Marine eco-system in the Gulf at risk of collapse: Greenpeace

oops · July 1, 2013

why bother, the thai people do not give a shit about their own country, all that matters is money. Just look at the filth and crap all over the place, they have no respect for anything. This is so disheartening, it is a beautiful country but the people just dont care about it. How do you teach people to respect their own country when they are lazy and too proud to do the right thing, it is easier to throw your rubbish in the street than it is to bin it. They really nned a clean up Thailand day but no one would attend because it would mean working and that would cause too many to loose face, pathetic......

Being a diver and avid lover of the ocean, I was shocked in horror the first time I went to to Pattaya in 1999. I went with a group of friends on a chartered bus which dropped us off right on the beach. I proceeded to run right into the ocean ignoring the people behind me mostly Thai....screaming Don't ! Don't !. as I ran into the water I noticed a funny feeling around my legs, as I looked down I noticed I had tons of trash wrapped around my legs gazing at this then moving my focus to the area directly around me, I noticed that there was trash everywhere. The trash was so thick I couldn't believe my eyes. I never went back until about 10 years later when I had to go there for some reason. I noticed that the face of Pattaya had changed looking new and exciting. However, the water was still the same. Getting to my point, I visited Khao Larn with some friends only to see why there is so much trash in Pattaya. We were sitting on the back porch of a beach cabin while looking over at the homes that lined the shore , pretending or ignoring the trash that was just under the surface of the clear ocean waters trying to stay focused on the beauty when we witnessed a man walk out of his home and toss a huge bag of trash into the water. with in an hour the trash was all over the shore line as he then reappeared without a care in the world.. I guess I was truly bothered more by the ignorance of this guy more than the trash on the shore. I couldn't help but too think that there really are people who will actually pee in the wind, just to shower. The beach was right at his front door.... I just can't understand why he would throw trash in his front yard. Then looking deeper into the water you could clearly see he wasn't the only one. Even now I just can't believe they still haven't done anything about it, yet people keep coming to this sh** whole.

Edited July 1, 2013 by oops

francescoassisi · July 1, 2013

Exactly the same situation in the Andaman sea. Can frequently see thousands of fish fry being sold at markets as anchovies, when in fact they are just fry of what would have grown to far larger fish. The famous Phuket Lobster no longer exists off the coast of Phuket.

Whereas the Andaman certainly has problems it is NOT exactly the same and the Gulf which is an enclosed sea and in reality turning into a cesspit for the nations that surround bit.

francescoassisi · July 1, 2013

why bother, the thai people do not give a shit about their own country, all that matters is money. Just look at the filth and crap all over the place, they have no respect for anything. This is so disheartening, it is a beautiful country but the people just dont care about it. How do you teach people to respect their own country when they are lazy and too proud to do the right thing, it is easier to throw your rubbish in the street than it is to bin it. They really nned a clean up Thailand day but no one would attend because it would mean working and that would cause too many to loose face, pathetic......
Being a diver and avid lover of the ocean, I was shocked in horror the first time I went to to Pattaya in 1999. I went with a group of friends on a chartered bus which dropped us off right on the beach. I proceeded to run right into the ocean ignoring the people behind me mostly Thai....screaming Don't ! Don't !. as I ran into the water I noticed a funny feeling around my legs, as I looked down I noticed I had tons of trash wrapped around my legs gazing at this then moving my focus to the area directly around me, I noticed that there was trash everywhere. The trash was so thick I couldn't believe my eyes. I never went back until about 10 years later when I had to go there for some reason. I noticed that the face of Pattaya had changed looking new and exciting. However, the water was still the same. Getting to my point, I visited Khao Larn with some friends only to see why there is so much trash in Pattaya. We were sitting on the back porch of a beach cabin while looking over at the homes that lined the shore , pretending or ignoring the trash that was just under the surface of the clear ocean waters trying to stay focused on the beauty when we witnessed a man walk out of his home and toss a huge bag of trash into the water. with in an hour the trash was all over the shore line as he then reappeared without a care in the world.. I guess I was truly bothered more by the ignorance of this guy more than the trash on the shore. I couldn't help but too think that there really are people who will actually pee in the wind, just to shower. The beach was right at his front door.... I just can't understand why he would throw trash in his front yard. Then looking deeper into the water you could clearly see he wasn't the only one. Even now I just can't believe they still haven't done anything about it, yet people keep coming to this sh** whole.

