Liverpool F.c.

[mrbojangles]

As long as you stay in the Crown it'll be a good night ( Lime street is NOT soi 4 ).

[mrtoad]

Good look digger :

BARNES ACCEPTS SUNDERLAND JOB

Anfield legend and LFC TV presenter John Barnes has agreed to become a Caribbean scout for Sunderland. Barnes, who was born in Jamaica, will hold coaching clinics and offer trials at the Stadium of Light to young players who will then have to impress Black Cats boss Roy Keane.

He said: "I will be choosing the best players to go to Sunderland.

"They recognise that, although Africa is saturated with scouts the Caribbean is the next place they are going to get the talent to hopefully grace the Premier League."

Sunderland already have Trinidad and Tobago internationals Dwight Yorke, Kenwyne Jones and Carlos Edwards in their squad.

He might even get a few games before the end of the season.

[scousemouse]

Good look digger :

BARNES ACCEPTS SUNDERLAND JOB

Anfield legend and LFC TV presenter John Barnes has agreed to become a Caribbean scout for Sunderland. Barnes, who was born in Jamaica, will hold coaching clinics and offer trials at the Stadium of Light to young players who will then have to impress Black Cats boss Roy Keane.

He said: "I will be choosing the best players to go to Sunderland.

"They recognise that, although Africa is saturated with scouts the Caribbean is the next place they are going to get the talent to hopefully grace the Premier League."

Sunderland already have Trinidad and Tobago internationals Dwight Yorke, Kenwyne Jones and Carlos Edwards in their squad.

He might even get a few games before the end of the season.

So suderland have got a chance then

[mrtoad]

Good look digger :

BARNES ACCEPTS SUNDERLAND JOB

Anfield legend and LFC TV presenter John Barnes has agreed to become a Caribbean scout for Sunderland. Barnes, who was born in Jamaica, will hold coaching clinics and offer trials at the Stadium of Light to young players who will then have to impress Black Cats boss Roy Keane.

He said: "I will be choosing the best players to go to Sunderland.

"They recognise that, although Africa is saturated with scouts the Caribbean is the next place they are going to get the talent to hopefully grace the Premier League."

Sunderland already have Trinidad and Tobago internationals Dwight Yorke, Kenwyne Jones and Carlos Edwards in their squad.

He might even get a few games before the end of the season.

So suderland have got a chance then

Well, if he's got the balls to be out on Sunday night then you can ask him?

[the scouser]

Rafa is God, after all:-

[scousemouse]

Rafa is God, after all:-

You had doubts scouser ?? .

[scousemouse]

BOSS: I WANT GRAND SLAM CONFIDENCE

Rafa Benitez believes the confidence Liverpool could gain from the so-called 'grand slam weekend' could be more important than the three points up for grabs. This weekend sees the big four go head-to-head, with Arsenal entertaining Chelsea while Man Utd travel to Anfield.

Victory for the Reds would put them just three points behind United with a game in hand – but Benitez believes the implications could spread far wider than that.

He claims a win over the club's arch-rivals could provide the momentum for a title surge over Christmas and into the New Year.

The boss told Liverpoolfc.tv: "More important than the points is the confidence you could get from winning. If you can beat United or Arsenal, the confidence the team gets can be really important."

The next three days sees a feast of football for fans of all persuasions across the country, not that Benitez is concerning himself with goings on at the Emirates.

"I am thinking about our game," he claims. "To beat United for me will be enough."

The corresponding fixture last season saw United escape with an unlikely win from a game the Reds dominated thanks to a last-minute goal from John O'Shea.

Benitez admits the manner of the defeat, which prompted scenes of celebration from the United players at the Anfield Road end, was hard to take.

He explained: "We were much better than them during the game. If it was a draw you could say, 'Okay, we were better but we couldn't score.'

"To concede in the last minute was the worst thing. It was a very bad moment for us.

"To lose any game is something which is disappointing for you and your players. But against a top side, especially United, and considering how everything was, it was really disappointing.

"Now we have more confidence that we can beat them, and playing at Anfield will also be important. We have respect for them because they are a team with experience but we have confidence in ourselves."

While Liverpool's mission to set the record straight will be made easier by summer additions such as Fernando Torres and Ryan Babel, the visitors also have a few new faces of their own for Benitez and his side to contend with.

The most notable addition is Carlos Tevez, whose partnership with Wayne Rooney has, to some people's surprise, blossomed in recent weeks.

