Dealing With Thai's "they Know Best Attitude"

[Kevin1908]

I have a thread going about the wife getting her visa for the UK but not her son. Paul of Thai Visa Exp put me in touch with Tony at Siam Orchid about what we need to do but lurking in the background is the Thai "Visa Expert" that my wife used to help her with the original application who she wants to deal with the appeal. I obviously don't.

We are in the situation we are in due to a poor submission. I have not been involved in the son's submission so don't really know what was submitted.

The crux of the issue comes down to who has legal custody and I am somewhat frustrated at keep asking the question and getting that dumb Thai attitude where they go in stupid mode and pretend not to understand.

I even got a Thai translator at the London Embassy to email her in Thai with exactly what I need and I still get the "I don't understand" bit. If a Thai doesn't understand another Thai what hope is there.

Paul at Siam Orchid has offered that my wife talks to the Bangkok office but my wife is adamant that she wants to use her "expert friend"

This guy is confident that we just appeal and everything will be ok but nobody can actually tell me what the situation is regarding custody of the boy. I can't imagine he has done any UK appeals because I can't see it being that easy.

The Thai visa expert had just sent a UK appeal form and asked me to write a letter outlining the basis for the appeal.

How do I get through to him that is his job not mine. I don't know the basis for the appeal. I don't know what the custody issue is. I don't know why the son said he had contact 2 or 3 times a week with his dad.

Do I put my foot down and say I am paying for this you use who I say or just go with the flow, throw more money at it and lose the appeal. At the end of the day it isn't my son stuck in Thailand.

[David48]

To the OP, it's great that you provide us with challenging and unique problems which you seem to deal with almost on a daily basis.

However, maybe, with the (indirect) naming of names, is this just getting a wee bit personal and the thrust of your OP is not aimed at a question, but more a general bitch about the process in general?

Waiter ... coat please ...

.

[Kevin1908]

To the OP, it's great that you provide us with challenging and unique problems which you seem to deal with almost on a daily basis.

However, maybe, with the (indirect) naming of names, is this just getting a wee bit personal and the thrust of your OP is not aimed at a question, but more a general bitch about the process in general?

Waiter ... coat please ...

.

May be a whine at dealing with Thais. Not quite on a daily basis. Isn't this a forum for help. If not I will shut up. No problem in dealing with the named people. The question is how do you deal with Thais and their "they know best attitude".

I assume that is about losing face. My wife has engaged Thai friend to help and now feels compelled to continue with that person even though it is that person's poor dealing with the initial application that has lead to the situation. Even when they have got themselves in a mess then the thought of losing face means that they continue and get in an even bigger mess.

When farangs have been let down then we find find a more knowledgable person. I am trying to find the best way to stear my wife away from dealing with her friend and to deal with somebosy who has knowledge of UK appeals. Does anybody have any advice. If it is a question of losing face or he feals he is losing business then I will pay him off. But getting him to deal with the appeal will be a disaster.

[amykat]

I vote for "put your foot down" and deal with your own person. And do not "pay off" the Thai friend. Your wife has probably told this person whatever the real story is, and he/she is promising to help her ...i.e. cover up the lies /work around them.

If your wife is going to live in the UK with you, now might be a good time for her to learn that "Thai style" isn't going to cut it re the paperwork, laws, etc.

[Kevin1908]

I vote for "put your foot down" and deal with your own person. And do not "pay off" the Thai friend. Your wife has probably told this person whatever the real story is, and he/she is promising to help her ...i.e. cover up the lies /work around them.

If your wife is going to live in the UK with you, now might be a good time for her to learn that "Thai style" isn't going to cut it re the paperwork, laws, etc.

That is my preference. I am still having a problem convincing the wife to get all the required documentation (custody documents) to support the appeal. Hopefully once she is here I can have more influence the trouble is if she doesn't bring the documents with her I am screwed.

[Tony M]

I vote for "put your foot down" and deal with your own person. And do not "pay off" the Thai friend. Your wife has probably told this person whatever the real story is, and he/she is promising to help her ...i.e. cover up the lies /work around them.

If your wife is going to live in the UK with you, now might be a good time for her to learn that "Thai style" isn't going to cut it re the paperwork, laws, etc.

Correct. Do not allow a Thai visa agent to do a UK appeal for you. I doubt if it will be what you need. What you do need is a qualified level 3 OISC registered immigration advisor in the UK. But, he will need access to all of the information, and all of the documents relating to custody of the child that the Embassy has already seen. If it is clear from the documents that custody was either with the father, or was shared, then you cannot really win an appeal. You might be able to get the custody changed ( in court) to the mother but it is unlikely to change the outcome of the appeal as the appeal decision will/should be made on the facts that the ECO had before him at the time he made the decision.

There is the question of whether the custody was granted in a court ( if they were legally married) or in an amphur ( if it was a "customary" wedding). If it was decided in court, then only a court can change the custody order. You really do need some good advice on this.

