Karon Roadblock - Eu Driving License Wasn't Enough

[F1fanatic]

^^^ A very good reason to have a dash cam installed, with side and rear view.

What is a good reason for that, a roadblock for people driving without valid license?

I could well be wrong, but I seem to recall you drive a samlaw? My understanding is that, strictly speaking, they are illegal.

The shop has a motorbike with sidecar which I drive about one a month, yes. So what is the connection with driving a motorbike without a motorbike license?

Just that I thought samlaws were illegal?

But forgive me if I've misunderstood.

[NamKangMan]

^^^ A very good reason to have a dash cam installed, with side and rear view.

What is a good reason for that, a roadblock for people driving without valid license?

I could well be wrong, but I seem to recall you drive a samlaw? My understanding is that, strictly speaking, they are illegal.

The shop has a motorbike with sidecar which I drive about one a month, yes. So what is the connection with driving a motorbike without a motorbike license?

So, you are driving your illegal vehicle one day and a Thai crashes into you and his young kid dies. The Thai Police say it's your fault because you are driving an illegal vehilce - and this COULD NOT happen and is BS, is it?

[stevenl]

Just that I thought samlaws were illegal?

But forgive me if I've misunderstood.

Yes, they are strictly speaking illegal, so? What is the connection with driving a motorbike without a license?

[NamKangMan]

Just that I thought samlaws were illegal?

But forgive me if I've misunderstood.

To my knowledge, they are, but then again, so are all the tuk-tuks without a side door enterance for passengers.

[F1fanatic]

Just that I thought samlaws were illegal?

But forgive me if I've misunderstood.

Yes, they are strictly speaking illegal, so? What is the connection with driving a motorbike without a license?

Simply that 'people in glass houses' etc.

Your post (no. 27) implied that you had a problem with people driving illegally without a proper motorbike license. But perhaps I understood your post incorrectly.

Edited October 10, 2012 by F1fanatic

[stevenl]

Just that I thought samlaws were illegal?

But forgive me if I've misunderstood.

Yes, they are strictly speaking illegal, so? What is the connection with driving a motorbike without a license?

Simply that 'people in glass houses' etc.

Your post (no. 27) implied that you had a problem with people driving illegally without a proper motorbike license. But perhaps I understood your post incorrectly.

I don't think it wise to drive a motorbike without a motorbike license, but my post #27 had nothing to do with that. I was simply enquiring what a dashcam would help at police block, he has answered, all clear what he meant.

Driving a vehicle that here is very much recognised by the whole population (except for some expats), is insured, passes the road test every year, passes BIB checks, etc., is completely different from driving a vehicle without a valid license.

[NamKangMan]

Just that I thought samlaws were illegal?

But forgive me if I've misunderstood.

Yes, they are strictly speaking illegal, so? What is the connection with driving a motorbike without a license?

Simply that 'people in glass houses' etc.

Your post (no. 27) implied that you had a problem with people driving illegally without a proper motorbike license. But perhaps I understood your post incorrectly.

I don't think it wise to drive a motorbike without a motorbike license, but my post #27 had nothing to do with that. I was simply enquiring what a dashcam would help at police block, he has answered, all clear what he meant.

Driving a vehicle that here is very much recognised by the whole population (except for some expats), is insured, passes the road test every year, passes BIB checks, etc., is completely different from driving a vehicle without a valid license.

I think the member meant that dashcam footage could be used if you were not at fault in the accident but a demand for money was put on you as if the accident was your fault.

[F1fanatic]

Just that I thought samlaws were illegal?

But forgive me if I've misunderstood.

Yes, they are strictly speaking illegal, so? What is the connection with driving a motorbike without a license?

Simply that 'people in glass houses' etc.

Your post (no. 27) implied that you had a problem with people driving illegally without a proper motorbike license. But perhaps I understood your post incorrectly.

I don't think it wise to drive a motorbike without a motorbike license, but my post #27 had nothing to do with that. I was simply enquiring what a dashcam would help at police block, he has answered, all clear what he meant.

Driving a vehicle that here is very much recognised by the whole population (except for some expats), is insured, passes the road test every year, passes BIB checks, etc., is completely different from driving a vehicle without a valid license.

I drive a samlaw too - so I'm not criticising you for driving a samlaw, just for believing that driving without a 'proper' license is somehow different to driving an illegal vehicle!