Are you talking about attitude here or chase and effect?

As a diver you must be aware if the effects of wind currents and tide on the distribution of pollution in the sea.....and it is not just the stuff you can see that is so bad......many pollutants are clear and odourless.

Poorly designed effluent outlets can mean that anything they release is swept along to beaches used by tourists......but the source of rubbish is seldom just local...it is swept along by tides and current from country to country and much is dumped from ships at sea - totally unregulated.

Next time you find yourself on a beach, take a stroll down the tide line and examine the garbage there - plastics are particularly common - look at the writing on the con trainers etc - you might be surprised how far from origin some if it has come.

retell · July 1, 2013

Sad to see so many blatantly racist slurs alleging a stereotypical Thai character.

There are Nearly 70 million people in Thailand of various ethnicities and they certainly don't all share the same opinions or universal negative characteristics....... Conclusion? Citing "Thai-ness" as the problem is barking up the wrong tree.

kudos to this post

wanted to say something like this but the words escaped me

need more of "your kind" around here hahaha

Soutpeel · July 1, 2013

it's enough to make one turn vegetarian ...soon we may all end up eating our own words, just as most of all our fearless leaders have done

nom nom nom

Never turn vegetarian, i am too addicted to munching meaty muffins.

If vegetarian's are trying to save the animals....why do they eat all the animals food ?

A markedly facile comment. If you check out figures such as proteine per acre, you'll see that vegetables are actually a much more efficient way of producing feed.... Even for humans

Oh dear....my comment is actually a joke...

retell · July 1, 2013

it's enough to make one turn vegetarian ...soon we may all end up eating our own words, just as most of all our fearless leaders have done

nom nom nom

Never turn vegetarian, i am too addicted to munching meaty muffins.

If vegetarian's are trying to save the animals....why do they eat all the animals food ?

A markedly facile comment. If you check out figures such as proteine per acre, you'll see that vegetables are actually a much more efficient way of producing feed.... Even for humans

better or not i just like the taste , a block of tahu simply does not have that and i tried many times to make it tasty , its like having a cup of soymilk what is not bad tasting exept when you think it's real milk in there then the first sip is horrible

robblok · July 1, 2013

That just went in one ear and out the other.

Even after the last fish in the sea is caught, if there is still a single baht to be made somewhere they'll invent new ways to mess it all up even more.

When the last tree has died, and the last fish is gone, man will realise he cannot eat money................but don't just blame Thailand.... this is almost global. Or as they are now saying "This world has enough for every ones need; but not for their greed.

I dont want to say too much about how good the west is but in the Netherlands now fish are returning to the rivers and they are cleaner as 40 years ago. Also the fish in the North Sea is getting stocked again. Sure its still not perfect but its getting better we are seeing more dolphin like animals there too nowadays.

ricku · July 1, 2013

... How do you teach people to respect their own country when they are lazy and too proud to do the right thing, it is easier to throw your rubbish in the street than it is to bin it......

There is ONE MAN who could change a lot of this with a few speeches ...

I am forever pondering why he doesnt.

Is it all hidden from him?

There are many things that this man could change, simply by using his voice. But alas, he stays silent.

Edited July 1, 2013 by ricku

ricku · July 1, 2013

Humans are not actually mammals.

Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment. But humans do not! They move to an area and multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed, and then they spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.

- Agenth Smith, The Matrix.

