Us Masters

[isawasnake]

You:

Done it many times myself when a ball has moved slightly or a branch has broken during a practice swing. That's what makes golf different, and in my view, better because the golfer is seen to be above reproach.

Golfers: so much better than athletes in any other sport. Beyond reproach, as nobody plays honest anymore. (who are you guys, seriously? Elucidate to me how golfers are somehow above other athletes, because they are the only athletes to police themselves?)

Tiger: has now ruined the entire sport for everybody

Lucky will still have people like you.

You obviously haven't played golf seriously.

Serious golfers pulling penalties on themselves are a dime a dozen. It is a rare few that don't.

Oh man. What a false sense of superiority. So, golfers are somehow better than other athletes. It is really fun and great and all to make claims like this without any evidence other than, "I saw so and so penalize himself," but it doesn't hold any weight......

Think about it. First, how do you know the players calling penalties on themselves don't feel there may be a camera on them? So, could be self preservation. When only the golfer is there to see the penalty, how would we ever know if he did or did not do the right thing?? The observations will necessarily be skewed towards seeing players do good, because you'd never hear about the incidents that were not. Right? I think this is a bunch of unsubstantiated elitism. I'd argue that the mere fact that SOME players attempt to raise themselves above other sportsman in this fashion lowers them to some extent.

A true sportsman doesn't need to proclaim "I am morally superior". Your "evidence" being, "guys who do the right thing in golf are a dime a dozen". Your ridiculous inference: in other sports these sporty athletes don't exist? You just can't be serious. Humans are humans, and in any group the good and bad behaviors are going to be about equal for the most part. Golf has a lot of money to help substantiate a good image. Good for golf, but don't try to BS people with this alleged moral elitism of its players. Please, give me a break.

One last thing I will note, golf is a sport in which there is quite a bit of money at the top. Assuming what has been said about golfers being "beyond reproach" is true for the moment, put them in some dire straights financially and I guarantee you that you would see a different picture. Think "if I call this foul on myself, my daughter doesn't eat".... yeah, you'd see all the moral character right there if golf was unfortunate enough to be poorly endowed financially. Deny it all you want, but it's true. Golfers aint no better or worse than other athletes; they have a good thing going, are smart enough to realize it, and act accordingly, and the tour is smart enough to really keep them in line to maintain that false image of elitism - I will agree with that much.

Anyway, I missed it, I should have got the link from Forethat. I woke up early and could not find it, before I knew it, it was over

Edited April 15, 2013 by isawasnake

[isawasnake]

Having read the link given in post #139 I can see no reason (aside from financial) why he should not have been disqualified. The officials, in my opinion, have just made themselves look daft arriving at this decision as they simply have not followed their own rules and seem to have made up circumstances to be able to bend them. As for the previous comments claiming tennis players would never overrule the officials to their own detriment, well it happens all the time - especially on key points.

You ruined a nice post, lol.

It was never said that players never reverse calls against themselves, please read if you want to participate.

Of course tennis players have done that. BUT, point being, if a tennis player did not overrule a call on a single occasion, can you claim him to be a cheater or of poor moral character? That is the question. So....can you? Of course not. So, your point is lost really, not even sure what it is. The initial point was you can't hold it against a player for not overruling an official as you are not in his shoes and have no idea what he observed.

Edited April 15, 2013 by isawasnake

[keemapoot]

Well, after all this Tiger drama, a very inspiring ending with an Aussie finally winning. So gracious, he gave thanks to the Shark, the Aussie my generation of Americans best remembers and was inspired by:

"Australian is a proud sporting nation, and this is one notch in the belt we never got," Scott said. "It's amazing that it came down to me today. But there's one guy who inspired a nation of golfers, and that's Greg Norman. He's been incredible to me and all the great golfers. Part of this belongs to him."

[Dorkers]

Great finish, the rain was coming down and it turned into a dog fight there at the end. I had Thai Commentary and couldn't figure out if Scott had actually thought he had won it with the putt on 18. Great celebration.

