Why Is It Difficult To Sell A Cbr150R?

[Rolo Tomazi]

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

[Rolo Tomazi]

the old model sells much easier than the new one, its half the price and highly sought after.

Why would anybody in his right mind buy an older model with a carb, skinny tires and old-fashioned looks?

It's much cheaper because nobody would give more for it.

[Rolo Tomazi]

Second hand cars and bikes are very overpriced here compared to the rest of the world.

I agree, used vehicles that would sell for maybe 60% of the sticker price in the West still sell for 75 to 80% of the sticker price here.

[rixalex]

Second hand cars and bikes are very overpriced here compared to the rest of the world.

I agree, used vehicles that would sell for maybe 60% of the sticker price in the West still sell for 75 to 80% of the sticker price here.

Depends on how you look at it. Are used vehicles here over-priced, or are used vehicles in the West under-priced? I think because we are conditioned to the Western used prices, we tend to think those prices are correct, and the prices here are wrong. I'm not so sure. In the West i could never justify buying new, because it just didn't seem worth it, considering the amount of money lost when driving out of the showroom, and when you could buy something 18 months old or so for often about half the new price. Here though, buying new does often make sense, because it is still worth something after a few years.

[rixalex]

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

Have to take your word for it. Ridden bikes of that ilk when i was younger, before i had my big bike license, and hated them. For me, the thrill of going fast, is completely negated if i'm feeling uncomfortable and unsafe. Perhaps small bikes have come along some in the last decade or so, but i would be surprised if they have come along quite that far.

[KRS1]

the old model sells much easier than the new one, its half the price and highly sought after.

Why would anybody in his right mind buy an older model with a carb, skinny tires and old-fashioned looks?

It's much cheaper because nobody would give more for it.

Because its lighter, makes a better traffic cutter, has a lower seat height and can be made faster than the new Fi version cheaper. Fits the Thai anatomy better and 75% of thais prefer how the older one looks. There's a joke on the thai sites that the new one looks like a helmet.

Fatter tires just makes you slower. For the size of the bike the oem size is not skinny at all, just right.

Its cheaper because its the old model (common sense), the last year of manufacture fetches 45k baht, thats only 10k less than the new model that cost 85k new. vs 65k new for the older model.

If i was going to modify the cbr 150 id take the older one all day long. It only takes 5k baht to make it as fast if not faster than the cbr 250.

ive had 6 and sold them all within 1 week because i asked a realistic price and wasnt greedy.

Edited March 10, 2013 by KRS1

[mania]

Depends on how you look at it. Are used vehicles here over-priced, or are used vehicles in the West under-priced? I think because we are conditioned to the Western used prices, we tend to think those prices are correct, and the prices here are wrong. I'm not so sure. In the West i could never justify buying new, because it just didn't seem worth it, considering the amount of money lost when driving out of the showroom, and when you could buy something 18 months old or so for often about half the new price. Here though, buying new does often make sense, because it is still worth something after a few years.

A plausible answer but maybe not on trucks here?

I have bought new full sized V8 trucks in the USA

for less than I paid for a 2 year old (at the time I bought it )

2010 Isuzu Dmax 4 door here in Thailand

[rixalex]

Depends on how you look at it. Are used vehicles here over-priced, or are used vehicles in the West under-priced? I think because we are conditioned to the Western used prices, we tend to think those prices are correct, and the prices here are wrong. I'm not so sure. In the West i could never justify buying new, because it just didn't seem worth it, considering the amount of money lost when driving out of the showroom, and when you could buy something 18 months old or so for often about half the new price. Here though, buying new does often make sense, because it is still worth something after a few years.

A plausible answer but maybe not on trucks here?

I have bought new full sized V8 trucks in the USA

for less than I paid for a 2 year old (at the time I bought it )

2010 Isuzu Dmax 4 door here in Thailand

The subject we were discussing was the different levels of depreciation, comparing Western depreciation with Thai. I don't understand how a new truck in the US being cheaper than a used truck in Thailand has anything to do with this particular debate.