Edited July 1, 2013 by ricku

wilcopops · July 1, 2013

We've been hearing doom and gloom for a long, long time and I do believe it is coming. What I'm waiting for is to hear it IS NOW too late and there is no way to save it or it's so unprofitable to fish that all fishermen go out of business. It's coming...

There can be no enforcement of laws when corruption is a deeply engrained way of life.

Humans are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but humans do not. They move to an area and multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed, and then they spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.

- Agenth Smith, The Matrix.

...and how does this wildly inaccurate shallow statement do anything to enrich the discussion?

ricku · July 1, 2013

We've been hearing doom and gloom for a long, long time and I do believe it is coming. What I'm waiting for is to hear it IS NOW too late and there is no way to save it or it's so unprofitable to fish that all fishermen go out of business. It's coming...

There can be no enforcement of laws when corruption is a deeply engrained way of life.

Humans are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but humans do not. They move to an area and multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed, and then they spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.

- Agenth Smith, The Matrix.

...and how does this wildly inaccurate shallow statement do anything to enrich the discussion?

How does yours?

mancub · July 1, 2013

To address a problem , you first have to recognize it as such .....over to the Thai government and ....cue the denials .

retell · July 1, 2013

That just went in one ear and out the other.

Even after the last fish in the sea is caught, if there is still a single baht to be made somewhere they'll invent new ways to mess it all up even more.

When the last tree has died, and the last fish is gone, man will realise he cannot eat money................but don't just blame Thailand.... this is almost global. Or as they are now saying "This world has enough for every ones need; but not for their greed.

I dont want to say too much about how good the west is but in the Netherlands now fish are returning to the rivers and they are cleaner as 40 years ago. Also the fish in the North Sea is getting stocked again. Sure its still not perfect but its getting better we are seeing more dolphin like animals there too nowadays.

yep and chinese crabs in the amsterdam canals https://www.google.co.th/webhp?hl=en&tab=Tw&q=grachten#safe=off&hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=chinese+krabben+amsterdamse+grachten&oq=chinese+krabben+amsterdamse+grachten&gs_l=hp.3...55301.57756.1.59177.8.8.0.0.0.0.120.865.1j7.8.0...0.0.0..1c.1.17.psy-ab.erFfWCDhr0s&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48572450,d.bmk&fp=ee3f0e7271aa5c2b&biw=1600&bih=775 (dutch)

Edited July 1, 2013 by retell

nakhonandy · July 1, 2013

This has been happening for years.

Being a diver and living here I have seen the drop in fish on the reefs.

We cut a huge net off a wreck a couple of months ago that was torn from a bottom trawler. The net mesh was 2mm square, nothing esvapes that. These are the fisherman causing the decline, the big boys, not the local guys with the fish traps.

Pollution in populated areas is another big issue.

The only way to stop it is education and enforcing the existing laws with massive fines. Money talks here.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

berg1666 · July 1, 2013

All very well, but every developed nation of the world became developed by thrashing to death its own (and often its colonies') natural resources. The model was set by the rich nations of the world, and now we criticise the poor nations for following the same path??

North Atlantic Cod? Pacific Salmon? Yellow fin tuna? American Bison? Lebanese cedar? Carrier pigeons? All decimated by "developed" countries. Hell, the Romans so completely logged out their own forests that by the 3rd century they could only fire up the bakery ovens once a month, wood was in such short supply! The list goes on and on. Saw a photo in a magazine the other day, where 100 fishermen on a fishing trip caught 3000 (yes three thousand) snapper in 4 hours in Auckland in the 1930s, and you know half of that ended up as garden fertiliser.

Wanton destruction cannot continue, but Thailand needs solutions and systems to manage its natural resources, not finger wagging and tut tutting from the bourgeoisie whose societies have already reaped the economic benefit of destroying their own natural environment (short term though it may be).

wilcopops · July 1, 2013

This has been happening for years.

Being a diver and living here I have seen the drop in fish on the reefs.

