Australia to Send Refugees to Papua New Guinea

[folium]

You may find the analysis of the longer term implications of the PNG refugee policy at the URL below of interest.

http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-policy-forum/the-papua-new-guinea-solution-competitive-cruelty-and-strategic-folly/#axzz2bHZeg81T

Excellent link, well worth a read for anyone desiring more than just the usual myopic, knee-jerk nonsense.

[BookMan]

My telling him that the Oz navy will stop his ship and send him to PNG, he was quite unfazed. Firstly he had no idea what or where PNG is - a part of Australia was his guess . . . secondly he didn't believe me when I told him he wouldn't get either asylum nor refugee status and be locked locked up for a while during which his past would be checked.

I think this will be a problem for some time with a segment of people not having done their research on the current situation. It might take until word filters back from people who have been moved to PNG and also until enough word filters back that there is no appeal against this. (of course everything might change with a new government or a high court appeal)

[Sing_Sling]

While buying a banana pancake from this Pakistani guy in Cha Am a few days ago we got into a conversation and he asked me where I was from.

Australia, I replied, though I don't currently live nor work there.

He was quite happy about my country of origin and told me that he has plans to get on a ship to Oz and then claim either asylum or refugee status - he has some USD10.000 saved up.

My telling him that the Oz navy will stop his ship and send him to PNG, he was quite unfazed. Firstly he had no idea what or where PNG is - a part of Australia was his guess . . . secondly he didn't believe me when I told him he wouldn't get either asylum nor refugee status and be locked locked up for a while during which his past would be checked.

The annoying thing was that he seemed to think it was ok telling me he was going to swindle 'my' government to get into 'my' country . . . Odd people around

I know, it is so frustrating to listen to so many of the people in Thailand who are trying to figure out some way of swindling the Thai gov't into allowing them to stay.

I don't live in Thailand, nor do I have any wish to do so . . . but if you're frustrated by it then you have choices to make.

[northernjohn]

Bloomberg is just reporting another boat with 200 souls aboard has sunk of Java this morning. Only 25 survivors have been rescued so far. If this is true then, does the Australian Government have a secret policy on these boats we don't know about ? It sure seems to me that there are alot more of these boats sinking recently compared to a couple of years ago.

Well now there is a Jim Dandy conspiracy theroy.

Could it be that ricketyy old boats are all that are left to try to leave where ever in?

[BookMan]

Coalition planning to strip asylum seekers of right of appeal

The Federal Opposition says it would strip asylum seekers of the right to appeal against refugee assessments under a tough new policy designed to reduce the numbers of people being processed in Australia.

Announcing the policy in Melbourne this morning, Tony Abbott echoed John Howard and declared: "This is our country and we determine who comes here".

Under the plan, about 32,000 asylum seekers already in Australia on bridging visas or in other forms of detention will be denied residency, and those granted refugee status will be placed on an indefinite work for the dole scheme.

See Article Here

Edited August 16, 2013 by BookMan

[chooka]

Coalition planning to strip asylum seekers of right of appeal

The Federal Opposition says it would strip asylum seekers of the right to appeal against refugee assessments under a tough new policy designed to reduce the numbers of people being processed in Australia.

Announcing the policy in Melbourne this morning, Tony Abbott echoed John Howard and declared: "This is our country and we determine who comes here".

Under the plan, about 32,000 asylum seekers already in Australia on bridging visas or in other forms of detention will be denied residency, and those granted refugee status will be placed on an indefinite work for the dole scheme.

See Article Here

That is going to be 32K irate people. The whole thing is a key election issue and I think once a party is elected it will all go back to business as usual.

[simple1]

Coalition planning to strip asylum seekers of right of appeal

The Federal Opposition says it would strip asylum seekers of the right to appeal against refugee assessments under a tough new policy designed to reduce the numbers of people being processed in Australia.

Announcing the policy in Melbourne this morning, Tony Abbott echoed John Howard and declared: "This is our country and we determine who comes here".

Under the plan, about 32,000 asylum seekers already in Australia on bridging visas or in other forms of detention will be denied residency, and those granted refugee status will be placed on an indefinite work for the dole scheme.

See Article Here

I believe those granted bridging visas is because their are insufficient detention facilities and assessments were put on hold due to a large backlog. So what is he saying? that additional detention facilities will be built to house the 32,000 on bridging visas whilst they await deportation to their home countries or resettlement, that could take many years.

It seems to me that the outcome will be to drive those already on bridging visas underground, making the management of asylum seekers/refugees even more challenging for the government

[David48]

Coalition planning to strip asylum seekers of right of appeal

The Federal Opposition says it would strip asylum seekers of the right to appeal against refugee assessments under a tough new policy designed to reduce the numbers of people being processed in Australia.

Announcing the policy in Melbourne this morning, Tony Abbott echoed John Howard and declared: "This is our country and we determine who comes here".

Under the plan, about 32,000 asylum seekers already in Australia on bridging visas or in other forms of detention will be denied residency, and those granted refugee status will be placed on an indefinite work for the dole scheme.

See Article Here

From BookMan's referenced article above there is this quote from the Green's Hanson-Young: "This policy does nothing to stop people coming here by boat because it's only being inflicted on people who have already arrived. It is shameful, it is cruel."

