Pitak Siam Rally Has Ended But Dissenting Voice Must Be Heard: Editorial

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Rally has ended but dissenting voice must be heard

The Nation

Govt must address concerns regarding its policy mismanagement to address public grievances

BANGKOK: -- The anti-government rally organised by retired General Boonlert Kaewprasit concluded on Saturday evening with a small number of people injured. In spite of concerns about possible escalation of violence after the police started using tear gas to disperse protesters early in the morning, the event ended on a peaceful note. Organisers announced an end to the rally saying they had honoured their pledge to call it a day if the turnout of protesters was lower than expectation.

The conclusion of the event overall is good news as there were concerns and worries about the possible eruption of violence at any time all day. The untimely use of tear gas could have been the trigger to provoke the protesters. The red-shirt leaders, representing the other political camp, had already called on their supporters to stay on alert and said they were ready for a confrontation with the anti-government group if an attempt was made to overthrow the Yingluck government.

Overall, however, the police officers and protesters managed to exercise restraint. The protesters failed to topple the Yingluck government as they had vowed to do, but their message could not be ignored. The turnout of protesters, albeit smaller than what the organisers had hoped for, also points to a growing dissent.

First of all, while many political gurus had commented that the allegations made by the rally organisers against the government were not fresh enough to draw a massive number of protesters to join the protest, it is quite interesting that no one dismissed the allegations as untrue. The allegations that the Yingluck government had mismanaged policy or was being a "puppet" of Thaksin Shinawatra have been known for some time. But they were simply not fresh enough to serve as the tipping point to draw the crowds to the rally.

In short, the simmering discontent against the Yingluck government over policy mismanagement and its role in regard to Thaksin was still there. That's the reason why the rally organisers, regardless of their inexperience in organising large crowds, could easily draw several tens of thousands of people to the street. These people wanted to vent their discontent against the government.

The incidents prior to the rally on Saturday showed the government's attempt to silence people who wanted to express opposing views. The critics of the government's rice-pledging policy were unfairly dismissed by Pheu Thai Party politicians as the "elites" who took advantage of "poor farmers". Last week, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung intimidated a reporter who raised a legitimate question over the Saturday rally. And let's face it, Yingluck announced the Internal Security Act and mobilised a massive number of police officers to deal with protesters before the rally to discourage people from joining the campaign.

Unanswered questions

The rally has ended but the allegations and questions of the protesters have not been answered. Now, it is up to Parliament members to prove to the public that the parliamentary system can represent the concerns of all people. The politicians must bring the public concerns to the House and Prime Minister Yingluck must address questions such as alleged corruption in the rice deal, to show her leadership and prove that she is not a puppet of her brother as alleged. The timing of the House session represents the best opportunity for Yingluck and her government to prove the critics wrong.

The suspense that came with the Saturday protest may end sooner than many had anticipated, but that should be welcome. The organisers cited the safety and well being of the protesters as the reason to end the rally, which is the most important element that rally organisers have to be responsible for. Once the leaders cannot guarantee their supporters' safety, they have to make a decision in the best interest of the rally participants. After all, no rally organisers can avoid the responsibility for the lives of their supporters if they lead them into a dangerous situation.

Saturday evening concluded with high emotion. Many of the rain-soaked protesters did not want to give up because they wanted to press their concerns. Pitak Siam Group may not appear in the headlines for a while. But the Saturday crowds came out not because of the charisma of the mob leader but to make their voices heard. And their dissenting voice is still out there.

-- The Nation 2012-11- 26

[DP25]

After all, no rally organisers can avoid the responsibility for the lives of their supporters if they lead them into a dangerous situation.

Of course they can, Thaksin and his red shirts have done an excellent job of this. Have your thugs hide behind women and children while shooting at soldiers and civilians alike, all while launching grenades at the skytrain and crowds of counter protesters, and then when the authorities step in to stop your bloodshed blame everything on them. Fortunately the organizers of this rally are not as ruthlessly bloodthirsty as the red shirt leadership nor as willing to sacrifice the lives of common people. It would have been very easy to pull the same stunts that the red mob did, and then try to blame the violence on the government.