I noticed that in Butler's cabin the first thing that the August Chairman did was thank all the TV viewers in the states and around the world. Then he handed over to CBS Jim Nantz in the cabin to have exclusive first crack at the winner. All covered under 'tradition'.

They just eat up the cash from the TV folk.

Small Adam Scott anecdote for you, he was playing at the Vines in Perth for a tournament - Johnny Walker or the Heineken, can't remember the name. He was up there on the leaderboard on the Sunday. He played 9 holes that morning at my home course in Perth before heading out the vines. He told the club that my home course's greens were the better than the Vines. I played at my course on the Saturday, either he was just being very nice with that comment or he was on crack.

[isawasnake]

Well, after all this Tiger drama, a very inspiring ending with an Aussie finally winning. So gracious, he gave thanks to the Shark, the Aussie my generation of Americans best remembers and was inspired by:

"Australian is a proud sporting nation, and this is one notch in the belt we never got," Scott said. "It's amazing that it came down to me today. But there's one guy who inspired a nation of golfers, and that's Greg Norman. He's been incredible to me and all the great golfers. Part of this belongs to him."

He was my favorite player when I used to play as a kid, and I wasn't even an Aussie. Gotta love his style.

[chuckd]

Congratulations to Adam Scott and the Aussies. I had him on my yahoo golf fantasy team and he gave me 78 points.

One last point on the Tiger drama. A photo released today on Yahoo shows Tiger really hit from the same spot he originally hit from and did not move back, as he claimed. Maybe photo shopped, I dunno.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--photos-show-tiger-woods-may-not-have-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html;_ylt=Ak9URGSCcBAFJUDOZatejnk5nYcB;_ylu=X3oDMTVpcWZpdGVpBG1pdANMSVNUUyBNaXhlZCBJdGVtcyBDYXJvdXNlbCBTUE9SVFMgRlJPTlQgUEFHRSBFZGl0b3JzIFBpY2tzBHBrZwMxMDA4OGM0Zi1iNTA1LTNlNzItYTEwZS0xMmU2ZjM4YzM0OGEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA01lZGlhQkNhcm91c2VsTWl4ZWRMUENBBHZlcgNkYzk1NGI5My1hNTczLTExZTItYTk3ZS01ZTRhYmI1NzM0N2I-;_ylg=X3oDMTFkcW51ZGliBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3BtaA--;_ylv=3

[Forethat]

Congratulations to Adam Scott and the Aussies. I had him on my yahoo golf fantasy team and he gave me 78 points.

One last point on the Tiger drama. A photo released today on Yahoo shows Tiger really hit from the same spot he originally hit from and did not move back, as he claimed. Maybe photo shopped, I dunno.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--photos-show-tiger-woods-may-not-have-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html;_ylt=Ak9URGSCcBAFJUDOZatejnk5nYcB;_ylu=X3oDMTVpcWZpdGVpBG1pdANMSVNUUyBNaXhlZCBJdGVtcyBDYXJvdXNlbCBTUE9SVFMgRlJPTlQgUEFHRSBFZGl0b3JzIFBpY2tzBHBrZwMxMDA4OGM0Zi1iNTA1LTNlNzItYTEwZS0xMmU2ZjM4YzM0OGEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA01lZGlhQkNhcm91c2VsTWl4ZWRMUENBBHZlcgNkYzk1NGI5My1hNTczLTExZTItYTk3ZS01ZTRhYmI1NzM0N2I-;_ylg=X3oDMTFkcW51ZGliBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3BtaA--;_ylv=3

Wow...now we're up for a proper rules conundrum...

A final point on the Guan incident earlier (Guan was penalised for slow play):

Guans round was just over 4 hours (+4 minutes), almost exactly the time stipulated by the Tournament...

In addition, when Guan was warned by fat boy Paramor as they walked down the 17th fairway, the group behind them was still on the 15th green...needless to say, the group behind them was neither warned nor penalised for slow play.

