Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

[7by7]

Someone mentioned Chamberlain; anyone who lived in Germany in the 1930's would recognise many of the posts here.

Same rhetoric; just a different target.

I am obviously banging my head against a wall of prejudice here. I'll leave this topic to the ignorant.

[uptheos]

Transam:

So why do folk from religion dominated countries and lives come to a Christian country that they hate. Somebody tell me, perhaps you.

They don't!.

The vast majority of Muslims living in the UK were either born here or came to the UK in the hope of making a better life for themselves. They no more hate the UK than you hate Thailand! (Or maybe you do hate Thailand?)

What they do hate are these extremists who carry out these atrocities in the name of Islam!

Hundreds of thousands of Muslim soldiers fought, and many died, for this country in two world wars and many other campaigns. Many still do so today.

So WHY doesn't the supposed no.1, only religion in the world reel these folk in. WHY. WHY don't they teach what they do is against their beliefs and there will be noooooooooo harem for them. ??????????

In terms of followers; Christianity is the number one religion in the world; over 33% of those who follow a religion say they are Christian; about 21% say they are Muslim.

Prejudice and facts never go together!

I have not read the Koran; will those who claim it instructs Muslims to hate and murder non Muslims supply the appropriate quotes with references so I can check?

E.g., book A, verse X says..........

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

[TexasRanger]

I don't care if they are muslim or not, any sick animal that can try and cut someones head off deserves a punishment that will never be given to them in a "civilised" country.

R.I.P. my brother in arms.

[Mosha]

Yes, like Mosha you ignore facts in favour of your prejudices.

You must be a southerner. Go live in the old Yorkshire/Lancashire mill towns

[FDog]

I live in Malaysia, a very nice place and the people are absolutely lovely. I do prefer the company of the Malay muslims to the Indian and Chinese here.

Just a question. Has it become the norm for every assault to now be labelled a terrorist attack? Just seems to me that any assault or murder to do with race or religion these days is a terrorist attack instead of just saying some mentally retarded morons murdered and innocent person.

The language of using the word 'terrorist' in this instance seems to be begging for reprisals and inflammation. That's just my 2 satang worth anyway.

PS: No I don't think they should be shot, hanged, executed etc. I would prefer they were tied to a pole in Hyde Park and let the locals throw rocks at them for a few days then set them on fire.

[geriatrickid]

Yes, like Mosha you ignore facts in favour of your prejudices.

Your claim is a simple dismissal. The fact, is that Mosha raised a valid point. Throughout this thread you have followed the same line of attempted distraction as Mr. Galloway. He tried to excuse the attacks by referring to the Syrian rebels. In your earlier posts, you referred to zionists and Christian denominations. This is not about Christians nor Jews. Nor is it about alleged discrimination against some muslims resident in the UK. This thread is about ANOTHER terrorist event involving muslims in the UK.

The reality is that the UK muslim community has not taken the lead in fighting the spread of hate. Rather, many mosques and Imans continue to be centres of hate and the propagation of violence against their host country. The UK government and non muslim community leaders have always attempted to downplay the nature of these events, as the ramifications of treating a religious group as enemies/fifth columnists, would have some horrific consequences. In an effort to protect the social fabric and to avoid the loss of life these leaders have trotted out "good" muslims and the public is treated to shows of quasi loyalty. The time has come for the UK to take a stand and to ask all of its citizens, are you loyal to the principles of the nation or are you not? Those that cannot abide by the basic rules of civilized society will have to be dealt with accordingly. The continued terrorist attacks are taking a toll on the nation's freedoms and mental health of the population. There comes a time when one must stand up to bullies and extortionists and to stop living in fear of being considered a bigot.

[geriatrickid]

I live in Malaysia, a very nice place and the people are absolutely lovely. I do prefer the company of the Malay muslims to the Indian and Chinese here.

Just a question. Has it become the norm for every assault to now be labelled a terrorist attack? Just seems to me that any assault or murder to do with race or religion these days is a terrorist attack instead of just saying some mentally retarded morons murdered and innocent person.

The language of using the word 'terrorist' in this instance seems to be begging for reprisals and inflammation. That's just my 2 satang worth anyway.

PS: No I don't think they should be shot, hanged, executed etc. I would prefer they were tied to a pole in Hyde Park and let the locals throw rocks at them for a few days then set them on fire.

When the murderer(s) scream allah akbar, and then offer their sick explanation as to why they killed the "infidel", I don't think one need doubt this is anything but a terror incident.

[geriatrickid]

Someone mentioned Chamberlain; anyone who lived in Germany in the 1930's would recognise many of the posts here.

Same rhetoric; just a different target.

I am obviously banging my head against a wall of prejudice here. I'll leave this topic to the ignorant.

