Is Your Internet Slow

[gharknes]

I have done several internet ping traces over the last few weeks and although everyone thinks there is a problem external to thailand I have found this is not the case, CAT telecom have consistantly shown to be the network problem, here is a trace I did this Am to Thaivisa, you can see very clearly there is a high ping some 200ms within the CAT-11Gservice, I have mailed them several times about this and got no response

[Jai Dee]

It is painfully slow today.

[OldAsiaHand]

Yeah. In spite of all the complaints about True ADSL (and they are more than justified), this is the first day I have found my connnection so slow as to be almost unusable. Most pages time out before loading and the disconnects are continual. Crappy, slow service for two year and I have endured, but it was never even close to this bad before.

[gharknes]

I would guess that all Thailand ISP's use CAT Telecom system somewhere along the line, it seems they are having trouble supplying the demand or they are having maintenance trouble with their routers and equipment, I would go for a mixture of both, either way CAT Telecom is the problem. They are within Thailand

[george]

The main problem is that CAT don't have qualified personell to maintain routers, DNS, proxies etc.

[sierra01]

Or supply enough bandwidth George?

[gharknes]

Or supply enough bandwidth George?

I don't think bandwidth is the problem in this case, if you notice the 200ms issue is between two CAT-11G nodes, there are three, the data from 1-2 is fine but from 2-3 there is a huge dip, ignore the spike later in the trace, this was just a spike, this problem can only get worse.

[buadhai]

I've been on and off most of the day and my connection (MaxNet4Home 512/256) seems about normal. Here's a Speakeasy test using the San Francisco server at 1545 16 January 2006 from Korat:

Download Speed: 380 kbps (47.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 60 kbps (7.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

Here's the traceroute:

traceroute to thaivisa.com (69.93.20.90), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  84.141 ms  5.859 ms  1.347 ms
2  58.147.80.0 (58.147.80.0)  53.537 ms  28.805 ms  28.536 ms
3  10.122.30.254 (10.122.30.254)  29.331 ms  29.478 ms  29.380 ms
4  172.16.10.121 (172.16.10.121)  40.657 ms  40.138 ms  40.177 ms
5  172.16.10.2 (172.16.10.2)  41.120 ms  40.150 ms  40.567 ms
6  172.16.10.98 (172.16.10.98)  42.140 ms  40.949 ms  41.503 ms
7  192.168.10.10 (192.168.10.10)  35.967 ms  36.550 ms  37.417 ms
8  203.156.188.197 (203.156.188.197)  48.905 ms  37.430 ms  36.643 ms
9  gateway.ji-net.com (203.147.0.62)  53.833 ms  39.719 ms  37.979 ms
10  61.19.15.213 (61.19.15.213)  38.876 ms  48.685 ms  37.581 ms
11  202.47.253.138 (202.47.253.138)  335.976 ms  333.332 ms  395.048 ms
12  202.47.253.217 (202.47.253.217)  464.794 ms  538.942 ms  455.779 ms
13  63.65.153.13 (63.65.153.13)  513.162 ms  454.725 ms  456.134 ms
14  0.so-7-0-0.xl1.lax1.alter.net (152.63.112.250)  510.340 ms  515.990 ms  506.129 ms
15  0.so-7-0-0.xl1.dfw13.alter.net (152.63.103.218)  489.721 ms  488.671 ms  484.105 ms
16  pos6-0.gw1.dfw13.alter.net (152.63.103.85)  599.677 ms  571.760 ms  553.865 ms
17  theplanet-gw.customer.alter.net (157.130.143.226)  568.668 ms  649.651 ms  547.434 ms
18  vl31.dsr02.dllstx3.theplanet.com (70.85.127.30)  503.508 ms  519.459 ms  503.286 ms
19  vl22.dsr02.dllstx2.theplanet.com (70.85.127.76)  578.278 ms  635.392 ms  590.659 ms
20  vl1.car12.dllstx2.theplanet.com (12.96.160.17)  617.763 ms  550.747 ms  550.990 ms
21  thaivisa.com (69.93.20.90)  571.981 ms  559.393 ms  544.878 ms

Pretty dismal on that same hop to 202.47.253.138

Edited January 16, 2006 by buadhai

[astral]

CAT is a real dog.

[Deksan]

Or supply enough bandwidth George?