True, it does only apply to those here ... but that is the point!

The boats won't stop coming when the Government starts to send them to PNG ... they won't stop coming when they watch an advertisement on TV.

They won't stop coming if they read a newspaper advertisement ... nor if Abbot 'turns back the boats'

They will stop coming when their relatives or friends in Australia start reporting back to them through Social Media and emails and Refugee Advocate sites that Australia is not longer the soft touch anymore and they have better options to try and go to another country.

That's when the boats will stop coming.

I said it before ... and happy to again.

I'm not anti refugee.

Part of the diversification provided by refugees have been a strong point to this Country of ours ... not the backbone ... but a strength.

On a per capita basis we are close to the world's average for accepting Refugees ... higher then the States but lower then Sweden.

Lets have a Refugee program where both sides benefit ... a chance given to an person seeking new hope and opportunity and someone who has waited patiently in line for that opportunity, in a Refugee Camp ... not the queue jumpers who arrive by boat .. or arrive by plane and overstay their visa.

OH ... don't get me started on New Zealand being a back-door to getting Australian Citizenship ...

.

[simple1]

Coalition planning to strip asylum seekers of right of appeal

The Federal Opposition says it would strip asylum seekers of the right to appeal against refugee assessments under a tough new policy designed to reduce the numbers of people being processed in Australia.

Announcing the policy in Melbourne this morning, Tony Abbott echoed John Howard and declared: "This is our country and we determine who comes here".

Under the plan, about 32,000 asylum seekers already in Australia on bridging visas or in other forms of detention will be denied residency, and those granted refugee status will be placed on an indefinite work for the dole scheme.

See Article Here

From BookMan's referenced article above there is this quote from the Green's Hanson-Young: "This policy does nothing to stop people coming here by boat because it's only being inflicted on people who have already arrived. It is shameful, it is cruel."

True, it does only apply to those here ... but that is the point!

The boats won't stop coming when the Government starts to send them to PNG ... they won't stop coming when they watch an advertisement on TV.

They won't stop coming if they read a newspaper advertisement ... nor if Abbot 'turns back the boats'

They will stop coming when their relatives or friends in Australia start reporting back to them through Social Media and emails and Refugee Advocate sites that Australia is not longer the soft touch anymore and they have better options to try and go to another country.

That's when the boats will stop coming.

I said it before ... and happy to again.

I'm not anti refugee.

Part of the diversification provided by refugees have been a strong point to this Country of ours ... not the backbone ... but a strength.

On a per capita basis we are close to the world's average for accepting Refugees ... higher then the States but lower then Sweden.

Lets have a Refugee program where both sides benefit ... a chance given to an person seeking new hope and opportunity and someone who has waited patiently in line for that opportunity, in a Refugee Camp ... not the queue jumpers who arrive by boat .. or arrive by plane and overstay their visa.

OH ... don't get me started on New Zealand being a back-door to getting Australian Citizenship ...

.

In absolute terms the top three resettlement countries in 2012 were America (66,300), Canada (9,600) and Australia (5,900). Refugees per capita of population, Australia ranks 69th.

The perception that there is a “queue” which onshore applicants are trying to evade is actually created by a policy choice which could easily be changed. No other country in the world links its onshore and offshore programs in this way.

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/myth-long.php#queue

I am a UK citizen by birth, but later I also obtained NZ citizenship by marriage. I utilised the NZ "back door" to obtain Australian citizenship

Edited August 16, 2013 by simple1

[samran]

Coalition planning to strip asylum seekers of right of appeal

The Federal Opposition says it would strip asylum seekers of the right to appeal against refugee assessments under a tough new policy designed to reduce the numbers of people being processed in Australia.

Announcing the policy in Melbourne this morning, Tony Abbott echoed John Howard and declared: "This is our country and we determine who comes here".

Under the plan, about 32,000 asylum seekers already in Australia on bridging visas or in other forms of detention will be denied residency, and those granted refugee status will be placed on an indefinite work for the dole scheme.

See Article Here

From BookMan's referenced article above there is this quote from the Green's Hanson-Young: "This policy does nothing to stop people coming here by boat because it's only being inflicted on people who have already arrived. It is shameful, it is cruel."

True, it does only apply to those here ... but that is the point!

The boats won't stop coming when the Government starts to send them to PNG ... they won't stop coming when they watch an advertisement on TV.

They won't stop coming if they read a newspaper advertisement ... nor if Abbot 'turns back the boats'

They will stop coming when their relatives or friends in Australia start reporting back to them through Social Media and emails and Refugee Advocate sites that Australia is not longer the soft touch anymore and they have better options to try and go to another country.

That's when the boats will stop coming.

I said it before ... and happy to again.

I'm not anti refugee.

Part of the diversification provided by refugees have been a strong point to this Country of ours ... not the backbone ... but a strength.

On a per capita basis we are close to the world's average for accepting Refugees ... higher then the States but lower then Sweden.

Lets have a Refugee program where both sides benefit ... a chance given to an person seeking new hope and opportunity and someone who has waited patiently in line for that opportunity, in a Refugee Camp ... not the queue jumpers who arrive by boat .. or arrive by plane and overstay their visa.