So, how does Benitez go about stopping one of the Premier League's most feared strike-forces, not to mention Cristiano Ronaldo.

He said: "Always it is difficult to control players with quality and big names. You must give credit to Alex Ferguson because he has managed these top class players for a long time. These players are really good. It's not easy to stop them but when you put your players on the pitch, they know what to do."

Sunday will provide Torres with his first taste of a big English derby, not that his boss has any concerns about how he will respond.

"I think in Spain he has experience playing with Atletico against Real Madrid. This is really difficult and the supporters are really good for both teams. It is more or less similar to this game.

"He can expect it to be difficult, physical and tough because they have experienced players. It will be similar to the Chelsea game but with even more rivalry between the two teams."

[scousemouse]

Team news ahead of the big one ! @ Anfield :

Liverpool v Man Utd

Anfield

Sunday, 16 December

Kick-off: 1330 GMT

BBC coverage: BBC Sport website, BBC Radio Five Live & highlights on Match of the Day. Featured game on Score and Final Score.

Liverpool midfielder Xabi Alonso is set to return to the squad after a two month absence with a metatarsal injury.

Defender Steve Finnan is doubtful because of a calf problem while centre-back Daniel Agger remains sidelined with a foot injury.

Sir Alex Ferguson is reporting a clean bill of health, with John O'Shea (abductor strain) the only minor doubt.

Owen Hargreaves has recovered from the calf injury he sustained in the warm-up prior to Saturday's win over Derby.

Liverpool from: Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise, Kewell, Gerrard, Mascherano, Benayoun, Alonso, Kuyt, Torres, Aurelio, Babel, Crouch, Finnan, Hobbs, Itandje, Leiva, Voronin, Sissoko.

Manchester United (from): Van der Sar, Kuszczak, Brown, Simpson, Ferdinand, Vidic, Pique, O'Shea, Evra, Ronaldo, Nani, Fletcher, Anderson, Hargreaves, Carrick, Giggs, Rooney, Saha, Tevez.

BIG-MATCH FACTS

Liverpool make their seventh attempt to notch a 50th league victory over Manchester United.

A draw would be enough to see Manchester United climb above Arsenal to the top of the table, ahead of the Gunners' home game with Chelsea which kicks off less than 45 minutes after the final whistle of this game is blown; victory for Liverpool will half their six-point deficit on the Red Devils.

This is the second of three massive fixtures in eight days for the Merseysiders, following Tuesday's decisive 0-4 Champions League win over Marseilles in France, and ahead of Wednesday's Carling Cup quarter-final at Chelsea.

Liverpool suffered a shock loss, away to Reading last Saturday, and are in danger of their first back-to-back defeats in 17 Premier League matches.

Both these clubs are meeting a fellow member of the "big four" for the third time this season, and both are unbeaten: United beat Chelsea 2-0 at home on 23 September and drew 2-2 at Arsenal on 3 November, while Liverpool have drawn both theirs 1-1 at home, to Chelsea on 19 August and to Arsenal on 28 October.

Sir Alex Ferguson has had the better of the exchanges with Rafael Benitez. United have won five and drawn one of the six Premier League matches against Rafa's Reds, although the Merseysiders did knock out United from the FA Cup in February 2006.

Manchester United ended Liverpool's 30-match unbeaten Premier League record at Anfield with a 0-1 victory in this corresponding fixture last March. John O'Shea came off the bench to win a dramatic stoppage time winner, after Paul Scholes was sent off for swinging a punch at Liverpool's Xabi Alonso.

Liverpool have suffered more Premier League defeats to Manchester United than any other club (16), and conceded more Premier League goals against them than to any other side (44).

CLUB FORM

LIVERPOOL

Club statsFixtures (all statistics are ahead of this weekend's round of Premier League fixtures)

1. Defeat to Reading ended a 15-match unbeaten Premier League sequence of eight wins and seven draws.

2. The three goals from the Royals were the first conceded in five Premier League outings, and increased the total of those shipped in this league campaign by half as much again (from six to nine).

3. Last lost successive league games away to Portsmouth and Fulham on 28 April and 5 May respectively.

4. Averaging two points per match; 30 in 15. They are eight points better off than at this same stage last season.

5. Conceded the opening goal only twice in Premier League matches this season - fewer than any other club, and one of two clubs not to have let in a goal in the first 15 minutes; the other is Blackburn.

