the crime based on the current evidence, and the likelihood of you skipping bail.

So and on which of the grounds that you explained so correctly, do you think that bail would be considered in this case.

I'm sure it cant be the lack of clear evidence, neither can it be the unlikelyhood of skipping bail given the known history hereabout of other accused red shirt leaders.

"So and on which of the grounds ... do you think that bail would be considered in this case."

None whatsoever.

Thanks for the confirmation, I almost thought you had floundered into the wrong path.

[lannarebirth]

It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice.

In my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal.

Sorry to say it, but a quick search will tell you otherwise.

Gimme a link.

[Thai at Heart]

Burn down city hall, decades in jail. I notice they postponed the decision on the "na", who took out the mini van.

All so screwed up, no one on TV can sort it out. Posh money versus the rest. Let's watch the judgements.

[rubl]

It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice.

In my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal.

Sorry to say it, but a quick search will tell you otherwise.

A quick search only gets me cases concerning pre-trial bail, nothing post-trial/conviction.

BTW I found this while searching. Need some formatting to make it readable, but ...

"INVESTIGATIVE CUSTODY IN U.S., ENGLAND & FRANCE."

http://ra-essaytown.com/paper/26266/essaytown/investigative_custody_in_u.s.,_england__france.html

[Thai at Heart]

It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice.

In my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal.

Sorry to say it, but a quick search will tell you otherwise.

A quick search only gets me cases concerning pre-trial bail, nothing post-trial/conviction.

BTW I found this while searching. Need some formatting to make it readable, but ...

"INVESTIGATIVE CUSTODY IN U.S., ENGLAND & FRANCE."

http://ra-essaytown.com/paper/26266/essaytown/investigative_custody_in_u.s.,_england__france.html

Can't find any links showing that release under appeal after conviction is common

[Roadman]

basically this means the government overrules the court and releases them.

that bail thing is nonsense take out the money from the left pocket and put it in the right pocket.

and when they get sentenced to jail terms they get amnesty. Another step in the direction of dictatorship.

Agree totally.

If you are Thaksin, Pheu Thai, Red or any other support group of this non democratic lot governing, you are above the law. Where the law does get in the way then it will be dealt to in which ever way this lot can screw it for their benefit.

No suprise as this course for dictatorship was set via populist lawlessness right back in 1994 when "Madame came to us and said she wanted to borrow our names".

Edited June 22, 2012 by Roadman

[Reasonableman]

Did find that bail pending appeal in cases of a convicted felon (serious crime, long jail sentence) was rare, and virtually non-existent if there was any flight risk.

[espinoza]

This is the difference between developed countries and the third world.

[espinoza]

It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice.

In my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal.

Sorry to say it, but a quick search will tell you otherwise.

Gimme a link.

I`m from Norway, and in Norway nobody can be released by bail. I think thats a better system than undeveloped systems that involves money.

[rubl]

Did find that bail pending appeal in cases of a convicted felon (serious crime, long jail sentence) was rare, and virtually non-existent if there was any flight risk.

Getting a bit off topic, but did you find on specific countries and if so which?

[tlansford]

It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice.

In my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal.

Sorry to say it, but a quick search will tell you otherwise.

Gimme a link.

www.google.com

[rubl]

In my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal.

Sorry to say it, but a quick search will tell you otherwise.

Gimme a link.

www.google.com

A bit tongue-in-cheek there, Tom.

Still, 'a quick search' doesn't tell me otherwise. Au contraire, mon cher

[tlansford]

- deleted -

Sorry to say it, but a quick search will tell you otherwise.

Gimme a link.

www.google.com

A bit tongue-in-cheek there, Tom.

Still, 'a quick search' doesn't tell me otherwise. Au contraire, mon cher

"usa bail pending appeal" will give reasonable results indicating that :

"in my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal."

is not a true statement.

While it is possible that in the USA the convicted individual remain in prison pending appeal, it is also possible to be released on bail pending appeal.

[hellodolly]

How astonishing that the Justice Minister is using tax payers money to place these 13 convicted arsonists on bail. They have already been sentenced to 20 years each. I guarantee without fail they will all do a runner. They have been found guilty, it is not as if they are still awaiting trial. This place never ceases to amaze me. Never a dull day in Thailand thanks to the politicians.

Will the Justice Ministry now pay the bail for any other criminal that needs it, as it has now set precedent?

There must be elections coming up in the area these 13 are from.