OH ... don't get me started on New Zealand being a back-door to getting Australian Citizenship ...

.

There hasn't been a back door via NZ to Australian citizenship since the 26th of Jan 2001 when the government stopped granting automatic PR to NZ'er upon arrival in OZ. However Australian's still get automatic PR when we rock up in Aotearoa. Says alot about Australia's approach to fairness and equity (disclaimer - my wife is a Kiwi).

I accept you aren't anywhere near anti-refugee (never thought otherwise). But all this 'stop the boats stuff' is just a siren song masked as an electoral slogan with each side trying to out-do each other in the "I'm a bastard" stakes.

I'm not going to fall for it and it is just another manfestation of the downward envy we've seen take over the Australian body politic in the past 15 years.

[Sing_Sling]

Coalition planning to strip asylum seekers of right of appeal

The Federal Opposition says it would strip asylum seekers of the right to appeal against refugee assessments under a tough new policy designed to reduce the numbers of people being processed in Australia.

Announcing the policy in Melbourne this morning, Tony Abbott echoed John Howard and declared: "This is our country and we determine who comes here".

Under the plan, about 32,000 asylum seekers already in Australia on bridging visas or in other forms of detention will be denied residency, and those granted refugee status will be placed on an indefinite work for the dole scheme.

See Article Here

From BookMan's referenced article above there is this quote from the Green's Hanson-Young: "This policy does nothing to stop people coming here by boat because it's only being inflicted on people who have already arrived. It is shameful, it is cruel."

True, it does only apply to those here ... but that is the point!

The boats won't stop coming when the Government starts to send them to PNG ... they won't stop coming when they watch an advertisement on TV.

They won't stop coming if they read a newspaper advertisement ... nor if Abbot 'turns back the boats'

They will stop coming when their relatives or friends in Australia start reporting back to them through Social Media and emails and Refugee Advocate sites that Australia is not longer the soft touch anymore and they have better options to try and go to another country.

That's when the boats will stop coming.

I said it before ... and happy to again.

I'm not anti refugee.

Part of the diversification provided by refugees have been a strong point to this Country of ours ... not the backbone ... but a strength.

On a per capita basis we are close to the world's average for accepting Refugees ... higher then the States but lower then Sweden.

Lets have a Refugee program where both sides benefit ... a chance given to an person seeking new hope and opportunity and someone who has waited patiently in line for that opportunity, in a Refugee Camp ... not the queue jumpers who arrive by boat .. or arrive by plane and overstay their visa.

OH ... don't get me started on New Zealand being a back-door to getting Australian Citizenship ...

.

There hasn't been a back door via NZ to Australian citizenship since the 26th of Jan 2001 when the government stopped granting automatic PR to NZ'er upon arrival in OZ. However Australian's still get automatic PR when we rock up in Aotearoa. Says alot about Australia's approach to fairness and equity (disclaimer - my wife is a Kiwi).

I accept you aren't anywhere near anti-refugee (never thought otherwise). But all this 'stop the boats stuff' is just a siren song masked as an electoral slogan with each side trying to out-do each other in the "I'm a bastard" stakes.

I'm not going to fall for it and it is just another manfestation of the downward envy we've seen take over the Australian body politic in the past 15 years.

Ah, I wasn't aware of the auto-PR we get in NZ . . . surely there are qualifiers? My wife's a Kiwi, too . . . and lists Australia as one of the last places she'd like to live.

As for Immigration/foreigners, it's been a hotbed of arrogance, bigotry, racism, jingoism, xenophobia etc... for Australians for centuries - why we can't just stand up and say that Australia has always been a nation of racists is beyond me. Instead we try to hide behind this sleek Sydney-liberal veneer (disclaimer here, I'm a Sydney-boy) and talk about how many etnicities we can list wit our choice of restaurants.

Politics is no different, be it the white Australia policy, Islander slave-labour in Qld, anti-Asian etc . . .

Immigration is a topic that needs to be attacked from the ground up, we're not the only country to have illegal immigrants entering our borders - we should handle it in a far more mature manner than we have been

[samran]

Coalition planning to strip asylum seekers of right of appeal

The Federal Opposition says it would strip asylum seekers of the right to appeal against refugee assessments under a tough new policy designed to reduce the numbers of people being processed in Australia.

Announcing the policy in Melbourne this morning, Tony Abbott echoed John Howard and declared: "This is our country and we determine who comes here".

Under the plan, about 32,000 asylum seekers already in Australia on bridging visas or in other forms of detention will be denied residency, and those granted refugee status will be placed on an indefinite work for the dole scheme.

See Article Here

From BookMan's referenced article above there is this quote from the Green's Hanson-Young: "This policy does nothing to stop people coming here by boat because it's only being inflicted on people who have already arrived. It is shameful, it is cruel."

True, it does only apply to those here ... but that is the point!

The boats won't stop coming when the Government starts to send them to PNG ... they won't stop coming when they watch an advertisement on TV.

They won't stop coming if they read a newspaper advertisement ... nor if Abbot 'turns back the boats'

They will stop coming when their relatives or friends in Australia start reporting back to them through Social Media and emails and Refugee Advocate sites that Australia is not longer the soft touch anymore and they have better options to try and go to another country.

