Status On Applying For Thai Pr?

[bkkfoxi]

April 2013 - addition of my name to wife's family tabien Baan house book

I would do this as soon as possible, and is an important thing if you plan to apply for Thai nationality without PR.

Understood - Although not mentioned in the PR application, I was advised that your name in the Tabien Baan needs to be there for at least 6 months prior to the PR application.

Interestingly, Bangkok Immigration HQ stated that the normal route to Citizenship was to hold the PR for a few years (3 years, I think) prior to applying for citizenship. I read in this message string that naturalization is possible by a direct route; I just haven't met anyone locally who's pulled it off yet. (A direct citizenship application would be much better for myself - I read/write/sing Thai )

The normal route to citizenship for males is to hold PR for 5 years first, not 3. The 2008 Nationality Act provided an exemption from the 5 years' residency requirement and the requirement to have knowledge of the Thai language for those who are married to a Thai national in Section 11.4. Unfortunately your singing ability will not be required, if you choose this route, as in practice they will only exempt you from having to sing the two anthems - listening to average applicants' singing attempts is rather painful for officials and they are only too glad to avoid this chore. However, reading and writing Thai will otherwise put you in good stead. First task should be to read the Nationality Act with 2008 amendments in Thai and memorise the vocabulary. Yes, a few people have already been successful through this route although the backlog and snail's pace of processing means that most post 2008 applicants without special connections are still at some indeterminate place in the black hole of the Interior Ministry and probably haven't even been interviewed yet.

Need to find one of those "Special Connections" I guess

[tombkk]

The normal route to citizenship for males is to hold PR for 5 years first, not 3. The 2008 Nationality Act provided an exemption from the 5 years' residency requirement and the requirement to have knowledge of the Thai language for those who are married to a Thai national in Section 11.4. Unfortunately your singing ability will not be required, if you choose this route, as in practice they will only exempt you from having to sing the two anthems - listening to average applicants' singing attempts is rather painful for officials and they are only too glad to avoid this chore. However, reading and writing Thai will otherwise put you in good stead. First task should be to read the Nationality Act with 2008 amendments in Thai and memorise the vocabulary. Yes, a few people have already been successful through this route although the backlog and snail's pace of processing means that most post 2008 applicants without special connections are still at some indeterminate place in the black hole of the Interior Ministry and probably haven't even been interviewed yet.

Need to find one of those "Special Connections" I guess

I strongly recommend against going down that lane. One of these days, the politics will change and earlier decisions made will be investigated, and any wrong-doings investigated.

My PR is clean and straight-forward for that reason, even though I had to wait for six years for the approval.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Using connections to get you to the top if the pile is not going to get you in any trouble. It's the way things work.

My advice is to pull all the strings you have -- as long as you qualify and go through the process, you're just getting a little added expediency.

[Arkady]

Using connections to get you to the top if the pile is not going to get you in any trouble. It's the way things work.

My advice is to pull all the strings you have -- as long as you qualify and go through the process, you're just getting a little added expediency.

This absolutely correct. A friend got his PR during the big freeze with high level help. Special Branch will tell you that some people manage to get their citizenship in one year, if they know the minister. Remember that the minister has discretion over both, so that if he has signed a legal application, it is legally approved. Problems can only arise when the applicant was not properly qualified. In that case he can lose PR or citizenship for submitting false information with his applicant and be charged with a criminal offence. Nothing would happen to the minister because there would be no evidence he knew about the false information (even if he did). There is probably no downside, even if your connections are not big enough or don't finish the job before they lose power or influence. You would just be where you were before.

[thequietman]

If you are married to a Thai you could apply for citizenship instead of going for PR.

You just need to have an income over 40K baht and on extensions of stay for 3 years.

You should be able to do either one yourself without the help of a lawyer.

How does one prove income please? letter from consulate? monthly deposits of 40,000 in bank account for a period of time ??

