Establishing Paternity, Citizenship And Child Support

[Valjean]

I have an acquaintance, a young Thai woman (early 20’s), who now has a baby as a result of a relationship with an American (50+). Now that this has come to pass he’s not interested in a future together however for now he is helping with support. She employed in a good job and has family helping. He’s a professional working in Bangkok.

She is interested in registering the baby at the US Embassy so it has US Citizenship. The father is stalling on this. Does anyone have any experience in how she can do this without his cooperation or how she can force the issue? My sense from her is that he’s a fairly reasonable guy who’s not running a hundred miles an hour in the opposite direction however he is slowly backing away and I suspect time is not her friend in this particular case.

Also was wondering about child support. In the US he is responsible for supporting that child for 18 years. Sure there are many “deadbeat dads” but the law is not on their side and if a guy has a job and assets and mom stays on top of it he has to pay right down to having the government deduct the money from his paycheck if he won’t. Anyone have an experience how this US law and process plays out in this case?

Are there groups or people who help in these situations? Advice?

Lastly I don’t want to pass any judgment on these individuals and how they got to this situation. We all make mistakes. Only trying to get some advice to pass on to her regarding and options with respect to he rights in this matter.

Thanks all

[jing jing]

I've just gone thru the process of getting a US passport for my son. My opinion is that it will be extremely difficult - practically impossible - for the child's Thai mother to get US citizenship for the baby without the cooperation of the US citizen father. The reason is that the US citizen (in this case the father) is the key person in the process -- he needs to produce evidence of citizenship and of having resided in the USA for a certain period of time (which I don't recall exactly). Then, in the absence of a legal (registered) marriage, there needs to be evidence establishing the relationship between mother and father which would persuade the consular officer that the US citizen is indeed the father. If the evidence isn't sufficiently persuasive they may order a DNA test.

Part of the paperwork required to obtain US citizenship for the child if the mother and father aren't legally married is for the US citizen father to sign an affidavit promising to support the child until the age of 18... this could well be the sticking point for the father in the situation you described. If the couple is not legally married then he is not required, either in Thailand or in the USA, to provide child support.

Bottom line is that without the US citizen dad's willingness to cooperate and provide all the required documentation, I believe there is no chance that the embassy will grant US citizenship to the child.

[GuestHouse]

She could could file for child support in a Thai court, claiming him as the father, the court can then demand a DNA test, as has happened with a number of Thais in the past few years.

Once she has proof of parternity, she can then claim her and her child's rights.

Delivering the court summons to his office address might be an idea too, might sort of let him know the game is up.

Edited February 11, 2006 by GuestHouse

[Valjean]

She could could file for child support in a Thai court, claiming him as the father, the court can then demand a DNA test, as has happened with a number of Thais in the past few years.

Once she has proof of parternity, she can then claim her and her child's rights.

Delivering the court summons to his office address might be an idea too, might sort of let him know the game is up.

I can't say what her stomach is for getting tough but this was one angle I was wondering about. He's got a good job with international org so suspect he doesn't want to have this look bad on him. I assume if she employed an attorney they could drive this process? Being American we have a well-honed knowledge how to bring on the pit bull attorneys and likewise we know if someone does the same to us what a bad experience that can be. If you know the other side isn't bluffing and has a case and you have anything to lose good chance you sit up and listen. (unless you are prepared to spend even more than your opponent for an even bigger and meaner pit bull and oh yes isn't that a great system...)

Thanks for the suggestion

[GuestHouse]

I suggested challenging with a court summons set to his office because I have witnessed first hand this working. (Not a parternity case, but someone summond over a debt).

She only need present herself as the wronged Thai girl, dressed respectfully, behaving respectfully etc and the court will eat him for breakfast.

Most expats I know in Thailand are absolutely dreading the day they have to go home, an expat in a well paid job is a sitting duck.

He'll be forced to decide between, owning up and paying up or putting his positon in Thailand at risk.... it's a no brainer.

And it need not cost lots of money, indeed, not having lots of money and portraying herself as the poor wronged Thai being trampled on by a rich Farang would almost certainly work in her favour.

She should specifically seek a DNA test as the court has the power to demand the test and it places the guy in a position where, if he claims he is not the father he has no reasonable grounds not to take the test.

