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Syria 'chemical attack': Distressing footage under analysis

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Some form of gas may have been used - and there have been other photos of supposed delivery missiles/shells, published by the same rebel faction(s). I have not been able to identify any markings on these artifacts and do not know enough about them to be able to identify the source of manufacture.

M14 (variant) surface to surface missile according to the UN inspectors. I'm not sure where Syria stands at the moment because they keep chopping and changing. Assad gave an interview a short while back to (CNN?) where he stated that it was only an alleged chemical incident but the government had already admitted an incident had taken place and did not deny that the chemical signature was from their own stock. Nothing has been said about any missing stock as yet but perhaps the rebels managed to recreate the chemical signature in a bathtub. Perhaps they also managed to cobble together (from washing machines and such like) an M14 missile along with the platform to launch it from?

Russia has been kind enough to furnish the Assad dictatorship with the ability to massacre as many people as it likes from now on so long as they don't use chemical weapons. What will happen in real life is that they will give them all up except for some they have hidden in the pantry which they can then claim were used by the rebels. If it were not so very sad it would be comical.

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Remember that in the Tokyo Metro the Sarin was ready-prepared and the attackers just poured it out on the floor of the Metro carriages. They died along with their victims. The same could happen with Jihadists.

I read a book onn the attack a few years ago. If I remember correctly. no attackers got sick or died. They put the Sarin liquid in plastic bags and punctured them with umbrella tips and walked away.

Remember that in the Tokyo Metro the Sarin was ready-prepared and the attackers just poured it out on the floor of the Metro carriages. They died along with their victims. The same could happen with Jihadists.

I read a book onn the attack a few years ago. If I remember correctly. no attackers got sick or died. They put the Sarin liquid in plastic bags and punctured them with umbrella tips and walked away.

You could be right. I didn't refer back to any contemporaneous reports, just relied on memory.

I could have been mixing it up with the attack on the London Metro, which was with HE bombs.

M14 (variant) surface to surface missile according to the UN inspectors.

This is a multiple use missile.

It can be hand launched like a Stinger or launched from various platforms such as tanks and helicopters. The original is Russian made, but could be copied by any properly set-up factory. A step up from the Palestinian rockets, but not by much.

Who would dare to impugn the honesty of the world renoun Cleveland Challenger? giggle.gif

It claims to be based on some report by Lord Goldstone.

Bound to be biased reporting.

I disagree. Russia and Iran think Obama is very weak and they've been taking advantage. Time to STOP that.

let's demonstrate in Walking Street with signs "STOP'EM OBAMA!" whistling.gif

The message -- the American big stick can still be stuck when it is deserved.

presently the stick is indeed stuck and the jury is still out to decide who deserves what tongue.png

A piece from the BEEB

US Secretary of State John Kerry says the UN Security Council must "be prepared" to agree a binding resolution on Syria's chemical weapons.

He said a "definitive" UN report had proven that the Syrian government was behind a deadly attack in August.

Not true, what has been shown to date is that it is highly unlikely the so called rebels are to blame but that does not mean that the Syrian regime is therefore to blame. Those of a religious ilk should turn off now as the following will likely cause brain ache.

Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

For any thinking person the Syrian regime's repeated acceptance and denial of an attack even taking place adds volumes. Putin's Russian regime has managed to stave off serious action by demanding the Syrian regime destroy their chemical weapons which supposedly they have not use nor lost to the rebels. Why bother? Stalling tactics that all but the most myopic can see.

In addition and linked to from the same article...

The Syrian conflict has reached a stalemate and President Bashar al-Assad's government will call for a ceasefire at a long-delayed conference in Geneva on the state's future, the country's deputy prime minister has said in an interview with the Guardian.

Speaking on behalf of the government, Qadri Jamil said that neither side was strong enough to win the conflict, which has lasted two years and caused the death of more than 100,000 people. Jamil, who is in charge of country's finances, also said that the Syrian economy had suffered catastrophic losses.

"Neither the armed opposition nor the regime is capable of defeating the other side," he said. "This zero balance of forces will not change for a while."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/19/syrian-government-civil-war-stalemate

No, the Syrian regime had to resort to chemical weapons in order to stop the people of Syria taking control of their own state. Unless a ceasefire 'happens' the Syrian regime will fail and the said regime knows that.

After Assad is deposed I think we will see elections resulting in another Egypt where Morsi was found to be not quite the man they were looking for and ousted from power.

  • 2 weeks later...

A piece from the BEEB

US Secretary of State John Kerry says the UN Security Council must "be prepared" to agree a binding resolution on Syria's chemical weapons.

