Liverpool F.c.

[bkkjames]

at the end of the day, the world at large, the media, fans of other clubs and many liverpool fans are 'expecting' liverpool to compete for the title every season on a budget less than that of say tottenham. why is this? because of history? nobody 'expects' villa to challenge for the title yet they've outspent liverpool over the past few seasons. again, why is this?

Because you have 3 of the best Players in the World in their positions, in Torres, Gerrard & Reina maybe & they haven't ??

No one in their right mind should " expect " Liverpool to win anything & i certainly don't/didn't because, those 3 aside, you're average at best, at best, whether you want/do believe it or not & the reason why your average at best is because of the Signings your Manager has made.

When did Reina become one of the best players in the world? I do know he's second choice for his country.

Can't really see the game being on this weekend, i know there's a lot of hot air that come's out of liverpool but not enough to clear that amount of snow and ice

true, can't have all the spurs supporters travelling up breaking a hip now can we.

[StevieH]

at the end of the day, the world at large, the media, fans of other clubs and many liverpool fans are 'expecting' liverpool to compete for the title every season on a budget less than that of say tottenham. why is this? because of history? nobody 'expects' villa to challenge for the title yet they've outspent liverpool over the past few seasons. again, why is this?

Because you have 3 of the best Players in the World in their positions, in Torres, Gerrard & Reina maybe & they haven't ??

No one in their right mind should " expect " Liverpool to win anything & i certainly don't/didn't because, those 3 aside, you're average at best, at best, whether you want/do believe it or not & the reason why your average at best is because of the Signings your Manager has made.

and who made them 3 of the best players in the world in their positions? rafa benitez did. gerrard was an talented but underperforming centre mid before benitez made him into the best attacking midfielder in the world. torres was potential with an average goalscoring record at atleti. reina was discarded by barcelona and a relative unknown at villareal.

the reason that those 3 aside (i'd include mascherano in the top class players too by the way) we're 'average at best' is because of the signings the manager has made? and, once again, for the slow kids at the back, he has not been able to sign the players he wanted to sign to kick us on to the next level. he simply hasn't wasted that much money, whatever you choose to believe. 16m net a season is simply not enough investment to catch up with lottery winners chelsea and hugely-established united.

[StevieH]

at the end of the day, the world at large, the media, fans of other clubs and many liverpool fans are 'expecting' liverpool to compete for the title every season on a budget less than that of say tottenham. why is this? because of history? nobody 'expects' villa to challenge for the title yet they've outspent liverpool over the past few seasons. again, why is this?

Because you have 3 of the best Players in the World in their positions, in Torres, Gerrard & Reina maybe & they haven't ??

No one in their right mind should " expect " Liverpool to win anything & i certainly don't/didn't because, those 3 aside, you're average at best, at best, whether you want/do believe it or not & the reason why your average at best is because of the Signings your Manager has made.

When did Reina become one of the best players in the world? I do know he's second choice for his country.

casillas, buffon, reina. top 3 keepers in the world right now.

[bkkjames]

at the end of the day, the world at large, the media, fans of other clubs and many liverpool fans are 'expecting' liverpool to compete for the title every season on a budget less than that of say tottenham. why is this? because of history? nobody 'expects' villa to challenge for the title yet they've outspent liverpool over the past few seasons. again, why is this?

Because you have 3 of the best Players in the World in their positions, in Torres, Gerrard & Reina maybe & they haven't ??

No one in their right mind should " expect " Liverpool to win anything & i certainly don't/didn't because, those 3 aside, you're average at best, at best, whether you want/do believe it or not & the reason why your average at best is because of the Signings your Manager has made.

When did Reina become one of the best players in the world? I do know he's second choice for his country.

casillas, buffon, reina. top 3 keepers in the world right now.

casillas, buffon, given.

[StevieH]

casillas, buffon, given.

hahaha! yeah. given's an alright shotstopper but in terms of dealing with crosses and balls into the box, and indeed commanding his penalty area, he's average at best. he's a highlights 'keeper. flashy when stopping shots but not in the least bit dominant.

[Devil]

at the end of the day, the world at large, the media, fans of other clubs and many liverpool fans are 'expecting' liverpool to compete for the title every season on a budget less than that of say tottenham. why is this? because of history? nobody 'expects' villa to challenge for the title yet they've outspent liverpool over the past few seasons. again, why is this?

Because you have 3 of the best Players in the World in their positions, in Torres, Gerrard & Reina maybe & they haven't ??