[mania]

The subject we were discussing was the different levels of depreciation, comparing Western depreciation with Thai. I don't understand how a new truck in the US being cheaper than a used truck in Thailand has anything to do with this particular debate.

Feel like I just entered the twilight zone

I have re-read your previous post I replied to & see I

misunderstood completely

Edited March 10, 2013 by mania

[macknife]

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

Have to take your word for it. Ridden bikes of that ilk when i was younger, before i had my big bike license, and hated them. For me, the thrill of going fast, is completely negated if i'm feeling uncomfortable and unsafe. Perhaps small bikes have come along some in the last decade or so, but i would be surprised if they have come along quite that far.

Be surprised then, the new CBR150 feels very comfortable and safe at high speeds, no vibration at all.

As far as the topic goes, generally speaking of course, most Thais either have a lot of money or very little. If they can afford to pay 60K cash for a used CBR150 then they can afford a new one or a 250. For those with much less money, they have to use finance. They can't buy a used CBR on finance but they can buy a new one.

Scooters like the Nouvo or Click are very different. You can get a used one for 20-30K, and this price is in range for Thais(or farangs) with not a lot of money.

[yankee99]

Rolo Tomazi - if I didn't already have a 2011 CBR150R, I would buy your 2011 CBR150R immediately. I'm in Canada. I have a 2011 CBR250R AND a 2011 CBR150R (which is really a 2011 CBR125R with the Thai 150R engine swapped into it). Canada does not import the CBR150R. What I've discovered is that the CBR150R is so much more fun and engaging to ride than the CBR250R. I never ride my CBR250R anymore and I'm currently trying to sell it. Bigger displacement doesn't necessarily mean "more fun to ride". The CBR250R is really torquey - but feels relatively boring to ride - lacks an exciting top end.

There have been lots of inquiries here in Canada asking how one might be able to acquire the Thai 150R engine so a swap into the 125R chassis could be made. I was lucky enough to buy a used bike from Thailand and have just the engine and necessary components for the swap shipped to me. Around $2000 + shipping (CND) for the engine, throttle body, and other essentials is a fair deal when you can now buy a new CBR125R for $2299 (CND - one of the best buys currently in a new motorcycle in Canada in my opinion). It is a direct swap.

I know this doesn't help your cause - but in a perfect world you would sell the bike to a Canadian CBR125R owner, crate the engine and essentials and ship it out - then sell off all the extra parts of the bike (e.g., fuel tank, wheels, seat, fairings, etc) and probably make a profit off of it!

Mike

Right, you're not helping me much but you make my day by saying you would buy it...

People selling their Lifans for a decent price in two weeks and I don't get a call for a quality CBR - something's wrong with this picture!

Interesting that you say "bigger bikes doesn't mean more fun tom ride" - I agree, I've had 1400cc cruisers and 1000cc BMWs and found out that a light single can be more fun to ride.

A 250 Ninja can be quicker and more fun than a 650 - as long as you don't go touring.

qucker and more fun? i dont think so.......That must be some basket case 650. There is no way that would be the case unless the 650 was too much bike.

[BSJ]

They don't say what year & I am not savy about cbr150's but there is one

with mod's in the classified section with 16k on the clock selling

for 39,900 baht

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/automotives-vehicles/motorcycles/very-light-speedy-racer-213588.html

Another with 15k on the clock for 45,000 baht or best offer

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/automotives-vehicles/motorcycles/cbr-150-for-sale-excellent-condition-213708.html

That blue one looks OK....and he is open to reaasonable offers.

[rene123]

Depends on how you look at it. Are used vehicles here over-priced, or are used vehicles in the West under-priced? I think because we are conditioned to the Western used prices, we tend to think those prices are correct, and the prices here are wrong. I'm not so sure. In the West i could never justify buying new, because it just didn't seem worth it, considering the amount of money lost when driving out of the showroom, and when you could buy something 18 months old or so for often about half the new price. Here though, buying new does often make sense, because it is still worth something after a few years.