[asiawatcher]

I would have staged the rally after the censure motion. Then the allegations would be on the table for all to hear and see. First day provided some startling accusations and the more this compounds the more chance a rally of dissent would work. But with the police acting as the Shinawatra private security, scenes such as yesterday, sadly will deter a lot of would be challengers. There is no doubt the Shiawatra clan is in power and intends to remain there by fair means or foul.

[Thai at Heart]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

[ridkun]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

Yeah opposition Democrat represents 11M people and PTP are still not listening. Maybe we need 30M or something?

[Chrisswe]

A voice of disaster !!!

[Thai at Heart]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

Yeah opposition Democrat represents 11M people and PTP are still not listening. Maybe we need 30M or something?

are the conservatives listening to Labour in the UK? Has anyone really listened to the wall street protesters?

That's politics. If you want a street rally group to be listened to, you need to generate a broad spectrum of people on all political sides nationwide and have a message a bit better than calling for a coup.

Yes they are corrupt, so prove it, take it to the courts. they got Capone on his taxes within the system. Find a way within the system to succeed. You reckon Thai people think boonlert was acting in a completely altruistic fashion?

I don't. Same problem with the pad. They are not protesting ALL corruption, just the side they don't like. There is barely one person in a position of power in Thailand with a slate clean enough to take the moral high ground.

[nurofiend]

are the conservatives listening to Labour in the UK? Has anyone really listened to the wall street protesters?

bang on the money,

lots of posters harping on about others lack of understanding of democracy lately while seemingly ignoring the realities of it.

[jayboy]

Saw this from Ratchaprasong News on Facebook - directly relevant to topic:

"Whisper: Amart was upset, our intel said 300 million baht were spent on saturday, Boonlert was right to call it off, he said on Channel 3 this morning that he has to call it off. He felt bad many were hurt, and there might have been M79 firing later. Umm! Wonder if he knew something. He also resigned from his position as Pre-Cadet Class President."

Not sure I understand.Does anybody here?

[HeavyDrinker]

They should just have a massive game of "British Bulldog" and the winner takes all and be done with it.

[Buchholz]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

Regarding their coup issue, you're probably right.

Regarding their other concerns, I would venture it's significantly more than 50K.

The Pitak Siam (Protect Thailand) group held a rally denouncing the current government for alleged widespread corruption and incompetence.

http://www.demotix.com/news/1627372/thousands-support-pitak-siam-groups-anti-government-rally-bangkok#media-1627354

[Buchholz]

I would have staged the rally after the censure motion. Then the allegations would be on the table for all to hear and see. First day provided some startling accusations and the more this compounds the more chance a rally of dissent would work. But with the police acting as the Shinawatra private security, scenes such as yesterday, sadly will deter a lot of would be challengers. There is no doubt the Shinawatra clan is in power and intends to remain there by fair means or foul.

In light of what has come out in the censure and how it directly addresses their other concerns as posted above, you're absolutely right about having it after the censure debate is finished.

Their failure was in not making those concerns paramount in their focus.

That and drop the coup issue entirely as that ensured their failure whether before or after the censure debate.

.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

Regarding their coup issue, you're probably right.

Regarding their other concerns, I would venture it's significantly more than 50K.

The Pitak Siam (Protect Thailand) group held a rally denouncing the current government for alleged widespread corruption and incompetence.

http://www.demotix.c...k#media-1627354

No the Pitak Siam, PAD, yellowshirt constituency is pretty much the same united by their hatred of democracy.I agree that a only a minority wanted a coup now, the point being that most in the reactionary camp understand at last that this would be ineffective or counterproductive.If they thought it could accomplish their aims they would be as slavering supporters as any.On most other issues as you suggest they are in full agreement.

[Thai at Heart]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

Regarding their coup issue, you're probably right.

Regarding their other concerns, I would venture it's significantly more than 50K.

The Pitak Siam (Protect Thailand) group held a rally denouncing the current government for alleged widespread corruption and incompetence.

http://www.demotix.com/news/1627372/thousands-support-pitak-siam-groups-anti-government-rally-bangkok#media-1627354

Venturing is venturing.