That's when the boats will stop coming.

I said it before ... and happy to again.

I'm not anti refugee.

Part of the diversification provided by refugees have been a strong point to this Country of ours ... not the backbone ... but a strength.

On a per capita basis we are close to the world's average for accepting Refugees ... higher then the States but lower then Sweden.

Lets have a Refugee program where both sides benefit ... a chance given to an person seeking new hope and opportunity and someone who has waited patiently in line for that opportunity, in a Refugee Camp ... not the queue jumpers who arrive by boat .. or arrive by plane and overstay their visa.

OH ... don't get me started on New Zealand being a back-door to getting Australian Citizenship ...

.

There hasn't been a back door via NZ to Australian citizenship since the 26th of Jan 2001 when the government stopped granting automatic PR to NZ'er upon arrival in OZ. However Australian's still get automatic PR when we rock up in Aotearoa. Says alot about Australia's approach to fairness and equity (disclaimer - my wife is a Kiwi).

I accept you aren't anywhere near anti-refugee (never thought otherwise). But all this 'stop the boats stuff' is just a siren song masked as an electoral slogan with each side trying to out-do each other in the "I'm a bastard" stakes.

I'm not going to fall for it and it is just another manfestation of the downward envy we've seen take over the Australian body politic in the past 15 years.

Ah, I wasn't aware of the auto-PR we get in NZ . . . surely there are qualifiers? My wife's a Kiwi, too . . . and lists Australia as one of the last places she'd like to live.

As for Immigration/foreigners, it's been a hotbed of arrogance, bigotry, racism, jingoism, xenophobia etc... for Australians for centuries - why we can't just stand up and say that Australia has always been a nation of racists is beyond me. Instead we try to hide behind this sleek Sydney-liberal veneer (disclaimer here, I'm a Sydney-boy) and talk about how many etnicities we can list wit our choice of restaurants.

Politics is no different, be it the white Australia policy, Islander slave-labour in Qld, anti-Asian etc . . .

Immigration is a topic that needs to be attacked from the ground up, we're not the only country to have illegal immigrants entering our borders - we should handle it in a far more mature manner than we have been

if only we could....I'm with you there.

I've got no problem with saying Australia is full of bogans. Being, shall we say, a person of colour, I'm not so sure I'd call Australian's racist, but we have a massive fear of the unknown...untill it is known and we've worked it all out, and for the most part we are all okay with each other. Hence, each new wave of migrants are the whipping boy, with the hysteria we see here directed previously to others.

Then, partly due to the latte set, and partly due to food, and then we start working with them, then all of a sudden as happend in the last century Patrick, Luigi, Con, Trinh, and Xu were all 'okay' cause we got to know them. Pretty soon, Achmed and Abdulla will be 'okay' as well (and when one of them hits a century against the Pom's they'll be 'Aussie Achmed' cause we'll happily claim them if they can play sport), as by then we'll have moved on to our next whipping boys and girls, the African refugee's who REALLY stand out and are going to be easy fodder for ACA and Today tonight.

As for NZ...yep, there is a thing called the Trans Tasman travel arrangements which allow for easy flow of peoples across the ditch, along side the agreements harmonisation of every standard under the sun. As long as you are of 'good character' you get one from my understanding. There are tecnicalities, but my understanding is that if you land in NZ, you are automatically on the path to citizenship (while obtaining all the benefits of PR), whereas a NZ'er landing in Australia, gets automatic work rights and indefinete leave to stay, but is restricted from access to certain social services and have to qualify for PR in their own right, before moving onto citizenship.

http://www.dol.govt.nz/immigration/knowledgebase/item/1197

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/index.htm

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/17nz.htm

Edited August 16, 2013 by samran

[Sing_Sling]

Ah, I wasn't aware of the auto-PR we get in NZ . . . surely there are qualifiers? My wife's a Kiwi, too . . . and lists Australia as one of the last places she'd like to live.

As for Immigration/foreigners, it's been a hotbed of arrogance, bigotry, racism, jingoism, xenophobia etc... for Australians for centuries - why we can't just stand up and say that Australia has always been a nation of racists is beyond me. Instead we try to hide behind this sleek Sydney-liberal veneer (disclaimer here, I'm a Sydney-boy) and talk about how many etnicities we can list wit our choice of restaurants.

Politics is no different, be it the white Australia policy, Islander slave-labour in Qld, anti-Asian etc . . .

Immigration is a topic that needs to be attacked from the ground up, we're not the only country to have illegal immigrants entering our borders - we should handle it in a far more mature manner than we have been

if only we could....I'm with you there.

I've got no problem with saying Australia is full of bogans. Being, shall we say, a person of colour, I'm not so sure I'd call Australian's racist, but we have a massive fear of the unknown...untill it is known and we've worked it all out, and for the most part we are all okay with each other. Hence, each new wave of migrants are the whipping boy, with the hysteria we see here directed previously to others.

