REFERENDUM

Pheu Thai chooses to go ahead

Jeerapong Prasertpolkrung,

Pimnara Pradubwit

The Nation

File photo : Chalerm

Ruling party to seek 24 million votes; bowing to Thaksin, Abhisit says

BANGKOK: -- The ruling Pheu Thai Party will go ahead with its plan for a referendum on amending the Constitution after concluding it is feasible, after Deputy PM Chalerm Yoobamrung and others softened their opposition.

"If the referendum is approved there will be less problems ahead because it's tantamount to people approving it and no one can oppose it. It's like finishing a task that will have long-lasting result," a Pheu Thai source said.

The party was confident more than half of eligible voters would come to vote, the source said.

"[We] will use all the state's mechanisms at our disposal, be it the Interior Ministry, the military and other state agencies to help cajole the public to vote. MPs will also come up with targets of how many people they get to come out to vote," said the source.

However, he added that less than half of the electorate in the South, which is a stronghold of the opposition Democrat Party, were likely to vote. But this would be compensated by more voters and a larger turnout in the Northeast, which has 35 per cent of the total electorate nationwide, while the South had only 15 per cent.

Another Pheu Thai source said red-shirt co-leader Jatuporn Promphan had an understanding with ousted and fugitive former premier and would no longer oppose the referendum. He would play a key role to drum up support for amending the charter.

Deputy Premier Chalerm, meanwhile, acknowledged Thaksin's influence in enabling Pheu Thai to win the election, adding that he believed Thaksin could help ensure 24 million votes to back the referendum.

On Saturday, Thaksin phoned red shirts gathered at Bonanza in Nakhon Ratchasima, saying it would not be difficult to get 24 million votes.

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva accused Thaksin of speaking half-truths because changing the charter would help the fugitive ex-PM. He said he had tried to convince his opponents not to amend anything that might benefit Thaksin or alter the judiciary, monarchy institutions and independent agencies - but to no avail.

"I believe that in the end, the government and the prime minister will follow the recommendation of Thaksin but when there are problems they will have to be responsible themselves as Thaksin will be not responsible for what he suggested," Abhisit said.

The government's committee in charge of holding a referendum had its first meeting yesterday. Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana said it agreed to have the Interior Ministry be in charge of holding public forums and cooperating with state agencies related to organising the ballot. Meanwhile, the meeting would consult with the Election Commission on legal issues.

Former caretaker Thai Rak Thai Party leader Chaturon Chaisang proposed that parliament move to vote on the third reading of the charter amendment bill, without holding a referendum, then just solve problems later.

He said it did not matter if a referendum was conducted or not, changing the charter would face obstacles. The requirement that at least half of eligible voters come to lodge a ballot to make it valid was different from the referendum which endorsed the 2007 charter; that required only a majority.

Chaturon said amending the charter article-by-article would take too much time.

Bhum Jai Thai party-list MP Chai Chidchob said yesterday he supported amending certain articles, especially Article 237. It relates to party dissolution, and says election fraud by a party executive can cause a party to be dissolved and all executives to lose their voting rights for five years.

-- The Nation 2012-12-25

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Misleading headline, should be

"Thaksin to seek 24 million votes, Pheu Thai to act as usual"

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

You seem to be a bit sensitive about the 'bowing to Thaksin' statement.

But Thaksin thinks, Pheua Thai does.

Pheua Thai is run by one family- Thaksin , Yaowapa, and Yingluk.

2 days ago Chalerm and Jatupon were against the referendum, now suddenly they support it- after the world's greatest liar said he was in favour.

True democracy Pheua Thai style, Thaksin decides everything!

Abhisit's defence of the coup constitution shows his real allegiances. Supporting that document is selfish and shameful.

Abhisit's defence of the coup constitution shows his real allegiances. Supporting that document is selfish and shameful.

What it shows is that Abhisit doesn't want Thaksin's crimes white washed.

Abhisit is correct with his judgement of the convicted fugitive criminal. However the serious politicing is not on the pre referundum vote, It is once the constitution amendments have been itemised and put to the public for consideration that Abhisit is needed. He should not be giving any more free ammo to the Thaksin Dynasty Mafia Family and goons to use against him.

Believe that if the judicary controls are seized by the Shinwatra Dynasty then it will be only be time before their lawlessness and level of corruption will see more Army intervention. If that happens then the Thai Army shouild cast their even quicker response net to include the Middle East.

<snip>

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

The 1997 "people's constitution" was even voted for by the people.

Abhisit's defence of the coup constitution shows his real allegiances. Supporting that document is selfish and shameful.

The shame should clearly be on the PTP side however they don't possess that emotion. there is also a huge amount of shame on the UDD side for all the brave words they said about no amnesty for anyone and now selling themselves out like pigs on 2 legs.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

"[We] will use all the state's mechanisms at our disposal, be it the Interior Ministry, the military and other state agencies to help cajole the public to vote. MPs will also come up with targets of how many people they get to come out to vote," said the source.

Be interesting to see how the military will be used to 'cajole' the public to vote!

'If the referendum is approved there will be less problems in the future.'

I would beg to differ.

<snip>

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

The 1997 "people's constitution" was even voted for by the people.

Actually ... that should read "was NOT even voted for by the people".

See my comment under:

the military and other state agencies to help cajole the public to vote.

The red shirts will love that.

A post that was previously deleted and re-posted again has been deleted again. If your post goes missing, there is a reason behind it's removal in the first place, off topic.

Abhisit's defence of the coup constitution shows his real allegiances. Supporting that document is selfish and shameful.

For the sake of our children, I do hope you are not a teacher here.