Thanks.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Your income should come from a job performed legally in Thailand. Your evidence would be your tax returns (phor.ngor.dor 5).

[bkkfoxi]

Ok got my stack of documents ready just waiting for the 2 Thai's to sign on my "good character " - I got a Lecturer and an M.R. to do this so hopefully their names will help my course! will submit everything late this week or early next. I will keep you posted about what flies,.....

[tombkk]

Using connections to get you to the top if the pile is not going to get you in any trouble. It's the way things work.

My advice is to pull all the strings you have -- as long as you qualify and go through the process, you're just getting a little added expediency.

This absolutely correct. A friend got his PR during the big freeze with high level help. Special Branch will tell you that some people manage to get their citizenship in one year, if they know the minister. Remember that the minister has discretion over both, so that if he has signed a legal application, it is legally approved. Problems can only arise when the applicant was not properly qualified. In that case he can lose PR or citizenship for submitting false information with his applicant and be charged with a criminal offence. Nothing would happen to the minister because there would be no evidence he knew about the false information (even if he did). There is probably no downside, even if your connections are not big enough or don't finish the job before they lose power or influence. You would just be where you were before.

No, you wouldn't be were you were before. You would be in jail or on deportation row. You might also be lucky and won't get caught. This time. How about next year? Will your special friend still be in a position of power?

I didn't use any "connections" to get my PR, and that was on purpose. I am no exception.

As with all other ventures in life, the same thing applies: If you can't do it legally, don't do it.

[NewlyMintedThai]

There is nothing illegal about getting PR if you are qualified and go through the correct channels. I'm not suggesting anything else.

BUT you might get through those correct channels a little more quickly if you know the right people. There is nothing illegal about that. No downside at all, whether it's now or ten or twenty years from now.

That said...if you use connections to pass you through with false qualifications, yes: you will always have that hanging over your head.

[bkkfoxi]

There is nothing illegal about getting PR if you are qualified and go through the correct channels. I'm not suggesting anything else.

BUT you might get through those correct channels a little more quickly if you know the right people. There is nothing illegal about that. No downside at all, whether it's now or ten or twenty years from now.

That said...if you use connections to pass you through with false qualifications, yes: you will always have that hanging over your head.

ok now I got an ex senator (an old friend from rotary club) to help me out so lets see if we can crush the 1 year rule ..... keep you posted....

[NewlyMintedThai]

There is nothing illegal about getting PR if you are qualified and go through the correct channels. I'm not suggesting anything else.

BUT you might get through those correct channels a little more quickly if you know the right people. There is nothing illegal about that. No downside at all, whether it's now or ten or twenty years from now.

That said...if you use connections to pass you through with false qualifications, yes: you will always have that hanging over your head.

ok now I got an ex senator (an old friend from rotary club) to help me out so lets see if we can crush the 1 year rule ..... keep you posted....

Good luck!

[beano2274]

Your income should come from a job performed legally in Thailand. Your evidence would be your tax returns (phor.ngor.dor 5).

By legal you mean with a Work Permit, I have done my tax assessments for the last 3 years, but as I work outside of Thailand and pay taxes here, therefore no WP, therefore no Citizenship.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Your income should come from a job performed legally in Thailand. Your evidence would be your tax returns (phor.ngor.dor 5).

By legal you mean with a Work Permit, I have done my tax assessments for the last 3 years, but as I work outside of Thailand and pay taxes here, therefore no WP, therefore no Citizenship.

Correct, as per my understanding.

[Dork]

Your income should come from a job performed legally in Thailand. Your evidence would be your tax returns (phor.ngor.dor 5).

By legal you mean with a Work Permit, I have done my tax assessments for the last 3 years, but as I work outside of Thailand and pay taxes here, therefore no WP, therefore no Citizenship.

Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic but if you work abroad and have no work permit, why do you pay taxes in Thailand? Is there some advantage in doing that?