[chuckd]

Congratulations to Adam Scott and the Aussies. I had him on my yahoo golf fantasy team and he gave me 78 points.

One last point on the Tiger drama. A photo released today on Yahoo shows Tiger really hit from the same spot he originally hit from and did not move back, as he claimed. Maybe photo shopped, I dunno.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--photos-show-tiger-woods-may-not-have-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html;_ylt=Ak9URGSCcBAFJUDOZatejnk5nYcB;_ylu=X3oDMTVpcWZpdGVpBG1pdANMSVNUUyBNaXhlZCBJdGVtcyBDYXJvdXNlbCBTUE9SVFMgRlJPTlQgUEFHRSBFZGl0b3JzIFBpY2tzBHBrZwMxMDA4OGM0Zi1iNTA1LTNlNzItYTEwZS0xMmU2ZjM4YzM0OGEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA01lZGlhQkNhcm91c2VsTWl4ZWRMUENBBHZlcgNkYzk1NGI5My1hNTczLTExZTItYTk3ZS01ZTRhYmI1NzM0N2I-;_ylg=X3oDMTFkcW51ZGliBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3BtaA--;_ylv=3

Wow...now we're up for a proper rules conundrum...

A final point on the Guan incident earlier (Guan was penalised for slow play):

Guans round was just over 4 hours (+4 minutes), almost exactly the time stipulated by the Tournament...

In addition, when Guan was warned by fat boy Paramor as they walked down the 17th fairway, the group behind them was still on the 15th green...needless to say, the group behind them was neither warned nor penalised for slow play.

Agreed. I thought the slow play penalty was rather baseless at the time.

[FDog]

You:

Done it many times myself when a ball has moved slightly or a branch has broken during a practice swing. That's what makes golf different, and in my view, better because the golfer is seen to be above reproach.

Golfers: so much better than athletes in any other sport. Beyond reproach, as nobody plays honest anymore. (who are you guys, seriously? Elucidate to me how golfers are somehow above other athletes, because they are the only athletes to police themselves?)

Tiger: has now ruined the entire sport for everybody

Lucky will still have people like you.

You obviously haven't played golf seriously.

Serious golfers pulling penalties on themselves are a dime a dozen. It is a rare few that don't.

Oh man. What a false sense of superiority. So, golfers are somehow better than other athletes. It is really fun and great and all to make claims like this without any evidence other than, "I saw so and so penalize himself," but it doesn't hold any weight......

Think about it. First, how do you know the players calling penalties on themselves don't feel there may be a camera on them? So, could be self preservation. When only the golfer is there to see the penalty, how would we ever know if he did or did not do the right thing?? The observations will necessarily be skewed towards seeing players do good, because you'd never hear about the incidents that were not. Right? I think this is a bunch of unsubstantiated elitism. I'd argue that the mere fact that SOME players attempt to raise themselves above other sportsman in this fashion lowers them to some extent.

A true sportsman doesn't need to proclaim "I am morally superior". Your "evidence" being, "guys who do the right thing in golf are a dime a dozen". Your ridiculous inference: in other sports these sporty athletes don't exist? You just can't be serious. Humans are humans, and in any group the good and bad behaviors are going to be about equal for the most part. Golf has a lot of money to help substantiate a good image. Good for golf, but don't try to BS people with this alleged moral elitism of its players. Please, give me a break.

One last thing I will note, golf is a sport in which there is quite a bit of money at the top. Assuming what has been said about golfers being "beyond reproach" is true for the moment, put them in some dire straights financially and I guarantee you that you would see a different picture. Think "if I call this foul on myself, my daughter doesn't eat".... yeah, you'd see all the moral character right there if golf was unfortunate enough to be poorly endowed financially. Deny it all you want, but it's true. Golfers aint no better or worse than other athletes; they have a good thing going, are smart enough to realize it, and act accordingly, and the tour is smart enough to really keep them in line to maintain that false image of elitism - I will agree with that much.