Off topic but my uncle is dying and I find myself a little short on cash. Do you suppose the government could spot me a first class round trip ticket.

[hellodolly]

Is this like a paper IOU. how can the government lose money to itself if they don't pitch for court? Bizarre?

Going to be interesting when it comes time for Jatuporn to go to jail.

Edited June 22, 2012 by hellodolly

[letitbe]

<deleted> this gets sillier day by day why not just suspend all laws and hand the country to Taksin. Were even more determined now to sell rest of our assets here except the house and maybe the rice paddies. Weve mad a lot here with our investments over last 18 or so years and lived through several coups and 1997 crash with no real worries but for first time we are now seriously concerned and think risk of either a civil war or taksin dictatorship likely. We only hope army will step in soon and stop this madness again but this time totally destroy the reds and if they can Taksin and all his henchmen. Then and only then will we start bringing money back in from Singapore and Hong Kong.

We disposed of another 10 % of our assets here in the last month at least 20% below normal market value just to get more out quickly. In last 18 months weve now liquidated around 70% of our assets here and plan to liquidate rest over next year or so. We wont leave unless it gets really bad and here theirs a start to pol pot reeducation type camps but that has already started with red villages and districts. We live in a total red shirt area and no one would dare say anything but as yet in our area their are not red flags on every house. We visited a friend of my wifes not far from where we live and in that area every house had a red flag and we even had to go through a road block of reds. My wifes friend is scared silly since she hates the reds but feels she cant leave since the families only assets are farm and house in that area. She said shed sell if she could but no one wants to pay any proper price and she knows several also desperate to get out.

Very sad and if it continues and we suddenly find ourselves in a total red shirt zone well have to escape initially to a very small rough house we have near Cha am and just hope it gets better.

Why is this allowed to continue but then I suppose Hitler did it step by step until the people's eyes opened and then to late he had complete control.

[rubl]

A bit tongue-in-cheek there, Tom.

Still, 'a quick search' doesn't tell me otherwise. Au contraire, mon cher

"usa bail pending appeal" will give reasonable results indicating that :

"in my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal."

is not a true statement.

While it is possible that in the USA the convicted individual remain in prison pending appeal, it is also possible to be released on bail pending appeal.

A few posts before in this conversation you had

"It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice"

- It seems in most countries the government will assist accused financially and/or with lawyers to defend their rights.

- at least (or only?) in the USA convicted criminals can ask for bail pending their appeal on conviction.

- in the USA bail for criminals is considered, taking very strictly into account, the crime convicted of, the risk of jumping bail, the risk of repeat of offence, the risk to the commuity, etc., etc. Read this for instance

http://www.ndcalfpd....ding Appeal.htm

http://www.justice.g.../f3700/3735.htm

Going back a bit further in time in this thread you had

"It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail.

This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people.

It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail.

Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism."

- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'

To conclude, assistance is common, bail granting especially to convicted criminals is not.

Edited June 22, 2012 by rubl

[tlansford]

A bit tongue-in-cheek there, Tom.

Still, 'a quick search' doesn't tell me otherwise. Au contraire, mon cher

"usa bail pending appeal" will give reasonable results indicating that :

"in my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal."

is not a true statement.

While it is possible that in the USA the convicted individual remain in prison pending appeal, it is also possible to be released on bail pending appeal.

A few posts before in this conversation you had

"It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice"

- It seems in most countries the government will assist accused financially and/or with lawyers to defend their rights.

- at least (or only?) in the USA convicted criminals can ask for bail pending their appeal on conviction.

- in the USA bail for criminals is considered, taking very strictly into account, the crime convicted of, the risk of jumping bail, the risk of repeat of offence, the risk to the commuity, etc., etc. Read this for instance

http://www.ndcalfpd....ding Appeal.htm

http://www.justice.g.../f3700/3735.htm

Going back a bit further in time in this thread you had

"It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail.

This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people.

It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail.

Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism."

- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'

To conclude, assistance is common, bail granting especially to convicted criminals is not.

"- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'"

WADR, Rubl, I am not confused. In fact, compared to the muddle posted in the majority of this thread, I am a beacon of light for the confused.

Enjoy ...

[rubl]

A few posts before in this conversation you had

"It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice"

- It seems in most countries the government will assist accused financially and/or with lawyers to defend their rights.

- at least (or only?) in the USA convicted criminals can ask for bail pending their appeal on conviction.