[torgate]

Sorry to slightly sidetrack and I hopeyour issues are resolved Valjean

What about payments for child support related to australia - thai child welfare regulations 2005 - 2006. Can anyone supply info related to above. I've tracked and found the guys address, phone number for a woman here in thailand. the guy has a twelve year old daughter and will not have any support or welfare issue towards here. Contacted lawyer in aus whose's only concern was "how much money yer got mate". I indicated finance would be direct thought myself if case was certain....no reply from ignorant lawyer since last year. Thai lawyers seem to lack knowledge on this issue, so maybe someone could pass on info related to claim via thailand on this guy from same experience. She has all documents proving he is daddy including marriage dates and flight times before birth of child.....

One thing I caught on the net was that, thailand could contact aus and direct the guy to pay 1000 a month. can this be confirmed and would it be back due....

Any help would be appreciated to finalize things for the lady concerned....

[Farma]

........One thing I caught on the net was that, thailand could contact aus and direct the guy to pay 1000 a month. can this be confirmed and would it be back due....

Any help would be appreciated to finalize things for the lady concerned....

I recently asked a Thai legal counsel questions about this same issue. His reply "Thai courts have no legal authority to rule a foreigner pays child or wife support".

Maybe someone can advise differently.

[Chang_paarp]

Sorry to slightly sidetrack and I hopeyour issues are resolved Valjean

What about payments for child support related to australia - thai child welfare regulations 2005 - 2006. Can anyone supply info related to above. I've tracked and found the guys address, phone number for a woman here in thailand. the guy has a twelve year old daughter and will not have any support or welfare issue towards here. Contacted lawyer in aus whose's only concern was "how much money yer got mate". I indicated finance would be direct thought myself if case was certain....no reply from ignorant lawyer since last year. Thai lawyers seem to lack knowledge on this issue, so maybe someone could pass on info related to claim via thailand on this guy from same experience. She has all documents proving he is daddy including marriage dates and flight times before birth of child.....

One thing I caught on the net was that, thailand could contact aus and direct the guy to pay 1000 a month. can this be confirmed and would it be back due....

Any help would be appreciated to finalize things for the lady concerned....

The simpest thing to do here is to apply to the Child Support Agency direct. As much as I hate the @#$$#%# CSA, once they have their claws in you, they never let go. The documents, or authorised copies will have to be submitted. If ther is a similar agency in Thailand they can do the aplication otherwise have the lady apply direct, or start divorce procedings in Au. The CSA will colect 19% (for 1 child) of the gentlemans pre-tax income after $13K if he is single or $20K if he is married. They will backdate the collection owed to the time the couple seperated if they feel like it and add interest. The CSA has the power to seize bank accounts, tax refunds and garnishee wages.

To find out more www.csa.gov.au

[torgate]

Thanks for info you posted..

I contacted Australian csa and was brickwalled due to child not having citizenship of aus. Also attempted court ruling within treaty regulations and child laws between two counties by use of aus court, again brickwalled due to lack of knowledge on there part along with "try this law firm" the "how much yer got mate" one. anyway, seems that a treaty exists but is not practiced within thailand due to lawyers lack of interest or lack of understanding the contents of a legal document.

Read this sometime ago, may interest others out there ! yes, another stickman thread but with the authors mail address.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/reader/reader513.html

At present the thai embassy aus has agreed to undertake action towards the guy, documents of proof divorce, childs fathers name, letters he sent certs etc, all given to embassy as requested from them....will inform if issue is useful to anyone else

Edited February 15, 2006 by torgate

[Valjean]

I suggested challenging with a court summons set to his office because I have witnessed first hand this working. (Not a parternity case, but someone summond over a debt).

She only need present herself as the wronged Thai girl, dressed respectfully, behaving respectfully etc and the court will eat him for breakfast.

Most expats I know in Thailand are absolutely dreading the day they have to go home, an expat in a well paid job is a sitting duck.

He'll be forced to decide between, owning up and paying up or putting his positon in Thailand at risk.... it's a no brainer.

And it need not cost lots of money, indeed, not having lots of money and portraying herself as the poor wronged Thai being trampled on by a rich Farang would almost certainly work in her favour.

She should specifically seek a DNA test as the court has the power to demand the test and it places the guy in a position where, if he claims he is not the father he has no reasonable grounds not to take the test.

Had a chat with her on the phone last night about this. Talked about "forget it" or "fight it". There are upsides and downsides to both. For her she's inclined to forget it and just get on with life, however for her son, and his 100% legit claim to US citizenship she's inclined to fight. So.... I'm inclinded to think the above is the plan and has some good common sense. Does anyone know of any a Thai lawyer that deals in such things?

Assume also that step 1 is establishing paternity and citizenship is step one to making any claim in the US. I know there are attorneys there