A plausible answer but maybe not on trucks here?

I have bought new full sized V8 trucks in the USA

for less than I paid for a 2 year old (at the time I bought it )

2010 Isuzu Dmax 4 door here in Thailand

I think the reason that people buy new as opposed to 2nd hand is financing. If you buy new then the company will finance it. Not everyone has $50,000 in cash lying around for a cash sale. Buying second hand almost always means paying cash for the vehicle.

[wantan]

People selling their Lifans for a decent price in two weeks and I don't get a call for a quality CBR - something's wrong with this picture!

No, its no suprise for me. There are only a few Lifan Cruisers offered. And if its with low km and only a few moths old than it will sell quickly if properly offerd.

When talking about resale value one should not forget that there must be enough people willing to buy the model you want to sell. You cannot just rely on the brand name.

The CBRs (150,250,500) are a cheap fun bikes made in Thailand. Made to be ridden a few years and than getting recycled. Not really different compared to a Lifan

[wantan]

Depends on how you look at it. Are used vehicles here over-priced, or are used vehicles in the West under-priced? I think because we are conditioned to the Western used prices, we tend to think those prices are correct, and the prices here are wrong. I'm not so sure. In the West i could never justify buying new, because it just didn't seem worth it, considering the amount of money lost when driving out of the showroom, and when you could buy something 18 months old or so for often about half the new price. Here though, buying new does often make sense, because it is still worth something after a few years.

A plausible answer but maybe not on trucks here?

I have bought new full sized V8 trucks in the USA

for less than I paid for a 2 year old (at the time I bought it )

2010 Isuzu Dmax 4 door here in Thailand

I think the reason that people buy new as opposed to 2nd hand is financing. If you buy new then the company will finance it. Not everyone has $50,000 in cash lying around for a cash sale. Buying second hand almost always means paying cash for the vehicle.

This sure is a reason for many thai people. But thai people do not really like buying used. If they can effort it they buy new. I understand this. Its a good feeling to buy a new bike

[YipYipYa123]

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

youve never ridden a CBR 250 but your still qualified to say it vibrates worse than a CBR150 at the same speed ?

next .........

Edited March 10, 2013 by YipYipYa123

[GooEng]

Apart from the aforementioned reasons, I'm always worried when considering buying second hand smaller "sporty" bikes that the previous owner has done what I would have done with it if I'd owned it first - thrashed its guts out.

Sent from my iPad-mini.

[CBR250R]

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

youve never ridden a CBR 250 but your still qualified to say it vibrates worse than a CBR150 at the same speed ?

next .........

Actually - I own both - a 2011 CBR250R and a 2011 CBR150R. At slower speeds and low RPM - from my experience - the CBR250R is smoother and exhibits less vibration. However, at anything above 8000 RPM - I find the CBR150R smoother - all the way to redline. I find the CBR250R pretty rough from 8000 RPM to 10,500 RPM (redline). It's so torquey that you hardly ever need to rev it that high though. Good thing.

Mike

[Rolo Tomazi]

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

youve never ridden a CBR 250 but your still qualified to say it vibrates worse than a CBR150 at the same speed ?

next .........

You have to read with open eyes instead of jumping to conclusions and making flippant remarks.

I wrote "I bet", meaning that I strongly believe so. Obviously I am not qualified to say because I've never ridden one, as I stated. Do you follow?

A bigger cylinder means more mass which often leads to more vibration, especially if the bigger engine doesn't feature a counter balancer to smooth things out.

[CBR250R]

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

Have to take your word for it. Ridden bikes of that ilk when i was younger, before i had my big bike license, and hated them. For me, the thrill of going fast, is completely negated if i'm feeling uncomfortable and unsafe. Perhaps small bikes have come along some in the last decade or so, but i would be surprised if they have come along quite that far.

