Lying To Mom

[aTomsLife]

Hi all. I'm new to the forums, but have been reading for a time now, and am thankful for both the advice and entertainment value this site has given me. So, thanks everyone!

I've been living in Thailand about 2 years and am 33 years old, for what that's worth...

Last year I had a private student who was already fluent in English, and so our lessons were comprised entirely of spontaneous conversations. Over time she and I got to know one another better, and our talks shifted into more personal matters. In the context of giving me advice about Thai women and Thai culture, she told me an anecdote about how her son had taken a girl out on a first date. Her son refused to see this girl again because she'd lied to her mom about what she was doing, as she wasn't yet allowed to date, despite being over 18. (Both this girl and the guy in question are from very conservative hi-so families, if that makes a difference). My student's son's attitude was that if this girl was willing to lie to her mother, certainly she'd lie to him too.

At the time I didn't pay much heed to the story's moral. In fact my western mind was, and still is, inclined to siding with the girl.

Nevertheless, I've been reminded of this advice a lot the last few months. The crux of it is, I met a girl online and she lied to her mom about how we met. The lie is quite clever and frankly, if I didn't know better, it would be above suspicion. The result being that I'm having trouble trusting her completely now.

So I curious -- if a Thai lady, meaning a "good girl", lies to her mom, would this be a deal breaker for you?

Thanks and happy new year!

[Poo Ying FeFe]

Hmmm... A story explained to you by a Mother... and describing the moral ground of her prized possession. You shouldn't think too much into it.

I've told my Mother a few 'white lies' it just simplifies life. It doesn't make a woman Bad or Untrustworthy. How can anyone generalise someone's morality based on how transparent the woman is with giving info to her Mother.

This isn't a Thai thing, it's just a trust thing. And what does it matter if your GF is embarrassed to tell her mum you met on-line? Maybe she's saving your face because her mum dislikes this style of introduction. Just sayin.

[aussiebebe]

I'd never considered this before; is lying to one's own mother more acceptable to Westerners than Thai's - perhaps, I don't know. A broader question is whether people who meet online frequently lie about this in general due to embarrassment; the only two options are honesty or both people lying about how they met for the rest of their lives. Imagine you're at a party with other couples and the discussion turns to how you met; if you hadn't agreed upon a cover story beforehand, I think that being honest and saying 'Oh we met on womenbehindbars.com' would be a good way of never being invited back...by anyone...ever. According to studies over 80% of online daters lie about their height, weight or age anyway, so dishonesty is a prevalent trait for anyone you meet online anyway.

[barefoot1988]

probably had some truth to it.

had i told the truth to my mum, i would be nagged to death.

had i told the truth to my wife, it would be probably more than nagging

[maprao]

They all lie. It is a cultural thing. If a lie will save face then they tell it. Most lies are "white" lies. Maybe a bit of a generalization but I think you have to get used to a whole new set of values in Thailand.

[GuestHouse]

They all lie. It is a cultural thing. If a lie will save face then they tell it. Most lies are "white" lies. Maybe a bit of a generalization but I think you have to get used to a whole new set of values in Thailand.

Lying is not one of them, we all arrived here with a life long understanding of lies, white lies, half truths and the use there of.

[krisb]

Mothers always know when their child is lying!...well mine always did.

[aTomsLife]

the only two options are honesty or both people lying about how they met for the rest of their lives.

This struck a chord, thanks. It's likely because the lie requires I take part that's the real problem for me. So in a way, I'm constantly reminded that she lies, even though she seems a sincere person otherwise. And, moreover, you're exactly right: it's the kind of lie that requires a life-long commitment. That's a rather annoying reality.

Thanks for the replies, and again, Happy 2013!

Edited December 31, 2012 by aTomsLife

[Berkshire]

It really depends on the lie, doesn't it? Is it a big lie, or a little lie? Need more details, OP.

[impulse]

"So I curious -- if a Thai lady, meaning a "good girl", lies to her mom, would this be a deal breaker for you?

Most honest answer you'll get from me: What's she look like? And what "deal" are you looking for?

Edited December 31, 2012 by impulse

[aTomsLife]

Coincidentally, a friend of hers lives and works abroad in the city I come from. She told her mom I'm friends with her friend, and that this person introduced us, as we have much in common. I'm studying Thai, and she's studying English. We met and hit it off, as we have similar educations, work experience and are close in age as well. So, I think you see, the lie isn't itself malicious in any way. On the other hand, it's seamless and impressive in a way that isn't necessarily good.

I broached the topic with her. Her reply was that her mother would worry if she knew she'd posted a profile online. I understand that, to a degree. But to found the relationship on a lie is a bad omen, I think. I feel she must come clean if our relationship is to progress to the next level.

[BookMan]

It depends on the lie(s) doesn't it?

A lie from your GF over how you met hardly seems important.

If you are now worried that she is telling you lies, you should ensure her ongoing story stays the same, for the stuff you find important.

[aTomsLife]

"So I curious -- if a Thai lady, meaning a "good girl", lies to her mom, would this be a deal breaker for you?

Most honest answer you'll get from me: What's she look like? And what "deal" are you looking for?