He said a "definitive" UN report had proven that the Syrian government was behind a deadly attack in August.

Not true, what has been shown to date is that it is highly unlikely the so called rebels are to blame but that does not mean that the Syrian regime is therefore to blame. Those of a religious ilk should turn off now as the following will likely cause brain ache.

Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

For any thinking person the Syrian regime's repeated acceptance and denial of an attack even taking place adds volumes. Putin's Russian regime has managed to stave off serious action by demanding the Syrian regime destroy their chemical weapons which supposedly they have not use nor lost to the rebels. Why bother? Stalling tactics that all but the most myopic can see.

In addition and linked to from the same article...

The Syrian conflict has reached a stalemate and President Bashar al-Assad's government will call for a ceasefire at a long-delayed conference in Geneva on the state's future, the country's deputy prime minister has said in an interview with the Guardian.

Speaking on behalf of the government, Qadri Jamil said that neither side was strong enough to win the conflict, which has lasted two years and caused the death of more than 100,000 people. Jamil, who is in charge of country's finances, also said that the Syrian economy had suffered catastrophic losses.

"Neither the armed opposition nor the regime is capable of defeating the other side," he said. "This zero balance of forces will not change for a while."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/19/syrian-government-civil-war-stalemate

No, the Syrian regime had to resort to chemical weapons in order to stop the people of Syria taking control of their own state. Unless a ceasefire 'happens' the Syrian regime will fail and the said regime knows that.

After Assad is deposed I think we will see elections resulting in another Egypt where Morsi was found to be not quite the man they were looking for and ousted from power.

So not happy with being bailed out by Russia, the Assad dictatorship wishes to hide behind Putin's Russian dictatorship's apron and pull tongues at people at the UN.

Speaking to the UN in New York, Walid Muallem accused "well-known" countries of backing "terrorists" fighting the Syrian government and of threatening "blatant military aggression outside the mandate of the Security Council".

He said Syria had "repeatedly embraced" a political solution, but added that outside states - which he accused of supplying chemical weapons to Syrian rebels - had to abide by their commitments as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24338060

No, as we say in London 'every cxxx and his mother' knows that the chemical signature of the weapons used are from the Syrian regime's stockpile. Member HB suggested Sarin could have been made in a bathtub which is true, no question about it. That is not to say it could have literally been made in a bathtub but that it could be made at very high risk in a place and using bad equipment. However, they could NOT have made it with the same chemical signature. Now.... suddenly.... outside 'agencies' made it! Well my dumb as xxxx Syrian regime, the precursors used to make the Sarin will leave an indelible signature contained within the final product.

All this after a supposed agreement <deleted>. Start being honest.

It's hard to know where to start and it is not helped by me laughing so very very much.

Russia says it believes the gas attack in Damascus on 21 August which left hundreds of people dead, was a "provocation" by Syrian rebels. Last week Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov gave his US counterpart John Kerry what he said was evidence to back up this claim. It includes an investigation by a Catholic nun living in Syria.

[...]

But she has accused the rebels of committing atrocities before.

It seems her motivation may be fear - that the Syrian government will eventually be overthrown by militant Islamist groups, jeopardising the future of the minority Christian community in the country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24358543

Not much heard about the so called evidence given to Russia but if this is anything to go by......

No, as we say in London 'every cxxx and his mother' knows that the chemical signature of the weapons used are from the Syrian regime's stockpile. Member HB suggested Sarin could have been made in a bathtub which is true, no question about it. That is not to say it could have literally been made in a bathtub but that it could be made at very high risk in a place and using bad equipment. However, they could NOT have made it with the same chemical signature. Now.... suddenly.... outside 'agencies' made it! Well my dumb as xxxx Syrian regime, the precursors used to make the Sarin will leave an indelible signature contained within the final product.

All this after a supposed agreement <deleted>. Start being honest.

Agreed - the chemical signatures of both the precursors and the deteriorated final product will be unique to the manufacturing process. If done through recognised military/commercial routines, then it can be traced to the specific supplier(s). These may be of Russian / Russian satellite origin, which would point to Syrian government use (or captured stocks used by invading forces), or US/European origin, which could point to Saudi/Qatari supplies to their Al Qaeda/Islamist proxies. Thirdly, of course, is the possibility that they are Saddam Hussein's missing stockpile, being used by the thousands of Iraqi Sunni fighters supporting the rebels. Many of these are SH's former elite troops, looking for a home away from their Shia oppressors.

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