Again, you dismiss those that do not accept your explanations or position as "ignorant". Those that disagree, are not. Rather, they have read their history and have valid concerns. Why not make an effort at understanding their concerns, instead of dismissing them outright? Is it because you too harbour a hatred for their way of life or have your own grudge?

The comments made reflect the pain and concern that the vast majority of people have. Rest assured, that the UK will not give 24 hours to its muslim residents to leave the country as Egypt did to the Jews. Nor will there be state sanctioned targeting of Muslims as there is of the harrassed Christian community in Egypt and in Pakistan. Unlike most of the muslim world, the west accommodates people with different religious beliefs.

[Mosha]

7 by 7/ Re my prejudices v your rose tinted glasses I'm an athiest, but any one ultimately not believing in their version of Santa, will suffer the same fate as that poor sod in London. I'd get ready if I was you.

I'm on GK's side Shock horror 555

Edited May 23, 2013 by Mosha

[sjjmmi]

Hang them Both

Twice

[RickBradford]

The Muslim Council of Britain called the attack "a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam,"

Presumably then, the MCB would not object if an Islamic punishment were meted out to these two excuses for human beings, especially since it oversees the use of sharia law in the UK (yes, the UK has sharia law already for some situations).

Perhaps they could use their good offices with the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, and get them to lend us their official executioner with the big scimitar to carry out the punishment somewhere appropriate -- Wembley Stadium, perhaps.

Even if it doesn't deter other fanatics, it might defuse some of the anger among the real knuckle-draggers of the EDL.

One stark lesson that history teaches us is: appeasing fanatics never works, it only encourages them.

[Mosha]

I'll revisit this later, I've already scored one point in another topic lol All religions share one thing. You don't believe in their version, you burn. Only muslims terrorists seem determined to send you there pdq

[skippybangkok]

I know many Muslims and have lived in Muslim countries. The vast majority I've met are decent law abiding people who want the best for their families and respect everyone, regardless of religion or ethnic origin. Attacking these people drives them into the arms of the terrorists who will gladly manipulate them.

The french freedom fighters in German occupied France were the hero's, and the average man on the street were banking on them to deliver results, but of course the general public could not come out and openly express their support for the freedom fighters.

My experience in Malaysia - it was clear that the average guy in the average village was in support of Osama Dead Bin Laden.

Hit em where it hurts bad enough for them to call the dogs back in

Don't kid yourself

Edited May 23, 2013 by skippybangkok

[bangkockney]

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Taken out of context to bash Islam and spew your own foul propaganda.

Not to mention it is but one of many translations of that passage?

E.g Muhammad Sarwar: Your Lord inspired the angels saying, "I am with you. Encourage the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and you will strike their heads and limbs;

In other words: you're about to fight for your survival, but because God is on your side you will be successfull in battle.

I've heard similar speeches rousing troops from great leaders of men. You don't have a problem with a British Platoon/Company Commander inspiring his troops before battle in 'Stan do you?

Do you know anything about the passages before and after, the historical context of what was written?

This verse is lifted from several describing the Battle of Badr, C7 AD.

The pagans of Makkah marched to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims, where there was severe persecutions and torture for 13 years against them.

The Muslims fled to Medinah with a small army of around 300. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.

No fighting if peace is on the cards:

8:61 But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things).

60:08 God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just.

60:09 God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these

circumstances), that do wrong.

How about some quotes with no context from the Bible to further prove my point:

KJV-Matthew 10:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

1 Samuel:

And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

Get it yet?

Edited May 23, 2013 by bangkockney

[Rumblecat]

Outrageous, what has Britain become, where a member of Her Majesty's Armed Fforces can't walk the streets without facing attack? Powells "Rivers of blood" speech may actually have prophesied just that, although probably not his intention.

For too long have the "British" people been like a sleeping dog, laying complacent at the hearth. Now these animals welcomed in & given every opportunity have become so emboldened as to commit this horrific act on Britains streets.

Too late for government to act, as "they" are already embeded in every aspect of political life in the UK. The "mindless morons of the EDL" as some on this forum have called them, are now apparently the last bastion for repriasal as far as Britain is concerned & good luck to them.

Every Muslim living in Britian should should feel shame upon themselves & Islam for breeding, & harbouring such hatred for a country that allowed them to thrive.

Regardless where these animals came from, they are Muslims, no matter what denials or renunciation the Islamic mouth piece in the UK comes out with.

I've read some absolute wet liberal crap on here regarding this & most of it from brits, no wonder the country is in shit, for want of a better term. All Muslims in the UK are now fair game, month after month I read of "home grown" would be Islamic terrorists, of Muslim men colluding on child grooming & rape. Enough is enough...