No one in their right mind should " expect " Liverpool to win anything & i certainly don't/didn't because, those 3 aside, you're average at best, at best, whether you want/do believe it or not & the reason why your average at best is because of the Signings your Manager has made.

and who made them 3 of the best players in the world in their positions? rafa benitez did. gerrard was an talented but underperforming centre mid before benitez made him into the best attacking midfielder in the world. torres was potential with an average goalscoring record at atleti. reina was discarded by barcelona and a relative unknown at villareal.

the reason that those 3 aside (i'd include mascherano in the top class players too by the way) we're 'average at best' is because of the signings the manager has made? and, once again, for the slow kids at the back, he has not been able to sign the players he wanted to sign to kick us on to the next level. he simply hasn't wasted that much money, whatever you choose to believe. 16m net a season is simply not enough investment to catch up with lottery winners chelsea and hugely-established united.

Spot on that Stevie.

[bkkjames]

casillas, buffon, given.

hahaha! yeah. given's an alright shotstopper but in terms of dealing with crosses and balls into the box, and indeed commanding his penalty area, he's average at best. he's a highlights 'keeper. flashy when stopping shots but not in the least bit dominant.

yes all good stevie but at least given knows the difference between a beach ball and match ball.

[sharecropper]

and who made them 3 of the best players in the world in their positions? rafa benitez did

Shame he couldn't work his magic on the rest of his many and expensive signings though.

[bkkjames]

and who made them 3 of the best players in the world in their positions? rafa benitez did

Shame he couldn't work his magic on the rest of his many and expensive signings though.

Hey, keep the LP banter to their thread please, here we have some standards to maintain.

[sharecropper]

and who made them 3 of the best players in the world in their positions? rafa benitez did

Shame he couldn't work his magic on the rest of his many and expensive signings though.

Hey, keep the LP banter to their thread please, here we have some standards to maintain.

Sorry. I didn't think you and they were in the same league any more.

[RockyBalb0a]

Benitez's record in the transfer market is actually quite good, and all the informed fans who follow the club recognise this.

The people who believe he has this terrible record are generally unaware of what he is actually done, and the constraints he's worked under, because they listen to the media too much for their opinions, or they have unrealistic expectations of what he should be able to achieve -

e.g. Benitez could only afford to spend £9 million when he bought Kuyt to play up front for Liverpool. Kuyt isn't as good as Rooney or Drogba, therefore Benitez is poor in the transfer market and doesn't know a good player when he sees one.

An extreme example, maybe, but this sort of (non) thinking is typical when assessing the strength of Liverpool's squad.

When his signings, made relatively cheaply, are constantly compared to, and expected to be able to perform as well as, more expensive signings that the teams they are meant to be competing for the title with have made, it's inevitable that taken as a whole they are not going to look as good. Then people start accusing Liverpools squad of being weak. It's not, it's just not quite as strong as the teams above Liverpool in the pecking order of English foootball.

People bringing up the likes of Voronin (free), Degen (free), Josemi (2 million which has since been recouped), as an example of Benitez's lack of nous in the transfer market, clearly don't realise how laughable their viewpoint is. It seems that Benitez is the only manager in the world who is expected to bring in squad players in that price range (and on low wages) and consistently turn them into world class players.

The signings of Reina, Crouch, Garcia, Alonso, Agger, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Benayoun, Aurelio, Skrtel, Insua, Ngog, Riera, Kuyt, Johnson, Torres etc, all of who have been a success for the price that was paid for them, some of them spectacularly, far outweigh the small number of players who have not stayed long term and been shipped on at a loss, and could therefore be considered an example of bad transfer dealings. Let's see what we have -

Morientes (Good player but didn't adapt, £3 million loss),

Pennant (Rafa's 4th choice signing after moves for other targets fell through due to lack of funds, £6.7 million loss after

running down his contract and refusing to leave for a fee)

Dossena (No longer required after the emergence of Insua, £2.75 million loss)

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

Palleta (£0.8 million loss)

Garcia was eventually sold for a £2 million loss due to age and injury, but i'm not including him in this list as he was an undeniable success.

That's it so far, from his entire transfer record at Liverpool, all of the players he has made a loss on. The jury is obviously still out on Babel and Aquilani (although i expect he will prove his class).

So where is all this money that has apparently been squandered? Well, it's contained within a squad that is now worth far, far more than the one he inherited. Just selling Torres on his own would be sufficient to reduce Benitez's net spend in his time at Liverpool to £0. Due to the increased standard of Liverpool's team during his time in charge, and his own tactical acumen, Liverpool have recouped more money from their lengthy ventures in the champions league, than the manager has spent on players. Looks like it has been money well spent to me.

However, i'm sure none of this perspective will change the minds of people who really want to believe that Benitez is in fact the clueless manager that the media often portray him to be.

Edited January 8, 2010 by RockyBalb0a

[Supernova]

Liverpool vs. Spurs (Jan 10, 2010) postponed for safety reasons.