I'm not sure of the statistics regarding risk of mortality related to motorcycle riding in Thailand. However, in the U.S. the highest risk for motorcycle mortalities include 1. A large displacement bike (>500cc) 2. Speeding 3. Not wearing a helmet. 4. Riding under the influence of alcohol.

I posted this to another forum recently in response to a motorcycle review in the U.S. the once again naively suggested that small displacement bikes are dangerous and unsafe compared to larger displacement bikes.

I decided to informally examine the research related to this issue over the past couple of days - primarily perusing National Traffic Highway Safety Administration documents and data in the U.S. Nowhere in any of the data is there any mention or any inference suggesting that small displacement motorcycles are less safe than large displacement ones. In fact - the data suggest the opposite. Large displacement bikes carry a higher risk for fatalities.

The data are rife with statistics suggesting that the danger and risk lies primarily in purchasing large displacement bikes (over 500cc) even accounting for the number of bikes sold. And the most common risk factor involved in fatal motorcycle accidents is "speeding". Not wearing a helmet and alcohol consumption are also major contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities

in the data. Furthermore, according to the data, accelerating hard at high speeds on larger displacement bikes to avoid an accident (the inability to do so on a small displacement bike puts such bikes in danger according to claims) would likely increase your risk of a fatal accident as this would fall under "speeding" in the data.

Mike

[CBR250R]

Rolo Tomazi - if I didn't already have a 2011 CBR150R, I would buy your 2011 CBR150R immediately. I'm in Canada. I have a 2011 CBR250R AND a 2011 CBR150R (which is really a 2011 CBR125R with the Thai 150R engine swapped into it). Canada does not import the CBR150R. What I've discovered is that the CBR150R is so much more fun and engaging to ride than the CBR250R. I never ride my CBR250R anymore and I'm currently trying to sell it. Bigger displacement doesn't necessarily mean "more fun to ride". The CBR250R is really torquey - but feels relatively boring to ride - lacks an exciting top end.

There have been lots of inquiries here in Canada asking how one might be able to acquire the Thai 150R engine so a swap into the 125R chassis could be made. I was lucky enough to buy a used bike from Thailand and have just the engine and necessary components for the swap shipped to me. Around $2000 + shipping (CND) for the engine, throttle body, and other essentials is a fair deal when you can now buy a new CBR125R for $2299 (CND - one of the best buys currently in a new motorcycle in Canada in my opinion). It is a direct swap.

I know this doesn't help your cause - but in a perfect world you would sell the bike to a Canadian CBR125R owner, crate the engine and essentials and ship it out - then sell off all the extra parts of the bike (e.g., fuel tank, wheels, seat, fairings, etc) and probably make a profit off of it!

Mike

Right, you're not helping me much but you make my day by saying you would buy it...

People selling their Lifans for a decent price in two weeks and I don't get a call for a quality CBR - something's wrong with this picture!

Interesting that you say "bigger bikes doesn't mean more fun tom ride" - I agree, I've had 1400cc cruisers and 1000cc BMWs and found out that a light single can be more fun to ride.

A 250 Ninja can be quicker and more fun than a 650 - as long as you don't go touring.

qucker and more fun? i dont think so.......That must be some basket case 650. There is no way that would be the case unless the 650 was too much bike.

Perhaps quicker and more fun in the twisties or perhaps on a track. Not likely quicker or more fun when traveling in a straight line.

I just finished reading an article on Motorcycle-USA where the journalists tested the newest Ninjas including the Ninja 300, Ninja 600 and Ninja ZX-6R and ZX-10R. Guess which one the most experienced racers wanted to ride the most? The smallest bike. The Ninja 300. Why? See below.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/157/15730/Motorcycle-Article/Kawasaki-Ninja-Ride-Day.aspx

Quote: "Why would the most experienced riders on the track clamor for the slowest machine? Three letters – F, U, N. The lower power output brings the speed down to levels that lets the pilot concentrate on line selection, body position and momentum. One 20-minute session on a Ninja 300 will teach you more than an entire day on a ZX-10R.

