Friendly Thailand Stares Down The Barrel Of Rising Gun Crime

[anon467367354]

Language is a powerful thing. As long as the media refers to other schools as "rival" schools, there is going to be rival issues. If the media says it, it must be "true".

As long as the Internet is something to "play", that's all it's going to be used for, games.

Developed countries come from developed minds, for example take the US constitution. Those framers of the constitution were very developed people.

Sadly, a developing country in today's vernacular has all to do with money, and nothing could be more ridiculous.

A country can only stay in it's state of being developed and to continue developing if it's creating more developed minds.

Take the USA again for example, when was the last time is consciously considered creating developed minds?

Rather is has taken the path of dumbed down, uneducated, medicated, fluoridated, TV stupor induced, sedated zombie-esque monetary slaves; thus the fall of the empire. just sayin'

[DocN]

Gaddamn... what an eye-opening, jaw-dropping report THAT was! Higher than the Philippines??? I am somewhat glad I really don't get out often (or at all) here in Bangkok!

Been going out, quiet a loy in my 5 years in Bangkok. The closest I got (knowingly) to a gun, was during the red-shirt incident, when whiskey drinking soldiers in full gear were touring Patpong. That is just my 2 Satang....it doesn't mean there are not way too many armed people out there with a temper....

[PETERTHEEATER]

................Anyone and everyone can purchase a gun anywhere................

I asked for a Glock 10 in my local 7/11 and they said they don't stock firearms.

..............and they can be illegally bought without any of the legally required conditions being fullfilled.

Nothing like a contradiction to confuse the topic.

[davejones]

I think he means that if you are rich, then the law is less likely to apply to you. Just look at all the MPs caught fraudulently claiming expenses. Ordinary citizens are routinely sent to jail, but the politicians got let off. All the rich bankers who committed fraud are still out and about. Money certainly talks in the UK.

Using that generalisation then means you could probably apply it anywhere in the world.

Yes, you probably could. I think people have a tendency to see things in other countries that they fail to see in their own countries. e.g. they hear about a murder in their home town in UK/USA, but still think it's a safe place; they hear of a murder anywhere in Thailand, and they think Thailand is very unsafe. Plenty of double standards like that.

In the UK the corruption and bribery is more hidden. So to some it seems like it doesn't exist.

[pogal]

There are shootings everyday in Bangkok, some fatal, some not. The amount of guns is incredible! I would estimate 1/4 of cars have a gun, (possibly less than half legal) and 3/4 of all cars, a weapon of some sort. 3,000 baht can buy you a .38 semi (I know because I was offered it yesterday). Its so easy to buy a gun here!

I have had guns pointed at me a few times now, twice by drunken police! Shot at several times (but that was in the Red Shirt protests) and picked up untold dead bodies from shootings. Guns are displayed very often all over Bangkok, and luckily used more rarely but listening to the police radios I can easily say - daily, sometimes many times in one day, we just don't hear about it unless someone high profile is killed or reporters got a good photo, otherwise it's just part of daily life here.

As for the gun-user profiles, I would definitely say the majority that use it are actually hot headed teenagers (who possibly loose face), more rarely the rich and powerful, they normally pay someone else to do it! The only difference is the rich and powerful will probably not go to jail, while the average teenager will.

Once again I would highly recommend to everyone to avoid altercations with Thai's, this is one place where you really want to turn the other cheek but saying that, if you have to, hit and run like hell, you will never win, even if you do win.

[asiawatcher]

Caught a taxi in KL recently - driver was old, asked him his past - said he was a retired cop. No pension of course. Chatted about guns and Police killings. He said unwritten law, guns are illegal, if someone has one, shoot to kill, save the courts time. I liked that idea... But you could just see how that would work in Thailand, every cop would have to carry two guns, one for the scene of the crime and one they used to shoot.

[fstarbkk]

There are shootings everyday in Bangkok, some fatal, some not. The amount of guns is incredible! I would estimate 1/4 of cars have a gun, (possibly less than half legal) and 3/4 of all cars, a weapon of some sort. 3,000 baht can buy you a .38 semi (I know because I was offered it yesterday). Its so easy to buy a gun here!

I have had guns pointed at me a few times now, twice by drunken police! Shot at several times (but that was in the Red Shirt protests) and picked up untold dead bodies from shootings. Guns are displayed very often all over Bangkok, and luckily used more rarely but listening to the police radios I can easily say - daily, sometimes many times in one day, we just don't hear about it unless someone high profile is killed or reporters got a good photo, otherwise it's just part of daily life here.