6. Trailed at half-time only once in this Premier League season (away to Everton).

7. Won the last five league and cup games at Anfield, with an aggregate score of 20-2.

8. Undefeated in 11 home league games; won six and drawn five since the 0-1 loss to Manchester United on 3 March.

9. The only club to have scored as many as four penalties in Premiership competition this season, and one of two clubs to have conceded four; the other is Birmingham.

10. The remaining Premier League fixtures this year involve a home game with Portsmouth, a Boxing Day visit to Derby and another away trip to Manchester City, before entering 2008 with a home fixture against Wigan on 2 January.

MANCHESTER UNITED

Club statsFixtures (all statistics are ahead of this weekend's round of Premier League fixtures)

1. Won 16 of 20 in all competitions, and lost one of 14.

2. One of two clubs with as many as 11 Premier League wins; the other is Arsenal.

3. Boasting the tightest defence in the highest league; just eight goals shipped in 16 outings, at one very two games, or three hours, on average.

4. Won three more Premier League matches than Liverpool (11 to eight), but lost one more (two to one).

5. Won 11 of the last 13 Premier League matches, losing just one of the 13.

6. Kept clean sheets in eight of the last 13 league outings, and failed to score in one of their last 13 league games; the 1-0 loss, away to Bolton on 24 November.

7. Not lost in any league game this term in which they have scored; won 11 and drawn two of 13.

8. Scored first in an unequalled 12 Premier League matches; won 10 and drawn two.

9. Conceded only two goals in the last 15 minutes of Premier League matches this term; only Arsenal and Liverpool can match that.

10. The remaining matches this year include a home game with Everton, a Boxing Day visit to Sunderland, and another away trip to West Ham, before the New Year's Day fixture home to Birmingham.

KEY PLAYER NOTES

LIVERPOOL

Fernando TORRES is Liverpool's top scorer with 12 goals.

TORRES and Steven GERRARD are the clubs' joint top Premier League marksmen with six goals each.

Goalkeeper Jose REINA is the only remaining player to have been on the field for every minute of every one of Liverpool's Premier League matches this season.

REINA leads the race for the Barclays Golden Glove, keeping nine clean sheets.

MANCHESTER UNITED

Cristiano RONALDO is Manchester United's top scorer with 14 goals.

RONALDO is also their leading Premier League marksman with nine. He jointly leads the race for the Barclays Golden Boot, alongside Arsenal's Emmanuel ADEBAYOR.

Rio FERDINAND is the only remaining player to have started all of Manchester United's Premier League matches this season.

If on the field from the outset:-

Chris EAGLES will be making his 50th club league start (Manchester United, Watford and Sheffield Wednesday).

Long term injury, Gary NEVILLE will be making his 350th Premier League start for Manchester United.

HEAD TO HEAD

Manchester United did the double over Liverpool for the fourth time in the Premier League last season, and the second time in three seasons.

Manchester United were the only club to win home and away against the Merseysiders last season, but Liverpool were one of 12 doubled by the Red Devils in the last campaign.

United are aiming to beat Liverpool in the league for the fourth time in a row.

The only point in 18 Liverpool have notched against United came from a goalless draw at Anfield on 18 September 2005.

Home and away

League (inc PL): Liverpool 49 wins, Man Utd 56, Draws 43

Prem: Liverpool 7 wins, Man Utd 16, Draws 7 at Liverpool only

League (inc PL): Liverpool 35 wins, Man Utd 21, Draws 18

Prem: Liverpool 4 wins, Man Utd 8, Draws 3

[scousemouse]

A nice story for a change :

REDS SPREAD FESTIVE CHEER AT ALDER HEY

Paul Eaton 14 December 2007 Liverpool's first team squad yesterday took time out of their preparations for Sunday's showdown with Manchester United to spread some festive cheer on the children's ward at Alder Hey Hospital. All attentions on the field may be focused on this weekend's clash with the champions, but for one extra special afternoon the players were only to happy to play the role of Santa as they delivered presents, posed for pictures and signed autographs for kids who, sadly, face spending the Christmas period away from home.

The players were split into groups as they visited children on different wards of the hospital - all of whom were thrilled to come face to face with their heroes and have a one-off chance to speak football with their favourite stars.

While it was clearly a day of excitement for the kids, it was one of emotion for the players who were pleased to be able to play their part in making some Christmas dreams come true.

"This is something we do every year and I think it's really important that the lads come here and do what we can for these kids at this time of year," said defender Steve Finnan.

