Old Expats In Thailand - Possible Hell On Earth?

[NancyL]

I have received two pieces of advice in my lifetime that I have never forgotten, The first was to NOT concern yourself with things you have no control over. That really made me angry at the time and I didn't realize what good advice it was at the time it was given. It took me several years to see the wisdom.

..................

Ah, so true. It seems so many expats get all worked up about things they have no control over (like 90 day reports) and ignore the things they do have control over, like having their financial affairs in order and setting aside funds/getting health insurance to handle the inevitable hospitalization.

[Eff1n2ret]

I have received two pieces of advice in my lifetime that I have never forgotten, The first was to NOT concern yourself with things you have no control over. That really made me angry at the time and I didn't realize what good advice it was at the time it was given. It took me several years to see the wisdom.

..................

Ah, so true. It seems so many expats get all worked up about things they have no control over (like 90 day reports) and ignore the things they do have control over, like having their financial affairs in order and setting aside funds/getting health insurance to handle the inevitable hospitalization.

Your contributions have been most interesting. So, as an expat who never had any serious prospect of getting affordable health insurance and at just short of 68 years has had a few health problems, what would you consider an adequate amount to "set aside"? My overall health isn't bad, and so far I've paid for the treatment/medication I've had out of current income. I do have a fund for medical treatment, but experience a few months ago tells me that non-surgical intensive care in a good private hospital costs 16000 baht per day ( a third of which was medication). So my fund would be wiped out by a month or so in hospital or one major operation.

I've given up worrying about whether I have enough set aside, I don't think you can stipulate a figure, but please feel free to disagree. Hospitalisation isn't "inevitable", very few of us can predict how long we're going to live or how we're going to die, so we make whatever provision we can and hope for the best.

So, to some extent, achieving the necessary healthcare in old age is something over which you may have as little control as 90-day reporting problems

[TommoPhysicist]

I do have a fund for medical treatment, but experience a few months ago tells me that non-surgical intensive care in a good private hospital costs 16000 baht per day ( a third of which was medication). So my fund would be wiped out by a month or so in hospital or one major operation.

The most cost effective thing to do is learn some basic Thai so you are happier using the government hospitals.

16k/day is the sort of charge that the very expensive hospitals, aimed at ripping off rich foreigners make, they aren't necessarily good hospitals.

Doctors in most of the hospitals seem to speak English, it's only the nurses and other staff in GHs that can't.

The government hospitals will charge a foreigner 2-5k/day for intensive care.

I know there are a lot of foreign posters who complain about GHs, but I seriously doubt they have ever used them. There are long queues, but only for Thais using them FOC, if you are paying you don't queue. The treatment is as good as anywhere else in Thailand.

Edited July 7, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[falang07]

Actually, it would be very interesting (at least for me) to hear about experiences expats might have with using these government hospitals for some more serious health problems. I am almost sure that if you are a paying customer with a good health insurance, there will be no queue to wait in, and it would be definitely much cheaper than those 5-star hospitals which might just concentrate too much on the luxury to justify the Hilton-like prices but the actual treatment might be the same, or who knows, even worse.

[marshbags]

I do have a fund for medical treatment, but experience a few months ago tells me that non-surgical intensive care in a good private hospital costs 16000 baht per day ( a third of which was medication). So my fund would be wiped out by a month or so in hospital or one major operation.

The most cost effective thing to do is learn some basic Thai so you are happier using the government hospitals.

16k/day is the sort of charge that the very expensive hospitals, aimed at ripping off rich foreigners make, they aren't necessarily good hospitals.

Doctors in most of the hospitals seem to speak English, it's only the nurses and other staff in GHs that can't.

The government hospitals will charge a foreigner 2-5k/day for intensive care.

I know there are a lot of foreign posters who complain about GHs, but I seriously doubt they have ever used them. There are long queues, but only for Thais using them FOC, if you are paying you don't queue. The treatment is as good as anywhere else in Thailand.

Add to this that most of the specialists cover both the private and government hospitals.

Plus the fact that you will not be paying extortionate demands for any medicines you need.

The service is equal if not better in many cases and definitely more consideration, understanding and empathy is given in relation to costs at the government one.

I know many Thai who swear by them and even though some can afford to go private, prefer the low cost one and what they see as a non orientated money making venture to enrich the privilidged few......Owners ect. ect.

If the treatment required is limited then sure they will pay at the private hospitals

marshbags

P.S.