I look forward to them protesting any corruption in future democrat, governments also. That also goes for civil service corruption, army corruption, police corruption, or business corruption.

That's the problem. No one protests against ALL corruption, for the good of the WHOLE country. That should appeal to a fairly broad spectrum.

Did he ask the army to bring ang GT 2000s over to prove his people weren't carrying any explosives or bullets?

Edited November 26, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[metisdead]

A post of thinly veiled speculation toward the King has been removed as well as the replies.

[Buchholz]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

Regarding their coup issue, you're probably right.

Regarding their other concerns, I would venture it's significantly more than 50K.

The Pitak Siam (Protect Thailand) group held a rally denouncing the current government for alleged widespread corruption and incompetence.

http://www.demotix.c...k#media-1627354

Venturing is venturing.

I look forward to them protesting any corruption in future democrat, governments also. That also goes for civil service corruption, army corruption, police corruption, or business corruption.

That's the problem. No one protests against ALL corruption, for the good of the WHOLE country. That should appeal to a fairly broad spectrum.

Did he ask the army to bring ang GT 2000s over to prove his people weren't carrying any explosives or bullets?

Protest groups and NGO's specialize, even in the West. Whether it's protesting Canadians clubbing baby seals or protesting against the G8 nations at their Summits, there's hundreds of protests groups that don't tackle all aspects/issues, eg. corruption.

Also, corruption was but one of their concerns, incompetence, being another. They chose to focus instead on the coup issue. That became their "specialty" as it were, which resulted in their other concerns being drowned out and led to their demise.

Thailand is still in its infancy regarding protests. Hopefully, those that were involved with PS because of these other concerns will want to move on to focus on them. If those individuals can have the courage to move on with that separately, it would be a very positive step forward.

Being involved with trying to take on corruption is no easy task in this country. It can get you killed, like Shipping Moo. It's going to take quite some time to combat it. Taking on one administration's corruption at a time is a step forward before reaching the ultimate goal of obtaining sufficient organizational strength necessary to combat all sources of corruption.

.

[Thai at Heart]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

Regarding their coup issue, you're probably right.

Regarding their other concerns, I would venture it's significantly more than 50K.

The Pitak Siam (Protect Thailand) group held a rally denouncing the current government for alleged widespread corruption and incompetence.

http://www.demotix.c...k#media-1627354

Venturing is venturing.

I look forward to them protesting any corruption in future democrat, governments also. That also goes for civil service corruption, army corruption, police corruption, or business corruption.

That's the problem. No one protests against ALL corruption, for the good of the WHOLE country. That should appeal to a fairly broad spectrum.

Did he ask the army to bring ang GT 2000s over to prove his people weren't carrying any explosives or bullets?

Protest groups and NGO's specialize, even in the West. Whether it's protesting Canadians clubbing baby seals or protesting against the G8 nations at their Summits, there's hundreds of protests groups that don't tackle all aspects/issues, eg. corruption.

Also, corruption was but one of their concerns, incompetence, being another. They chose to focus instead on the coup issue. That became their "specialty" as it were, which resulted in their other concerns being drowned out and led to their demise.

Thailand is still in its infancy regarding protests. Hopefully, those that were involved with PS because of these other concerns will want to move on to focus on them. If those individuals can have the courage to move on with that separately, it would be a very positive step forward.

Being involved with trying to take on corruption is no easy task in this country. It can get you killed, like Shipping Moo. It's going to take quite some time to combat it. Taking on one administration's corruption at a time is a step forward before reaching the ultimate goal of obtaining sufficient organizational strength necessary to combat all sources of corruption.

.

I don't disagree at all, maybe the weekend was a baby step to moving forward a bit in developing something a tiny bit better in terms of democracy in Thailand. I would whole heartedly get behind the "Fight corruption" NGO. Problem is, Chuwit is the poster boy. LOL

There are a myriad things that can appeal to a very large amount of people, obviously, demanding a coup doesn't quite catch the imagination at the moment.