Both are examples of laws that are normally tolerated but, nonetheless, illegal.

[SantiSuk]

I read on another thread today that you cannot apply for a Thai driving license (presumably applies to both cars and bikes) with a Tourist Visa. Presumably then that would be an adequate defence to BIB if stopped and all you have is a valid foreign license? `Sorry mate, Thailand not allow. Me tourist` I realise that this may not work if you are on a bike and have only a valid foreign license for cars. I realise (based on the advice in this thread) that it also leaves you exposed to denial of insurance cover.

Useful thread - makes me realise I should take a bike test here (have non-O visa and Thai car license) to cover off that insurance risk and occasional BIB risk. I only ride it around the local Isaan village but occasionally rent a scooter if on holiday. Also prompted me to look at my home country license and relaised it will run out soon!

Those that have taken a motorbike test here using a scooter-type-bike; is it easy? I am no biker, though I have no problems controlling these light-weight low power jobbies on a casual basis. Any tips for technique that someone who has never been trained to ride a motorbike might want to know for such a test?

[stevenl]

I drive a samlaw too - so I'm not criticising you for driving a samlaw, just for believing that driving without a 'proper' license is somehow different to driving an illegal vehicle!

Both are examples of laws that are normally tolerated but, nonetheless, illegal.

Driving on the wrong side of the road or driving a motorbike with sidecar does not invalidate your insurance, driving without a license potentially does. Therefor big differences IMO.

[Somtamnication]

So to understand the OP. He was driving a motocy in Thailand with an EU automobile drivers licence. In any EU country, you get caught doing that, you lose points, insurance goes up and may get a driving ban.

Here, the OP got away with a 500 baht fine, no points deducted, no insurance raised and he was ****allowed**** to continue driving..

I do not understand the complaint or request for other opinions.

[LivinginKata]

I read on another thread today that you cannot apply for a Thai driving license (presumably applies to both cars and bikes) with a Tourist Visa. Presumably then that would be an adequate defence to BIB if stopped and all you have is a valid foreign license? `Sorry mate, Thailand not allow. Me tourist` I realise that this may not work if you are on a bike and have only a valid foreign license for cars. I realise (based on the advice in this thread) that it also leaves you exposed to denial of insurance cover.

Not always true. If you can extract the covering paperwork (rental contract/tabian baan/ID) from the owner/landlord and extract a residence paper from Immigration (500 baht usually does the trick) then Vehicle Licence Department will process your licence application. I know plenty of 'tourists' who have been sucessful applying.

[F1fanatic]

I drive a samlaw too - so I'm not criticising you for driving a samlaw, just for believing that driving without a 'proper' license is somehow different to driving an illegal vehicle!

Both are examples of laws that are normally tolerated but, nonetheless, illegal.

Driving on the wrong side of the road or driving a motorbike with sidecar does not invalidate your insurance, driving without a license potentially does. Therefor big differences IMO.

OK - I take your word for it that driving a samlaw would not invalidate the (totally inadequate - motorbike) insurance.

But that is no reason to get 'holier than thou' over someone else driving illegally in a way that is administrative, rather than illegal as a result of dangerous driving.

Edit - Especially when you know that you are actually driving illegally yourself!

Edited October 10, 2012 by F1fanatic

[stevenl]

I drive a samlaw too - so I'm not criticising you for driving a samlaw, just for believing that driving without a 'proper' license is somehow different to driving an illegal vehicle!

Both are examples of laws that are normally tolerated but, nonetheless, illegal.

Driving on the wrong side of the road or driving a motorbike with sidecar does not invalidate your insurance, driving without a license potentially does. Therefor big differences IMO.

OK - I take your word for it that driving a samlaw would not invalidate the (totally inadequate - motorbike) insurance.

But that is no reason to get 'holier than thou' over someone else driving illegally in a way that is administrative, rather than illegal as a result of dangerous driving.

Edit - Especially when you know that you are actually driving illegally yourself!

Again, driving a motorbike without valid license is IMO not a good idea and not done. Is that 'holier than thou' or simply common sense?

[gusG]

Yes, hitting the throttle would have been pretty stupid in reality.

First, I know that Roadblock outside Karon well, but no problem, as I never drive without all papers and with helmet.