"Obviously some of them will get out before Christmas but others will be in hospital over the holiday period and it's nice that we've been able to come here today and put smiles on their faces.

"It's a difficult time for them being in hospital but if us coming along and giving them a present from the club cheers them up and makes them happy then that makes it all worthwhile for us."

Dutch star Ryan Babel added: "It's a really emotional experience. If we can give these kids the inspiration and faith to help with their healing then that's great.

"These kids have dreams as well and even though they're in hospital at the moment, hopefully they'll soon be able to get out and realise their ambitions."

It was a particularly poignant day for striker Dirk Kuyt, whose own son was admitted to Alder Hey children's ward shortly after his birth a few months ago.

"I have experience of this hospital and I've been here a few times before," he said. "I know how good it is and how important it is for this area. They do wonderful things for these children.

"It's great that we can walk into the ward and help the kids forget about their problems for a while. They're happy to have the Liverpool players in their hospital with presents for them.

"It was good to have a chat with them and sign autographs. We came across a few Evertonians as well which was fun and we did our best to change them!"

[scousemouse]

CARRAGHER HAILS 'UNSTOPPABLE' TORRES

Fernando Torres will be hoping to take his blistering form into today's clash with Manchester United at Anfield with Jamie Carragher already hailing him as one of the club's greatest ever strikers. With twelve goals to his name in his first season in English football, Torres has already shown why Rafael Benitez made him Liverpool's record signing during the summer - and another strike against United today would make him an even bigger hero on the Kop.

Carragher insists the Spanish striker is already our best striker since Michael Owen's departure - and with the potential to be regarded as a true Anfield legend in years to come.

"I hope Fernando is the striker who's going to make the difference for us," said Carragher. "He's as good as anyone in Europe at the moment.

"It's right to compare what he can do for us with what the likes of Tevez and Rooney can do for Manchester United.

"We now have a player in the same bracket, which is great for me as a defender because I know he can get us a goal out of nothing.

"Fernando is already one of the best players in the Premier League. The way he's been playing he looks unstoppable and I hope that's going to continue.

"I'm sure there are teams looking at him and saying 'I don't fancy playing against Torres'. That's something we've been lacking since Michael Owen left.

"He's certainly looking the part. He's been outstanding since the day he joined. It's not just the goals, it's the all-round work rate. It was a great bit of business by the club to get him here given his age and length of contract for six years.

"I hope we will have him for the peak of his career. We've had a great list of strikers here over the years and if he keeps going the way he is, he will definitely be up there with the best of them."

Torres is a certain starter against United this afternoon when Rafael Benitez will be looking to beat Alex Ferguson for the first time in a league game.

Victory for the Reds would close the gap on United to just three points and Carragher believes we could be set for the most open title race in years.

"I'm sure Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea will keep winning so it's up to us to prove we can stay with them," he added.

"It would be really exciting for the Premier League if it's a four horse race with ten games to go. I hope there are four of us up there come March or April - especially as we're the team which usually falls away.

"In the past the consistency of Chelsea was unbelievable and Arsenal went a full season unbeaten. Now the teams in the middle are taking points off us all, making it more competitive.

"Three points against United would put us right back in it."

[scousemouse]

An interview with Rafa before the big one ........... C'MON LIVERPOOL

Rafa Manchester United up next. How would you assess your own record against them?

If you analyse the statistics it is not the best but if you think about the games then all of them were really close. We lost 1-0 at home and 2-0 away last season. The away game was maybe the worst one but we controlled that game for the first 35 minutes. We had a very good idea of what to do and we were doing the right things but we couldn't score. Why? Because they have very good players and sometimes you can't score. At Anfield we were much better than them but we conceded a goal in the last minute from a free-kick. It was disappointing but we know we are really close to them.

You played well against Chelsea and drew the game, the same against Arsenal, so how vital is it that you win this game against another top four team?

I think it's important to win every game, especially at home. We have won a lot of games away from home and it's much better than last season. At home last season we had a very good record. This year, it's not bad because we have played against two of the top sides but we I think we can improve. If we can win against United this weekend it will be much better for our confidence and we can be more closer to the top. It's an important game for us and we must try and play at 100 per cent level the whole game.

The fans are desperate to win the league title. Does that make this Sunday's match 'must win' for you?

Always it's important to beat United, for our supporters and the rivalry between both clubs. We want to beat them and this year we are more closer to the top of the table so we have confidence. I think it will be a special game for us.