She is quite the looker, I don't mind saying. In addition to her full-time career (management level governement position), she freelances as an MC, and often hosts events like beauty pageants, product launches and musical festivals. The "deal" I'm looking for is a healthy relationship based on trust and, moreover, the courage and willingness to reach middle-ground in a relationship between two people of different cultures.

Edited December 31, 2012 by aTomsLife

[BookMan]

Coincidentally, a friend of hers lives and works abroad in the city I come from. She told her mom I'm friends with her friend, and that this person introduced us, as we have much in common. I'm studying Thai, and she's studying English. We met and hit it off, as we have similar educations, work experience and are close in age as well. So, I think you see, the lie isn't itself malicious in any way. On the other hand, it's seamless and impressive in a way that isn't necessarily good.

I broached the topic with her. Her reply was that her mother would worry if she knew she'd posted a profile online. I understand that, to a degree. But to found the relationship on a lie is a bad omen, I think. I feel she must come clean if our relationship is to progress to the next level.

Why do you care what story she tells her mum?

How is YOUR relationship then founded upon a lie?

Surely YOUR relationship was founded on many more things BEFORE she told her mum that lie?

[maturebrit]

i once told my thai wife.....be careful what you ask as i will not lie to you but sometimes the truth can hurt...e.g. did you go with a lady last nite? if the truth is yes ok but does she really want to hear that?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[edwinchester]

When I first met my wife to be her mum insisted on a chaperon when we went away.

Came the time when more intimacy was wanted so a friend was enlisted to let MIL to be know we would be staying over at her place for a party but she'd be keeping an eye on us.

So wifey didn't utter the lie her friend did. Does that count?

Shortly after we got engaged so doings and such stuff became more acceptable.........ish.

[aTomsLife]

Why do you care what story she tells her mum?

How is YOUR relationship then founded upon a lie?

Surely YOUR relationship was founded on many more things BEFORE she told her mum that lie?

I care because I was reminded of the anecdote my student told me. And I posted asking whether I should pay any mind to it, whether her lie is typically a deal breaker in Thai culture. .

Perhaps "founded upon a lie" is a bit extreme. Fair enough, I retract that.

[Payboy]

Lying to mom is okay, but lying to mamasan can land you in serious trouble, I've heard.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Payboy

[toybits]

Withholding the truth is not considered a lie. So I ask - "What happened to the watch I gave you?" and she answered "Oh - it got stolen." They just sweep these thing under the rug and hope it goes away...

[BookMan]

Hmmm... A story explained to you by a Mother... and describing the moral ground of her prized possession. You shouldn't think too much into it.

I've told my Mother a few 'white lies' it just simplifies life. It doesn't make a woman Bad or Untrustworthy. How can anyone generalise someone's morality based on how transparent the woman is with giving info to her Mother.

This isn't a Thai thing, it's just a trust thing. And what does it matter if your GF is embarrassed to tell her mum you met on-line? Maybe she's saving your face because her mum dislikes this style of introduction. Just sayin.

An excellent post OP which pretty much sums it up.

If I could add one more thing to this:

How do you know that the reason your student gave you regarding her son was the true reason? Your students son might have lied to his mum, so she could hear a reason she was happy with. Bears thinking about

[2unique]

I broached the topic with her. Her reply was that her mother would worry if she knew she'd posted a profile online. I understand that, to a degree. But to found the relationship on a lie is a bad omen, I think. I feel she must come clean if our relationship is to progress to the next level.

That's incredibly selfish - sometimes we all tell those "beautiful lies" that stops mum from worrying. Most Thai girls I've met (and this is only from personal experience) do not enjoy the freedoms that we take for granted in the West in regards to making our own mistakes. You should be over the moon that she has at least brought you up with the family

[JDGRUEN]

Bottom line here OP ... A Thai woman lying about meeting a man online - in this Thai - Buddhist culture is not a surprise - I would think it would be expected. You chose to get online and met a Thai woman - and you should have known that many Thai woman who considers herself to be a 'proper' lady does not what anyone else to know how you two came about as a budding couple... except maybe her closest girlfriend or trusted sister... So - No surprise here and good grief - seems nothing more than a innocent white lie to spare Mom who is from an older generation from facing modern truths that she can't likely handle.

I have met some excellent Thai women on such dating sites - talked with them on Skype for months ... School Teachers, Government School Officers, Nurses, Accountants, etc An - None of them really wanted their coworkers, Mom, grown Children, etc. to know how it was that we came to know each other. I knew what was going on and why... I just didn't make any big deal of it... One very nice lady - I met 'kinda-sorta' on line ... her married sister contacted me on a dating site wanting to set me up with her slightly younger sister. How she and I met is not discussed ... she has not told most of her friends and none of her family how we came to know each other. It just happened...

[aTomsLife]

I broached the topic with her. Her reply was that her mother would worry if she knew she'd posted a profile online. I understand that, to a degree. But to found the relationship on a lie is a bad omen, I think. I feel she must come clean if our relationship is to progress to the next level.

