Liverpool F.c.

[Mossfinn]

Has anybody ever seen anything in Lucas, a Brazilian International and Zico he aint

Fu_ck sake here we go, I knew as soon as he got the unlucky own goal the Lucas bashing would start.

I am not really a football fan and my comment was not based on last nights match alone, but based on several that I have seen him play, of which I have never seen him play, in my opinion, very well and to the high standards I would expect of Liverpool.

Now having said that I am not much of a football fan, I posted the question so as to get some insight in to the reasons and in particular Liverpool fans thoughts on him as a player, that I can't see.

I accept I picked the wrong night to say it, but I also expected a more thoughtful approach than your ill thought out response, I would have expected something like, 'he is industrious and can tackle back', 'he can read the game very well', 'he has two clever feet and is good in the air' 'he is a good foil for Gerard', but no, something altogether different.

But then I guess you are a footballer as well as a fan and I really shouldn't have expected anything better, should I.

[Devil]

Has anybody ever seen anything in Lucas, a Brazilian International and Zico he aint

Fu_ck sake here we go, I knew as soon as he got the unlucky own goal the Lucas bashing would start.

I am not really a football fan and my comment was not based on last nights match alone, but based on several that I have seen him play, of which I have never seen him play, in my opinion, very well and to the high standards I would expect of Liverpool.

Now having said that I am not much of a football fan, I posted the question so as to get some insight in to the reasons and in particular Liverpool fans thoughts on him as a player, that I can't see.

I accept I picked the wrong night to say it, but I also expected a more thoughtful approach than your ill thought out response, I would have expected something like, 'he is industrious and can tackle back', 'he can read the game very well', 'he has two clever feet and is good in the air' 'he is a good foil for Gerard', but no, something altogether different.

But then I guess you are a footballer as well as a fan and I really shouldn't have expected anything better, should I.

I am not really a football fan (I guessed as much)

But then I guess you are a footballer as well as a fan and I really shouldn't have expected anything better, should I (If that's your attitude, then I guess not)

[Mossfinn]

Carragher, Gerrard, Kuyt have all made a bad start to the season compared to their normal high standards, bad passes bad marking, and given fouls away so far this season (what was Stevie G thinking?) And yet nobody says a word.

The big difference, in my opinion, is that all of the above guys generally perform to a high standard and the occasional lapse is something to be understood, although not condoned.

I agree with,

what what was Gerard thinking,

considering rio coco's knock through was already covered and I did comment on this the next day, not on here mind, because I wanted a Fans point of view on Lucas.

I will just have to make it clearer next time, or maybe not.

[Jimjim]

Or get over yourself and fuc_k off, thanks.

You give a one liner which seems like a dig or attempt at a joke or just a bash on Lucas, and expect fans on here to give you a well thought out response? Get over yourself, man. Don't act so pompous and uppity, and get back to eating your caviar and drinking your champagne. Cheers.

Hmmm, a Brazilian international he is indeed.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Jimjim

[TheAceFace]

I think we will turn the corner soon........keep the faith. Lucas has done well and I think he will continue to do so.

Its not the end of the world to lose 2 games, not the best start I agree......Did Man UTD start off well last term.......NO.....and look what they ended up with.

[StevieH]

I think we will turn the corner soon........keep the faith. Lucas has done well and I think he will continue to do so.

Its not the end of the world to lose 2 games, not the best start I agree......Did Man UTD start off well last term.......NO.....and look what they ended up with.

it's not the end of the world but it is a bit of a morale-killer after the way we finished last season. and i'm really worried about our squad depth this year. couple of injuries and we're deep in the shit.

[Jimjim]

That's true they got 4 points from their first 3 games but one of those was against Liverpool. We need to step it up big time from here on out. I think Lucas is a good player but I do see us missing Alonso's long passing ability. Lucas can make intelligent short little passes and he likes to get forward but you saw when Gerrard dropped back in to midfield the type of passes he could make that the midfield lacks right now.

I think all the critics that were thinking we'll miss Alonso a lot are feeling quite content with their assessment right now. Frankly, they might be right, but it's too early to tell.

[Devil]

That's true they got 4 points from their first 3 games but one of those was against Liverpool. We need to step it up big time from here on out. I think Lucas is a good player but I do see us missing Alonso's long passing ability. Lucas can make intelligent short little passes and he likes to get forward but you saw when Gerrard dropped back in to midfield the type of passes he could make that the midfield lacks right now.

I think all the critics that were thinking we'll miss Alonso a lot are feeling quite content with their assessment right now. Frankly, they might be right, but it's too early to tell.

Yep cant afford any more set backs and its very possible we could put a good run together and take a few points of our rivals. Never thought I would be saying this but really need Stevie and Torres to really step it up a notch and inspire the team and get us back on track.