As for the gun-user profiles, I would definitely say the majority that use it are actually hot headed teenagers (who possibly loose face), more rarely the rich and powerful, they normally pay someone else to do it! The only difference is the rich and powerful will probably not go to jail, while the average teenager will.

Once again I would highly recommend to everyone to avoid altercations with Thai's, this is one place where you really want to turn the other cheek but saying that, if you have to, hit and run like hell, you will never win, even if you do win.

"The amount of guns is incredible!"

Perhaps so, but what's really incredible are your wild guesses, or estimates as you present them. Can you actually substantiate that 25% of all cars in Bangkok contain one or more firearms? I have lived in BKK for 8 years and have never personally seen a gun in the hands (or the car) of a civilian. Not that I feel much better about seeing them in the hands of what passes for law enforcement here.

I have quite a wide and diverse circle of Thai friends, colleagues and acquaintances and not one of them has ever offered to sell or give me a gun. I find this significant, as many of my friends know that I used to shoot competitively for many years in my home country.

I do not doubt that there are many guns, both legally and illegally in circulation, as the news of frequent shootings bears this out. But this kind of sensational claims contributes nothing useful to the discussion IMHO.

[Baerboxer]

Bangkok or Baghdad all the same now with guns so freely available LOS land of shootings

Bangkok is nothing like Baghdad - to suggest it is silly.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Baerboxer

[bigbamboo]

Thailand has a self-imposed impression that it is a first world standards country.

It doesn't realise it is still a third world country.

It is 80 years behind everywhere else it likes to compare itself to.

Those reasons alone, despite the widespread corruption, that it also likes to believe is ineffectual in the long term aspects of events, are evident of a gun-toting lot that is only just beginning.

When Thailand wakes up and realises that laws are there for reasons, and laws have to be imposed, then there's a possibility of some developments which may permit Thailand to start to take control of its own real assets.

Until then, things will just deteriorate - as they have been for the last 10 years.

Sad - but true.

-mel.

80 years behind? That would put modern day Thailand around that time in America when politicians and the police were hopelessly corrupt as gun carrying gangsters ruled and the biggest criminal of them all was seen as a huge public hero even though he was forever dodging court cases and trials and despite being filthy rich found ways to avoid paying taxes.

Could never happen here.

[Baerboxer]

There are shootings everyday in Bangkok, some fatal, some not. The amount of guns is incredible! I would estimate 1/4 of cars have a gun, (possibly less than half legal) and 3/4 of all cars, a weapon of some sort. 3,000 baht can buy you a .38 semi (I know because I was offered it yesterday). Its so easy to buy a gun here!

I have had guns pointed at me a few times now, twice by drunken police! Shot at several times (but that was in the Red Shirt protests) and picked up untold dead bodies from shootings. Guns are displayed very often all over Bangkok, and luckily used more rarely but listening to the police radios I can easily say - daily, sometimes many times in one day, we just don't hear about it unless someone high profile is killed or reporters got a good photo, otherwise it's just part of daily life here.

As for the gun-user profiles, I would definitely say the majority that use it are actually hot headed teenagers (who possibly loose face), more rarely the rich and powerful, they normally pay someone else to do it! The only difference is the rich and powerful will probably not go to jail, while the average teenager will.

Once again I would highly recommend to everyone to avoid altercations with Thai's, this is one place where you really want to turn the other cheek but saying that, if you have to, hit and run like hell, you will never win, even if you do win.

"The amount of guns is incredible!"

Perhaps so, but what's really incredible are your wild guesses, or estimates as you present them. Can you actually substantiate that 25% of all cars in Bangkok contain one or more firearms? I have lived in BKK for 8 years and have never personally seen a gun in the hands (or the car) of a civilian. Not that I feel much better about seeing them in the hands of what passes for law enforcement here.

I have quite a wide and diverse circle of Thai friends, colleagues and acquaintances and not one of them has ever offered to sell or give me a gun. I find this significant, as many of my friends know that I used to shoot competitively for many years in my home country.

I do not doubt that there are many guns, both legally and illegally in circulation, as the news of frequent shootings bears this out. But this kind of sensational claims contributes nothing useful to the discussion IMHO.

