Violent Students To Be Drafted Into Army Automatically: Thailand

[tominbkk]

Secondly, it won't act as a deterrent since the Thais readily admit that they are incapable of figuring out how to stop this "student fighting."

Fine any technical school 1 million baht per student caught fighting. Close any school for one week per student caught fighting.

It is well known that the owners and directors of these school implicitly encourage their sheep to fight for their school. So, hit them where it hurts!!! If money is at stake, you can bet they will curb their minions in.

[ramrod711]

I like the idea, they want to fight, give them a place to do it. The video of the 4 guys putting the boots to one young man in Phuket was shocking, full on take a step football kicks to the head, one after another. I would dearly like to see these guys try some of that with regular army personnel. As for how long it would help, who cares, any amount of time they are off the streets is a bonus.

[LucidLucifer]

It is well known that the owners and directors of these school implicitly encourage their sheep to fight for their school. So, hit them where it hurts!!! If money is at stake, you can bet they will curb their minions in.

Source?

I've heard of some teachers encouraging it, but owners and directors? That's a big jump.

I'm not saying this doesn't happen, just asking where you've got this information.

Edited June 30, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[Bagwan]

This guy knew how to deal with 'orrible little men.

Ronald Brittain.docx

[bigbamboo]

It seems like the wrong approach. For one, what will this do to regular army personnel psychology? That their "duty" is a punishment? Why would loyal regular army personnel feel proud to serve standing next to juvenile delinquents in their ranks?

Secondly, it won't act as a deterrent since the Thais readily admit that they are incapable of figuring out how to stop this "student fighting." So why would they be willing to compromise the integrity of the army and sidestep the core issues in an effort to "trial and error" a circus type approach of disciplinary management?

If you were a loyal regular army troop, would you like to put your life in the hands of a "juvenile delinquent" conscripted into service as punishment? Would you, as a loyal regular army soldier, be comfortable charging in battle or skirmish, while the conscripted by force student fighter is providing cover for you?

Isn't there room for them in the blackshirts?

[Martstar]

Having read a few responses here and various thoughts people have... which are interesting to say the least.... I think that the concept wouldn't do any harm. Take these idiots off the streets for a while and subject them to further 'education and training' in a disciplined manner of which would do most people no harm. I live up in the north right next to an Army base, I have seen and watched the training, these recruits are disciplined... march and run in close order and no one is out of step. You get broken and then built back up, there is no individuals there. I think that we have to remember that if your a grunt in any army, you are fully responsible and accountable for what you say and do. Screwing up means a poo storm coming your way. Most of these idiots will be wetting themselves if they are in a position of having to face military discipline. In addition, the army puts its people to work... some of it not so nice and is f'n hard.... so that won't do them any harm either.

[daboyz1]

If the student is caught fighting at the age of 18, what happens to him for the next 3 years before the conscription age of 21? This is the time when the students are more prone to being involved in fighting (aquiring their gang status if you like) than any other. Even if they send them to boot-camp, this would only be temp.

Can't help imagining these kids doing their conscription time and coming back as mature students! That would give the authorities something of a problem with weapon training and unarmed combat added to their resumes. ................

Give the police more powers over these people, irregardless if the are classed as students or not. Class them as adults or send them to the young offenders centres; that is what they are there for.

One last point, for someone to chase another person, only because they are wearing a different uniform, with a machette, and then tries to hack their head off is not normal in any sense of the word. IMO, they should undergo first a compulsory drug testing followed by a visit to a trick cycilist for a really long talk!

The police?

[surangw]

could be akin to arming sociopaths

[culicine]

Odd's on the rich kids being exempt?

My thoughts exactly ......

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

By and large, rich (slow) kids will not be put in vocational school for these very reasons. They usually end up going to one of the numerous private universities around the country.

[Petesear]

I think it would be a positive move.

It would teach them some discipline, teach them how to control their anger and teach them how to use that anger positively..

They will also get shown that they are not as tough as they thought.

Would they also earn a wage?

[endure]

They should try that in the UK.