Looking forward to seeing Aquilani in action, think he will be ready mid October right? I know its a lot to ask for him to hit the ground running but I have high hopes of him more than any recent signing I can remember.

IF all goes to plan, he will bring that bit of drive and final ball to open defenses and not forgetting his long range efforts. Cant wait.

[StevieH]

i think we're just too light all over the park. we lost sami meaning that we had to sign the greek to cover at centreback. we've little or no real cover for johnson since degen is made of glass, aquilani's injury record is not great and that means just lucas and mascherano in centre mid backed up by unproved spearing and joke plessis while up top if torres gets injured it's a choice between raw ngog and arsehol_e voronin.

at a time when we needed to invest in the squad, spend some money to get more quality in depth and really kick on, the owners snatch the money away and the manager's left grasping again. it's <deleted>.

[Devil]

i think we're just too light all over the park. we lost sami meaning that we had to sign the greek to cover at centreback. we've little or no real cover for johnson since degen is made of glass, aquilani's injury record is not great and that means just lucas and mascherano in centre mid backed up by unproved spearing and joke plessis while up top if torres gets injured it's a choice between raw ngog and arsehol_e voronin.

at a time when we needed to invest in the squad, spend some money to get more quality in depth and really kick on, the owners snatch the money away and the manager's left grasping again. it's <deleted>.

I know mate, so disheartening hearing we cant buy anyone and go on from last season. I remember at the beginning of the transfer window names such as Silva, Villa, Aguero were being thrown around as if we would definitely get at least one of them.

[StevieH]

i think we're just too light all over the park. we lost sami meaning that we had to sign the greek to cover at centreback. we've little or no real cover for johnson since degen is made of glass, aquilani's injury record is not great and that means just lucas and mascherano in centre mid backed up by unproved spearing and joke plessis while up top if torres gets injured it's a choice between raw ngog and arsehol_e voronin.

at a time when we needed to invest in the squad, spend some money to get more quality in depth and really kick on, the owners snatch the money away and the manager's left grasping again. it's <deleted>.

I know mate, so disheartening hearing we cant buy anyone and go on from last season. I remember at the beginning of the transfer window names such as Silva, Villa, Aguero were being thrown around as if we would definitely get at least one of them.

the most scandalous thing this summer is not the sale of alonso, if a guy wants to go that much there's no point keeping him, but what the owners have done with the transfer funds. telling the manager back in may that he had 20m plus what he raised from sales to spend on new signings then deciding to take new contracts for several players from this budget was fuc_king disgraceful.

[nev]

so is it true you are paying johnson 135,000 quid a week if so that is rediculious if true.

[StevieH]

so is it true you are paying johnson 135,000 quid a week if so that is rediculious if true.

nah, not true. daily mail story.

[Jimjim]

Talking about our squad depth, it doesn't look good, no. Degen? He looked horrible in every game in preaseason for me. Just not good enough. Notice he hasn't been on the bench and Kelly has. When Kelly played in the right back spot he actually looked good. Besides Carra, he's the best sub we have there, in my opinion. But still unproven, of course. I think he could do it, though. I think we're covered at center back although don't know anything about the Greek. Plenty of cover at left back, considering Dossena was gone but then he decided he didn't want to take a pay cut and stayed. Odd deal, that one.

In the middle of the park once Aquilani's fit lets just wait and see how healthy he stays. I know someone said on this forum or another that his manager could have been to blame somewhat as his off the field practices and beliefs did not protect player's bodies. He still counts so we have him and Lucas and Mascherano, same as last season just replacing Alonso with Aqui, and with Spearing a year older he may get some chances. Problem is Alonso left a massive hole and we have to hope Aquilani can fill it and Lucas does fine for a backup, but judging the first 3 games he's not dominant enough to be first choice every game for me, if Masch and Aquilani are fit, and I'm saying this not having even seen Aquilani play for us. I don't think Lucas is crap, but he's not a dominant player at this point in time. Oh how I wish we still had Sissoko, though he was more of a defensive midfield player as well. On the wings we've got plenty, I feel, at least with Kuyt, Riera, El Zhar, Yossi and Babel. Babel though, just still doesn't look up to snuff. El Zhar's currently injured and also doesn't seem a threat to start regularly. I guess for quality depth another right winger would be lovely. I think the left's covered fine, though, and even Aurelio and Dossena can play left midfield, I would think.

Striker? Well, Gerrard's been playing there now, so I didn't even count him in midfield, though of course he's still an option there. But who to play up front if Gerrard played in midfield? Voronin? Hmmm, not every game. Ngog? Still not proven. So many more teams have better quality depth at this postion it just seems mind blowing that we don't have another proven striker for backup. I mean, Kuyt can do it, I feel, but he's actually a better player on the right than he is a striker. If we had the money I think we could have gotten someone like Huntelaar or Negredo. Don't see how it could hurt. First choice pairing is world class, of course, but beyond that it certainly looks weak.