- in the USA bail for criminals is considered, taking very strictly into account, the crime convicted of, the risk of jumping bail, the risk of repeat of offence, the risk to the commuity, etc., etc. Read this for instance

http://www.ndcalfpd....ding Appeal.htm

http://www.justice.g.../f3700/3735.htm

Going back a bit further in time in this thread you had

"It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail.

This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people.

It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail.

Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism."

- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'

To conclude, assistance is common, bail granting especially to convicted criminals is not.

"- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'"

WADR, Rubl, I am not confused. In fact, compared to the muddle posted in the majority of this thread, I am a beacon of light for the confused.

Enjoy ...

Ehr, ehr, yes. esteemed members, fools and idiots on both side of the fence. Certified as well. True, true.

To answer your next question, I've sharpened my quill, but run out of vellum. I also need to find (red) sealing wax. Be patient my boy, I'll be certified myself soon

[Moruya]

How about they carve off anything north of Korat and declare it as the semi autonomous region of Northern Thailand.

It can be responsible for collecting its own taxes and budgets and can hail Kaiser Thaksin as its leader

I don't know where you live but I think some of us north of Korat would disagree with your idea.

I bet if it went to the vote not too many would disagree!

[Moruya]

It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail.

This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people.

It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail.

Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism.

Jesus wept

[Moruya]

A bit tongue-in-cheek there, Tom.

Still, 'a quick search' doesn't tell me otherwise. Au contraire, mon cher

"usa bail pending appeal" will give reasonable results indicating that :

"in my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal."

is not a true statement.

While it is possible that in the USA the convicted individual remain in prison pending appeal, it is also possible to be released on bail pending appeal.

A few posts before in this conversation you had

"It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice"

- It seems in most countries the government will assist accused financially and/or with lawyers to defend their rights.

- at least (or only?) in the USA convicted criminals can ask for bail pending their appeal on conviction.

- in the USA bail for criminals is considered, taking very strictly into account, the crime convicted of, the risk of jumping bail, the risk of repeat of offence, the risk to the commuity, etc., etc. Read this for instance

http://www.ndcalfpd....ding Appeal.htm

http://www.justice.g.../f3700/3735.htm

Going back a bit further in time in this thread you had

"It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail.

This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people.

It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail.

Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism."

- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'

To conclude, assistance is common, bail granting especially to convicted criminals is not.

"- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'"

WADR, Rubl, I am not confused. In fact, compared to the muddle posted in the majority of this thread, I am a beacon of light for the confused.

Enjoy ...

Insanity follows closely on the heels of those who self applaud

[sjjmmi]

Only reds and yellows can solve the problem . . . izit

[Roadman]

I`m from Norway, and in Norway nobody can be released by bail. I think thats a better system than undeveloped systems that involves money.

When you look in the worlds top nations for moralistic achievement you see near the top of the many polls that test many fields of your values, your country of Norway and others of the Scandanavians also rank highly. Among the younger nations that also share that presitige are my own NZ, our actually good bugga neighbor the Aussies and the Canadiens. In any of those countries in spite of comment above that you should not get a response, point a gun at the police or citizens or any of these countries, after also inciting to burn down the capital, let along also attack its Army, you are in negotiation for your life. Start killing police, citizens, or the Army then you are dead meat to either the police, a citizen defending others, or the final call the Army at the request of the Police or the Government.

Thailand is moralistically corrupt.

[smedly]

shocking simply shocking

If this action isn't breaking the Law - charter or constitution then there is a drastic need for some reforms - hmmmmmmm

[gemini81]

A bit tongue-in-cheek there, Tom.

Still, 'a quick search' doesn't tell me otherwise. Au contraire, mon cher

"usa bail pending appeal" will give reasonable results indicating that :

"in my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal."

is not a true statement.

While it is possible that in the USA the convicted individual remain in prison pending appeal, it is also possible to be released on bail pending appeal.

A few posts before in this conversation you had

"It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal.

Go back and check your country's laws again about bail...

For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice"

- It seems in most countries the government will assist accused financially and/or with lawyers to defend their rights.

- at least (or only?) in the USA convicted criminals can ask for bail pending their appeal on conviction.

- in the USA bail for criminals is considered, taking very strictly into account, the crime convicted of, the risk of jumping bail, the risk of repeat of offence, the risk to the commuity, etc., etc. Read this for instance

http://www.ndcalfpd....ding Appeal.htm

http://www.justice.g.../f3700/3735.htm

Going back a bit further in time in this thread you had

"It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail.

This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people.

It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail.

Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism."

- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'

To conclude, assistance is common, bail granting especially to convicted criminals is not.

"- it seems you were a bit confused about 'posting bail' and 'assist'"

WADR, Rubl, I am not confused. In fact, compared to the muddle posted in the majority of this thread, I am a beacon of light for the confused.

Enjoy ...

You just got owned...fess up.

[Lite Beer]

A post containing profanities has been deleted along with the reply to it.

[GentlemanJim]

<deleted> this gets sillier day by day why not just suspend all laws and hand the country to Taksin. Were even more determined now to sell rest of our assets here except the house and maybe the rice paddies. Weve mad a lot here with our investments over last 18 or so years and lived through several coups and 1997 crash with no real worries but for first time we are now seriously concerned and think risk of either a civil war or taksin dictatorship likely. We only hope army will step in soon and stop this madness again but this time totally destroy the reds and if they can Taksin and all his henchmen. Then and only then will we start bringing money back in from Singapore and Hong Kong.

We disposed of another 10 % of our assets here in the last month at least 20% below normal market value just to get more out quickly. In last 18 months weve now liquidated around 70% of our assets here and plan to liquidate rest over next year or so. We wont leave unless it gets really bad and here theirs a start to pol pot reeducation type camps but that has already started with red villages and districts. We live in a total red shirt area and no one would dare say anything but as yet in our area their are not red flags on every house. We visited a friend of my wifes not far from where we live and in that area every house had a red flag and we even had to go through a road block of reds. My wifes friend is scared silly since she hates the reds but feels she cant leave since the families only assets are farm and house in that area. She said shed sell if she could but no one wants to pay any proper price and she knows several also desperate to get out.

Very sad and if it continues and we suddenly find ourselves in a total red shirt zone well have to escape initially to a very small rough house we have near Cha am and just hope it gets better.

Why is this allowed to continue but then I suppose Hitler did it step by step until the people's eyes opened and then to late he had complete control.

Thanks for this post.

This is 'REAL' life around red villages and red zones, from someone that appears to have their head well and truly screwed on. You are a credit to your family letitbe. If you move but want to stay in the country try moving South. All seems peaceful here. I am in the Trang area, nowhere near the 'deep south' and the areas money is in business, ag and rubber rather than tourism (yet!). Good luck with your decisions, if you want to explore down here you are welcome for a stop over and a guided tour.

<Edit>

Edited June 24, 2012 by metisdead
Off topic baiting comments removed.

[h90]

&lt;deleted&gt; this gets sillier day by day why not just suspend all laws and hand the country to Taksin. Were even more determined now to sell rest of our assets here except the house and maybe the rice paddies. Weve mad a lot here with our investments over last 18 or so years and lived through several coups and 1997 crash with no real worries but for first time we are now seriously concerned and think risk of either a civil war or taksin dictatorship likely. We only hope army will step in soon and stop this madness again but this time totally destroy the reds and if they can Taksin and all his henchmen. Then and only then will we start bringing money back in from Singapore and Hong Kong.

We disposed of another 10 % of our assets here in the last month at least 20% below normal market value just to get more out quickly. In last 18 months weve now liquidated around 70% of our assets here and plan to liquidate rest over next year or so. We wont leave unless it gets really bad and here theirs a start to pol pot reeducation type camps but that has already started with red villages and districts. We live in a total red shirt area and no one would dare say anything but as yet in our area their are not red flags on every house. We visited a friend of my wifes not far from where we live and in that area every house had a red flag and we even had to go through a road block of reds. My wifes friend is scared silly since she hates the reds but feels she cant leave since the families only assets are farm and house in that area. She said shed sell if she could but no one wants to pay any proper price and she knows several also desperate to get out.

Very sad and if it continues and we suddenly find ourselves in a total red shirt zone well have to escape initially to a very small rough house we have near Cha am and just hope it gets better.

Why is this allowed to continue but then I suppose Hitler did it step by step until the people's eyes opened and then to late he had complete control.

More or less the same, just we stay in BKK and almost all of our customer are yellow. Fact is medium owners in Bangkok hate the reds. I have no possibility to move out easily and we are in a flood area as well. But I would not compare it with Hitler, more with Stalin and both is wrong because both believed that what they do is the best for the country and weren't corrupt.

[thaicbr]

Chiang mai is along way from issan. Different approach to life. Different approach to red.

if things are ok for you good. BUT do you live or have friends living in red villages? If no then you have no idea what he might be going through.

sent from my Wellcom A90+