Then, partly due to the latte set, and partly due to food, and then we start working with them, then all of a sudden as happend in the last century Patrick, Luigi, Con, Trinh, and Xu were all 'okay' cause we got to know them. Pretty soon, Achmed and Abdulla will be 'okay' as well (and when one of them hits a century against the Pom's they'll be 'Aussie Achmed' cause we'll happily claim them if they can play sport), as by then we'll have moved on to our next whipping boys and girls, the African refugee's who REALLY stand out and are going to be easy fodder for ACA and Today tonight.

As for NZ...yep, there is a thing called the Trans Tasman travel arrangements which allow for easy flow of peoples across the ditch, along side the agreements harmonisation of every standard under the sun. As long as you are of 'good character' you get one from my understanding. There are tecnicalities, but my understanding is that if you land in NZ, you are automatically on the path to citizenship (while obtaining all the benefits of PR), whereas a NZ'er landing in Australia, gets automatic work rights and indefinete leave to stay, but is restricted from access to certain social services and have to qualify for PR in their own right, before moving onto citizenship.

http://www.dol.govt.nz/immigration/knowledgebase/item/1197

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/index.htm

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/17nz.htm

Thank you for that . . . as it looks like we'll end up in NZ eventually when the younger girls are in their early teens and need to fit into the last few years of a school where they'll stay. They are currently in international schools under the Cambridge system to prepare them for that.

On the immigrant issue I'm not as optimistic as you are. I'm German/French stock and never had an issue as I look like what an Aussie 'should' look like, but I went to school (and Uni) in Sydney's eastern suburbs, where the student body was made up mostly of Skippys and Jews - anyone else copped it.

Sure the Italians and Greeks have assimilated and the odd '<deleted>' remark is said in jest, but Asians still have a difficult time until they inter-marry with whitey . . . which happens quite frequently and leads to a nice mish-mash in society.

Muslims are still - and will remain - a problem issue simply due to their religion which requires non-Muslims to convert . . . I can't/don't see many catholic girls rushing to adopt the name Fatimah or a Greek-Aussie wearing a skull-cap because he fell in love with Rashida at a Back-Hair-Braiding-Class . (Both examples said in jest, please )

We can't come to terms with our past let alone our present and the future scares the average Aussie shi!less - when he has the clarity to look at it.

Aborogines anyone? Haven't even solved that one yet aside from throwing money and religion at them.

Ah, countless examples . . .

It would be nice . . . but we aren't there by a long shot and these horrible boat-people are stoking the fires of xenophobia yet again especially because they include 'darkies' from all over the place

[simple1]

Sing_Sling: You're correct on the skin colour issue, but their are conservative Christian and Orthodox Jewish families who will not permit the marriage of their children outside their faith. As you know a good example is the Orthodox Jewish community in the eastern suburbs of Sydney; it's not exclusively a Muslim issue.

Edited August 16, 2013 by simple1

[kangeroo]

After visiting England ,Germany and a lot of other country's if Australia doesn't do something about the refugees situation we will all end up the same as they are .

Cheers

[BookMan]

After visiting England ,Germany and a lot of other country's if Australia doesn't do something about the refugees situation we will all end up the same as they are .

Cheers

Drinking a lot of beer like Germany and England you mean? Too late for that.

[Sing_Sling]

Sing_Sling: You're correct on the skin colour issue, but their are conservative Christian and Orthodox Jewish families who will not permit the marriage of their children outside their faith. As you know a good example is the Orthodox Jewish community in the eastern suburbs of Sydney; it's not exclusively a Muslim issue.

You're quite right, but I'm an eastern Suburbs boy (parents' house just off Parsley Bay, went to Cranbrook then UNSW) . . . no orthodox Jews there . . . but the orthodox are so small in numbers as to not count and the secular Jews are inter-marrying at the rate of knots . . . with no conversions.

Fundie Christians? I'm sure they exist but I haven't met any

It isn't solely a Muslim issue, that's true - but seeing as they live in enclaves, not to call them ghettos, and the majority is orthodox in their beliefs . . . well, it does make assimilation more difficult for them

After visiting England ,Germany and a lot of other country's if Australia doesn't do something about the refugees situation we will all end up the same as they are .

Cheers

What is worse about Germany's refugee 'problem' than Australia's?

Edited August 16, 2013 by Sing_Sling

[BookMan]

Immigration is a topic that needs to be attacked from the ground up, we're not the only country to have illegal immigrants entering our borders - we should handle it in a far more mature manner than we have been

Any policy regarding immigration made during an election campaign will have the scent of populism...or pandering to the marginal electorates. Either way, even if any individual policy has some merits , it will be seen by many as a way to buy some votes.

The political parties have a few years to get their policies in order but choose not to announce anything until the election cycle begins.

Have a look at the Greens website regarding their policies. You might not agree with them but they are all there in black and white and reasonable detail

[simple1]

Sing_Sling: You're correct on the skin colour issue, but their are conservative Christian and Orthodox Jewish families who will not permit the marriage of their children outside their faith. As you know a good example is the Orthodox Jewish community in the eastern suburbs of Sydney; it's not exclusively a Muslim issue.

You're quite right, but I'm an eastern Suburbs boy (parents' house just off Parsley Bay, went to Cranbrook then UNSW) . . . no orthodox Jews there . . . but the orthodox are so small in numbers as to not count and the secular Jews are inter-marrying at the rate of knots . . . with no conversions.