Additionally the handling, despite non-adjustable suspension, is rock solid while being supremely agile. The braking performance is better than expected, although you won’t spend much time squeezing on the binders. Every bit of momentum is critical when racing a pack of Ninja 300s and you are the one being drafted. Even when matched against faster bikes, the 300 can stun you on how quickly it can lap a circuit.

So who is the Ninja 300 rider? Everybody – young, old, fat, skinny, slow or fast. You will never have so much fun on something that seems like it would be easily outpaced and outgrown. Smiles per dollar – the 2013 Kawasaki Ninja 300 is the champ every time."

[wantan]

I'm not sure of the statistics regarding risk of mortality related to motorcycle riding in Thailand. However, in the U.S. the highest risk for motorcycle mortalities include 1. A large displacement bike (>500cc) 2. Speeding 3. Not wearing a helmet. 4. Riding under the influence of alcohol.

I posted this to another forum recently in response to a motorcycle review in the U.S. the once again naively suggested that small displacement bikes are dangerous and unsafe compared to larger displacement bikes.

I decided to informally examine the research related to this issue over the past couple of days - primarily perusing National Traffic Highway Safety Administration documents and data in the U.S. Nowhere in any of the data is there any mention or any inference suggesting that small displacement motorcycles are less safe than large displacement ones. In fact - the data suggest the opposite. Large displacement bikes carry a higher risk for fatalities.

The data are rife with statistics suggesting that the danger and risk lies primarily in purchasing large displacement bikes (over 500cc) even accounting for the number of bikes sold. And the most common risk factor involved in fatal motorcycle accidents is "speeding". Not wearing a helmet and alcohol consumption are also major contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities

in the data. Furthermore, according to the data, accelerating hard at high speeds on larger displacement bikes to avoid an accident (the inability to do so on a small displacement bike puts such bikes in danger according to claims) would likely increase your risk of a fatal accident as this would fall under "speeding" in the data.

Mike

Don't know how this topic came up, but its interesting

I too have serious doubts that more power means more safety. The guys who claim this as a fact mostly also claim that they are experienced riders who will never make any mistake. This of course is absolutely theoretical and has nothing to do with reality. In reality the average speed of larger bikes is far above the speed of smaller bikes. And this means more risk to die.

But of course it depends on what streets you want to ride on with your bike. Here in Thailand you need a certain speed in certain conditions to ride safe. But this is not much different to other countries and for sure is never above 120kmh. So i consider a 250cc bike as safe as a 650cc bike.

[CBR250R]

I'm not sure of the statistics regarding risk of mortality related to motorcycle riding in Thailand. However, in the U.S. the highest risk for motorcycle mortalities include 1. A large displacement bike (>500cc) 2. Speeding 3. Not wearing a helmet. 4. Riding under the influence of alcohol.

I posted this to another forum recently in response to a motorcycle review in the U.S. the once again naively suggested that small displacement bikes are dangerous and unsafe compared to larger displacement bikes.

I decided to informally examine the research related to this issue over the past couple of days - primarily perusing National Traffic Highway Safety Administration documents and data in the U.S. Nowhere in any of the data is there any mention or any inference suggesting that small displacement motorcycles are less safe than large displacement ones. In fact - the data suggest the opposite. Large displacement bikes carry a higher risk for fatalities.

The data are rife with statistics suggesting that the danger and risk lies primarily in purchasing large displacement bikes (over 500cc) even accounting for the number of bikes sold. And the most common risk factor involved in fatal motorcycle accidents is "speeding". Not wearing a helmet and alcohol consumption are also major contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities

in the data. Furthermore, according to the data, accelerating hard at high speeds on larger displacement bikes to avoid an accident (the inability to do so on a small displacement bike puts such bikes in danger according to claims) would likely increase your risk of a fatal accident as this would fall under "speeding" in the data.