[sharecropper]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

What happens if they sell him (as seems likely). Do Liveprool lose that 3m?

[carmine]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

What happens if they sell him (as seems likely). Do Liveprool lose that 3m?

Don't know the answer to that, but in fairness to Rafa, Keane has'nt been much better for us since his return than he was when he was with you lot. Is it also true that he did'nt want to sign him in the first place?

[sharecropper]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

What happens if they sell him (as seems likely). Do Liveprool lose that 3m?

Don't know the answer to that, but in fairness to Rafa, Keane has'nt been much better for us since his return than he was when he was with you lot. Is it also true that he did'nt want to sign him in the first place?

I hadn't heard that, but Keane has certainly been rubbish on and off the field since he went back, so maybe Rafa was right to lose the 3m. What would Spurs get for him now do you think?

[carmine]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

What happens if they sell him (as seems likely). Do Liveprool lose that 3m?

Don't know the answer to that, but in fairness to Rafa, Keane has'nt been much better for us since his return than he was when he was with you lot. Is it also true that he did'nt want to sign him in the first place?

I hadn't heard that, but Keane has certainly been rubbish on and off the field since he went back, so maybe Rafa was right to lose the 3m. What would Spurs get for him now do you think?

On the basis of how he's currently playing not 16m!

[RockyBalb0a]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

What happens if they sell him (as seems likely). Do Liveprool lose that 3m?

I would think that they lose the potential to recoup the £3 million if Tottenham sell him on before achieving anything, as it's a performance related installment and he would no longer be at the club to contribute. Even if Tottenham keep him, there would still have to be some doubt about Liverpool's chances of receiving that money as it is probably reliant on Tottenham collecting some silverware. I'm not sure if Champions League qualification would trigger it, it might do.

[StevieH]

keane wasn't able to get his head around playing in a system which didn't have him as the main man and as such rafa cut his losses and shipped him. he's not a particularly intelligent footballer and had trouble adapting his game.

[alfieconn]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

I'm reading it was more like 12m plus add ons but whats 4m between friends

[alfieconn]

keane wasn't able to get his head around playing in a system which didn't have him as the main man and as such rafa cut his losses and shipped him. he's not a particularly intelligent footballer and had trouble adapting his game.

Where do you conjure up these theories you come out with stevie ? it seems you a psychiatrist now as well as an football expert

[alfieconn]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

What happens if they sell him (as seems likely). Do Liveprool lose that 3m?

Don't know the answer to that, but in fairness to Rafa, Keane has'nt been much better for us since his return than he was when he was with you lot. Is it also true that he did'nt want to sign him in the first place?

I hadn't heard that, but Keane has certainly been rubbish on and off the field since he went back, so maybe Rafa was right to lose the 3m. What would Spurs get for him now do you think?

Rubbish off the field perhaps you could expand on this one a bit more as you obviously have inside info.

Edited January 10, 2010 by alfieconn

[sharecropper]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

What happens if they sell him (as seems likely). Do Liveprool lose that 3m?

Don't know the answer to that, but in fairness to Rafa, Keane has'nt been much better for us since his return than he was when he was with you lot. Is it also true that he did'nt want to sign him in the first place?

I hadn't heard that, but Keane has certainly been rubbish on and off the field since he went back, so maybe Rafa was right to lose the 3m. What would Spurs get for him now do you think?

Rubbish off the field perhaps you could expand on this one a bit more as you obviously have inside info.

Well, try this, from today's Times:

Keane is undoubtedly unhappy about having shipped much of the blame for the infamous Christmas party held in Dublin four days before they lost to Wolves at White Hart Lane — a defeat that kept them away from the holy grail of the top four. Redknapp had promised that the indiscretion would be “dealt with severely” but he found Keane and the rest of the players in a defiant mood when a team meeting was held and in the end the players involved only had to make a relatively modest donation to charity.

Despite his role as captain and a key role of the itinerary, which wound from Gibney’s pub in Malahide to Copper Face Jacks in Leeson Street, Keane himself has expressed no contrition publicly over the affair and we are left with the overwhelming sense that his defiance of the manager is borne out of unhappiness about his increasingly peripheral role at the club.

[alfieconn]

I hadn't heard that, but Keane has certainly been rubbish on and off the field since he went back, so maybe Rafa was right to lose the 3m. What would Spurs get for him now do you think?

rubbish off the field perhaps you could expand on this one a bit more as you obviously have inside info.