Do you think you have to win the game then?

At Liverpool you always have to win. If you asked the same question to (Sir Alex) Ferguson then he would say the same.

This fixture is always billed as the one to watch. Do you feel you now have the squad to match and beat Manchester United?

Yes. I think we were really close last season and we beat them in the FA Cup at home in 2005. The other games were really close. Also, they have spent a lot of money. People say you have spent a lot of money so you should win the title but they have spent more money than us. The question is they have a very good team and very good players. We also have the same and I think we can be closer this year and we can beat them.

In recent fixtures over the years you have conceded last minute goals to United. Is that something you will be telling your players to keep their concentration?

We conceded after 89 minutes last season so our idea is to be focused and concentrate for the whole game. I always say the small details can be a big difference.

</B>How confident are the squad after that performance in Marseille?</B>

Everyone is really happy and in training the atmosphere is really good. We scored four goals in midweek at a stadium that is not easy to win in and we have a lot of confidence.

</B>Jamie Carragher said during the week that he felt he thrived on 'must win' games and said that is similar a feeling throughout the squad. Is that something you would agree with Rafa that your players produce their best when they are under pressure?</B>

I feel that we have experience in these type of games. It's more difficult to play well when you are under pressure but we have showed character in a lot of games. I think we have the quality and the experience.

</B>Steven Gerrard became the club's top record scorer in Europe in midweek. To score 23 goals from midfield is an unbelievable record what can he go on to achieve.</B>

I think for a midfielder it's really difficult to score 23 goals in Europe but when you see a player with the quality of Steve you can understand why. He is very consistent and I think he will score a lot more goals in Europe for a very long time.

Somebody looking for that consistency is now Harry Kewell who got two assists in Marseille. He seems to be really showing he's a force to be reckoned with now he's back from injury…

Yes, we are really pleased with him. He is training well and playing well. He was a key player for us in Marseille.

In previous games against United you have had a lot of possession but maybe lacked ruthlessness and a cutting edge up front. Does Fernando Torres give you that?

Yes he gives us a lot more options. He can score goals and create goals for others and he is a big player for us.

[scousemouse]

Rafa has named an unchanged team for the match , which I'm happy with .

The mancs have named a strong line up .

Liverpool team in full: Reina, Arbeloa, Riise, Hyypia, Carragher, Mascherano, Gerrard, Benayoun, Kewell, Torres, Kuyt. Subs: Itandje, Babel, Crouch, Aurelio, Lucas.

Kick off 9 mins away .

[scousemouse]

scouse is not a happy mouse

[lazeeboy]

scouse is not a happy mouse

liverpool still not good enough ,same old story

[The Vulcan]

Rafa has named an unchanged team for the match , which I'm happy with .

The mancs have named a strong line up .

Liverpool team in full: Reina, Arbeloa, Riise, Hyypia, Carragher, Mascherano, Gerrard, Benayoun, Kewell, Torres, Kuyt. Subs: Itandje, Babel, Crouch, Aurelio, Lucas.

Kick off 9 mins away .

How could anybody be happy with Kewell and Aebeloa as starters and leave Babel and Aurelio on the bench?

We got ripped apart on the left side!

Ipso factso

[kopite]

scouse is not a happy mouse

liverpool still not good enough ,same old story

maybe so, but surprised to see the granny murderers come to anfield and and sit back after scoring. they didnt impress. we couldnt break them down and lacked in the last third of the pitch.

the meeting in the next few hours is more important

[The Vulcan]

Another False Dawn For Rafa's Reds

Want to know why Liverpool haven't won the title in 17 years? Sunday afternoon had the answer in a nutshell.

Once again any dreams of finally ending that long wait were put into stark focus as they failed miserably on the big occasion.

Senor Rafa Benitez now has one solitary point from 21 against his team's most bitter rivals - reigning champions Manchester United. He also has just four wins from 21 against United, Arsenal and Chelsea. The games that really matter.

So any delusions of being ready to take what they perceive to be their rightful place on the throne can only be seen as flattery of the most deceptive kind.

In recent seasons Liverpool have been exposed as domestic football's equivalent of flat-track bullies, plenty good enough to crush inferior opposition but found wanting against the big guns.

In days gone by you could just about win a title by beating the rest, but now that just won't cut it.

In a Premier League where even one defeat can be catastrophic the mini-league between the "top four" is often now what decides who eventually takes the glory.