I don't think bandwidth is the problem in this case, if you notice the 200ms issue is between two CAT-11G nodes, there are three, the data from 1-2 is fine but from 2-3 there is a huge dip, ignore the spike later in the trace, this was just a spike, this problem can only get worse.

I dont think it s really the pbm, there might be one ip for the router inside CAT for the provider

and the next router is the CAT gateway. So 200ms between cat router isp and cat router gateway

just means your isp is saturated and need more bandwidth. I dont want to find excuses for

CAT but ISPs arent all white here. I m impatient that ISPs acquire their own bandwitdth and

get rid of CAT, less ppl involved = less troubles.

[skippybangkok]

CAT is being side lined slowly...... the future looks bright ( refer to NTC rulings of late). Possibly we might look forward to more stable connections and cheaper o/s calls once competition comes in

[giulio]

The main problem is that CAT don't have qualified personell to maintain routers, DNS, proxies etc.

i gree with you

but i think also that the bandwitch is not enough and many times is oversystem,but cat and all isp continue to make new contracts adsl.........so maybe after 1 years maybe me that i get goldcyber tot i'm able to download from europe to 1-3 kilobytes

[gharknes]

I've been on and off most of the day and my connection (MaxNet4Home 512/256) seems about normal. Here's a Speakeasy test using the San Francisco server at 1545 16 January 2006 from Korat:

Download Speed: 380 kbps (47.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 60 kbps (7.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

Here's the traceroute:

traceroute to thaivisa.com (69.93.20.90), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  84.141 ms  5.859 ms  1.347 ms
2  58.147.80.0 (58.147.80.0)  53.537 ms  28.805 ms  28.536 ms
3  10.122.30.254 (10.122.30.254)  29.331 ms  29.478 ms  29.380 ms
4  172.16.10.121 (172.16.10.121)  40.657 ms  40.138 ms  40.177 ms
5  172.16.10.2 (172.16.10.2)  41.120 ms  40.150 ms  40.567 ms
6  172.16.10.98 (172.16.10.98)  42.140 ms  40.949 ms  41.503 ms
7  192.168.10.10 (192.168.10.10)  35.967 ms  36.550 ms  37.417 ms
8  203.156.188.197 (203.156.188.197)  48.905 ms  37.430 ms  36.643 ms
9  gateway.ji-net.com (203.147.0.62)  53.833 ms  39.719 ms  37.979 ms
10  61.19.15.213 (61.19.15.213)  38.876 ms  48.685 ms  37.581 ms
11  202.47.253.138 (202.47.253.138)  335.976 ms  333.332 ms  395.048 ms
12  202.47.253.217 (202.47.253.217)  464.794 ms  538.942 ms  455.779 ms
13  63.65.153.13 (63.65.153.13)  513.162 ms  454.725 ms  456.134 ms
14  0.so-7-0-0.xl1.lax1.alter.net (152.63.112.250)  510.340 ms  515.990 ms  506.129 ms
15  0.so-7-0-0.xl1.dfw13.alter.net (152.63.103.218)  489.721 ms  488.671 ms  484.105 ms
16  pos6-0.gw1.dfw13.alter.net (152.63.103.85)  599.677 ms  571.760 ms  553.865 ms
17  theplanet-gw.customer.alter.net (157.130.143.226)  568.668 ms  649.651 ms  547.434 ms
18  vl31.dsr02.dllstx3.theplanet.com (70.85.127.30)  503.508 ms  519.459 ms  503.286 ms
19  vl22.dsr02.dllstx2.theplanet.com (70.85.127.76)  578.278 ms  635.392 ms  590.659 ms
20  vl1.car12.dllstx2.theplanet.com (12.96.160.17)  617.763 ms  550.747 ms  550.990 ms
21  thaivisa.com (69.93.20.90)  571.981 ms  559.393 ms  544.878 ms

Pretty dismal on that same hop to 202.47.253.138

your connection doesn't seem to go near cat telecom so you are lucky and hardly relevant to us unfortunate peps

[gharknes]

I've been on and off most of the day and my connection (MaxNet4Home 512/256) seems about normal. Here's a Speakeasy test using the San Francisco server at 1545 16 January 2006 from Korat:

Download Speed: 380 kbps (47.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 60 kbps (7.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