You're a nasty piece of work, aren't you? I know plenty of peaceful and kind Muslims in the UK- my best friend being one of them- and to label them "fair game" is ridiculous and frankly disgusting... What about those of Pakistani descent who are atheists? Like a mate of mine who had his head kicked in for the odious crime of being the wrong colour, thanks to people like you.

And as for child grooming and rape...

Well, you're right about that. The white community should be ashamed. It's disgusting what white people are doing. I'm with you on that. So, fair play... I don't know I'm not sure why it's white English thing to want to have sex with little children, but I guess you'll agree that any white English folk are 'fair game'...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/06/sexual-abuse-in-white-community

[terrythai]

Started to write something but I am too full of hatred for these people to keep it within forum rules.

I am seething with anger over these animals.

Enough is enough!

[Steely Dan]

If this attack had been the other way round, What do you think would be going on in places like Dewsbury and Batley and Bradford?

Exactly Mosha, the cities would be burning, Brits killed by the hundreds.

Defend the indefensible, but any religion that is intolerant of others is more than dangerous.

Muslims are attacked and discriminated against on a regular basis in the UK; yet the violence you hint at doesn't happen.

Muslims being physically attacked and harassed because of their faith

Muslims call for action against hate crimes

>MCB secretary-general Farooq Murad will tell the council's AGM in Birmingham that there must be more monitoring of anti-Muslim crimes in response to incidents including violent assaults, death threats and the desecration of graves. He will also complain that not enough is being done to encourage communities to report crimes to the police.

Nothing on the hate crime figures against Jews, and Muslims are responsible for 50% of those.

http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/uk-shocking-rise-in-hate-crimes-against-jewish-community-in-europe/

It's a good thing the Jews in 30's Germany didn't go around blowing up trains and decapitating people, or they would have got the Nazis really riled.

[bangkockney]

If this attack had been the other way round, What do you think would be going on in places like Dewsbury and Batley and Bradford?

Exactly Mosha, the cities would be burning, Brits killed by the hundreds.

Defend the indefensible, but any religion that is intolerant of others is more than dangerous.

Muslims are attacked and discriminated against on a regular basis in the UK; yet the violence you hint at doesn't happen.

Muslims being physically attacked and harassed because of their faith

Muslims call for action against hate crimes

>MCB secretary-general Farooq Murad will tell the council's AGM in Birmingham that there must be more monitoring of anti-Muslim crimes in response to incidents including violent assaults, death threats and the desecration of graves. He will also complain that not enough is being done to encourage communities to report crimes to the police.

Nothing on the hate crime figures against Jews, and Muslims are responsible for 50% of those.

http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/uk-shocking-rise-in-hate-crimes-against-jewish-community-in-europe/

It's a good thing the Jews in 30's Germany didn't go around blowing up trains and decapitating people, or they would have got the Nazis really riled.

One word in retort: Palestine.

[jaffacakes1]

To be a true Muslim, one must take the Quar'an as being the literal word of god. For the benefit or anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to read the full text I refer you simply to the verse of the sword;

"Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them: seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)."

Gods don't kill people

People with Gods kill people

[Goshawk]

i predict a riot....

[bangkockney]

To be a true Muslim, one must take the Quar'an as being the literal word of god. For the benefit or anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to read the full text I refer you simply to the verse of the sword;

"Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them: seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)."

Gods don't kill people

People with Gods kill people

Another shoddy smear attempt. You claim to have read the Quran. At worst, I call unequivocal BS.

At best, you didn't understand a single word and lack any intelligence to understand context.

Stop cherry-picking and post the whole chapter. Or people in this thread, read the whole of Chapter 9.

There is nothing in the Quran that justifies the complete freedom to kill non-believers.

[philw]

I live in Malaysia, a very nice place and the people are absolutely lovely. I do prefer the company of the Malay muslims to the Indian and Chinese here.

Just a question. Has it become the norm for every assault to now be labelled a terrorist attack? Just seems to me that any assault or murder to do with race or religion these days is a terrorist attack instead of just saying some mentally retarded morons murdered and innocent person.

The language of using the word 'terrorist' in this instance seems to be begging for reprisals and inflammation. That's just my 2 satang worth anyway.

PS: No I don't think they should be shot, hanged, executed etc. I would prefer they were tied to a pole in Hyde Park and let the locals throw rocks at them for a few days then set them on fire.

When the murderer(s) scream allah akbar, and then offer their sick explanation as to why they killed the "infidel", I don't think one need doubt this is anything but a terror incident.

Utter nonsense.

It's two loonies..................

[philw]

I'll revisit this later, I've already scored one point in another topic lol All religions share one thing. You don't believe in their version, you burn. Only muslims terrorists seem determined to send you there pdq

That's not quite true...................