One of the reasons the British Army is so good is that the soldiers in it actually want to be there.

[transam]

They should try that in the UK.

One of the reasons the British Army is so good is that the soldiers in it actually want to be there.

Agree BUT, a stint in the Army to teach respect and how tough one really is can shape a lads future eh.

[endure]

They should try that in the UK.

One of the reasons the British Army is so good is that the soldiers in it actually want to be there.

Agree BUT, a stint in the Army to teach respect and how tough one really is can shape a lads future eh.

I'm not sure if I want the organisation meant to defend my country to consist of stroppy teenagers. I'd rather it were full of people who volunteered in order to break things and kill people

[geriatrickid]

An excellent idea...........it will immediately dampen the machismo of the students if they think that by being caught they will get drafted, plus a bit of time in the army will knock the stuffing out of them. Great news!!

Well done, more of the same please

Blether, you are veteran aren't you?

Don't you recall that there was always a nutter or two in the unit? Some were predisposed to violence, some lacked moral fibre and others did not respond well to discipline. Sometimes the noncoms could handle them and at other times, these nutters were just barely managed.

The problem is that when people with aberrant psychology are given a firearm or a position of authority we often see some dismal events result.

Need some examples? US 82nd Airborne misconduct in Afghanistan, the disbandment of the Canadian Airborne regiment subsequent to the deployment in Somalia, British behaviour incidents in Afghanistan etc.

Every review of improper conduct by professional militaries identifies a systemic failure in the identification and screening of personnel. It is extremely difficult to screen out the troublemakers s in the best of times. What we have here is a situation where people predisposed to aberrant and anti-social behaviour are going to be put in a situation where they have the potential to prejudice good order and discipline. Mixing in bad people with good people puts the good people at risk. Did you want to serve alongside a thug that would have stolen from your kit or engaged in war crimes?

Thailand has an insurgency in the south. Think about the ramifications of deploying people predisposed to violence to work in an area where it is easy to abuse and exploit the civilian population. I'm all for discipline, but this has the potential to sow the seeds of disorder and mayhem in the ranks and to cause serious harm to the military when these thugs start stealing equipment and ordinance, abusing fellow troops and the civilian population. The military is no place for anti social deviants.

Edited June 30, 2012 by geriatrickid

[Chang_paarp]

Most modern armies do not want conscripts, they think it is the role of the parents to raise the kids.

On the other hand we are talking about Thai society.

[seminomadic]

Take kids out of their gang environment (probably) and channel that young, violent energy into augmenting the armed forces here. Not a half bad idea.

[Phatcharanan]

Fine any technical school 1 million baht per student caught fighting. Close any school for one week per student caught fighting.

It is well known that the owners and directors of these school implicitly encourage their sheep to fight for their school.

Really?? Let me guess............you know someone who knows someone that says so.

[Phatcharanan]

Most modern armies do not want conscripts, they think it is the role of the parents to raise the kids.

Errrrrrr, by the time the kids are old enough to join/conscripted............they are already 'raised'.

Most armies would welcome the additional manpower I think.

[endure]

Most modern armies do not want conscripts, they think it is the role of the parents to raise the kids.

Errrrrrr, by the time the kids are old enough to join/conscripted............they are already 'raised'.

Most armies would welcome the additional manpower I think.

The British Army is quite fussy about who it takes on. Turning up isn't a guarantee of getting in.

[Phatcharanan]

always a nutter or two in the unit? Some were predisposed to violence, some lacked moral fibre and others did not respond well to discipline.

The problem is that when people with aberrant psychology are given a firearm or a position of authority we often see some dismal events result.

Need some examples? US 82nd Airborne misconduct in Afghanistan, the disbandment of the Canadian Airborne regiment subsequent to the deployment in Somalia, British behaviour incidents in Afghanistan etc.

Every review of improper conduct by professional militaries identifies a systemic failure in the identification and screening of personnel.

Total <deleted>.

There s no 'systemic' failure in identification although there are always nutters who will get through. It has been that way since time immemorial.