Well, try this, from today's Times:

Keane is undoubtedly unhappy about having shipped much of the blame for the infamous Christmas party held in Dublin four days before they lost to Wolves at White Hart Lane — a defeat that kept them away from the holy grail of the top four. Redknapp had promised that the indiscretion would be "dealt with severely" but he found Keane and the rest of the players in a defiant mood when a team meeting was held and in the end the players involved only had to make a relatively modest donation to charity.

Despite his role as captain and a key role of the itinerary, which wound from Gibney's pub in Malahide to Copper Face Jacks in Leeson Street, Keane himself has expressed no contrition publicly over the affair and we are left with the overwhelming sense that his defiance of the manager is borne out of unhappiness about his increasingly peripheral role at the club.

So that makes him rubbish off the field ?

Harry obviously agress that he is rubbish off the field

"Robbie's here, Robbie's the captain, he has done a great job for us, there is real competition between himself and [Peter] Crouch and Jermain and Roman [Pavlyuchenko], I've got four strikers and Robbie's very, very important to us, I don't see any way he is not going to be here, unless somebody comes and offers £50m for him."

Edited January 10, 2010 by alfieconn

[StevieH]

keane wasn't able to get his head around playing in a system which didn't have him as the main man and as such rafa cut his losses and shipped him. he's not a particularly intelligent footballer and had trouble adapting his game.

Where do you conjure up these theories you come out with stevie ? it seems you a psychiatrist now as well as an football expert

two places in this case alfie. a close mate of mine back home is mates with a couple of the senior liverpool players and i also used to play in the same football team as robbie keane's cousin who i'm still in touch with. he said that robbie is a simple footballer, he just wants to play, a lot like a kid in a schoolyard.

[alfieconn]

keane wasn't able to get his head around playing in a system which didn't have him as the main man and as such rafa cut his losses and shipped him. he's not a particularly intelligent footballer and had trouble adapting his game.

Where do you conjure up these theories you come out with stevie ? it seems you a psychiatrist now as well as an football expert

two places in this case alfie. a close mate of mine back home is mates with a couple of the senior liverpool players and i also used to play in the same football team as robbie keane's cousin who i'm still in touch with. he said that robbie is a simple footballer, he just wants to play, a lot like a kid in a schoolyard.

Simple footballer

Appearances for club sides 517 goals 194

Appearences for ireland 95 goals 43

Net total transfers £75M

I certainly understand what you mean by "a kid in a schoolyard"

To be fair he has never been one of my favourite players but i think his record speaks for itself.

Edited January 10, 2010 by alfieconn

[sharecropper]

To be fair he has never been one of my favourite players but i think his record speaks for itself.

I am more impressed by the amount of money he must have amassed in transfer fees, with no doubt a lot more yet to come.

[RockyBalb0a]

Keane (Bought for £19m sold for £16m, £3 million loss all of which could potentialy be recouped depending on Spurs'

future success)

I'm reading it was more like 12m plus add ons but whats 4m between friends

A £4 million istallment of the add ons was triggered after Tottenham avoided relegation last season.

[Penkoprod]

Theres a chill wind blowing through all levels of the Premiership at the moment. Its called "reality"

All those people saying "Rafa was promised......... blah blah blah" had better get a grip on said reality, or else they are going to be sadly disillusioned.

These Americans backed Rafa as much as possible, but it was never going to be enough to satisfy him. And now the time has come to say "no more"

Even the likes of Man United have turned into a selling club, to satisfy/pacify the banks, so what chance has Rafa of squeezing any more cash out of Gillett/Hicks, huh?? What he has done with what he has been given is immaterial. How/if he wasted it is by the by. Its gone and there will be little in the way of hard cash for a while. Even Arsenal haven't/couldn't spend when they needed to. ANOTHER selling club. Chelsea took a year or two off from spending crazy money.

Only the likes of Man City can afford to buy with abandon. What do people want? A club that "bought success" without earning it??? A sugar daddy as chairman???

With Porstmouth teetering on the brink of bankrupcy, the writing is very much on the wall. There could be a domino effect, or at least measures put in place to curb the crazy transfer fees, ridiculous wage demands, etc.

Moan all you like about percieved broken promises, but there's no rainbow with a crock of foriegn gold attached to the end of it.

THAT'S the reality.....right?

Penkoprod

[StevieH]

the americans haven't put any of their own money into liverpool fc. so your statement 'These Americans backed Rafa as much as possible, but it was never going to be enough to satisfy him. And now the time has come to say "no more"' is a nonsense.

[bkkjames]

On the topic of transfer fees wouldn't it be nice if a team was given a yearly limit (whatever that =) and that's it.

At the current rate it's becoming unsustainable. While some clubs including MU (certainly City and Bank of Spain, I mean Madrid) might not like such an idea, hopefully we could avoid the current difficulties facing many teams.

Sorry not really a LP topic alone I know.