That's incredibly selfish - sometimes we all tell those "beautiful lies" that stops mum from worrying. Most Thai girls I've met (and this is only from personal experience) do not enjoy the freedoms that we take for granted in the West in regards to making our own mistakes. You should be over the moon that she has at least brought you up with the family

And expecting me to lie to every person that asks about us isn't selfish, too? Still, I see your point, especially about personal freedoms (she is 29, unmarried, and thus still lives with mom).

I'm simply trying to set a precedent for honesty. I don't appreciate lying, even the "beautiful" kind, as I haven't had much if any success with it in life. But perhaps it's best to accept this one, as it's already run its course with her family.

Edited December 31, 2012 by aTomsLife

[hookedondhamma]

Bottom line here OP ... A Thai woman lying about meeting a man online - in this Thai - Buddhist culture is not a surprise - I would think it would be expected.

Lying has to do with ethics ... and those vary person by person, not culture, and definitely not religion.

[thaibeachlovers]

In my experience everyone lies about snall things. What is more important is whether they lie about "important" things.

[tinfoilhat]

Coincidentally, a friend of hers lives and works abroad in the city I come from. She told her mom I'm friends with her friend, and that this person introduced us, as we have much in common. I'm studying Thai, and she's studying English. We met and hit it off, as we have similar educations, work experience and are close in age as well. So, I think you see, the lie isn't itself malicious in any way. On the other hand, it's seamless and impressive in a way that isn't necessarily good.

I broached the topic with her. Her reply was that her mother would worry if she knew she'd posted a profile online. I understand that, to a degree. But to found the relationship on a lie is a bad omen, I think. I feel she must come clean if our relationship is to progress to the next level.

nonsense.

if you must speak only the truth say it was a blind date and talk about that first night.

it is essentially the same thing

Edited December 31, 2012 by tinfoilhat

[Pormax]

I think the OP is making a 'mountain' out of a 'mole hill'

Is he looking for a way out of this relationship already?

Everyone tells little white lies sometimes either to save embarrassing situations or hurting others.

I wonder just how many people on this forum met their GF or wife at a bar but would prefer to keep this information from others when asked by telling little 'porkies'

[JDGRUEN]

Bottom line here OP ... A Thai woman lying about meeting a man online - in this Thai - Buddhist culture is not a surprise - I would think it would be expected.

Lying has to do with ethics ... and those vary person by person, not culture, and definitely not religion.

My comment about Thai-Buddhist was not in any way meant to be a critical. I just have to disagree with you on your assessment that lying only varies by the person ...Truth telling and what defines truth is definitely determined by the social rules governed by ones culture and religion or non religion... Social psychologists have quite effectively shown that in cultures worldwide certain truths are hidden, disguised or just omitted... White lies - those bits of information that are not harmful nor told with malice - are the grease that keeps society running without friction. Otherwise our human social interactions would become quite a daily hassle.

Edited December 31, 2012 by JDGRUEN

[aTomsLife]

I think the OP is making a 'mountain' out of a 'mole hill'

Is he looking for a way out of this relationship already?

Everyone tells little white lies sometimes either to save embarrassing situations or hurting others.

I wonder just how many people on this forum met their GF or wife at a bar but would prefer to keep this information from others when asked by telling little 'porkies'

No, no, no. I'm not looking for a way out, just the opposite. We don't currently live in the same city. Our plan is for me to find a job near her in a few months. Admittedly, the distance probably has a lot to do with my trust issues. We are not spending the holiday together, as she feels my meeting her extended family is too big a step at the moment. (When I met her mom three months ago, I was introduced simply as a new friend. Perhaps I should have mentioned that earlier.)

On the other hand, I hope you're right about having made a mountain out of a mole hill. I feel a bit better about the matter now, having got some reasonable responses.

[2unique]

I think the OP is making a 'mountain' out of a 'mole hill'

Is he looking for a way out of this relationship already?

Everyone tells little white lies sometimes either to save embarrassing situations or hurting others.

I wonder just how many people on this forum met their GF or wife at a bar but would prefer to keep this information from others when asked by telling little 'porkies'

No, no, no. I'm not looking for a way out, just the opposite. We don't currently live in the same city. Our plan is for me to find a job near her in a few months. Admittedly, the distance probably has a lot to do with my trust issues. We are not spending the holiday together, as she feels my meeting her extended family is too big a step at the moment. (When I met her mom three months ago, I was introduced simply as a new friend. Perhaps I should have mentioned that earlier.)

On the other hand, I hope you're right about having made a mountain out of a mole hill. I feel a bit better about the matter now, having got some reasonable responses.

I went to my wife's house every Sunday for lunch for almost a year, they never asked as they'd rather not hear that particular truth. Don't worry about being introduced as a friend once you propose all is forgotten/forgiven and if you never propose then no harm no foul.

And I still stand by my selfish comment as it appears (from reading on here not knowing you obviously) your insecurity needs her to propel you into some sort of prominent position.

If you're not happy with the lie don't embellish, add to or even confirm it, just smile and change the subject. Force her to confront it before she's ready and you'll more likely lose the girl before she chooses to lose face

Sent from Android please allow errors in type or judgment.