And the examples you quote are in combat situations where traumatic stress disorders can affect behavior. And thats also been true since time immemorial.

[Phatcharanan]

Errrrrrr, by the time the kids are old enough to join/conscripted............they are already 'raised'.

Most armies would welcome the additional manpower I think.

The British Army is quite fussy about who it takes on. Turning up isn't a guarantee of getting in.

Yeah I know. Always wondered about that when I wanted to be a roughy toughy para and they advised I go to the RMP.

At least the berets were slighly similar in colour. :-)

[Phatcharanan]

'We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm'.

George Orwell.

[Rob8891]

............

One last point, for someone to chase another person, only because they are wearing a different uniform, with a machette, and then tries to hack their head off is not normal in any sense of the word. ........

Errrrrrrrrr....Isn't this an ideal qualification for turning the wee beggars into cannon-fodder??? I think you just shot yourself in the foot there!

[PingManDan]

Oh my God, these will be the next Red Shirt murders, with their crazy killing attitudes.

Edited June 30, 2012 by PingManDan

[hellodolly]

It seems like the wrong approach. For one, what will this do to regular army personnel psychology? That their "duty" is a punishment? Why would loyal regular army personnel feel proud to serve standing next to juvenile delinquents in their ranks?

Secondly, it won't act as a deterrent since the Thais readily admit that they are incapable of figuring out how to stop this "student fighting." So why would they be willing to compromise the integrity of the army and sidestep the core issues in an effort to "trial and error" a circus type approach of disciplinary management?

If you were a loyal regular army troop, would you like to put your life in the hands of a "juvenile delinquent" conscripted into service as punishment? Would you, as a loyal regular army soldier, be comfortable charging in battle or skirmish, while the conscripted by force student fighter is providing cover for you?

I see it different. first we are not talking about thousands and thousands. Secondly they will be going in at different times and probably never have two in the same training unit and last at least that I know of is it has not ruined the US army. Many was the Juvenile of age given the choice of army or jail. Most took the army. I can't say they came out a better man for it but they did no harm to society while they were in it. I am fairly sure some turned there lives around.

Some times we tend to forget that these kids are OK on their own it is when they get in a group with some rotten eggs that they get led astray. I am not trying to justify their actions but I am pointing out that for many of them the change of there location will help them.

[hellodolly]

An excellent idea...........it will immediately dampen the machismo of the students if they think that by being caught they will get drafted, plus a bit of time in the army will knock the stuffing out of them. Great news!!

Well done, more of the same please

Blether, you are veteran aren't you?

Don't you recall that there was always a nutter or two in the unit? Some were predisposed to violence, some lacked moral fibre and others did not respond well to discipline. Sometimes the noncoms could handle them and at other times, these nutters were just barely managed.

The problem is that when people with aberrant psychology are given a firearm or a position of authority we often see some dismal events result.

Need some examples? US 82nd Airborne misconduct in Afghanistan, the disbandment of the Canadian Airborne regiment subsequent to the deployment in Somalia, British behaviour incidents in Afghanistan etc.

Every review of improper conduct by professional militaries identifies a systemic failure in the identification and screening of personnel. It is extremely difficult to screen out the troublemakers s in the best of times. What we have here is a situation where people predisposed to aberrant and anti-social behaviour are going to be put in a situation where they have the potential to prejudice good order and discipline. Mixing in bad people with good people puts the good people at risk. Did you want to serve alongside a thug that would have stolen from your kit or engaged in war crimes?

Thailand has an insurgency in the south. Think about the ramifications of deploying people predisposed to violence to work in an area where it is easy to abuse and exploit the civilian population. I'm all for discipline, but this has the potential to sow the seeds of disorder and mayhem in the ranks and to cause serious harm to the military when these thugs start stealing equipment and ordinance, abusing fellow troops and the civilian population. The military is no place for anti social deviants.