Mike

Don't know how this topic came up, but its interesting

I too have serious doubts that more power means more safety. The guys who claim this as a fact mostly also claim that they are experienced riders who will never make any mistake. This of course is absolutely theoretical and has nothing to do with reality. In reality the average speed of larger bikes is far above the speed of smaller bikes. And this means more risk to die.

But of course it depends on what streets you want to ride on with your bike. Here in Thailand you need a certain speed in certain conditions to ride safe. But this is not much different to other countries and for sure is never above 120kmh. So i consider a 250cc bike as safe as a 650cc bike.

My apologies - I believe I replied to the wrong posting. It was supposed to be a response to Rivalex's mention about safety and small displacement motorcycles.

Mike

[rixalex]

Have to take your word for it. Ridden bikes of that ilk when i was younger, before i had my big bike license, and hated them. For me, the thrill of going fast, is completely negated if i'm feeling uncomfortable and unsafe. Perhaps small bikes have come along some in the last decade or so, but i would be surprised if they have come along quite that far.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

I'm not sure of the statistics regarding risk of mortality related to motorcycle riding in Thailand. However, in the U.S. the highest risk for motorcycle mortalities include 1. A large displacement bike (>500cc) 2. Speeding 3. Not wearing a helmet. 4. Riding under the influence of alcohol.

I posted this to another forum recently in response to a motorcycle review in the U.S. the once again naively suggested that small displacement bikes are dangerous and unsafe compared to larger displacement bikes.

I decided to informally examine the research related to this issue over the past couple of days - primarily perusing National Traffic Highway Safety Administration documents and data in the U.S. Nowhere in any of the data is there any mention or any inference suggesting that small displacement motorcycles are less safe than large displacement ones. In fact - the data suggest the opposite. Large displacement bikes carry a higher risk for fatalities.

The data are rife with statistics suggesting that the danger and risk lies primarily in purchasing large displacement bikes (over 500cc) even accounting for the number of bikes sold. And the most common risk factor involved in fatal motorcycle accidents is "speeding". Not wearing a helmet and alcohol consumption are also major contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities

in the data. Furthermore, according to the data, accelerating hard at high speeds on larger displacement bikes to avoid an accident (the inability to do so on a small displacement bike puts such bikes in danger according to claims) would likely increase your risk of a fatal accident as this would fall under "speeding" in the data.

Mike

Usually i think the problems that lead to accidents aren't down to the bike or the car a person is driving, but down to the way that they ride or drive it. When you look at statistics for any given time, you will see certain cars and bikes that on the face of it appear very dangerous judging by the number of accidents they are involved in, but i don't think it really has much to do with the car or the bike, but to do with the fact that a certain sort of rider or driver is attracted to buy that particular car or bike, and drive it in a certain manner.

For my own choice or car and bike, i prefer making my judgement not based on a list of stats, but based on how i feel when i ride or drive it, and if a bike or car feels dangerous to me, i'm not going to be inclined to buy it, no matter what the stats say.

All that said, it sounds like from the comments on here that small bikes no longer feel as unstable and jittery as they used to, when i last ride one, so if i was looking to buy a bike now, i would certainly want to ride them all before making any decisions about what sort of size to go for.

[JonnyF]

It doesn't necessarily depend on the size of the engine. A top end sports bike has incredible brakes, is light, extremely stable and turns on sixpence, all of which helps avoids accidents if ridden responsibly.

I've ridden a couple of big cruisers on the other hand that have scared me doing as little as 100 kph. The lack of agility and braking power was shocking, it stopped and turned like a ferry. I'd hate for something to pull out on me riding one of these beasts, I'm pretty sure my Cowboy outfit would have been ruined...

I'd argue that the capability of the bike to stop and turn is more significant than the size of the engine.

[Phronesis]

I'm not sure of the statistics regarding risk of mortality related to motorcycle riding in Thailand. However, in the U.S. the highest risk for motorcycle mortalities include 1. A large displacement bike (>500cc) 2. Speeding 3. Not wearing a helmet. 4. Riding under the influence of alcohol.