I agree fstarrbkk. In 20 years I've seen 2 guns here apart from poilce officers and servicemen. These were both shotguns owned by wealthy Thai business owners who kept them at their homes.

I would be very surprised if Thailand has more guns than the Philipinnes. Many Filipinos I know keep a pistol in their car and the police there make the BiB look proficient. To suggest 25% of cars contain guns here, and 75% some kind of weapon is an unbased opinion; as is the suggestion that Bangkok is the venue for daily "wild west" shootouts. I've never been offered a gun or seen anykind of weapon in the numerous cars I've had lifts in here.

I still think Bangkok is safer than many UK cities I can think of.

[Bender]

Just wait one week and the thai apologist will start again to claims that thailand is crime-free, safer than most european country,

thai people are innocent people that will never harm a fly and bla bla bla.

[Scott]

Off topic posts deleted. The topic is about Thailand and guns. Drawing comparisons with other countries is quite acceptable, but comments exclusively about guns in other countries is off-topic.

[LuckyLew]

I think this one starts at the top

Was not long ago I was reading about a high ranking

official killing people in a restaurant when his oozy

accidentally went off

[Lancelot]

It can't help to see guns in use every night in peak viewing on the soap operas. Every one, without exception. And these are supposed to be about ordinary, albeit hi-so, families.

But thanks goodness cigarette smoking is blurred out

[Thai at Heart]

4 times more than the Philippines?

Wow

They may have 4 times more guns but the PI is way ahead on murder rates. Google the statistics and you will see.

I just thought it was an amazing statistic because my experience of the Philippines was that just about everyone has a gun, so to have 4 times more would be an amazing amount of guns

[technologybytes]

It may be a little known fact, but statistically Thailand has the worlds highest rate of "homicide by firearm". Much higher even than the USA.

Interesting how statistics work, you are 1044 times less likely to have your car stolen in Thailand than in the UK, but 114 times more likely to be killed by firearm!

Edited October 22, 2012 by technologybytes

[Jimjim]

4 times more than the Philippines?

Wow

They may have 4 times more guns but the PI is way ahead on murder rates. Google the statistics and you will see.

Thailand 4.8 homicides per 100K people, and Philippines 5.4 per 100K people. I wouldn't really call that "way ahead" but PI is slightly more, yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

I think there may be an uptick in violent crime in many places as the world recession drags on. Just one guess as to why this may be though Thailand has it's own unique problems, of course.

In the U.S.A. recent stats suggested a 20% increase in violent crime just in the last year.

[Jimjim]

It may be a little known fact, but statistically Thailand has the worlds highest rate of "homicide by firearm". Much higher even than the USA.

Interesting how statistics work, you are 1044 times less likely to have your car stolen in Thailand than in the UK, but 114 times more likely to be killed by firearm!

Sorry I think you're wrong. I believe those stats come from that site Nation Master and have been shown many times to appear completely unreliable. Not to mention outdated. The stats that have been cited here many times from that site show Thailand having a way, way high murder by firearm rate that's higher than the actual murder rate in Thailand. Now how can you have more murders by firearm than actual murders? Cite your source. See my previous post for a more accurate murder rate.

[Renbe]

A gun in hand makes a coward think he is a hero. Way too many cowards in this country.

Then there must be an amazing amount of cowards in the US, where gun ownership is much higher than in Thailand

[Renbe]

I have been living in Thailand for several years now, and still find it a very relaxed country. Of course there are problems, and of course there is crime, and of course there are guns, but which country does not have any of those? Finland, Germany, Holland, all have experienced mass-killings by crazed legal gun owners, not to mention the US where mass-killings happen weekly. I have not heard that Thai gun owners suddenly go on a rampage and shoot dozens of people in schools or shopping malls.

No country is "better" than the other. Different yes, but better never.

I presume that most posters here are expats that prefer to live in Thailand instead of in their home country. Then why so many derogatory and sarcastic comments?

[marshbags]

................Anyone and everyone can purchase a gun anywhere................

I asked for a Glock 10 in my local 7/11 and they said they don't stock firearms.

..............and they can be illegally bought without any of the legally required conditions being fullfilled.

Nothing like a contradiction to confuse the topic.

" Anyone and everyone can purchase a gun anywhere and they can be illegally bought without any of the legally required conditions being fullfilled "

One compliments the other IMHO and the point I make is that there is no requirement as per the established law and makes it very easy therefore to purchase a gun.