To my knowledge, you would need not only the right car/motorbike license of your home country, you need an -International Driving License-

I used for years my Austrian drivers license, which has written -Driving license- in many languages over it, without a problem,

as a "International driving permit". Also be questioned some time, never paid.

Now I have, since some years also my Original International Drivers License and as it is limited in validity, I stretch that with "adjusting the year of limitation" myself, from time to time.

-Hitting the throttle-

Made that just recently 2-3 month ago..

Approached a road block on the Highway from Udon Thani - Sakhon Nakhon in Isaan with an old Honda 400cc CBR Fireblade sportbike,

my 5 year son as pillion rider.

I came way to fast, with really loud exhaust and I did not wear a helmet. (Son had) Was not planned to go that far!

It was a bit crowded at the Roadblock, as they stopped everybody. I would have to pay for sure.

So I passed by the small column slowly and when the next Policeman recognized me passing and raised his arm, I hit the throttle.

Gone with the very loud sound. My GF's home was not far, some miles down from the Highway.

My license plates are from another Ex GF who is from other province, but does not live there anymore, stays somewhere.

Not easy to find my whereabouts.

I am so glad that you are usually so responsible about never driving without all your papers and helmet.

But you admit to coming "way too fast" and then "hitting the throttle" to escape a road block with your 5 year old son on the back.

Unbelievable.

[TommoPhysicist]

Slightly off topic.

Today I saw a female tourist rent a scoopy m/c, drive 200m, then fall off, 5m in front of me.

She was wearing very short shorts, and had clearly never been on a m/c before.

She lost A LOT of skin from both legs from ankle to thigh, and had only been driving at about 10Km/hr. Wearing long trousers would have prevented most of the injuries.

There really is a good reason for people to have driving licenses, and for their own protection, the police should fine unlicensed people heavily. Especially tourists who have clearly never ridden before. They are a danger to themselves and everyone else on the road. A busy Asian main road is not the place to learn.

I see about five (unlicensed) tourists (mainly female) fall off each month and carry a medical kit to try and fix them up. Surprisingly most refuse my help, despite the dangers of untreated cuts in tropical countries.

Edited October 10, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[NomadJoe]

Good to know that the 'volunteer farang policemen' are not volunteering as they want to help Westerners.

I've always wondered about them, and reading the OP's story, my initial feelings of mistrust have changed to outright contempt.

I'm definitely not including the volunteers who help at Immigration - they clearly only want to help and are not some sort of crazed 'power trip'.

A farang making sure only people with improper licenses are cited is "Clearly a crazed power trip?" A nutty comment even for you F1.

The OP had the wrong license and was cited for it. If he had the right license, the Thai cop would have handed it to the same farang who (if he knew his stuff) would have told the Thai police that is was the correct license and he would have passed without the Thai cops having the opportunity to claim it wasn't correct. That is a great service to Westerners.

F1, please get some perspective.

[NomadJoe]

To my knowledge, you would need not only the right car/motorbike license of your home country, you need an -International Driving License-

I used for years my Austrian drivers license, which has written -Driving license- in many languages over it, without a problem,

as a "International driving permit". Also be questioned some time, never paid.

Most countries, including Thailand and Australia, are contracting states of the 1949 Geneva Convention on road traffic. If your country is a contracting state, you don't need an IDP in Thailand as a tourist if your license is in English and has a photo.

-Hitting the throttle-

Made that just recently 2-3 month ago..

Approached a road block on the Highway from Udon Thani - Sakhon Nakhon in Isaan with an old Honda 400cc CBR Fireblade sportbike,

my 5 year son as pillion rider.

I came way to fast, with really loud exhaust and I did not wear a helmet. (Son had) Was not planned to go that far!

It was a bit crowded at the Roadblock, as they stopped everybody. I would have to pay for sure.

So I passed by the small column slowly and when the next Policeman recognized me passing and raised his arm, I hit the throttle.

Gone with the very loud sound. My GF's home was not far, some miles down from the Highway.

My license plates are from another Ex GF who is from other province, but does not live there anymore, stays somewhere.

Not easy to find my whereabouts.

Congratulations. You are the...

[NamKangMan]

I drive a samlaw too - so I'm not criticising you for driving a samlaw, just for believing that driving without a 'proper' license is somehow different to driving an illegal vehicle!