We cut a huge net off a wreck a couple of months ago that was torn from a bottom trawler. The net mesh was 2mm square, nothing esvapes that. These are the fisherman causing the decline, the big boys, not the local guys with the fish traps.

Pollution in populated areas is another big issue.

The only way to stop it is education and enforcing the existing laws with massive fines. Money talks here.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

"This has been happening for years." - yes, that's why it is a problem.....these things don't just suddenly occur they are the result of long periods of inaction and neglect.

The diving schools in Koh Chang have fro years been concerned but they have a dilemma: - if they complain they advertise the fact that the diving around KC is compromised, so instead they just get faster boats and go further and further afield in their search for passable dive sites. Apart from the waters of the Gulf, the island itself is a major source of pollution.

Edited July 1, 2013 by wilcopops

wilcopops · July 1, 2013

All very well, but every developed nation of the world became developed by thrashing to death its own (and often its colonies') natural resources. The model was set by the rich nations of the world, and now we criticise the poor nations for following the same path??

North Atlantic Cod? Pacific Salmon? Yellow fin tuna? American Bison? Lebanese cedar? Carrier pigeons? All decimated by "developed" countries. Hell, the Romans so completely logged out their own forests that by the 3rd century they could only fire up the bakery ovens once a month, wood was in such short supply! The list goes on and on. Saw a photo in a magazine the other day, where 100 fishermen on a fishing trip caught 3000 (yes three thousand) snapper in 4 hours in Auckland in the 1930s, and you know half of that ended up as garden fertiliser.

Wanton destruction cannot continue, but Thailand needs solutions and systems to manage its natural resources, not finger wagging and tut tutting from the bourgeoisie whose societies have already reaped the economic benefit of destroying their own natural environment (short term though it may be).

What is so frustrating is that the west was the first to pollute, the first to identify pollution and now in general is taking steps to curb this sort of thing.

Finger -wagging?????? - THis knowledge is FREELY AVAILABLE to the rest of the world including Thailand who make a conscious choice to ignore it.

"you did it so now we''ll do it" is NOT a valid argument........

Thailand also is not a "poor struggling developing" nation it is very wealthy and has the werewithall to tackle the problems - unfortunately it has a selfish ruling elite who like to maintain the status quo on their own power and life-style.

Edited July 1, 2013 by wilcopops

rbrooks · July 1, 2013

Sad to see so many blatantly racist slurs alleging a stereotypical Thai character.

There are Nearly 70 million people in Thailand of various ethnicities and they certainly don't all share the same opinions or universal negative characteristics....... Conclusion? Citing "Thai-ness" as the problem is barking up the wrong tree.

Unfortunately "Thai-ness" is the problem. The Thais created the problem, are aware of the problem, have had many solutions to the problem and have basically done nothing. They will only begin to act when they cannot fish their waters. Thailand is no longer a third world and have the resources to begin to clean up their waters but merely decide to look away. Thai education is also at fault here because they do not educate the Thai people enough about marine eco-systems.

guzzi850m2 · July 1, 2013

Yes it's really sad, too many people on this planet.

If we were only say 10% of the current population many problems would be solved.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

wilcopops · July 1, 2013

Yes it's really sad, too many people on this planet.

If we were only say 10% of the current population many problems would be solved.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Absolute nonsense!

wilcopops · July 1, 2013

Sad to see so many blatantly racist slurs alleging a stereotypical Thai character.

There are Nearly 70 million people in Thailand of various ethnicities and they certainly don't all share the same opinions or universal negative characteristics....... Conclusion? Citing "Thai-ness" as the problem is barking up the wrong tree.

Unfortunately "Thai-ness" is the problem. The Thais created the problem, are aware of the problem, have had many solutions to the problem and have basically done nothing. They will only begin to act when they cannot fish their waters. Thailand is no longer a third world and have the resources to begin to clean up their waters but merely decide to look away. Thai education is also at fault here because they do not educate the Thai people enough about marine eco-systems.