My Thai is is very limited but if I ever needed to go the government way there is usually someone to translate for you the nurses have to have a proven ability regarding English as this is encouraged and also a requirement while in training but in any case the specialists usually speak and understand it.

Edited July 8, 2012 by marshbags

[krisb]

Isnt this a little bit like saying I would hate to be hit by a truck in the desert with no water?? I mean sure you have a point but its a worst case scenario. Dont get yourself down mate. Save money for a rainy day and be optimistic.

[mikecwm]

Actually, it would be very interesting (at least for me) to hear about experiences expats might have with using these government hospitals for some more serious health problems. I am almost sure that if you are a paying customer with a good health insurance, there will be no queue to wait in, and it would be definitely much cheaper than those 5-star hospitals which might just concentrate too much on the luxury to justify the Hilton-like prices but the actual treatment might be the same, or who knows, even worse.

Please accept my apologies Falang 07. I've just started a new post in the Health Forum with your last posting.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/568284-expats-views-and-experiences-using-local-government-hospitals/

It will probably generate more replies there - and it's something I am very interested in (a medical self insurer to be).

[NancyL]

I know of foreigners who have run up bills over 200,000 for a stay at a government hospital. 300,000 baht isn't uncommon. Yes, ICU is 2000-3000 baht per day, but the drugs can really add up, if you have an infection that isn't responding to older, cheaper antibiotics. I'd suggest maintaining a special fund of at least 300,000 baht for a medical emergency and be prepared to top it off after each hospital stay. At a minimum, get a personal accident policy and pay the extra to cover your own hospitalization with your vehicle insurance policies. Accidents are much more common here than in the western world and accident policies are more affordable than comprehensive insurance policies and available to the oldest people.

I know many foreigners who have used the large government hospital in Chiang Mai. They have to wait in line just like everyone else, even with health insurance. If they have health insurance, they're encouraged to go next door to the private hospital run by the same organization. Less waiting there.

The quality of the medical care at the government hospital appears to be good, according to western doctor friends who have reviewed cases I'm involved with. The doctors speak reasonable English and are the same doctors who practice at the private hospitals around town. The R.N.s are caring and the rest of the staff does a good job of things like moving patients to try to prevent bedsores.

But, aside from the doctors, few staff members speak English. More understand English, if spoken clearly with a standard accent, but no one wants to deal with a foreigner shouting in English. Patients are in wards of 8 or 9 beds close together. No aircon. Maybe one TV per ward, blaring a Thai soap opera. Food is basic Thai and they never seem to vary the menu -- same meals day after day. You have to be in very bad shape before you get help in feeding. Bring your own toilet paper, wash cloth, etc. Get a friend to empty your urine bottle. Personally, it's not type of care I'd like, but it isn't dangerous -- just not very comfortable.

Edited July 8, 2012 by NancyL

[TommoPhysicist]

I know many foreigners who have used the large government hospital in Chiang Mai. They have to wait in line just like everyone else, even with health insurance. If they have health insurance, they're encouraged to go next door to the private hospital run by the same organization. Less waiting there.

Unfortunately this hospital has become overly-conscious of foreigners and their money.

It's just ripping them off. Best to go to a hospital that isn't used to dealing with foreigners, and inflating the prices accordingly.

Edited July 8, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[falang07]

Please accept my apologies Falang 07. I've just started a new post in the Health Forum with your last posting.

http://www.thaivisa....ment-hospitals/

It will probably generate more replies there - and it's something I am very interested in (a medical self insurer to be).

Good idea, thanks!

[OJAS]

I suspect that the majority of posts on this thread can be summed up neatly by that old Thaivisa saying: never invest more in LOS than you are prepared to walk away from.

The OP would also be wise to bear in mind that the immigration goalposts for new retirees will inevitably shift over the next 10 years, and almost certainly not beneficially for us expats either. In particular, the current 800k annual / 65k monthly income requirements have, I understand, remained unchanged for several years now, and therefore appear ripe for significant increases.

[OJAS]

The OP would also be wise to bear in mind that the immigration goalposts for new retirees will inevitably shift over the next 10 years, and almost certainly not beneficially for us expats either. In particular, the current 800k annual / 65k monthly income requirements have, I understand, remained unchanged for several years now, and therefore appear ripe for significant increases.

The age bar might also be raised by the Immigration powers-that-be, meaning that the OP would have to wait rather longer than 10 years for his coveted retirement visa/extension of stay in any event.