Both are examples of laws that are normally tolerated but, nonetheless, illegal.

Driving on the wrong side of the road or driving a motorbike with sidecar does not invalidate your insurance, driving without a license potentially does. Therefor big differences IMO.

In my home country, a vehicle that is unregistered is therefore uninsured. You can't register an illegal vehicle, so, no insurance, even if you have a licence.

A motorbike with sidecar, to my knowledge, is illegal here. Obviously, some may unbolt the sidecar, take the motorbike for it's inspection, pay the registration, and it's legal, however, as soon as you bolt the sidecar back on, it becomes an illegal vehicle and I'm sure an insurance company will deem your insurance invalid. So, you are driving along and the sidecar snaps off and hurts someone or damages property - I'm quite sure you will be uninsured.

Yes, I know we are in Thailand. Like I said, apparently, all tuk-tuks without a side enterance for passengers are illegal and who knows if they are even registered, let alone insured.

[NamKangMan]

So to understand the OP. He was driving a motocy in Thailand with an EU automobile drivers licence. In any EU country, you get caught doing that, you lose points, insurance goes up and may get a driving ban.

Here, the OP got away with a 500 baht fine, no points deducted, no insurance raised and he was ****allowed**** to continue driving..

I do not understand the complaint or request for other opinions.

I think what the OP is on about is what used to be acceptable here by the BIB (riding on any form of farang licence) is now no longer acceptable and you will be fined, with the assistance of a farang volunteer policeman.

Oh dear, Phuket is becoming A Nanny State. :)

[NamKangMan]

I read on another thread today that you cannot apply for a Thai driving license (presumably applies to both cars and bikes) with a Tourist Visa. Presumably then that would be an adequate defence to BIB if stopped and all you have is a valid foreign license? `Sorry mate, Thailand not allow. Me tourist` I realise that this may not work if you are on a bike and have only a valid foreign license for cars. I realise (based on the advice in this thread) that it also leaves you exposed to denial of insurance cover.

Not always true. If you can extract the covering paperwork (rental contract/tabian baan/ID) from the owner/landlord and extract a residence paper from Immigration (500 baht usually does the trick) then Vehicle Licence Department will process your licence application. I know plenty of 'tourists' who have been sucessful applying.

You can get a licence on a tourist visa, with the correct paperwork you mention. However, whilst on a tourist visa, you can only ever get a 1 year licence. For insurance purposes, this is still worth it, considering the financial loss from medical expenses you may face if you are badly injured in an accident.

[NamKangMan]

Slightly off topic.

Today I saw a female tourist rent a scoopy m/c, drive 200m, then fall off, 5m in front of me.

She was wearing very short shorts, and had clearly never been on a m/c before.

She lost A LOT of skin from both legs from ankle to thigh, and had only been driving at about 10Km/hr. Wearing long trousers would have prevented most of the injuries.

There really is a good reason for people to have driving licenses, and for their own protection, the police should fine unlicensed people heavily. Especially tourists who have clearly never ridden before. They are a danger to themselves and everyone else on the road. A busy Asian main road is not the place to learn.

I see about five (unlicensed) tourists (mainly female) fall off each month and carry a medical kit to try and fix them up. Surprisingly most refuse my help, despite the dangers of untreated cuts in tropical countries.

Tuk-Tuk Tuk-Tuk

The amount of tourists I see here with bandages and scabs over their elbows and knees is phenomenal. Then, we all read about the tourists in hospital and the tourists that didn't make it home as a result of motorbike accidents here.

These tourists didn't come to Phuket to learn how to ride a motorbike as a tourist activity. They opt to try to ride, and survive, rather than get ripped off by tuk-tuk drivers.

Phuket claims to be A World Class Tourist Destination, yet it hasn't got any proper public transport.

Edited October 10, 2012 by NamKangMan

[NomadJoe]

IDP's aren't required in Thailand anyway, as evidenced by the fact that you did not get a ticket for not having one.

That is partially true depending on the 1949 UN convention signatories and specific countries.