[jonclark]

are the conservatives listening to Labour in the UK? Has anyone really listened to the wall street protesters?

bang on the money,

lots of posters harping on about others lack of understanding of democracy lately while seemingly ignoring the realities of it.

I think you'll find they actually do listen and communicate effectively with each other, Conservative, labour and Lib Dem MPS sit on a number of very influential committees (Pension and work select committee as an example) etc, to ensure the transparency of budgets, rules being followed etc. These committees report directly to parliament, not to government.

You certainly don't get the conservatives using their positions to install friends and relatives in high ranking government positions, silencing critics, or trying to use their political position and influence to publicly discredit the leader of the opposition.

Which is what politics is in Thailand be it Dem PTP or another at the helm

[Thai at Heart]

are the conservatives listening to Labour in the UK? Has anyone really listened to the wall street protesters?

bang on the money,

lots of posters harping on about others lack of understanding of democracy lately while seemingly ignoring the realities of it.

I think you'll find they actually do listen and communicate effectively with each other, Conservative, labour and Lib Dem MPS sit on a number of very influential committees (Pension and work select committee as an example) etc, to ensure the transparency of budgets, rules being followed etc. These committees report directly to parliament, not to government.

You certainly don't get the conservatives using their positions to install friends and relatives in high ranking government positions, silencing critics, or trying to use their political position and influence to publicly discredit the leader of the opposition.

Which is what politics is in Thailand be it Dem PTP or another at the helm

Well the ability to appoint is part of the system here that all sides have availed themselves of in their time.

Parliament can change that rule any time they like.

[HeavyDrinker]

...or a pillow fight....

[Artisi]

Or a p_ssing competition, although the PM may be at a disadvantage.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Artisi

[Curt1591]

Rally has ended but dissenting voice must be heard

Yes; that voice is called the "opposition" party and they have done little else but dissent!

[Rancid]

Well of course there is a puppet master behind PT and no extra points for being able to name him. Now let's see how much everyone pays attention to the details and read outside the Thai press as opposed to sucking up the Nation press releases. Who are the puppet masters behind the Democrats?

[surangw]

How much were they paying for demonstrators this time around?

[whybother]

How much were they paying for demonstrators this time around?

There were rumours (OK, a red shirt leader said) that red shirts were being offered 1000 baht to attend. Obviously, that wasn't enough.

[nurofiend]

are the conservatives listening to Labour in the UK? Has anyone really listened to the wall street protesters?

bang on the money,

lots of posters harping on about others lack of understanding of democracy lately while seemingly ignoring the realities of it.

I think you'll find they actually do listen and communicate effectively with each other, Conservative, labour and Lib Dem MPS sit on a number of very influential committees (Pension and work select committee as an example) etc, to ensure the transparency of budgets, rules being followed etc. These committees report directly to parliament, not to government.

You certainly don't get the conservatives using their positions to install friends and relatives in high ranking government positions, silencing critics, or trying to use their political position and influence to publicly discredit the leader of the opposition.

Which is what politics is in Thailand be it Dem PTP or another at the helm

I think you'll find they actually do listen and communicate effectively with each other

that's debatable but anyway,

my point wasn't to say that thai democracy is perfect obviously, but who's is? certainly not america's or the uk, that's the reality.

i was making the point that we often see posters accused of thinking democracy ends after an election and 'not understanding' just because they point out that ptp were democratically elected, it's ridiculous.

[tominbkk]

Their voice must be heard? They need to speak up a bit louder if they want this government to listen.

They apparently represent less than 50k people.

Never mind the other 100,000 or so that were blocked by police from attending.

[Mosha]

Who is Sai Ai? My wife said on the Thai Channels was a claim that Thaksin paid a Sai Ai to call off the protest.

[whybother]

Who is Sai Ai? My wife said on the Thai Channels was a claim that Thaksin paid a Sai Ai to call off the protest.

He is the leader of Pitak Siam. Seh Ai ... aka Boonlert.

[Moruya]

Dissenting voices can't be heard in Parliament. The opposition arrange a censure debate and the PM ignored all questions and read a large font script saying how good she is!