[Eff1n2ret]

"When farangs have been let down then we find find a more knowledgable person. I am trying to find the best way to stear my wife away from dealing with her friend and to deal with somebosy who has knowledge of UK appeals. Does anybody have any advice. If it is a question of losing face or he feals he is losing business then I will pay him off. But getting him to deal with the appeal will be a disaster."

Kevin, it will be a disaster because there is no Thai-based company that is even authorised to prepare or present an appeal to the Tribunal. To succed may require a lot more than just filling in a form or writing a letter. You should be aware of the system which UK law insists on, that only an OISC advisor qualified to Level 3 is authorised to present an appeal in the UK Tribunal. Have a read of this page, which will give you a steer on this:-

http://oisc.homeoffice.gov.uk/how_to_find_a_regulated_immigration_adviser/how_to_choose_an_adviser/

The only alternative is a qualified UK solicitor. ThaiVisa, the sponsor of this forum, is not accredited to the appropriate level, and has quite correctly recommended a company that is. You should get your missis to speak to their Bangkok office, after which she might be suitably assured. There should come a point where she is not concerned about the company she previously instructed "losing face", you should make it quite clear to her that there's no more money going their way.

[Kevin1908]

yes point taken. I will work on convincing my wife we have to deal with this from the UK.

[mania]

The crux of the issue comes down to who has legal custody and I am somewhat frustrated at keep asking the question and getting that dumb Thai attitude where they go in stupid mode and pretend not to understand.........

I don't know what the custody issue is.

I don't know why the son said he had contact 2 or 3 times a week with his dad.

These are the things that jump out at me when reading your post.

Without the answers to this most important of all questions you are just wasting your time & money.

What you call dumb or pretend not to understand mode is common when a Thai person does not want to

say something. They may not want to say for various reasons including protecting your feelings...who knows.

But as you say without this important piece of the puzzle you really are just wasting time & money IMHO

One other thing is in many countries it does not matter who has legal or physical custody of a child when it comes to removing the child

from the country where both parents lived. Both parents need to consent to it period.

I remember in your other post you said something to the effect that you did not know why the father would change his mind or make things difficult.

That may or may not be the case. If the child is a minor the father may have just had a change of heart & the removal of his child to another

country with the prospect of not seeing or knowing the child while he grows up may just be too much for him now that he has thought it over.

I don't know & also do not know what their relationship is now if any at all.

But back to your point in this post, again without this information you have no hope & I think you

know that because you asked if you should just throw more money at it knowing it will be rejected.

Sorry not easy but I think you know the answer already is do it right or not do it at all.

Good Luck

[Kevin1908]

A few more things have come to light. Seems the wife has formally engaged the guy who submitted the applications to deal with the appeal. I am still none the wise as to the custody issue and the visa guy is asking me to write the letter laying out the reasons for the appeal. I made it quite clear that since I have no idea what documents were submitted with the application that he was paid well to submit, I have no idea what custody if any my wife has that I am in no position to write any letters supporting the appeal, I just don't know.

I am sorry to say that the wife got herself into this mess and only she can get herself out.

I think going down the appeal route is going to be a waste of a year. Reapplying will be throwing more money down the drain.

According to the interview from the father he did not raise any objections.

[Maestro]

Kevin, whatever you do, by all means do not support the apparently false statement your step-son made about the frequency of his contacts with you. If you need to submit a statement, make sure it contains nothing but the truth.

[rawhod]

I have followed your threads with interest. There are enough people posting constructive , and the usual array of non-constructive comments, so I have, so far, refrained.

You have been very open in your postings,and I admire that fact, but you do appear to working at a distance with a of lack of information.

Of course I am not privy to your personal situation in the UK, but I feel that your best course of action would be to be here in Thailand, where, not only would you have access to the information, but you would be able to speak to your wife face to face, and take control of matters yourself.

[simple1]

OP: Please do not be offended with the following, just sharing some experience that may not apply to your dealing with your wife on this matter. My experience when a Thai is 'in stupid mode and pretend not to understand." she does not want to tell you the truth - highly likely she fully understands what is required. Alternatively she has mentally closed down under pressure. Either way will require a fair bit of patience from you to uncover the truth of the matter, before investing more time and money for an appeal. As post #12 suggested, best to do face to face to resolve one way or the other

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Its Tony @orchid of Siam a level 3 advisor, I am Paul at TVE don't confuse us both we are both registered with the OISC.

• You need to take control of the situation im afraid the visa expert here is whom ?
• Did he prepare the previous application & not check the custody arrangement ?

I have posted you Kevin to someone more knowledgeable than me with appeals, I have chosen to stay at this level due to the fact most of my work is in Thailand.

This is the correct course of action in this case we have a duty of care with any client we feel we cannot help. You need a Level 3 advisor who is based in the UK.

Regards paul

Edited March 1, 2013 by ThaiVisaExpress