Anyway, I missed it, I should have got the link from Forethat. I woke up early and could not find it, before I knew it, it was over

You really have no clue. It has nothing to do with the money or the tv cameras.

It is amatateur golfers playing in competitions that put penalties on themselves. No money, no cameras. Happens all the time. No one knows of the rules breach except the player. He tells his marker of the breach and cops the penalty.

That's what golfers do. Can you tell me of other sportsmen that do that?

Of course you do get some players that may break a rule and think no one saw them and not mention it. If found out they are quickly pulled up and are shamed and soon find they have no partners to play with. They are labelled cheats and there is nothing worse than that.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule.....Tiger.

[FDog]

Fantastic for Scott. The way he handled the disappointed of the British Open implosion should be a lesson to every sportsman on how to conduct themselves.

Huge thumbs up for his fantastic win. Finally the monkey of the aussies back for Augusta.

[valrhona]

Congratulations to Adam Scott and the Aussies. I had him on my yahoo golf fantasy team and he gave me 78 points.

One last point on the Tiger drama. A photo released today on Yahoo shows Tiger really hit from the same spot he originally hit from and did not move back, as he claimed. Maybe photo shopped, I dunno.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--photos-show-tiger-woods-may-not-have-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html;_ylt=Ak9URGSCcBAFJUDOZatejnk5nYcB;_ylu=X3oDMTVpcWZpdGVpBG1pdANMSVNUUyBNaXhlZCBJdGVtcyBDYXJvdXNlbCBTUE9SVFMgRlJPTlQgUEFHRSBFZGl0b3JzIFBpY2tzBHBrZwMxMDA4OGM0Zi1iNTA1LTNlNzItYTEwZS0xMmU2ZjM4YzM0OGEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA01lZGlhQkNhcm91c2VsTWl4ZWRMUENBBHZlcgNkYzk1NGI5My1hNTczLTExZTItYTk3ZS01ZTRhYmI1NzM0N2I-;_ylg=X3oDMTFkcW51ZGliBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3BtaA--;_ylv=3

Wow...now we're up for a proper rules conundrum...

A final point on the Guan incident earlier (Guan was penalised for slow play):

Guans round was just over 4 hours (+4 minutes), almost exactly the time stipulated by the Tournament...

In addition, when Guan was warned by fat boy Paramor as they walked down the 17th fairway, the group behind them was still on the 15th green...needless to say, the group behind them was neither warned nor penalised for slow play.

Agreed. I thought the slow play penalty was rather baseless at the time.

Much easier to pick on a 14 year old chinese kid than on someone like Woods. If that kid had done the same as Woods...How many thinks he would have been allowed to remain?

[farangme]

Woods is a cheat. He admitted to knowingly dropping two yards from the original spot because it was a better distance for him. Should have been DQ'd, plain and simple.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[yabbra]

Dont forget Phil Mickelson who has a great record at the Masters and the Aussie boy Adam Scott.

What a wonderful Sunday at Augusta it was! Classic back 9 & playoff, major championship duel...Especially with the rain coming down & darkness approaching as well...So lets salute Australia's first ever US Masters champion after 77 long years of trying - Adam Scott!

[chuckd]

Woods is a cheat. He admitted to knowingly dropping two yards from the original spot because it was a better distance for him. Should have been DQ'd, plain and simple. Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would you care to provide us some links to support your allegation that "Woods is a cheat"?

He has been playing golf on a very high profile scene since he was 15 years old and I have never heard him being accused of cheating.

Everybody uses the rules to their benefit when they can, as they should. That is hardly cheating.

Gary Player on the other hand.....

[FDog]

Woods is a cheat. He admitted to knowingly dropping two yards from the original spot because it was a better distance for him. Should have been DQ'd, plain and simple. Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would you care to provide us some links to support your allegation that "Woods is a cheat"?

He has been playing golf on a very high profile scene since he was 15 years old and I have never heard him being accused of cheating.