[transam]

To be a true Muslim, one must take the Quar'an as being the literal word of god. For the benefit or anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to read the full text I refer you simply to the verse of the sword;

"Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them: seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)."

Gods don't kill people

People with Gods kill people

Another shoddy smear attempt. You claim to have read the Quran. At worst, I call unequivocal BS.

At best, you didn't understand a single word and lack any intelligence to understand context.

Stop cherry-picking and post the whole chapter. Or people in this thread, read the whole of Chapter 9.

There is nothing in the Quran that justifies the complete freedom to kill non-believers.

Why don't you have a quiet word with the bloke with the blooded clever then.

[sustento]

The majority of Muslims in the UK are of Pakistani descent.

Not Arabic descent; not Arabs either ethnically nor by any other measure!

Prejudice and facts; oil and water.

I initially wanted to write Muslim countries, but changed it to Arab countries to avoid smart arse remarks in the line of, what are muslim countries.

I think you get my point.

Of the ten countries in the world with the most Muslim populations none are in Arabia.

[sustento]

Outrageous, what has Britain become, where a member of Her Majesty's Armed Fforces can't walk the streets without facing attack? Powells "Rivers of blood" speech may actually have prophesied just that, although probably not his intention.

For too long have the "British" people been like a sleeping dog, laying complacent at the hearth. Now these animals welcomed in & given every opportunity have become so emboldened as to commit this horrific act on Britains streets.

Too late for government to act, as "they" are already embeded in every aspect of political life in the UK. The "mindless morons of the EDL" as some on this forum have called them, are now apparently the last bastion for repriasal as far as Britain is concerned & good luck to them.

Every Muslim living in Britian should should feel shame upon themselves & Islam for breeding, & harbouring such hatred for a country that allowed them to thrive.

Regardless where these animals came from, they are Muslims, no matter what denials or renunciation the Islamic mouth piece in the UK comes out with.

I've read some absolute wet liberal crap on here regarding this & most of it from brits, no wonder the country is in shit, for want of a better term. All Muslims in the UK are now fair game,

Even the bloke who delivers my newspaper every morning?

[Mosha]

I'll revisit this later, I've already scored one point in another topic lol All religions share one thing. You don't believe in their version, you burn. Only muslims terrorists seem determined to send you there pdq

That's not quite true...................

Then visit Dewsbury

[sustento]

The Muslim Council of Britain called the attack "a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam,"

Presumably then, the MCB would not object if an Islamic punishment were meted out to these two excuses for human beings, especially since it oversees the use of sharia law in the UK (yes, the UK has sharia law already for some situations).

It also has Beth Din courts for some situations too.

[Fantastic5]

I

The Muslim Council of Britain called the attack "a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam," the Press Association reported.

That's why the two murderers were shouting Allahu Akbar. It's strange how such violent acts have apparently no basis in Islam, yet this seems to be misunderstood worldwide on a daily basis. I wonder why no other religion seems to be so misunderstood.

So if they where resisting a Buddhist chant would that make it a busiest thing or if they where to say in the name of god through Jesus we offer this sacrifice would it mean it was a act of Christianity? No it wouldn't it would mean it was a sick twisted individual.

As is goes Islam is prevalent in many illiterate populations with many educated people twisting the Quran to to get people to do barbaric disgusting things.

These people are the biggest enemies of Islam and all Muslims that want to live peacefully.

I fortunate to be very mixed with three very different ethnicities one of them happens to be Nigerian, I am a Muslim and served in the British forces, my youngest brother is at navy officers academy and the other younger brother at uni on a millinery scholarship in the UK. I have friends who are Muslims who have given there lives fighting these people and I believe it very ignorant for people to see it as a act of Islam, but non the less, it surprises me not its just a shame that the un educated trolls can course so much damaged fuelled by crazy twisted people who don't deserve the death penalty and should be left to rot in a cold damp castle cell in with white noise constantly playing.

[Fantastic5]

I live in Malaysia, a very nice place and the people are absolutely lovely. I do prefer the company of the Malay muslims to the Indian and Chinese here.

Just a question. Has it become the norm for every assault to now be labelled a terrorist attack? Just seems to me that any assault or murder to do with race or religion these days is a terrorist attack instead of just saying some mentally retarded morons murdered and innocent person.

The language of using the word 'terrorist' in this instance seems to be begging for reprisals and inflammation. That's just my 2 satang worth anyway.

PS: No I don't think they should be shot, hanged, executed etc. I would prefer they were tied to a pole in Hyde Park and let the locals throw rocks at them for a few days then set them on fire.

very well said, a post is needed every now and then that has had some thought and common sense put into it.