Fundie Christians? I'm sure they exist but I haven't met any

It isn't solely a Muslim issue, that's true - but seeing as they live in enclaves, not to call them ghettos, and the majority is orthodox in their beliefs . . . well, it does make assimilation more difficult for them

My stepson is Muslim & he has completely integrated into Australian society; much to my concern I've been told he drinks like a fish, thankfully he has a full time job. I'll see what he says for himself when we go back next year

Edited August 16, 2013 by simple1

[tw25rw]

I've got no problem with saying Australia is full of bogans. Being, shall we say, a person of colour, I'm not so sure I'd call Australian's racist, but we have a massive fear of the unknown...untill it is known and we've worked it all out, and for the most part we are all okay with each other. Hence, each new wave of migrants are the whipping boy, with the hysteria we see here directed previously to others.

Fear of the unknown is true. Especially in the caee of the Vietnamese. In the case of muslim large scale immigration, it's more a fear of the known.

Then, partly due to the latte set, and partly due to food, and then we start working with them, then all of a sudden as happend in the last century Patrick, Luigi, Con, Trinh, and Xu were all 'okay' cause we got to know them. Pretty soon, Achmed and Abdulla will be 'okay' as well (and when one of them hits a century against the Pom's they'll be 'Aussie Achmed' cause we'll happily claim them if they can play sport), as by then we'll have moved on to our next whipping boys and girls, the African refugee's who REALLY stand out and are going to be easy fodder for ACA and Today tonight.

Individually, they can be fine. But as for being on the receiving end of a muslim diaspora, assisted by other muslims who want to propagate their religion in the west, no thanks.

[tw25rw]

While buying a banana pancake from this Pakistani guy in Cha Am a few days ago we got into a conversation and he asked me where I was from.

Australia, I replied, though I don't currently live nor work there.

He was quite happy about my country of origin and told me that he has plans to get on a ship to Oz and then claim either asylum or refugee status - he has some USD10.000 saved up.

My telling him that the Oz navy will stop his ship and send him to PNG, he was quite unfazed. Firstly he had no idea what or where PNG is - a part of Australia was his guess . . . secondly he didn't believe me when I told him he wouldn't get either asylum nor refugee status and be locked locked up for a while during which his past would be checked.

The annoying thing was that he seemed to think it was ok telling me he was going to swindle 'my' government to get into 'my' country . . . Odd people around

When he squanders his savings and ends up back at square one, he won't be able to say he wasn't warned.

[BookMan]

While buying a banana pancake from this Pakistani guy in Cha Am a few days ago we got into a conversation and he asked me where I was from.

Australia, I replied, though I don't currently live nor work there.

He was quite happy about my country of origin and told me that he has plans to get on a ship to Oz and then claim either asylum or refugee status - he has some USD10.000 saved up.

My telling him that the Oz navy will stop his ship and send him to PNG, he was quite unfazed. Firstly he had no idea what or where PNG is - a part of Australia was his guess . . . secondly he didn't believe me when I told him he wouldn't get either asylum nor refugee status and be locked locked up for a while during which his past would be checked.

The annoying thing was that he seemed to think it was ok telling me he was going to swindle 'my' government to get into 'my' country . . . Odd people around

When he squanders his savings and ends up back at square one, he won't be able to say he wasn't warned.

Look at it from his point of view. A customer for his pancake says he can't go to Australia, that he won't be accepted, he will be shipped off to another country, or denied permanent residency (depending on the government after Sep 7 I imagine.)

On the other hand, he knows of many people that have made the trip by boat and are in the process of getting residency , or have got residency. His friends all tell him it will be okay. The smugglers all tell him it will be okay.

Who is he going to believe?

[chooka]

PNG denies Labor's refugee claims

6:57am August 17, 2013

Papua New Guinea has denied two key elements of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's tough new asylum-seeker policy - that PNG will settle those deemed to be refugees and that none will end up in Australia.

PNG Prime Minister Peter O'Neill has told Fairfax Media he has not agreed to settle all asylum seekers who are found to be refugees after processing on Manus Island.

And he says Australia will need to take back a share of them.

"There is no agreement that all genuine refugees will be settled in PNG," he said.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/08/17/07/00/png-denies-labor-s-refugee-claims

Edited August 17, 2013 by chooka

[samran]

I've got no problem with saying Australia is full of bogans. Being, shall we say, a person of colour, I'm not so sure I'd call Australian's racist, but we have a massive fear of the unknown...untill it is known and we've worked it all out, and for the most part we are all okay with each other. Hence, each new wave of migrants are the whipping boy, with the hysteria we see here directed previously to others.

Fear of the unknown is true. Especially in the caee of the Vietnamese. In the case of muslim large scale immigration, it's more a fear of the known.

Then, partly due to the latte set, and partly due to food, and then we start working with them, then all of a sudden as happend in the last century Patrick, Luigi, Con, Trinh, and Xu were all 'okay' cause we got to know them. Pretty soon, Achmed and Abdulla will be 'okay' as well (and when one of them hits a century against the Pom's they'll be 'Aussie Achmed' cause we'll happily claim them if they can play sport), as by then we'll have moved on to our next whipping boys and girls, the African refugee's who REALLY stand out and are going to be easy fodder for ACA and Today tonight.