Everybody uses the rules to their benefit when they can, as they should. That is hardly cheating.

Gary Player on the other hand.....

What did GP do?

[Forethat]

Woods is a cheat. He admitted to knowingly dropping two yards from the original spot because it was a better distance for him. Should have been DQ'd, plain and simple. Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would you care to provide us some links to support your allegation that "Woods is a cheat"?

There are numerous examples of when Tiger "bends" the rules. Tiger doesn't "brake" the rules.

[Forethat]

Doesn't matter what the officials say, the rule they have applied doesn't apply. It's a fabrication.

Rule 33-7 can only be applied when a player is not aware he has breached a rule because of facts that he did not know and could not reasonably have discovered prior to returning his score card. In cases like this, the player still receives the penalty associated with the breach of the underlying rule, but is not disqualified.

What is it about Tigers breach of rules (he broke two rules before breaking a third rule by signing and returning an incorrect scorecard) that he "could not reasonably have discovered"..??

"In the spirit of the game"...? Masters and Augusta is a JOKE. I can only imagine Bobby Jones is spinning in his grave right now...

So now you have inappropriately digressed to the fact that "official rulings don't matter". Nice statement.

It's an accurate statement. The rule they have referred to cannot be applied in this case.

I should mention I'm a referee myself.

As I mentioned earlier, there is a danger that this can create a spooky precedence. The process (for those of you who doesn't know, and I presume most of you dont) in cases like this is that the Tournament Leader informs R&A and USGA about the decisions during the tournament. These tournament decisions often creates the presidencies and rulings that ends up in the decision book.

I should also tell you that with every group follows a rules official. If you make a drop, the rules official will be there to check that you drop accordingly. You also have the option to ask him, or call for a referee if you are not sure about the process or rules. What COULD have happened in this case is that the rules official in the group checked the drop and didn't point out that there was something wrong. If Tiger has asked, he would have been in the clear, BUT HE DIDN'T ASK. For this reason, Tiger is responsible. And later someone points out that there was a problem with the drop, and Masters Tournament is in danger of losing face. This opens for the possibility that that the Tournament Officials feels responsible for the situation and claims they should have told Tiger he was in breach of a rule.

The problem is there's no such thing as "apologies for not telling you that you broke the rule", it's your own responsibility to make sure you dont. And in this case it means disqualification.

I hope this explains it.

And the reply from R&A came even sooner than I expected. In cases like this, it's nice to see that I was 100% accurate.

The official message from the guys who write the rules (R&A).

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2013/April/Woods-Two-Stroke-Penalty-at-The-Masters.aspx

For an explanation of the two stroke penalty applied to Tiger Woods at the Masters, please refer to the official statement from Augusta.

Contrary to some reports, Decision 33-7/4.5 (Competitor Unaware of Penalty Returns Wrong Score; Whether Waiving or Modifying Disqualification Penalty Justified) was not applicable in this case.

Just as Forethat said earlier.

I hate to be the one who to tell you "I told you so", but.....I told you so.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Forethat

[chuckd]

Woods is a cheat. He admitted to knowingly dropping two yards from the original spot because it was a better distance for him. Should have been DQ'd, plain and simple. Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would you care to provide us some links to support your allegation that "Woods is a cheat"?

He has been playing golf on a very high profile scene since he was 15 years old and I have never heard him being accused of cheating.

Everybody uses the rules to their benefit when they can, as they should. That is hardly cheating.

Gary Player on the other hand.....

What did GP do?

There were two incidents during the final round of the 1974 Open Championship at Royal Lytham.

1. On the 71st hole (the 17th) Player hit his approach shot into deep rough behind the green. The players searched for it and even some spectators helped but they were unable to find it until just prior to the 5 minute search ending. His caddy allegedly found it at the last moment even though the ground where it was found had been gone over by others. Rumors have persisted that his caddy, Rabbit Dyer, dropped one from his pocket.