I do feel we're probably two world class players to add more quality depth from a realistic title shot, as injuries will inevitably happen. As far as summer dealings though, we've got the owners to blame for that. If the reports that we have no more money for transfers are to be believed, that seems clear. Get them out!

[Devil]

Talking about our squad depth, it doesn't look good, no. Degen? He looked horrible in every game in preaseason for me. Just not good enough. Notice he hasn't been on the bench and Kelly has. When Kelly played in the right back spot he actually looked good. Besides Carra, he's the best sub we have there, in my opinion. But still unproven, of course. I think he could do it, though. I think we're covered at center back although don't know anything about the Greek. Plenty of cover at left back, considering Dossena was gone but then he decided he didn't want to take a pay cut and stayed. Odd deal, that one.

In the middle of the park once Aquilani's fit lets just wait and see how healthy he stays. I know someone said on this forum or another that his manager could have been to blame somewhat as his off the field practices and beliefs did not protect player's bodies. He still counts so we have him and Lucas and Mascherano, same as last season just replacing Alonso with Aqui, and with Spearing a year older he may get some chances. Problem is Alonso left a massive hole and we have to hope Aquilani can fill it and Lucas does fine for a backup, but judging the first 3 games he's not dominant enough to be first choice every game for me, if Masch and Aquilani are fit, and I'm saying this not having even seen Aquilani play for us. I don't think Lucas is crap, but he's not a dominant player at this point in time. Oh how I wish we still had Sissoko, though he was more of a defensive midfield player as well. On the wings we've got plenty, I feel, at least with Kuyt, Riera, El Zhar, Yossi and Babel. Babel though, just still doesn't look up to snuff. El Zhar's currently injured and also doesn't seem a threat to start regularly. I guess for quality depth another right winger would be lovely. I think the left's covered fine, though, and even Aurelio and Dossena can play left midfield, I would think.

Striker? Well, Gerrard's been playing there now, so I didn't even count him in midfield, though of course he's still an option there. But who to play up front if Gerrard played in midfield? Voronin? Hmmm, not every game. Ngog? Still not proven. So many more teams have better quality depth at this postion it just seems mind blowing that we don't have another proven striker for backup. I mean, Kuyt can do it, I feel, but he's actually a better player on the right than he is a striker. If we had the money I think we could have gotten someone like Huntelaar or Negredo. Don't see how it could hurt. First choice pairing is world class, of course, but beyond that it certainly looks weak.

I do feel we're probably two world class players to add more quality depth from a realistic title shot, as injuries will inevitably happen. As far as summer dealings though, we've got the owners to blame for that. If the reports that we have no more money for transfers are to be believed, that seems clear. Get them out!

Fair assessment that Jimjim, certainly going to be tough season once the inevitable injuries pop up with not much quality on the bench.

So what do you all think to the Champions League draws? ours looks a little tricky but could of been worse.

Group E

Liverpool

Lyon

Fiorentina

Debrecen

[Jimjim]

Any Champions League draw is "tricky," but it was good to avoid some of the more dangerous teams. But in the Champions League you just never know. I always like to see who we're playing but don't worry too much about who the other teams are, as whoever they are it's never easy but have confidence we should advance.

[Devil]

Stevie G woooo

[TheAceFace]

Happy with that result, came from behind twice....shows desire. Thought the lads did well overall. Still not a fan of zonal (anal) marking...sort it out Rafa.

[skydiver77]

No true LFC supporter should be overjoyed at that result.

With a bloke down, the score should have been at least 5-2.

With the overall performance so far, Paisley and Shanks must be doing high speed horizontal rotations.

Rafa needs to undo his top button. BP must be sky high.

Get your bloody fingers out lads....except Kuyt.

[TheAceFace]

No true LFC supporter should be overjoyed at that result.

With a bloke down, the score should have been at least 5-2.

With the overall performance so far, Paisley and Shanks must be doing high speed horizontal rotations.

Rafa needs to undo his top button. BP must be sky high.

Get your bloody fingers out lads....except Kuyt.

Sorry Im only a part timer Different ball game now from the Paisley, Shanks era. Would you have been more happy if we had lost.

Agree we had enough chances, yep maybe 2-5 would have been alright, they tried to pass it into the net on a couple of occasion (Torres / Benayoun) in particular. Defending definatley needs sortin.

Note: sometimes its harder playing against 10 men as they tend to want to settle for the draw and defend in the masses, still of the opinion the result was good.

[Jockstar]

How many players just ball watching? 2 silly goals to lose.