Completely true for these countries, all contracting states:

Albania

1 Oct 1969 a

Algeria

16 May 1963 a

Argentina

25 Nov 1960 a

Australia

7 Dec 1954 a

Austria

19 Sep 1949

[2 Nov 1955]

Bangladesh

6 Dec 1978 a

Barbados

5 Mar 1971 d

Belgium

19 Sep 1949

23 Apr 1954

Benin

5 Dec 1961 d

Botswana

3 Jan 1967 a

Bulgaria

13 Feb 1963 a

Burkina Faso

31Aug 2009 a

Cambodia

14 Mar 1956 a

Canada

23 Dec 1965 a

Central African Republic

4 Sep 1962 d

Chile

10 Aug 1960 a

Congo

15 May 1962 a

Côte d'Ivoire

8 Dec 1961 d

Cuba

1 Oct 1952 a

Cyprus

6 Jul 1962 d

Czech Republic

2 Jun 1993 d

Democratic Republic of the Congo

6 Mar 1961 d

Denmark

19 Sep 1949

3 Feb 1956

Dominican Republic

19 Sep 1949

15 Aug 1957

Ecuador

26 Sep 1962 a

Egypt

19 Sep 1949

28 May 1957

Fiji

31 Oct 1972 d

Finland

24 Sep 1958 a

France

19 Sep 1949

15 Sep 1950

Georgia

23 Jul 1993 a

Ghana

6 Jan 1959 a

Greece

1 Jul 1952 a

Guatemala

10 Jan 1962 a

Haiti

12 Feb 1958 a

Holy See

5 Oct 1953 a

Hungary

30 Jul 1962 a

Iceland

22 Jul 1983 a

India

19 Sep 1949

9 Mar 1962

Ireland

31 May 1962 a

Israel

19 Sep 1949

6 Jan 1955

Italy

19 Sep 1949

15 Dec 1952

Jamaica

9 Aug 1963 d

Japan

7 Aug 1964 a

Jordan

14 Jan 1960 a

Kyrgyzstan

22 Mar 1994 a

Lao People's Democratic Republic

6 Mar 1959 a

Lebanon

19 Sep 1949

2 Aug 1963

Lesotho

27 Sep 1973 a

Luxembourg

19 Sep 1949

17 Oct 1952

Madagascar

27 Jun 1962 d

Malawi

17 Feb 1965 d

Malaysia

10 Sep 1958 a

Mali

19 Nov 1962 d

Malta

3 Jan 1966 d

Monaco

3 Aug 1951 a

Montenegro

23 Oct 2006 d

Morocco

7 Nov 1956 d

Namibia

13 Oct 1993 d

Netherlands

19 Sep 1949

19 Sep 1952

New Zealand

12 Feb 1958 a

Niger

25 Aug 1961 d

Nigeria

3 February 2011 a

Norway

19 Sep 1949

11 Apr 1957

Papua New Guinea

12 Feb 1981 a

Paraguay

18 Oct 1965 a

Peru

9 Jul 1957 a

Philippines

19 Sep 1949

15 Sep 1952

Poland

29 Oct 1958 a

Portugal

28 Dec 1955 a

Republic of Korea

14 Jun 1971 d

Romania

26 Jan 1961 a

Russian Federation

17 Aug 1959 a

Rwanda

5 Aug 1964 d

San Marino

19 Mar 1962 a

Senegal

13 Jul 1962 d

Serbia

12 Mar 2001 d

Sierra Leone

13 Mar 1962 d

Singapore

29 Nov 1972 d

Slovakia

1 Feb 1993 d

South Africa

19 Sep 1949

9 Jul 1952 a

Spain

13 Feb 1958 a

Sri Lanka

26 Jul 1957 a

Sweden

19 Sep 1949

25 Feb 1952

Switzerland

19 Sep 1949

Syrian Arab Republic

11 Dec 1953 a

Thailand

15 Aug 1962 a

Togo

27 Feb 1962 d

Trinidad and Tobago

8 Jul 1964 a

Tunisia

8 Nov 1957 a

Turkey

17 Jan 1956 a

Uganda

15 Apr 1965 a

United Arab Emirates

10 Jan 2007 a

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

19 Sep 1949

8 Jul 1957

United States of America

19 Sep 1949

30 Aug 1950

Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)

11 May 1962 a

Zimbabwe

1 Dec 1998 d

http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/legalinst_07_RTRSS_RT1949.html

[britpop]

when i got my 5 year Thai driving licence i had long hair, slimmer, no glasses in the photo of coarse, no beard, the usual changes in my mid life crises have happened, so most times that i get stopped, the Thai chappy says"not you" , i never really get flustered, i just reply "really not me" i give a long Thai oooooohhhh, but yes the crazy thing is then they except my EU licence, figure that one out. of coarse it confirms it's me, although that picture is about the same time of the Thai one.