The infuriating thing for Tom, George and the Anfield faithful is that the script on Sunday afternoon was so predictable. Territorial advantage, domination in terms of efforts on goal - and yet still another damaging defeat.

Rafa's decision to start with Harry Kewell and Dirk Kuyt proved a disaster while Peter Crouch and Ryan Babel waited impatiently in the wings.

After years of being ravaged by injury Kewell doesn't have the pace or confidence to trouble a top-line defence. Babel on the other hand does.

Kuyt, while industrious and willing, doesn't have the guile or physical presence to cut it at the very top level. Crouch, at least, has the latter.

By the time he did introduce the pair of them it was too late, the writing was already on the wall.

Just as they did last March, Liverpool took their eye off the ball for one second - one fatal second.

Then it was John O'Shea profiting, this time it was Carlos Tevez. Déjà vu, groundhog day. It was all so strikingly similar.

You can't deny that Benitez has bought some top players to Anfield - nobody can deny the quality of the likes of Fernando Torres or Javier Mascherano.

But despite the big-money buys, and the local backbone and brilliance provided by Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, there still appears to be an ingredient missing.

In some cases that can be provided by just one man - just remember that Sir Alex Ferguson searched six long years for the promised land before stumbling across one Eric Cantona.

Not many managers get that long these days to come up with the goods, and the goods at Anfield right now is top spot in English football.

Yes Benitez delivered the Champions League amid those amazing scenes in Istanbul in the summer of 2005. But right now that seems a distant memory.

There was a time when Liverpool fans expected title glory, almost like a divine right. Now for some it must seem like an impossible dream.

Manchester United waited 26 years to return to the summit - Liverpool have now waited 17. The similarities are striking - the sporadic brilliance, infuriating inconsistency and ability to come up short when it really matters.

With every passing year it gets harder - former glories weigh as heavy as an albatross.

Will Rafa be the man to finally end the drought? Right now I wouldn't bet on it. Would you?

[binnsy]

The goal had a touch of Sheringham about it .How much longer for Rafa?

[LeungKen]

Another False Dawn For Rafa's Reds

Want to know why Liverpool haven't won the title in 17 years? Sunday afternoon had the answer in a nutshell.

Once again any dreams of finally ending that long wait were put into stark focus as they failed miserably on the big occasion.

Senor Rafa Benitez now has one solitary point from 21 against his team's most bitter rivals - reigning champions Manchester United. He also has just four wins from 21 against United, Arsenal and Chelsea. The games that really matter.

So any delusions of being ready to take what they perceive to be their rightful place on the throne can only be seen as flattery of the most deceptive kind.

In recent seasons Liverpool have been exposed as domestic football's equivalent of flat-track bullies, plenty good enough to crush inferior opposition but found wanting against the big guns.

In days gone by you could just about win a title by beating the rest, but now that just won't cut it.

In a Premier League where even one defeat can be catastrophic the mini-league between the "top four" is often now what decides who eventually takes the glory.

The infuriating thing for Tom, George and the Anfield faithful is that the script on Sunday afternoon was so predictable. Territorial advantage, domination in terms of efforts on goal - and yet still another damaging defeat.

Rafa's decision to start with Harry Kewell and Dirk Kuyt proved a disaster while Peter Crouch and Ryan Babel waited impatiently in the wings.

After years of being ravaged by injury Kewell doesn't have the pace or confidence to trouble a top-line defence. Babel on the other hand does.

Kuyt, while industrious and willing, doesn't have the guile or physical presence to cut it at the very top level. Crouch, at least, has the latter.

By the time he did introduce the pair of them it was too late, the writing was already on the wall.

Just as they did last March, Liverpool took their eye off the ball for one second - one fatal second.

Then it was John O'Shea profiting, this time it was Carlos Tevez. Déjà vu, groundhog day. It was all so strikingly similar.

You can't deny that Benitez has bought some top players to Anfield - nobody can deny the quality of the likes of Fernando Torres or Javier Mascherano.

But despite the big-money buys, and the local backbone and brilliance provided by Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, there still appears to be an ingredient missing.

In some cases that can be provided by just one man - just remember that Sir Alex Ferguson searched six long years for the promised land before stumbling across one Eric Cantona.

Not many managers get that long these days to come up with the goods, and the goods at Anfield right now is top spot in English football.

Yes Benitez delivered the Champions League amid those amazing scenes in Istanbul in the summer of 2005. But right now that seems a distant memory.