This is such a blinkered approach I hardly think it is worth replying. ......but ti suggest that there is something inate in Thailand or the Thai genes that has led to the current situation is to display a profoundly deep ignorance of the causes and symptoms of pollution and environmental damage and to think that Thai is somehow in isolation from the rest of the world is going from the sublime to the ridiculous. If you feel the need to pronounce on issues concerning the environment at least get up to speeed on the issues - it will save wasting your time typing out the above simplistic inaccurate nonsense.

cheshiremusicman · July 1, 2013

... How do you teach people to respect their own country when they are lazy and too proud to do the right thing, it is easier to throw your rubbish in the street than it is to bin it......

There is ONE MAN who could change a lot of this with a few speeches ...

I am forever pondering why he doesnt.

Is it all hidden from him?

Totally agree!

If HE that you elude to went out on the 'State Television' and spoke to the Children of Thailand and TOLD THEM NOT to throw trash into the streets and to clean up their neighbourhood it WOULD happen. IF the school children went home and told their parents that this is what the 'ONE MAN' WANTED IT WOULD BE DONE. Imagine Thailand having a competition for the cleanest, tidiest, most attractive village or town, as some countries still do, what would this do for this lovely country? Education, Education, Education from the earliest years and make the people proud of their country, but it NEEDS someone in AUTHORITY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

I believe, that this someone that can't be named NEVER sees this crap that we all see day in and day out and lives in a cleansed world of make believe built around any place that is visited by the same person.

phuketsub · July 2, 2013

That just went in one ear and out the other.

Even after the last fish in the sea is caught, if there is still a single baht to be made somewhere they'll invent new ways to mess it all up even more.

When the last tree has died, and the last fish is gone, man will realise he cannot eat money................but don't just blame Thailand.... this is almost global. Or as they are now saying "This world has enough for every ones need; but not for their greed.

The real issue is not greed -- that has always been with us -- it is global overpopulation. I never understand why this issue is forever playing second fiddle to 'global warming' , 'environmental destruction' and all of the other overarching issues that it has largely created. It's true that here in Thailand we are terrible stewards of our natural heritage and have very little civic discipline. But it's the sheer numbers of us that are creating all of these problems. If we could get the numbers to go down instead of up you would see all of these problems begin to solve themselves overnight.

robblok · July 2, 2013

That just went in one ear and out the other.

Even after the last fish in the sea is caught, if there is still a single baht to be made somewhere they'll invent new ways to mess it all up even more.

When the last tree has died, and the last fish is gone, man will realise he cannot eat money................but don't just blame Thailand.... this is almost global. Or as they are now saying "This world has enough for every ones need; but not for their greed.

The real issue is not greed -- that has always been with us -- it is global overpopulation. I never understand why this issue is forever playing second fiddle to 'global warming' , 'environmental destruction' and all of the other overarching issues that it has largely created. It's true that here in Thailand we are terrible stewards of our natural heritage and have very little civic discipline. But it's the sheer numbers of us that are creating all of these problems. If we could get the numbers to go down instead of up you would see all of these problems begin to solve themselves overnight.

Anything short of a global pandemic killing off 50% of the population wont help. But that would also mean a total destruction of the economy. Its not that easy and nobody is going to tell people to take just 1 child like in China.

Unkomoncents · July 2, 2013

That just went in one ear and out the other.

Even after the last fish in the sea is caught, if there is still a single baht to be made somewhere they'll invent new ways to mess it all up even more.

When the last tree has died, and the last fish is gone, man will realise he cannot eat money................but don't just blame Thailand.... this is almost global. Or as they are now saying "This world has enough for every ones need; but not for their greed.

The real issue is not greed -- that has always been with us -- it is global overpopulation. I never understand why this issue is forever playing second fiddle to 'global warming' , 'environmental destruction' and all of the other overarching issues that it has largely created. It's true that here in Thailand we are terrible stewards of our natural heritage and have very little civic discipline. But it's the sheer numbers of us that are creating all of these problems. If we could get the numbers to go down instead of up you would see all of these problems begin to solve themselves overnight.