Here's the traceroute:

traceroute to thaivisa.com (69.93.20.90), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  84.141 ms  5.859 ms  1.347 ms
2  58.147.80.0 (58.147.80.0)  53.537 ms  28.805 ms  28.536 ms
3  10.122.30.254 (10.122.30.254)  29.331 ms  29.478 ms  29.380 ms
4  172.16.10.121 (172.16.10.121)  40.657 ms  40.138 ms  40.177 ms
5  172.16.10.2 (172.16.10.2)  41.120 ms  40.150 ms  40.567 ms
6  172.16.10.98 (172.16.10.98)  42.140 ms  40.949 ms  41.503 ms
7  192.168.10.10 (192.168.10.10)  35.967 ms  36.550 ms  37.417 ms
8  203.156.188.197 (203.156.188.197)  48.905 ms  37.430 ms  36.643 ms
9  gateway.ji-net.com (203.147.0.62)  53.833 ms  39.719 ms  37.979 ms
10  61.19.15.213 (61.19.15.213)  38.876 ms  48.685 ms  37.581 ms
11  202.47.253.138 (202.47.253.138)  335.976 ms  333.332 ms  395.048 ms
12  202.47.253.217 (202.47.253.217)  464.794 ms  538.942 ms  455.779 ms
13  63.65.153.13 (63.65.153.13)  513.162 ms  454.725 ms  456.134 ms
14  0.so-7-0-0.xl1.lax1.alter.net (152.63.112.250)  510.340 ms  515.990 ms  506.129 ms
15  0.so-7-0-0.xl1.dfw13.alter.net (152.63.103.218)  489.721 ms  488.671 ms  484.105 ms
16  pos6-0.gw1.dfw13.alter.net (152.63.103.85)  599.677 ms  571.760 ms  553.865 ms
17  theplanet-gw.customer.alter.net (157.130.143.226)  568.668 ms  649.651 ms  547.434 ms
18  vl31.dsr02.dllstx3.theplanet.com (70.85.127.30)  503.508 ms  519.459 ms  503.286 ms
19  vl22.dsr02.dllstx2.theplanet.com (70.85.127.76)  578.278 ms  635.392 ms  590.659 ms
20  vl1.car12.dllstx2.theplanet.com (12.96.160.17)  617.763 ms  550.747 ms  550.990 ms
21  thaivisa.com (69.93.20.90)  571.981 ms  559.393 ms  544.878 ms

Pretty dismal on that same hop to 202.47.253.138

your connection doesn't seem to go near cat telecom so you are lucky and hardly relevant to us unfortunate peps

oh it does, CAT are nodes 11 and 12, the ones with high ping

[melus]

I get the same high ping within the CAT-11Gservice as well.

[Abandon]

The problem is that CAT do not have enough experienced personell to wind up their computer.

[Phil Conners]

Latency is not the same as bandwidth. What you see is just the trip from Bangkok to Los Angeles - that kind of distance will always take a long time.

I used to think CAT was the biggest problem but I have to say that I generally get the 512/256 promised with my CSLOX/TTT ADSL. Not cheap, mind, at 2800 bt/month, but well worth the price!

[gharknes]

Latency is not the same as bandwidth. What you see is just the trip from Bangkok to Los Angeles - that kind of distance will always take a long time.

I used to think CAT was the biggest problem but I have to say that I generally get the 512/256 promised with my CSLOX/TTT ADSL. Not cheap, mind, at 2800 bt/month, but well worth the price!

the high ping you are looking at is within the CAT network between 2 nodes in thailand and not Los Angeles

[Phil Conners]

No, that's not how it works. Each ping value is the latency from your PC to the IP address noted.

202.47.253.217 is CAT's router in the US, the latency of ~250ms is the tip over the Pacific.

[gharknes]

No, that's not how it works. Each ping value is the latency from your PC to the IP address noted.

202.47.253.217 is CAT's router in the US, the latency of ~250ms is the tip over the Pacific.

CAT doesn't have a router in the USA, the node you describe above is in Thailand, my trace software also has a geographical map display, it also shows location data. I also understand about latency but most people know what ping is so i use that term. I worked for Nortel Networks for 27 years

Edited January 18, 2006 by gharknes

[monty]

Both 61.19.15.213 and 202.47.253.217 are Asia Pacific's gateway, located in Queensland, Australia. Milton to be specific...