There was a time when Liverpool fans expected title glory, almost like a divine right. Now for some it must seem like an impossible dream.

Manchester United waited 26 years to return to the summit - Liverpool have now waited 17. The similarities are striking - the sporadic brilliance, infuriating inconsistency and ability to come up short when it really matters.

With every passing year it gets harder - former glories weigh as heavy as an albatross.

Will Rafa be the man to finally end the drought? Right now I wouldn't bet on it. Would you?

Congratulations on an honest and well written study of Liverpool F.C.'s current problems, and it's well worth sending to the board at Anfield in my humble opinion.

[mrtoad]

I have to say, yesterday only reinforces my feelings that Rafa is not good enough when it really matters. Some of the tactics and selections were simply shocking. I just hope he stays at Liverpool.

As for Kewell, is there something in his contract that says he has to be picked for big games?

Not going to gloat though, but was very pleased with the result.

[kopite]

I have to say, yesterday only reinforces my feelings that Rafa is not good enough when it really matters.

bizarre statement. so we beat only soft teams on the way to two european cup finals then? what about the fa cup 2 years ago? arsenal, chelsea and man yoo?

Some of the tactics and selections were simply shocking

what tactics and selections were simply shocking?

Not going to gloat though

you just did

[mrtoad]

I have to say, yesterday only reinforces my feelings that Rafa is not good enough when it really matters.

bizarre statement. so we beat only soft teams on the way to two european cup finals then? what about the fa cup 2 years ago? arsenal, chelsea and man yoo?

Some of the tactics and selections were simply shocking

what tactics and selections were simply shocking?

Not going to gloat though

you just did

Casted the bait, and you bit. If I was gloating I could have said far more.

As regards the selection of Kewell in preference to Babel, and Kyut instead of Crouch, could you maybe explain, why the later two have been far more effective when they have played rather than the former, and why in big games these two seem to be left on the bench? Kewell for starters has constantly gone "missing" in big games during his years at Liverpool.

I have my opinion on RAFA, and I don't think in any honesty that he has got to grips with the premiership. His European record, I admit is good, but lets be fair, 17 years without a league title for a club like Liverpool,is far too long. There have been sporadic cup performances, but head to head against the top teams Liverpool have been pretty dissapointing in the results they have obtained.

Benitez's record against Chelski and Man U in the premiership = Played 14, Wins 1, Draws 2, Loses 11, Goals for 5, Goals against 18, Points 5.

Edited December 17, 2007 by mrtoad

[kopite]

As regards the selection of Kewell in preference to Babel, and Kyut instead of Crouch, could you maybe explain, why the later two have been far more effective when they have played rather than the former, and why in big games these two seem to be left on the bench? Kewell for starters has constantly gone "missing" in big games during his years at Liverpool.

ill give you babel, but not crouch. babel should have started for kuyt. kewell has been very effective for us since his comeback, dont really think he go's missing in big games.

I have my opinion on RAFA, and I don't think in any honesty that he has got to grips with the premiership. His European record, I admit is good, but lets be fair, 17 years without a league title for a club like Liverpool,is far too long. There have been sporadic cup performances, but head to head against the top teams Liverpool have been pretty dissapointing in the results they have obtained.

Benitez's record against Chelski and Man U in the premiership = Played 14, Wins 1, Draws 2, Loses 11, Goals for 5, Goals against 18, Points 5.

starting to sound like us now mr toad, bringing up the past

[mrtoad]

As regards the selection of Kewell in preference to Babel, and Kyut instead of Crouch, could you maybe explain, why the later two have been far more effective when they have played rather than the former, and why in big games these two seem to be left on the bench? Kewell for starters has constantly gone "missing" in big games during his years at Liverpool.

ill give you babel, but not crouch. babel should have started for kuyt. kewell has been very effective for us since his comeback, dont really think he go's missing in big games.

I have my opinion on RAFA, and I don't think in any honesty that he has got to grips with the premiership. His European record, I admit is good, but lets be fair, 17 years without a league title for a club like Liverpool,is far too long. There have been sporadic cup performances, but head to head against the top teams Liverpool have been pretty dissapointing in the results they have obtained.

Benitez's record against Chelski and Man U in the premiership = Played 14, Wins 1, Draws 2, Loses 11, Goals for 5, Goals against 18, Points 5.

starting to sound like us now mr toad, bringing up the past

Kopite, I wasn't having a go at Liverpool (which I think you know), in fact they have played some good football at times this season ( Man U fan saying that), and yesterday they certainly didn't deserve to lose. Even as a UNited fan, I would admit that Liverpool had a few more chances, and should have taken advantage of Van Der Sar's hesitency and failure to deal with crosses effectively yesterday.