2. On the next hole, his approach to the green went over the green and came to rest in a sandy spot immediately beside the Royal Lytham Clubhouse. He had no shot right handed but did have a putt if he hit it left handed. Player walked up to his ball, placed his putter behind the ball and, when he removed his putter, the back of the putter had miraculously become loaded with loose sand from behind his ball, which he tossed away, thereby improving his lie. He then addressed his ball but backed away to ask the patrons in the clubhouse to remain still while he completed his shot. He re-addressed his ball and made quite a good putt left handed. Alas, I am unable to find a video anywhere on the internet that shows everything from the time he arrives at his ball until he putts. The internet has been scrubbed as far as I can find.

I later talked to a golf pro about it and he saw it too. Said the same thing I said. He improved his lie and got away with it. I watched this on TV and screamed at the TV set. Rather like my wife, the set ignored me completely.

3. Player has been accused by Tom Watson of removing something from behind his ball at a Skin's Game and I have heard over the years several instances where Player tamped grass down in the rough to give himself a better chance at a good shot.

Google it, let me know what you come up with.

[chuckd]

Woods is a cheat. He admitted to knowingly dropping two yards from the original spot because it was a better distance for him. Should have been DQ'd, plain and simple. Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would you care to provide us some links to support your allegation that "Woods is a cheat"?

There are numerous examples of when Tiger "bends" the rules. Tiger doesn't "brake" the rules.

I know the difference between "brakes" and "breaks" so your little aside has no meaning to me. Somebody else used it, not me.

Moving the boulder is the incident on my mind when I said the following:

"Everybody uses the rules to their benefit when they can, as they should. That is hardly cheating."

You conveniently seem to have overlooked that part of my post.

[Forethat]

Rather like my wife, the set ignored me completely.

[rene123]

Who gives a xxxx about Tiger. He didn't get in the playoff. Focus on the positive that 3 Australians were in the final 4 and Adam Scott finally won a major. It was almost too bad that Angel Cabrera had to lose for Scott to win. Both played wonderful golf. I doubt if Woods will ever win another major. Us women have a distracting influence on men. Look what happened to Rory McIllroy once he met that cute tennis star. He hasn't been the same since.

Edited April 16, 2013 by metisdead

[chuckd]

Who gives a xxxx about Tiger. He didn't get in the playoff. Focus on the positive that 3 Australians were in the final 4 and Adam Scott finally won a major. It was almost too bad that Angel Cabrera had to lose for Scott to win. Both played wonderful golf. I doubt if Woods will ever win another major. Us women have a distracting influence on men. Look what happened to Rory McIllroy once he met that cute tennis star. He hasn't been the same since.

Rory's girl friend is from Denmark and Tiger's wife was from Sweden.

[yabbra]

Who gives a xxxx about Tiger. He didn't get in the playoff. Focus on the positive that 3 Australians were in the final 4 and Adam Scott finally won a major. It was almost too bad that Angel Cabrera had to lose for Scott to win. Both played wonderful golf. I doubt if Woods will ever win another major. Us women have a distracting influence on men. Look what happened to Rory McIllroy once he met that cute tennis star. He hasn't been the same since.

Here here

[Forethat]

Woods is a cheat. He admitted to knowingly dropping two yards from the original spot because it was a better distance for him. Should have been DQ'd, plain and simple. Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would you care to provide us some links to support your allegation that "Woods is a cheat"?

There are numerous examples of when Tiger "bends" the rules. Tiger doesn't "brake" the rules.

I know the difference between "brakes" and "breaks" so your little aside has no meaning to me. Somebody else used it, not me. Moving the boulder is the incident on my mind when I said the following: "Everybody uses the rules to their benefit when they can, as they should. That is hardly cheating." You conveniently seem to have overlooked that part of my post.

And you seem to have overlooked the part of my post where I clearly admits Tiger abides by the rules.