It seems Ji-net (and Maxnet, which uses the Ji-net infrastructure) gets priority over trafic coming from True!

I can ping as much as I like, my traffic never gets stuck for more then 200 msec in CAT's servers...

Edited January 18, 2006 by monty

[monty]

Eventhough most graphical trace programs will place the servers in Thailand, these servers ar in Australia!

202.47.253.138

Record Type: IP Address

OrgName: Asia Pacific Network Information Centre

OrgID: APNIC

Address: PO Box 2131

City: Milton

StateProv: QLD

PostalCode: 4064

Country: AU

My traffic never pings more then 300 msec on these Australian servers...

So this might actually be the traffic coming from True only being held up, probably because CAT throttles the bandwidth according to how much ISP's pay!!!

[lom]

Both 61.19.15.213 and 202.47.253.217 are Asia Pacific's gateway, located in Queensland, Australia. Milton to be specific...

It seems Ji-net (and Maxnet, which uses the Ji-net infrastructure) gets priority over trafic coming from True!

I can ping as much as I like, my traffic never gets stuck for more then 200 msec in CAT's servers...

IP Address: 202.47.253.217

Location: BANGKOK (13.733 N, 100.500 E)

Network: CAT-IIGservice

IP Address: 61.1915.213

Location: BANGKOK (13.733 N, 100.500 E)

Network: CAT

so they are in no way related to Asia Pacific Au.

Today , there is "just" a 200mS delay within CAT and another 120mS from CAT to NTT (Verio) in US.

The 120mS delay is justified by the distance between the nodes but the delay within CAT is not

acceptable. It was 800 - 1000 mS last week so internet seems speedy today

[Phil Conners]

Well you believe what you want but I can tell you for 100% sure that this 200+ ms hop is definitely the hop out of Thailand.

[lom]

Well you believe what you want but I can tell you for 100% sure that this 200+ ms hop is definitely the hop out of Thailand.

Yes sure I do, especially after having checked

http://www.verio.com/about/network/gin.cfm

and

http://www.cat.net.th/thix/connectivitymap.html

I cant see (and there is no reason for it) that traffic from LOS passes AU on it's

way to US or Europe.

I believe the 200+ mS is spent within a very busy CAT caching proxxy server..

[Mali_in_CM]

Yeah, mine is slow. I've got the el cheapo 999B/mo with no speed promised.

Is there an ISP in ChiangMai who will deliver on, let's say, 512/256?

Any idea of price?

[Silurian]

I contacted True since I am experiencing 50K to 90K download speeds during the evening to the US. Of course they did the usual of testing the line. Then they insisted to send out a technician to the house. I know it isn't an issue with the line in the house since I get 2M to adslthailand.com. When the technician came out, I explained the issue to him. He called the office and then explained to me that True only guarantees bandwidth within their network. He then stated that the reason it is slow is due to CAT limiting the bandwidth out from True and there is nothing that True can do about it. He did state I could purchase a leased line for 30,000 baht/month. That's not going to happen.

I did find that my company has a local VPN pop for me to use but for some reason I get between 160ms to 220ms ping time from my house in Bangkok to that VPN gateway which I believe is in Bangkok. I have no idea how this traffic is getting routed around. The tracert shows at least 15 hops from my house to a point where it seems to be blocked. At least it seems better to go across the VPN for now until the True/CAT interchange gets better.

-Sil

[sierra01]

Could someone put all this into plain, old fashioned English for those of us that haven't a clue what on earth your talking about, and just want to know why our internet speeds are a joke?

[gharknes]

boy has it ground to a halt within the last 30 minutes, i upgraded from 256 to 512 yesterday and this today is very very bad indeed, there must be technical problems somewhere, i tried to call TT&T tech line and it is constantly engaged, i tried a speed test and it timed out lol

[Crushdepth]

He called the office and then explained to me that True only guarantees bandwidth within their network.

This is true, if you look at the fine print, if not altogether in line with user expectation.

He then stated that the reason it is slow is due to CAT limiting the bandwidth out from True

This is mostly true, in that True cannot get as much international bandwidth from CAT as they want, and they have publicly called for ending CAT's monopoly so they can deal with other providers. However:

and there is nothing that True can do about it.

This is complete bullshit. True *could* stop signing up new ADSL customers until they can get more international bandwidth from CAT.

Edited January 18, 2006 by Crushdepth