What, I'm trying to point out is that Benitez's record in the EPL against the big teams is pretty poor, and these are the games that Liverpool need to win if they are going to win the title again. As much as I hate to admit it , the Liverpool fans deserve better than a team that finishes 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

I'm sure that they still have a big part to play in the title race, but that losing habit against Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea needs to be broken if they are to realise the goal of the title.

Anyway, it was a pretty enjoyable match to watch and I look forward to the return at Old Trafford.

[kopite]

Kopite, I wasn't having a go at Liverpool (which I think you know), in fact they have played some good football at times this season ( Man U fan saying that), and yesterday they certainly didn't deserve to lose. Even as a UNited fan, I would admit that Liverpool had a few more chances, and should have taken advantage of Van Der Sar's hesitency and failure to deal with crosses effectively yesterday.

i know your not having a dig mr toad.

we should have scored yesterday. which is what has been happening this year at home. most of the possesion and play, yet a constant failure to stick the ball in the net.

What, I'm trying to point out is that Benitez's record in the EPL against the big teams is pretty poor, and these are the games that Liverpool need to win if they are going to win the title again. As much as I hate to admit it , the Liverpool fans deserve better than a team that finishes 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

I'm sure that they still have a big part to play in the title race, but that losing habit against Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea needs to be broken if they are to realise the goal of the title.

Anyway, it was a pretty enjoyable match to watch and I look forward to the return at Old Trafford.

rafa's record against chelsea, arsenal, and united in the premiership has been poor. he's building a team, people keep going on about the money he's spent but dont realise that most of that has been spent improving the youth set up and players for the future. exactly what wenger has done at arsenal.

no gripes from me if we fail to win the league this year, im sure if rafa is given the time then he will get it right

[scousemouse]

At the end of the day we got beat fair and square .

It just didn't click in the final third of the pitch ( again ).

Hargreaves was a monster in midfield , Gerrard never got a sniff.

Torres will get another chance .

[mrtoad]

Kopite, what do you reckon of the Yank owners,? Do you think they will give Rafa much more time? I was a little taken aback that they had a " meeting" after the game last night, and the wording of it sounds like they aren't giving him full backing.

[scousemouse]

Kopite, what do you reckon of the Yank owners,? Do you think they will give Rafa much more time? I was a little taken aback that they had a " meeting" after the game last night, and the wording of it sounds like they aren't giving him full backing.

The meeting between them had been organised weeks ago.

It doesn't sound too good when a meeting is described as ' amicable ' .

Rumour has it that the owners are thinking of giving him no money to spend in January , but I reckon Rafa will be o-k thanks to our progression in the champions league .

[mrtoad]

Kopite, what do you reckon of the Yank owners,? Do you think they will give Rafa much more time? I was a little taken aback that they had a " meeting" after the game last night, and the wording of it sounds like they aren't giving him full backing.

The meeting between them had been organised weeks ago.

It doesn't sound too good when a meeting is described as ' amicable ' .

Rumour has it that the owners are thinking of giving him no money to spend in January , but I reckon Rafa will be o-k thanks to our progression in the champions league .

Yeah, the wording "Amicable" is hardly a ringing endorsement though. I also saw that, rumour about no money. If tyhat happens maybe they are just trying to force Rafa out.

[kopite]

Kopite, what do you reckon of the Yank owners,? Do you think they will give Rafa much more time? I was a little taken aback that they had a " meeting" after the game last night, and the wording of it sounds like they aren't giving him full backing.

The meeting between them had been organised weeks ago.

It doesn't sound too good when a meeting is described as ' amicable ' .

Rumour has it that the owners are thinking of giving him no money to spend in January , but I reckon Rafa will be o-k thanks to our progression in the champions league .

Yeah, the wording "Amicable" is hardly a ringing endorsement though. I also saw that, rumour about no money. If tyhat happens maybe they are just trying to force Rafa out.

i wouldnt bother reading anything that gets released by the club, and come to any conclusions.

all the official statements get released thru parry (i think that says it all)

i dont think he would walk away. he's in it for the long run. the fact that his missus told him that he could go and she would stay, when he was offered the real madrid job, speaks volumes.

they both love life in liverpool. kids have scouse accents