[lopburi3]

Actually the age used to be 60 so have been lowered - see no reason that would change. As for income requirement see no reason for a change there either as it increased considerably and the worlds and Thailand incomes have not changed that much in the last decade. The current requirements seem to insure applicants can afford stay.

[lostinisaan]

.......

I made a post here last year I think, where I told the forum readers of a situation I saw in CM Imigration. A very old guy, Im sure 85+ had to be carried into the very crowded room, He looked very frail and confused. Well he got the same treatment as every one else, no one thought it a good plan to see him first, Later Whem my visa was all ready I asked the Imigration officer what would happen when I am too ill, too old to come here. She looked quite shocked and Said, you must come,you must come to get your visa!

There and then I decided that whem I am in that poor old buggers situation, I intend to NOT TO COME! When I dont drive around so much, when I stop to travel, I will just keep out of the way, certainly will not go to the immigration again. The most they can fine you is 20,000 baht, even if you didnt show for 10 years! But to return to the thread, If I could I would pull out of Thailand,Its going to get harder and harder here for us WHITE OLD FOLKS.

See my post #34 much earlier in this thread. It is possible for a third party to handle 90 day reports and retirement visa extensions for someone too ill to come into Immigration. If the person isn't in the hospital and a doctor won't sign a letter that car travel is prohibited, the person could be brought to Immigration and stay in the car (with aircon running) while the third party talks to the Immigration officers. They will come out to the parking lot to look at someone who can't get out of the car.

Also, CM Immigration has a good appointment system for visa extensions, so there's no need to deal with the crowds or wait a long time. Just make the appointment on-line and come in 10 minutes before the appointment. Soon they'll call your name and escort you to the Immigration officer's desk.

Planning to go on Overstay long-term isn't a good plan. You can be stopped by the BIB (or reported to them). If you go into hospital and claim you can't pay your bill, they'll report you to Immigration and they'll come collect you as soon as you can be discharged.

An older guy from Europe is on a 'being sick visa' for I don't know how long already. All his spouse's doing is to show them photos of him laying in bed.

[Judecalling]

I'm a Brit, but currently living in Canada with my Thai wife. If I thought I had to endure Fall, Winter and Spring here, after my retirement in 2 years - bad weather from October to June, and pretty much the same in the UK, I'd be tempted to end it now.

But, I have the prospect of 300 days of sunshine in Petchabun; 12 acres of non floodable land to play with; golf and good restaurants 50km up the road in Petchabun city; enough income to be very comfortable in Thailand, with investments in Canada and pensions from Canada and UK.

Do I worry about it all going tits up in 20 years? Have I ever worried about not knowing the future? No - I live in the moment and give thanks for meeting a wonderful Thai woman who looks after me like a king. My promise to her? To keep her financially secure until she dies.

The fact that she has forced me to play golf I'm prepared to forgive, even as my balls continually slice off to the left and I curse my ineptitude. Life's pretty good - and not spoilt by the prospect of growing old in Thailand.

Enjoy the moment and do some meditating and the future will take care of itself.

Good. Let's hope you keep your balls centred and "unsliced".

Could not have said that better myself ... but was thinking it. ! Hilarious and my reason for joining.! I will attempt something a bit more serious when i see if my first post has worked. (Totally agree with TommoPhysicist and from a female point of view ... if i do 'bodge' this) Thanks for the test run.

Glad you're getting value for money from the Forum Mr Newbie - first post - congrats.

If you persist in hanging out here you will find that there are grumpy, self righteous, retired, old gits, (they must be retired, they seem to live at their computers!) who have nothing good to say about anything or anyone. They seem to spend their lives in some perpetual acidic froth spewing garbage for all to read - or if they have brains, to ignore.

You'll soon find out who they are. Why they live in Thailand is any one's guess. I think they'd be happier in Margate or Sunderland or even Widgeemooltha (abandoned town 631 km east of Perth, West Australia which I once passed through looking for a large granite monolith called Peak Charles - we found it and put up the first rock climbs).

Anyway - welcome to the fringes of Zombieland.

Hey .. self righteous old 'Dad' misery guts .... come on spill the beans - where on earth is Peak Charles then. ? How did that go. ? (Sounds very interesting) I know its 630 off Perth approx ... setting up rock climbs. ? Come back ... i am so interested. : ) (Knowledge only) - you do realize we might be moved to another 'room' don't you. ! Lol )) Seriously .. would like to hear about that - thanks.