[Mario2008]

Thai law requires you to pay income tax over income you bring into Thailand during the year the income has been earned, even when earned abroad. Of course there are treaties between many countries to insure you don't get taxed in two countries at the same time.

[beano2274]

Your income should come from a job performed legally in Thailand. Your evidence would be your tax returns (phor.ngor.dor 5).

By legal you mean with a Work Permit, I have done my tax assessments for the last 3 years, but as I work outside of Thailand and pay taxes here, therefore no WP, therefore no Citizenship.

Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic but if you work abroad and have no work permit, why do you pay taxes in Thailand? Is there some advantage in doing that?

If you were a contractor and working in the Netherlands for example the tax rate is very high, if you can prove to the agency that you are paying tax in another country you can be exempt from Dutch Tax.

[Mario2008]

Don't tjhink so. As working in another country, you would normally be required to pay tax there (in your exmple The Netherlands). The Thai tax department would then deduct the amount you paid in The Netherlands on any Thai taxed you might be due on your income earned in The Netherlands.

[Dork]

Your income should come from a job performed legally in Thailand. Your evidence would be your tax returns (phor.ngor.dor 5).

By legal you mean with a Work Permit, I have done my tax assessments for the last 3 years, but as I work outside of Thailand and pay taxes here, therefore no WP, therefore no Citizenship.

Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic but if you work abroad and have no work permit, why do you pay taxes in Thailand? Is there some advantage in doing that?

If you were a contractor and working in the Netherlands for example the tax rate is very high, if you can prove to the agency that you are paying tax in another country you can be exempt from Dutch Tax.

Ahh, I see. That makes sense. Thanks for the answer.

[bkkfoxi]

There is nothing illegal about getting PR if you are qualified and go through the correct channels. I'm not suggesting anything else.

BUT you might get through those correct channels a little more quickly if you know the right people. There is nothing illegal about that. No downside at all, whether it's now or ten or twenty years from now.

That said...if you use connections to pass you through with false qualifications, yes: you will always have that hanging over your head.

ok now I got an ex senator (an old friend from rotary club) to help me out so lets see if we can crush the 1 year rule ..... keep you posted....

Good luck!

yeah thanks mate .... time will tell lol

[beano2274]

Don't tjhink so. As working in another country, you would normally be required to pay tax there (in your exmple The Netherlands). The Thai tax department would then deduct the amount you paid in The Netherlands on any Thai taxed you might be due on your income earned in The Netherlands.

If you are there for a period of time over 180 days then you become liable for tax in that country.

[ubonjoe]

How long you have to be in country depends upon the country and your citizenship.

If you are in Thailand for less than 180 days you are not liable for Thai taxes. Also foreign earned income is only taxable if it is from working or property rentals.

Edited March 5, 2013 by ubonjoe

[bkkfoxi]

UPDATE:

Today I went to building 24 at police HQ to submit my forms (left it a couple of months as been traveling!) the Police there where super helpful and nice! however it turned out that I have to submit my documents at the same office but in Nontaburi as my house address is in that area! On a positive note they checked my paper work anyway and all was perfect they even mentioned that I did not need a bank statement as the proof of Tax returns was enough also; and what surprised me the most, the turn around at least in my case would be 2-3 months (Apparently they are processing new cases as and when they receive them) - time will tell on this point and I will keep you informed as and when

So for now I am off to the Nontaburi special branch on Monday LOL!!!

Edited May 17, 2013 by bkkfoxi

[bkkfoxi]

UPDATE:

Today I went to building 24 at police HQ to submit my forms (left it a couple of months as been traveling!) the Police there where super helpful and nice! however it turned out that I have to submit my documents at the same office but in Nontaburi as my house address is in that area! On a positive note they checked my paper work anyway and all was perfect they even mentioned that I did not need a bank statement as the proof of Tax returns was enough also; and what surprised me the most, the turn around at least in my case would be 2-3 months (Apparently they are processing new cases as and when they receive them) - time will tell on this point and I will keep you informed as and when

So for now I am off to the Nontaburi special branch on Monday LOL!!!