What,s the point of having laws if they do not serve their purpose.

This for me is meaningless if it is not enforced.

Sure they can by easily purchased via unscrupulous dealers ect. ect. but surely stricter control of distribution should be the desired objective and detrimental penalties enforced BIG TIME when the laws are broken / ignored.

The most upsetting thing about the students for me is the inability of the educational authorities and the parents who are seemingly letting situations develop into the horrific scenarios that are becoming, " like a badge of honour " to the various institutions they represent.

How many parents on this thread would not know / or would not care what their siblings are getting up to especially with them being well pubicised with a predictable outcome ?

Zero I would like to think...Make that I know it would be Zero

Most / all would surely intervene and make sure they are well out of it all, being responsible and loving parents.

AS for the sources of were the guns are coming from, some parents knowingly leave them in places where it is all to easy for there children to access them....why in hells name do they do this ????

Self policing if nothing else can become effective in preventing these tragic and reocurring scenarios getting out of hand before the situations become life threatening.

marshbags and

s

Edited October 22, 2012 by marshbags

[Chads]

Remember that MP who brought a "uzi" to a dinner table and "accidentally" killed his wife? I mean, if that's the kind of examples politicians set then what do you expect kids to do?

Edited October 22, 2012 by Chads

[Scott]

Remember that MP who brought a "uzi" to a dinner table and "accidentally" killed his wife? I mean, if that's the kind of examples politicians set then what do you expect kids to do?

There is a thread on this topic:

Immunity For Thai Senator Who Shot Ex-Wife

[petedk]

The MP has been given diplomatic immunity.

In another thread a Russian tourist was stabbed five times during a robbery. Would she have been shot five times if the guys had a gun? I guess it won't be long before guns replace knives as weapons.

[Scott]

My guess is that knives will continue to be very popular in petty crimes. Knives don't make noise; guns do. Thailand is a little too crowded and too warm, with people outside and windows open to be shooting guns without being noticed.

[Chads]

My guess is that knives will continue to be very popular in petty crimes. Knives don't make noise; guns do. Thailand is a little too crowded and too warm, with people outside and windows open to be shooting guns without being noticed.

That theory doesn't hold true in the case of South America but I agree that it may not become the case in Thailand.

[transam]

My guess is that knives will continue to be very popular in petty crimes. Knives don't make noise; guns do. Thailand is a little too crowded and too warm, with people outside and windows open to be shooting guns without being noticed.

A pistol is the ultimate ''you back off'' weapon.

If you want quiet, silencers are easy, but you need a deep pocket to conceal it.

[mania]

Actually this study has Thailand 3rd in the world only behind South Africa & Columbia

Murders with firearms (most recent) by country

That said I still feel quite safe in Thailand but I lead a pretty quiet life here.

Edit: Sorry I also see this study is older already (2002)

the recent comments on it made me think it was recently done

Edited October 22, 2012 by mania

[MEL1]

My guess is that knives will continue to be very popular in petty crimes. Knives don't make noise; guns do. Thailand is a little too crowded and too warm, with people outside and windows open to be shooting guns without being noticed.

A pistol is the ultimate ''you back off'' weapon.

If you want quiet, silencers are easy, but you need a deep pocket to conceal it.

I just take it out of my deep pocket, and they take one look and utter,'Jeez, I aint messing with that!' , and indeed they back off!- And that's just to the bar girls...

-mel.

[thatswhatuthought]

The fact that many people on Thai Visa have been here for 15-20 years and say they have seen very few or no guns is no surprise. If all you do is meet up with your workers/friends, stay at home alone or with your wife/family and go out to the local bars, restaurants, shops, malls etc., you will probably see a gun once in a great while. If you get out in to the Thai community and integrate with the Thai community you would probably be amassed with what you see and experience. (if and when they attempt to accept you). Speaking Thai goes a long way (if it’s used in the right way). If you have been here for 5+ years you should be able to communicate in basic Thai. There are very few reasonable excuses for you not to. Most people don't except or like it when foreigners come to "their" country and don't learn the lingo. Why should it be different here. We are all foreigners. This is not "our" country. You have to be able to adapt, accept or compromise with the way it is here. That or you can live here feeling ostracized. Don't think that you'll be 100% accepted into the society, you should know better by now. Respecting culture can go a long way.

"We're not in kansas anymore."

Edited October 22, 2012 by metisdead
: Tiny font re-sized to normal.