I posted this to another forum recently in response to a motorcycle review in the U.S. the once again naively suggested that small displacement bikes are dangerous and unsafe compared to larger displacement bikes.

I decided to informally examine the research related to this issue over the past couple of days - primarily perusing National Traffic Highway Safety Administration documents and data in the U.S. Nowhere in any of the data is there any mention or any inference suggesting that small displacement motorcycles are less safe than large displacement ones. In fact - the data suggest the opposite. Large displacement bikes carry a higher risk for fatalities.

The data are rife with statistics suggesting that the danger and risk lies primarily in purchasing large displacement bikes (over 500cc) even accounting for the number of bikes sold. And the most common risk factor involved in fatal motorcycle accidents is "speeding". Not wearing a helmet and alcohol consumption are also major contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities

in the data. Furthermore, according to the data, accelerating hard at high speeds on larger displacement bikes to avoid an accident (the inability to do so on a small displacement bike puts such bikes in danger according to claims) would likely increase your risk of a fatal accident as this would fall under "speeding" in the data.

Mike

Don't know how this topic came up, but its interesting

I too have serious doubts that more power means more safety. The guys who claim this as a fact mostly also claim that they are experienced riders who will never make any mistake. This of course is absolutely theoretical and has nothing to do with reality. In reality the average speed of larger bikes is far above the speed of smaller bikes. And this means more risk to die.

But of course it depends on what streets you want to ride on with your bike. Here in Thailand you need a certain speed in certain conditions to ride safe. But this is not much different to other countries and for sure is never above 120kmh. So i consider a 250cc bike as safe as a 650cc bike.

Wantan is absolutely correct here.

After a lifetime on bikes, and three years riding here in Phuket, it is my opinion that an upright riding position bike of 250cc is absolutely the best choice for the island.

Enough power to get you out, or away, from any potential risk, but not enough encourage your fangs and facial hair to appear too often.

The only plausible arguments for a bigger CC ride are chronic obesity, vanity, or perhaps frequent long distance trips.

That said, I regularly ride up to Ranong, and down to Krabi and Trang and would suggest that a cruise speed anywhere in excess of 110km on any road in Thailand is tantamount to playing Russian roulette with FIVE bullets in the gun.

[Rolo Tomazi]

I'm not sure of the statistics regarding risk of mortality related to motorcycle riding in Thailand. However, in the U.S. the highest risk for motorcycle mortalities include 1. A large displacement bike (>500cc) 2. Speeding 3. Not wearing a helmet. 4. Riding under the influence of alcohol.

I posted this to another forum recently in response to a motorcycle review in the U.S. the once again naively suggested that small displacement bikes are dangerous and unsafe compared to larger displacement bikes.

I decided to informally examine the research related to this issue over the past couple of days - primarily perusing National Traffic Highway Safety Administration documents and data in the U.S. Nowhere in any of the data is there any mention or any inference suggesting that small displacement motorcycles are less safe than large displacement ones. In fact - the data suggest the opposite. Large displacement bikes carry a higher risk for fatalities.

The data are rife with statistics suggesting that the danger and risk lies primarily in purchasing large displacement bikes (over 500cc) even accounting for the number of bikes sold. And the most common risk factor involved in fatal motorcycle accidents is "speeding". Not wearing a helmet and alcohol consumption are also major contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities

in the data. Furthermore, according to the data, accelerating hard at high speeds on larger displacement bikes to avoid an accident (the inability to do so on a small displacement bike puts such bikes in danger according to claims) would likely increase your risk of a fatal accident as this would fall under "speeding" in the data.

Mike

Don't know how this topic came up, but its interesting

I too have serious doubts that more power means more safety. The guys who claim this as a fact mostly also claim that they are experienced riders who will never make any mistake. This of course is absolutely theoretical and has nothing to do with reality. In reality the average speed of larger bikes is far above the speed of smaller bikes. And this means more risk to die.