Individually, they can be fine. But as for being on the receiving end of a muslim diaspora, assisted by other muslims who want to propagate their religion in the west, no thanks.

Every religion has a message to spread , even the pope and the Catholic Church have recent come out and said the church need to embrace more evangelistic approach. We are about to elect a strict catholic as PM, who is close to a conservative cardinal. Do we stop allowing obsevant Catholics to migrate? Do we stop the church from bringing priests in from the Phillipines and Africa given the church can't get enough priests in Australia.

And yes, the ole 'fear of the known' debating trick. Yep, according to opponents of Vietnamese migrants and boat people, we'd be importing communists, and the end of the Australian way of life was nigh.

Same same, but different. These argument to of yours are all tip and no iceberg.

[David48]

After visiting England ,Germany and a lot of other country's if Australia doesn't do something about the refugees situation we will all end up the same as they are .

Cheers

What is worse about Germany's refugee 'problem' than Australia's?

While this isn't directly related to the OP and the PNG issue ... do does address the issue indirectly but it can bee seen as a counter point to not having the Refugees resettled in PNG.

Germany ... a case study.

Turks in Germany refers to persons living in Germany originating from Turkey including non-ethnic Turks (but does not include ethnic Turks from outside Turkey). German Turks form the largest ethnic minority. Estimates range between 2.5–2.7 million, and 3.5 million and more than 4 million Turks and German citizens with part or full Turkish ancestry in Germany, forming about 4-5% of Germany's total population.

They came, invited, welcomed as 'Gastarbeiter' Guest Worker after the war and many stayed and then bought their families.

In 2010, Chancellor Angela Merkel said that multiculturalism in Germany had "failed utterly".

The German leader said it had been an illusion to think that Germans and foreign workers could "live happily side by side". ... the German leader said (in reference to guest workers) "At the start of the 60s we invited the guest-workers to Germany.

We kidded ourselves for a while that they wouldn't stay, that one day they'd go home.

That isn't what happened.

And of course the tendency was to say: let's be 'multikulti' and live next to each other and enjoy being together, [but] this concept has failed, failed utterly."

(Interestingly, in pure PC mode she went onto to say ... ) In the same speech, she stressed that immigrants were welcome in Germany and that Islam was a part of the nation's modern-day culture.

Adapted from Wiki

The Red Cross bans Christmas in the UK!

... The war on Christmas is alive and well in the United Kingdom. Christmas has been banned by the Red Cross in over 400 of its stores. The reason being given is that the trappings of Christmas might offend Muslims.

Belgian replace the traditional Christmas Tree .. "

Bianca Debaets, a Brussels councillor from the Christian Democratic and Flemish party, said she believed a "misplaced argument" over religious sensitivities had moved Brussels to put up the light sculpture.

"For a lot of people who are not Christians, the tree there is offensive to them," she told reporters."

so ... to be purely PC ... the Belgians replaced it with ...

Pity the poor politician who trys to ban Christmas in my area because he/she didn't wish to offend the Muslims

So, bringing this back to the current issue, the resettlement of the Refugees to PNG will prove difficult for the Refugees will have to adopt the customs of their adopted country ... rather then try and change the adoptive country to their old lifestyle.

A diversified Refugee stream is OK ... but many times, when there is a clash of Cultures, it doesn't bode well for either side.

I am not trying to be raciest, but to to point to the differences when races and cultures clash ideologically.

.

[samran]

It's a dodgy argument. People made that point in the past too about differnt waves of migration, most famously by John Howard on Asian immigration in 1988. They were proven wrong each time.

And of course the guest worker scheme doesn't work. It creates and 'us and them' scenario. No real opportunity to blend in, as you are always defined as an outsider.

Australia briefly considered a guest worker scheme in the mid 2000's to help with the labour shortage caused by the mining boom. One of the biggest opponents to the concept was Peter Costello, who made the point that if you bring someone to Australia to work and build up the place, unless you then reciprocate by saying you too can become part of the Asutralian community (which is done by PR and paths to citizenship) these guest workers will be incentivied to stay in their own communities, cause Australia is effectively saying 'you don't belong here'. He pointed to the German example as a case study of why you should never have a guest worker programme.

I agree with Peter Costello on that matter, and he is hardly one who could be described as anything but a high priest of conservative politics.

Edited August 17, 2013 by samran

[samran]

The Red Cross bans Christmas in the UK!

... The war on Christmas is alive and well in the United Kingdom. Christmas has been banned by the Red Cross in over 400 of its stores. The reason being given is that the trappings of Christmas might offend Muslims.

Belgian replace the traditional Christmas Tree .. "

Bianca Debaets, a Brussels councillor from the Christian Democratic and Flemish party, said she believed a "misplaced argument" over religious sensitivities had moved Brussels to put up the light sculpture.

"For a lot of people who are not Christians, the tree there is offensive to them," she told reporters."

so ... to be purely PC ... the Belgians replaced it with ...