24 million times 500 baht vote encouragement, will be a costly manner, i guess some more fake millions of rice have to be exported on paper only to never have been moved and the 15.000 baht per tonne cashed once more

24 million times 500 baht vote encouragement, will be a costly manner, i guess some more fake millions of rice have to be exported on paper only to never have been moved and the 15.000 baht per tonne cashed once more

Unfortunately, vote buying is the scourge of Electoral Democracy in Thailand. It can be said with assurity however, that all sides are equally guilty, and all sides are equally guilty for not doing anything about it.

One side's attempt to appear angelic in this regard and who have difficulty in winning elections, even use the scourge to denigrate elections. For them, it is a convenient cudgel with which to demonize Electoral Democracy and are very motivated to retain the practice for that reason.

It can also be persuasively argued, that because all sides do it equally, no side benefits from it. The last election would have come out the same way it did, with or without vote-buying.

That said, in spite of all its' warts, faulty Thai Electoral Democracy is still better than any alternative, IMHO.

If Abhisit was campaigning like this against the previous constitution he may have been imprisoned.

"The junta passed a law that made criticism of the draft and opposition to the constitutional referendum a criminal act. Political parties were not allowed to persuade voters to cast ballots in favour or not in favour of the constitution. Any violators could be banned from politics for 5 years and jailed for 10 years." The Nation

If Abhisit was campaigning like this against the previous constitution he may have been imprisoned.

"The junta passed a law that made criticism of the draft and opposition to the constitutional referendum a criminal act. Political parties were not allowed to persuade voters to cast ballots in favour or not in favour of the constitution. Any violators could be banned from politics for 5 years and jailed for 10 years." The Nation

And that was a very good law - political parties are not the ones that should be involved in changing or rewriting the constitution. It's a pity it couldn't be enacted again to keep the dirty fingers of the current lot off the constitution. A constitution is for the country something Thaksin & his henchmen & women don't give a fig for.

Abhisit then wouldn't need to suggest that people should ignore the referendum.

Sure that's the only way for Thailand people's to develop the the future. Abhisit and Democratic Party has nothing good to offer the Thai people's, only hunting Khun Thaksin , order from there's cronys.

"The party was confident more than half of eligible voters would come to vote, the source said."

I'm confident that there'll be another hub soon.--

"[We] will use all the state's mechanisms at our disposal, be it the Interior Ministry, the military and other state agencies to help cajole the public to vote. MPs will also come up with targets of how many people they get to come out to vote," said the source.

Be interesting to see how the military will be used to 'cajole' the public to vote!

When this was done prior to the referendum for the current constitution, it was decried as intimidation. Now it is apparently acceptable.

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Political exile? From a government led by his sister and filled with his cronies, sycophants and appointed criminals dodging court? Do you realise how idiotic that statement is?

Thaksin can voluntarily return at any time, doesn't even have to book a ticket, but stays away to avoid prosecution and incarceration - which makes him a fugitive.

For the illinformed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

For the illinformed

http://en.wikipedia....ksin_Shinawatra

Do you mean, for you?

24 million times 500 baht vote encouragement, will be a costly manner, i guess some more fake millions of rice have to be exported on paper only to never have been moved and the 15.000 baht per tonne cashed once more

Unfortunately, vote buying is the scourge of Electoral Democracy in Thailand. It can be said with assurity however, that all sides are equally guilty, and all sides are equally guilty for not doing anything about it.

One side's attempt to appear angelic in this regard and who have difficulty in winning elections, even use the scourge to denigrate elections. For them, it is a convenient cudgel with which to demonize Electoral Democracy and are very motivated to retain the practice for that reason.

It can also be persuasively argued, that because all sides do it equally, no side benefits from it. The last election would have come out the same way it did, with or without vote-buying.

That said, in spite of all its' warts, faulty Thai Electoral Democracy is still better than any alternative, IMHO.

Glad to see you support the military "coupists" for at least attempting to reduce electoral bribery and fraud by including counter agencies via the current referendum. Of course, now that effort must be negated.

Electoral bribery benefits those with the most money. As one side's leader has managed to accumulate vast wealth stolen before and during his terms of office, how is he NOT benefited by being allowed to spend more to keep his nose in the fiscal trough?

Your simplistic view of democracy ignores the need for an informed and educated populace, independent courts, police and anti-corruption agencies, and a free and critical media. Thaksin and your version of democracy is a farce imitation of the real thing, where votes are bought willy-nilly and electoral law is only there to be broken - and any attempt to enforce it is labelled a judicial coup.

For the illinformed

http://en.wikipedia....ksin_Shinawatra

Do you mean, for you?

For

http://en.wikipedia....ksin_Shinawatra

Do you mean, for you?

So you read that in 2 minutes did you? Genius work on your behalf. I suppose your thousands of posts give you great credibility in your own little world. Take the blinkers off and see that there is a lot to learn in life and that one who claims to know everything really knows very little.

For

http://en.wikipedia....ksin_Shinawatra

Do you mean, for you?

So you read that in 2 minutes did you? Genius work on your behalf. I suppose your thousands of posts give you great credibility in your own little world. Take the blinkers off and see that there is a lot to learn in life and that one who claims to know everything really knows very little.

I didn't even open the link, so no genius.

The thousands of posts make no difference to my credibility, just as a few posts make no difference to your credibility.

What gives credibility is the content of posts, and at the moment the content of your posts isn't doing much for your credibility.

I didn't even open the link, so no genius.

The thousands of posts make no difference to my credibility, just as a few posts make no difference to your credibility.

What gives credibility is the content of posts, and at the moment the content of your posts isn't doing much for your credibility.

Actually, a post where you say nothing improves your credibility.

May I suggest you abide by your moniker, it will give your opinions greater credibility