A friend got stopped 2 days ago, has a oz licence, Thai Policeman say "you fine", now at this point it's best to seek the nearest bunker, fall out shelter, panic room, having a bad day already the friend say "No!!!!!, you get supervisor, get your captain", immediately the policeman say "licence good today, not tomorrow, go", sometimes good to call there bluff.

[TommoPhysicist]

I read on another thread today that you cannot apply for a Thai driving license (presumably applies to both cars and bikes) with a Tourist Visa. Presumably then that would be an adequate defence to BIB if stopped and all you have is a valid foreign license? `Sorry mate, Thailand not allow. Me tourist` I realise that this may not work if you are on a bike and have only a valid foreign license for cars. I realise (based on the advice in this thread) that it also leaves you exposed to denial of insurance cover

That post was incorrect, you can get a 1 year Thai (temporary) driving license on a tourist visa, but you can't get a 5 year (full) driving license in some offices.

[modafinil]

So to understand the OP. He was driving a motocy in Thailand with an EU automobile drivers licence. In any EU country, you get caught doing that, you lose points, insurance goes up and may get a driving ban.

Here, the OP got away with a 500 baht fine, no points deducted, no insurance raised and he was ****allowed**** to continue driving..

I do not understand the complaint or request for other opinions.

You don't understand the complaint? Where did you see me complaining? You would be conferring a great honor on me by highlighting the places in this thread where I made a "complaint".

Oh, what's that? You can't? No, you can't because I didn't actually make any complaint.

To address your other point, I also didn't ask for any opinions. Show me where I asked for opinions. I asked if any other forum readers had any information about police checkpoints - some people have contributed some very interesting details.

If anyone would like to give me a lecture about the morality of riding without a license, I would be delighted to hear one. It is always a joy to read the sombre words of one's moral superiors. It allows me to aspire to one day, perhaps, emulate their magnificent lives in some small way.

[TommoPhysicist]

If anyone would like to give me a lecture about the morality of riding without a license, I would be delighted to hear one. It is always a joy to read the sombre words of one's moral superiors. It allows me to aspire to one day, perhaps, emulate their magnificent lives in some small way.

OK as you asked, it's against the law, you are uninsured, and you may injure yourself, or more importantly someone else, without being able to pay the resultant costs.

Not to do with moral superiority, all to do with responsibility and common sense.

[NamKangMan]

Do any members know the process if you actually have a valid Thai licence, but have left it in your room? Is there a seperate fine for being licenced, but not producing it upon demand? If so, how much is it?

Technically, you would think you can't be fined for being unlicenced when in fact you do hold a licence, but it's just not in your possession at the time of being pulled up.

Has any member ever had this happen to them?

[TommoPhysicist]

Do any members know the process if you actually have a valid Thai licence, but have left it in your room? Is there a seperate fine for being licenced, but not producing it upon demand? If so, how much is it?

You are required to carry license with you when driving (or photocopy?).

Fine for not producing 400bht, but you only get fined for one offense.

So if no license, no helmet, no tax, no insurance ........ still only 400bht.

[britpop]

I read on another thread today that you cannot apply for a Thai driving license (presumably applies to both cars and bikes) with a Tourist Visa. Presumably then that would be an adequate defence to BIB if stopped and all you have is a valid foreign license? `Sorry mate, Thailand not allow. Me tourist` I realise that this may not work if you are on a bike and have only a valid foreign license for cars. I realise (based on the advice in this thread) that it also leaves you exposed to denial of insurance cover

That post was incorrect, you can get a 1 year Thai (temporary) driving license on a tourist visa, but you can't get a 5 year (full) driving license in some offices.

i had a 1 year thai driving licence off the back of my AA international licence, meaning you don't have to do a full Thai driving and theory test, just some brake speed test and perriferal vision test, that i couldn't get right until a kind Thai guy poked me in the back to stop, cheers mate!!!!, needed glasses!!!, then swapped it in to my 5 year Thai licence a year later, as explained before looks nothing like me now,it's up for renewal soon