Well for one thing, when you start looking at who's most responsible, it becomes immediately clear that political correctness simply will not allow for an open discussion of the issue.You face being summarily branded a neo-Malthusian, which usually eliminates your chances of being taken seriously by others who are afraid of a similar associations and the word "racism" (as used by people who like to obviate criticism by disingenuously threatening to brand unorthodox thinkers [or just anyone who doesn't tow the party line] as racists). You've also taken on the full brunt of Evangelical Christianity, which preaches, literally, to be "fruitful and multiply". If you ever read the Nazi's theories on population, you know you're entering intellectual territory where emotion supersedes reason. And finally, its difficult to argue that population is at the heart of the world's resource problems when countries like the US consume many times what other countries (with far fewer resources) do. The US is a resource rich country. Even if there were global catastrophe, do you expect that Americans will share (this is not to get into the fine art of America-bashing, as that is hardly productive and China seems hell-bent on creating a consumer culture to match America's)?

tropo · July 2, 2013

Humans are not actually mammals.

Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment.

I disagree. I think you'll find there's many examples of how mammals have wiped out their environment and themselves.

Edited July 2, 2013 by tropo

Theoutsider · July 2, 2013

To your average Thai, the "future" means next week. Anything past that is beyond their comprehension. As a result, they are totally ignorant of the fact that their actions today determine their future.

BS

phuketsub · July 2, 2013

That just went in one ear and out the other.

Even after the last fish in the sea is caught, if there is still a single baht to be made somewhere they'll invent new ways to mess it all up even more.

When the last tree has died, and the last fish is gone, man will realise he cannot eat money................but don't just blame Thailand.... this is almost global. Or as they are now saying "This world has enough for every ones need; but not for their greed.

The real issue is not greed -- that has always been with us -- it is global overpopulation. I never understand why this issue is forever playing second fiddle to 'global warming' , 'environmental destruction' and all of the other overarching issues that it has largely created. It's true that here in Thailand we are terrible stewards of our natural heritage and have very little civic discipline. But it's the sheer numbers of us that are creating all of these problems. If we could get the numbers to go down instead of up you would see all of these problems begin to solve themselves overnight.

Well for one thing, when you start looking at who's most responsible, it becomes immediately clear that political correctness simply will not allow for an open discussion of the issue.You face being summarily branded a neo-Malthusian, which usually eliminates your chances of being taken seriously by others who are afraid of a similar associations and the word "racism" (as used by people who like to obviate criticism by disingenuously threatening to brand unorthodox thinkers [or just anyone who doesn't tow the party line] as racists). You've also taken on the full brunt of Evangelical Christianity, which preaches, literally, to be "fruitful and multiply". If you ever read the Nazi's theories on population, you know you're entering intellectual territory where emotion supersedes reason. And finally, its difficult to argue that population is at the heart of the world's resource problems when countries like the US consume many times what other countries (with far fewer resources) do. The US is a resource rich country. Even if there were global catastrophe, do you expect that Americans will share (this is not to get into the fine art of America-bashing, as that is hardly productive and China seems hell-bent on creating a consumer culture to match America's)?

I am not so worried about being labelled as such, and nobody seems to listen to my views on this issue anyway. If you have time listen to Adam Carolla's take:

The song is a classic;

I think Malthus would approve.

BwindiBoy · July 2, 2013

I'm surprised there's a single fish left alive within 2000 miles of the Thai coastline.

Whats its name ?

I think you'll find it's not strictly single, but divorced...following several affairs with Falang fish!!

BwindiBoy · July 2, 2013

To your average Thai, the "future" means next week. Anything past that is beyond their comprehension. As a result, they are totally ignorant of the fact that their actions today determine their future.

BS

I'm assuming BS in this situation means Brilliant Statement...for it is.

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