And if you feel it's required, I do apologize for spelling errors that might make you feel uncomfortable.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Forethat

[dogpoo]

Who gives a xxxx about Tiger. He didn't get in the playoff. Focus on the positive that 3 Australians were in the final 4 and Adam Scott finally won a major. It was almost too bad that Angel Cabrera had to lose for Scott to win. Both played wonderful golf. I doubt if Woods will ever win another major. Us women have a distracting influence on men. Look what happened to Rory McIllroy once he met that cute tennis star. He hasn't been the same since.

I am also thinking Rory's relationship is playing a big part in this recent slump! and who could blame him for being distracted, she is a cracker!!

[valrhona]

I think Woods ex wife would have an issue with someone saying he's not a cheater

[cardholder]

Dont forget Phil Mickelson who has a great record at the Masters and the Aussie boy Adam Scott.

What a wonderful Sunday at Augusta it was! Classic back 9 & playoff, major championship duel...Especially with the rain coming down & darkness approaching as well...So lets salute Australia's first ever US Masters champion after 77 long years of trying - Adam Scott!

Hear hear.

He has been knocking on the door for some time and he can now shed the 'choker' cloak forever. Something , unfortunately, that the hugely likeable Greg Norman cannot.

Re: Tiger.

Although the ruling was wrong, in my view, there is an overall sense of justice. First - how unlucky was Woods with the shot that hit the flagstick. Second, I don't think he sought any 'advantage' from his drop error - he went further back (admittedly to suit himself) and he or his caddie should have been aware of the correct drop procedure.

The 8 for that hole effectively put him out of the competition and the 2 shot penalty just covered the officials' error in their initial judgement. They would arguably have been better to stand stubbornly by that decision that no offence had occurred.

[Dorkers]

.

He has been knocking on the door for some time and he can now shed the 'choker' cloak forever. Something , unfortunately, that the hugely likeable Greg Norman cannot.

I beg to differ that Adam Scott has ever been seen as a choker. The last 4 holes in the British Open was a product of one bad shot on each hole. At the Open, one bad shot = bogey. The course was very penal and the whole field suffered those incidents in the event, his turn was on the last 4 holes.

I would agree that Greg choked the 96 Masters, Rory choked last year in the masters. To me a choke is when you see the finish line and you majorly cock up... Scott didn't choke, ok he didn't win, but watching it , on that course even leading with 4 holes to go, it was never case closed that he was going to win. The course dictated it. Mcdowell hit a massive snap hook with 3 holes do go, Snedeker also had a triple in the last round, Tiger spent 2 or 3 in 1 bunker - from memory. Scott had none of that. He landed in the wrong spots and course management cost him, same as every other golfer on that course at some stage, a good shot in the wrong spot can cost you.

The mother of all chokes was Van De Velde in the British Open the year he tripled the last. His brain melted with that one.

[farangme]

Dont forget Phil Mickelson who has a great record at the Masters and the Aussie boy Adam Scott.

What a wonderful Sunday at Augusta it was! Classic back 9 & playoff, major championship duel...Especially with the rain coming down & darkness approaching as well...So lets salute Australia's first ever US Masters champion after 77 long years of trying - Adam Scott!

Hear hear.

He has been knocking on the door for some time and he can now shed the 'choker' cloak forever. Something , unfortunately, that the hugely likeable Greg Norman cannot.

Re: Tiger.

Although the ruling was wrong, in my view, there is an overall sense of justice. First - how unlucky was Woods with the shot that hit the flagstick. Second, I don't think he sought any 'advantage' from his drop error - he went further back (admittedly to suit himself) and he or his caddie should have been aware of the correct drop procedure.

The 8 for that hole effectively put him out of the competition and the 2 shot penalty just covered the officials' error in their initial judgement. They would arguably have been better to stand stubbornly by that decision that no offence had occurred.

Sorry, but have to rebutt regarding Woods drop. I watched his post round press conference in which he admitted dropping two yards back because it was a better distance for him, i.e. to gain an advantage. The fact he didn't know the rule, yeah right, makes no difference. He signed an incorrect score card. DQ. End of story.

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