You are trying to make it sound like there will be thousands and all working together. I highly doubt that would be the case. They stopped a gang of 20 to 40 did not send them to the army but If they had I doubt they would be in a unit with any one they knew.

edit and how long before basic training was over . They might be scattered all over Thailand by the time the next group comes along. I believe many of these kids given peer pressure will change. Yes there will be some rotten eggs but they know how to handle them. It's not like they don't pick up a few in the normal system of conscription.

Edited June 30, 2012 by hellodolly

[geriatrickid]

always a nutter or two in the unit? Some were predisposed to violence, some lacked moral fibre and others did not respond well to discipline.

The problem is that when people with aberrant psychology are given a firearm or a position of authority we often see some dismal events result.

Need some examples? US 82nd Airborne misconduct in Afghanistan, the disbandment of the Canadian Airborne regiment subsequent to the deployment in Somalia, British behaviour incidents in Afghanistan etc.

Every review of improper conduct by professional militaries identifies a systemic failure in the identification and screening of personnel.

Total <deleted>.

There s no 'systemic' failure in identification although there are always nutters who will get through. It has been that way since time immemorial.

And the examples you quote are in combat situations where traumatic stress disorders can affect behavior. And thats also been true since time immemorial.

It is not <deleted>. It is indeed a sytemic failure, because the system used for screening does not effectively screen out those people predisposed to improper conduct. No screening system can be perfect and that is why efforts must be taken to prevent the induction of known deviants. The 1st Battalion The Queen's Lancashire Regiment (QLR) didn't do a good job with the 36 year old corporal did it? (I suggest you read the Gage inquiry report into the Baha Mousa affair.) Why select for the worst type of recruit?

In this particular case, Thais with a known history of violence and deviant behaviour are going to be put into uniform. Have you the slightest clue as to how Thai basic training works? It is not the same as the UK or any other Nato country.The very nature of what conscripts do in their training facilitates abuse and bullying. Emphasis is placed on keeping people from the same towns and provinces together to facilitate cohesion. When my friend did his service, he had 5 of his classmates from school in his unit. More importantly, conscripts are deployed to the south. The last people one needs coming in contact with the civilian population are people with a known history of anti-social or violent behaviour. Oh sure, one can say, the Thai military will act to prevent that. Considering the ineptitude that characterizes the bureacracy in Thailand, I have no faith that these deviants will be kept away from the civilian population. Nor do I believe that these thugs will not revert to their bullying when they come into contact with the meek unsophisticated conscripts from the rural regions. These technical school deviants are older than the typical conscript and they have been engaged in their anti social activities for some time.

Edited July 1, 2012 by geriatrickid

[chrisinth]

............

One last point, for someone to chase another person, only because they are wearing a different uniform, with a machette, and then tries to hack their head off is not normal in any sense of the word. ........

Errrrrrrrrr....Isn't this an ideal qualification for turning the wee beggars into cannon-fodder??? I think you just shot yourself in the foot there!

Can't say much to that really can we?

Taken slightly out of context as we are talking about students attending college, you know, that part that you left out of my quote. Besides, no army (these days anyway) need some nutter taking the law into their own hands.

I do see the irony of your post on my comment however, well done..........

Edited July 1, 2012 by chrisinth

[coma]

Yeah !!! What a real ridiculous idea this is ? Enlist already violent individuals into the army [99% of them will be unwilling participants], teach them how to become more aggressive, to kill, how to use knives and bayonets, use and fire automatic weapons and various other explosive ordnance.Then put them in amongst the army culture, where getting on the piss with the boys and then going out and belting someone's head in is close to the norm.

Then once they have done thier time, turn them loose in society again .

[osiboy]

I'm not so sure about this. Take kids who are violent, have problems with authority, give them weapons and live ammo... and then tell them that their squad is better, stronger, and tougher than other squads. Possible disaster in the making.

There was a series on UK Tv years ago called Lads Army, they took towrags and put them through the national conscription programme from the 50's, at the start one kid said he'd been to every kind of institution and this would be a doddle. He didn't even last a day as they filmed him climbing over a fenceand running down the road saying he couldn't take anymore.

At the end of the series a lot of them joined up and got there lives on track.

yeah , i remember that being on TV, every country should do it , top post !