[MSingh]

No true LFC supporter should be overjoyed at that result.

With a bloke down, the score should have been at least 5-2.

With the overall performance so far, Paisley and Shanks must be doing high speed horizontal rotations.

Rafa needs to undo his top button. BP must be sky high.

Get your bloody fingers out lads....except Kuyt.

Why should it, you're not that great ??

[nev]

Anddont forget when liverpool start to loose the other team gets a player sent off,now how many timesdid that happen last season and it has started again hmmmm,and what a soft sending off and lucas helping to get the player sent off.

[Jimjim]

Yes, it's a big conspiracy. Along the lines of the Man Utd -- Arsenal game and all the favortism shown to Man U. Get real.

Anyway, Liverpool fans, aren't you happy with a win? I am, who the fuc_k cares what others think. Took Gerrard 4 tries but he finally found the winner, and I'm not entirely convinced that Torres didn't score a 4th, if it wasn't across the line then about 9/10 of the ball was across. Now to the frustrating international break while we sweat over players' fitness and can't watch our team for another 2 weeks.

[Devil]

Yes, it's a big conspiracy. Along the lines of the Man Utd -- Arsenal game and all the favortism shown to Man U. Get real.

Anyway, Liverpool fans, aren't you happy with a win? I am, who the fuc_k cares what others think. Took Gerrard 4 tries but he finally found the winner, and I'm not entirely convinced that Torres didn't score a 4th, if it wasn't across the line then about 9/10 of the ball was across. Now to the frustrating international break while we sweat over players' fitness and can't watch our team for another 2 weeks.

Of the first 6 fixtures I was not looking forward to the Bolton away game, I was expecting problems. I am more than happy to see that winning mentality return and that's not an easy ground to come back from like we did, we showed quality (at times) and great attitude. Some of the new boys are doing us proud.

I think in glimpses we are playing some decent football and just need a bit of consistency at set pieces and defending. I am so impressed with Johnson every game.

Lets hope this will spur us on to a good winning streak. Wont be long before a few needed players will be back from injury to add options - Agger, Aurelio, ElZhar and Aquilani all recovering faster than expected.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Devil

[TheAceFace]

Yes, it's a big conspiracy. Along the lines of the Man Utd -- Arsenal game and all the favortism shown to Man U. Get real.

Anyway, Liverpool fans, aren't you happy with a win? I am, who the fuc_k cares what others think. Took Gerrard 4 tries but he finally found the winner, and I'm not entirely convinced that Torres didn't score a 4th, if it wasn't across the line then about 9/10 of the ball was across. Now to the frustrating international break while we sweat over players' fitness and can't watch our team for another 2 weeks.

Of the first 6 fixtures I was not looking forward to the Bolton away game, I was expecting problems. I am more than happy to see that winning mentality return and that's not an easy ground to come back from like we did, we showed quality (at times) and great attitude. Some of the new boys are doing us proud.

I think in glimpses we are playing some decent football and just need a bit of consistency at set pieces and defending. I am so impressed with Johnson every game.

Lets hope this will spur us on to a good winning streak. Wont be long before a few needed players will be back from injury to add options - Agger, Aurelio, ElZhar and Aquilani all recovering faster than expected.

Spot on Guy's, really looking forward to seeing what Aquilani is all about....ahead of schedule too by all accounts. This 2 week break I think will benefit us more, give the injured lads time to get upto speed.

[Jimjim]

We've really missed Agger the last 2 years for goodness sakes. If he was fit he'd be first choice in my opinion, and adds so much to the attack from a centre back role for goodness' sake, I wish that lad didn't always have foot or back problems every other week.

[MSingh]

Michael Shields walks free !!!!!

Bet that's well received on Merseyside Stevie aye ??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...ide/8245760.stm

[StevieH]

massive news m, delighted for the lad and his family. four fuc_king years inside for something he didn't do. and it took releasing a libyan to get that arsehol_e jack straw to finally do anything about it.

[Devil]

Another high scoring win and managed to keep a clean sheet this time. Its not looking to bad is it? ok it was only Burnley but you might of expected this type of game at home to be draw last season.

Yossi was fantastic... with Masch not being available for selection, Rafa got it spot on by switching Gerrard in to midfield and it appeared that Yossi enjoyed the role he was given playing just behind Torres at times, after starting out wide then drifting in and around the final third.

Kuyt and Lucas both had excellent games - Lucas looked to benefit playing alongside Gerrard and in a more deep holding role.

Thought Torres had a bit of a frustrating game and looked a bit weary at times, also not surprised Johnson looked a bit leggy, as long as were getting goals from all areas that's what counts.

- Other good news, Standard Charter will be out new shirt sponsors in a massive 80 Million Pounds deal over 4 years. (finally some positive financial news for now)