But of course it depends on what streets you want to ride on with your bike. Here in Thailand you need a certain speed in certain conditions to ride safe. But this is not much different to other countries and for sure is never above 120kmh. So i consider a 250cc bike as safe as a 650cc bike.

Wantan is absolutely correct here.

After a lifetime on bikes, and three years riding here in Phuket, it is my opinion that an upright riding position bike of 250cc is absolutely the best choice for the island.

Enough power to get you out, or away, from any potential risk, but not enough encourage your fangs and facial hair to appear too often.

The only plausible arguments for a bigger CC ride are chronic obesity, vanity, or perhaps frequent long distance trips.

That said, I regularly ride up to Ranong, and down to Krabi and Trang and would suggest that a cruise speed anywhere in excess of 110km on any road in Thailand is tantamount to playing Russian roulette with FIVE bullets in the gun.

Finally someone I can wholeheartedly agree with! I spent 2 years on Phuket and my Nouvo 135 was fine for daily traffic; the small size has a lot of advantages, you can squeeze through that sometimes terrible traffic on a slim bike like that. Three lanes hundreds of feet long at a red light, you want to filter to the front and take off as soon as the light turns green. Even a 250 Ninja couldn't get through and has to wait. What's the use of all the power when you have Diesel trucks surrounding you? I feel sorry for the farang who rent sport bikes and big fat cruisers in Patong and then sit frying in the sun, stuck in traffic. Of course as soon as you're on the bypass or on the way up to the airport or off the island the fun starts, but you have to get there first.

Even if you go up to Ranong or down to Krabi and Trang it's very risky to open up a big bike. There are lots of stretches where you could open up to 150km/h and more if you wanted to, but with cars and MC pulling out of driveways and side streets, oncoming traffic overtaking and blocking your lane, dips and bumps in the road when you're leaning into corners and more, you've got a 50/50 chance to arrive at your destiny. I've taken the Nouvo from Songkhla to Phuket three times, 485km on one day, and several times avoided an accident only because I was able to slow down quickly enough. I bought my CBR150R in Phuket and rode it back to Songkhla, it was much more fun but not as comfortable. I bought it because it is a good compromise; if you look at power, top speed, fuel consumption and sticker price the little CBR is hard to beat!

For two years I had a VTR250 in Hua Hin. Lots of fun, I felt like I'm on a CBR600 between all those 110/125cc bikes. At a light I'd outaccelerated everything, of course not bigger bikes. I took it on trips, cruising at an indicated 120km/h with power left to zip up to 140 if needed. I realized a 250 with 25 hp is all I need! Of course a bit more power and cc would not hurt but I didn't feel like I should have a CB400 that can go 180km/h. I loved that little V twin and the sound it made. I would have preferred a more upright seating position, softer suspension and more agility in the city. The CRF250L offers that, and having owned an XR650L and a DR650SE I know I could buy one and be happy with it. Since I don't do much off-road the CRF250M is the perfect bike for me in TH as soon as it comes out. My dream bike would be If Honda would take the VTR engine instead of the CRF single, bored out to 300cc, with 30hp and lots of midrange.

[rookball]

i guess the demand isnt there for 150cc. i too have a 2012 cbr150, previously owned the older ninja250 and still have my old tzm and african twin. the only thing i could really complain about the cbr150 is that going anywhere steep is a terror especially with a pillion, the same thing goes to my old ninja250, other than that i think its a perfect commuter and dont find much a differences between my older ninja 250. ok, maybe i dont red line often =) maybe one more thing, i expected the f/c to be slighter better for a 150cc. maybe its running in but i get 24-26km/l which i considered to be on a lower side for a 150cc compared to my twin with 16-18km/l

the only thing about 150-250 cc is the lack of power going uphill. i make trips from chiang mai over maehongson loop often and with the cbr150 and ninja250, one would actually feel vulnerable and thats when i believe a bigger cc bike come into play.