Forgot to mention that the policeman I dealt with was kind enough to give me his contact details so if I had an issue at the other location I can get them to call him (I had asked him that I was worried the police in Nontaburi would just send me back to HQ)

[bkkfoxi]

Hi,

Well I have been to the Nontaburi Police head office and the Police there where very good indeed, we spent nearly 2 hours going over the documents and the following needed to be addressed:

1) They wanted my passport Translated

2) Translation of Education document

AND:

3) The are saying I MUST be in the Tabean Baan Book!!!!!!

I thought that I didn't need to be in there? I married 12 years Kids 10 and 8 years old TAX all in order etc,....

Can anyone point me to the Exact Thai Law where it states that I DO NOT need to be in the House book? with this I can go back to the police office and all will be well, as I am sure I can NOT get my name into the Blue House book right?

Thanks guys,....

[GarryP]

Mistake

Edited May 23, 2013 by GarryP

[samran]

Hi,

Well I have been to the Nontaburi Police head office and the Police there where very good indeed, we spent nearly 2 hours going over the documents and the following needed to be addressed:

1) They wanted my passport Translated

2) Translation of Education document

AND:

3) The are saying I MUST be in the Tabean Baan Book!!!!!!

I thought that I didn't need to be in there? I married 12 years Kids 10 and 8 years old TAX all in order etc,....

Can anyone point me to the Exact Thai Law where it states that I DO NOT need to be in the House book? with this I can go back to the police office and all will be well, as I am sure I can NOT get my name into the Blue House book right?

Thanks guys,....

You can get on the yellow tabieen baan.

[bkkfoxi]

Hi,

Well I have been to the Nontaburi Police head office and the Police there where very good indeed, we spent nearly 2 hours going over the documents and the following needed to be addressed:

1) They wanted my passport Translated

2) Translation of Education document

AND:

3) The are saying I MUST be in the Tabean Baan Book!!!!!!

I thought that I didn't need to be in there? I married 12 years Kids 10 and 8 years old TAX all in order etc,....

Can anyone point me to the Exact Thai Law where it states that I DO NOT need to be in the House book? with this I can go back to the police office and all will be well, as I am sure I can NOT get my name into the Blue House book right?

Thanks guys,....

You can get on the yellow tabieen baan.

Many thanks for your reply, but as I understand this "Yellow Book" is costing me 93K ++ correct - PLUS I understand I don not need to be a PR in order to apply for TC?

I Do not understand the "Yellow Book" I just thought it is only to obtain the status of PR in which case I do not need to do - catch 22 coming on

If I can just do a "Yellow Book" with out the PR status I am 100% perfect. Or just find the Thai law wording that states I do NOT need to be in any such book due to my status already

Thanks for your and others input,...

[samran]

You can't get on the blue book without PR.

But it seems that the police station is asking for a copy of a house registration. As such, you need to get on the house registration which is yellow in colour, which is where you record the names of foriegners who don't have PR. Doesn't cost 95K, only a few hundred baht from memory.

[bkkfoxi]

You can't get on the blue book without PR.

But it seems that the police station is asking for a copy of a house registration. As such, you need to get on the house registration which is yellow in colour, which is where you record the names of foriegners who don't have PR. Doesn't cost 95K, only a few hundred baht from memory.

Oh ok that is what they are asking for so a trip to the Aumpur right and with the house owner (my Wife) and they will list me in a "Yellow Book" as living there?

Thanks for the info

[Time Traveller]

Your income should come from a job performed legally in Thailand. Your evidence would be your tax returns (phor.ngor.dor 5).

By legal you mean with a Work Permit, I have done my tax assessments for the last 3 years, but as I work outside of Thailand and pay taxes here, therefore no WP, therefore no Citizenship.

If you work outside Thailand, why do you pay taxes in thailand? You do not need to pay taxes on your foreign sourced income.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Time Traveller