Pity the poor politician who trys to ban Christmas in my area because he/she didn't wish to offend the Muslims

So, bringing this back to the current issue, the resettlement of the Refugees to PNG will prove difficult for the Refugees will have to adopt the customs of their adopted country ... rather then try and change the adoptive country to their old lifestyle.

A diversified Refugee stream is OK ... but many times, when there is a clash of Cultures, it doesn't bode well for either side.

I am not trying to be raciest, but to to point to the differences when races and cultures clash ideologically.

.

Can't believe you've fallen for the myth that has been propagated by right wing nut bag websites and tabloids. Check out the response by the head of the Red Cross at the time who outright denied it. It is a beat up if I've ever heard one.

[David48]

The Red Cross bans Christmas in the UK!

... The war on Christmas is alive and well in the United Kingdom. Christmas has been banned by the Red Cross in over 400 of its stores. The reason being given is that the trappings of Christmas might offend Muslims.

.

Can't believe you've fallen for the myth that has been propagated by right wing nut bag websites and tabloids. Check out the response by the head of the Red Cross at the time who outright denied it. It is a beat up if I've ever heard one.

I have an open mind.

Happy to ...

Link?

EDITED to add, and apologies as it's the Daily Mail, but they are quoting ...

The Red Cross bans Christmas

by STEVE DOUGHTY, Daily Mail

Last updated at 10:20:01 21st December 2002

Christmas has been banned by the Red Cross from its 430 fund-raising shops.

Staff have been ordered to take down decorations and to remove any other signs of the Christian festival because they could offend Moslems.

The charity's politically-correct move triggered an avalanche of criticism and mockery last night - from Christians and Moslems.

Christine Banks, a volunteer at a Red Cross shop in New Romney, Kent, said: 'We put up a nativity scene in the window and were told to take it out. It seems we can't have anything that means Christmas. We're allowed to have some tinsel but that's it.

'When we send cards they have to say season's greetings or best wishes. They must not be linked directly to Christmas.

'When we asked we were told it is because we must not upset Moslems.'

Mrs Banks added: ' We have been instructed that we can't say anything about Christmas and we certainly can't have a Christmas tree.

The-Red-Cross-bans-Christmas

Edited August 17, 2013 by David48

[BookMan]

The Red Cross bans Christmas in the UK!

... The war on Christmas is alive and well in the United Kingdom. Christmas has been banned by the Red Cross in over 400 of its stores. The reason being given is that the trappings of Christmas might offend Muslims.

.

Can't believe you've fallen for the myth that has been propagated by right wing nut bag websites and tabloids. Check out the response by the head of the Red Cross at the time who outright denied it. It is a beat up if I've ever heard one.

I have an open mind.

Happy to ...

Link?

EDITED to add, and apologies as it's the Daily Mail, but they are quoting ...

The Red Cross bans Christmas

by STEVE DOUGHTY, Daily Mail

Last updated at 10:20:01 21st December 2002

Christmas has been banned by the Red Cross from its 430 fund-raising shops.

Staff have been ordered to take down decorations and to remove any other signs of the Christian festival because they could offend Moslems.

The charity's politically-correct move triggered an avalanche of criticism and mockery last night - from Christians and Moslems.

Christine Banks, a volunteer at a Red Cross shop in New Romney, Kent, said: 'We put up a nativity scene in the window and were told to take it out. It seems we can't have anything that means Christmas. We're allowed to have some tinsel but that's it.

'When we send cards they have to say season's greetings or best wishes. They must not be linked directly to Christmas.

'When we asked we were told it is because we must not upset Moslems.'

Mrs Banks added: ' We have been instructed that we can't say anything about Christmas and we certainly can't have a Christmas tree.

The-Red-Cross-bans-Christmas

Samran is correct there mate. It was debunked a long while back.

HOW THE RED CROSS DIDN’T BAN CHRISTMAS

As the festive season approaches, this story is once again being circulated through social media and on various other websites. We would write something new, but the situation is really no different from last year, except that the story is now clearly dated 2002 on the Daily Mail’s website.

To reiterate: this story is now nine years old. Many of our shops and offices are decked out in Christmas decorations, and our online Christmas gift shop is open for business. We have in no way “banned Christmas” nor have we discussed doing so. We apologise for any upset or distress caused to supporters who have come across these allegations, but they are simply not accurate and we have gone to some lengths to ensure the correct information is easily available.

It is true that we are not a political or religious organisation, for the reasons described in the post below relating to the Red Cross’ unique role and neutrality, which help us save lives all over the world. This has been the case since the British Red Cross was established in 1870. But nor are we an atheistic or humanist organisation – people who work and volunteer for us represent all faiths and none and we have always enthusiastically fostered a culture of mutual respect on such matters.

We would like to once again wish all our supporters in advance a merry Christmas and a happy new year!

http://blogs.redcross.org.uk/uk/2010/12/how-the-red-cross-didnt-steal-christmas/

Edited August 17, 2013 by BookMan

[simple1]

@david48: Off topic but I have always found it odd, if true, that some institutions ban Christian symbols. Decision makers should note the following & not give in to small pressure groups - just silliness.

The Koran teaches respect for "people of the book" and incorporates Jewish and Christian prophets. Also incorporates traditional stories such as Noah's Ark & Archangel Gabriel

Edited August 17, 2013 by simple1