Experiencing Death in Thailand

[chrisfwilson]

I live in a small close nit community where my closest friends are Thais.

The Bloke next door is a great guy and would do anything for me and others in the village and we generally meet each Friday to have a "party" with communal food and a a few drinks along the way.

His brother and partner visit quite often and she has always been a bubbly smiling girl, who spoke some English and was always happy to say Hello.

Unfortunately, her mother, sister and herself were involved in an accident (lost control of their vehicle in pouring rain) that saw the mother and sister die instantly but the girl was alive, barely.

This occurred last Friday and unfortunately the dear soul lost her battle and passed away earlier today.

As a bystander I have been very saddened by this tragedy (she really was a great kid) but amazed at the process over the last week. We are facebook addicts and so was she and since the accident there has been a steady flow of information both on facebook as well as from our neighbour. I have been shocked to see photos of the accident posted on facebook, graphical to say the least and met with normality by friends and relatives. The bloke next door and his wife are scared to be alone in their house as they truly expect her to visit them!!

Today the body was returned home and the mourning process has begun but once again photos of her being prepared at the temple were posted on facebook. Tomorrow night I, along with most of the village will go to the temple to pay our respects but I will say its been a very different experience.

[johntren]

Thanks for sharing this and many considerations. Take your lead from those around you. Be present. Say little. Be ready for hoots of laughter at strange moments &vice versa. Good time to be generous and then some.

Been too much death in this part of Isan lately. Fare thee well &please report back when able.

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[Sceptict11]

Sorry about your friends.

Death is something which different societies/cultures manage in many ways.

In the "West" death is often sanitised and "hidden away" which why the Thai way may seem strange to an "outsider"

Grieve for your friends but take your clues on what is acceptable from the Thais.

[cooked]

Sorry to pose this question: have you been in Thailand for a long time? I have become used to this stuff but I know that when I started visiting I was a bit taken about by this attitude. It all fits in with the Thai way of life and thinking about life, takes some time to 'get it'.

[David48]

Chris ... great post.

The first day is but the many of days of the Funeral.

Black and White clothes at the Funeral.

Good Luck.

EDIT ... there is so much that happens with the ghosts.

It's something like the 3 rd night after they pass, they will try and come back into the bed, so if the husband has died, on the 3rd night, the wife will get someone to sleep in the bed with her, so that the ghost of the relative past can not join and stay there.

Someone might be able to tidy that up, as it's a scratchy recollection.

Edited October 10, 2013 by David48

[chrisfwilson]

My wife will not attend as she was gravely ill herself with cancer but overcome it (another truly amazing story for a later time) but she is very good at what the do's and donts are and I will go with some neighbours but thanks for the heads up

Yes its a new experience for me only being a "true" resident for 15 months but being closer to \Thais more than farangs helps in a lot of ways

as I said she was a lovely gir who wouldn't hurt a fly so I am surprised at the thais being so scared. The neighbour left about 30 minutes ago to be with the family at the temple and his house is ablaze with light

Thanks to all who have replied

[Sheryl]

Yes, the fear of ghosts has never made sense to me especially as regards people who were known and loved, but there you have it. The Cambodians and Burmese are the same. Firmly believe in ghosts and petrified of them.

[saakura]

Yes, the fear of ghosts has never made sense to me especially as regards people who were known and loved, but there you have it. The Cambodians and Burmese are the same. Firmly believe in ghosts and petrified of them.

Most asian societies beleive that 'People who were known and loved' are more likely to return because of their attachment to friends,good life and material things. There are less chances of the 'loners,losers and unloved ones' returning as they never seemed to have much liked their earthly life anyways.

[Sheryl]

Yes, the fear of ghosts has never made sense to me especially as regards people who were known and loved, but there you have it. The Cambodians and Burmese are the same. Firmly believe in ghosts and petrified of them.

Most asian societies beleive that 'People who were known and loved' are more likely to return because of their attachment to friends,good life and material things. There are less chances of the 'loners,losers and unloved ones' returning as they never seemed to have much liked their earthly life anyways.

Ok, that is understandable, but why the extreme fear oi them (in their ghost form)?

[Sheryl]

An insensitive post has been hidden along with posts quoting it.

[Bcgardener]

For someone coming from the west, the Thai way of dealing with death and funerals can be a tad confronting. My father passed away in Australia a few years ago and all funeral preparations were handled by the funeral director with any discussions held in nicely decorated offices etc. About a year after that my Thai wife's mother passed away in hospital after a short illness. Discussions about the details and coffin etc were held in the hospital morgue with mum laid out in front of us. We then all trooped off somewhere unknown to me. Turns out we had been sent to the infirmary to buy the formaldehyde. All of this was very uncomfortable to me but seemed to help the Thai family deal with their grief, by having something to do.

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[Sceptict11]

Yes, the fear of ghosts has never made sense to me especially as regards people who were known and loved, but there you have it. The Cambodians and Burmese are the same. Firmly believe in ghosts and petrified of them.

The belief in the "Pee" (ghost) is reinforced by popular Thai "soap operas"!

[rgs2001uk]

but I will say its been a very different experience.

What you need to bear in mind, its not the end of a life, its the start of a new life.

Think of an Irish wake, now think of your normal funeral experience, none is right or wrong, its just the way it is here.

[soi41]

Mods! What about moving this thread to "general", deserves a bigger audience ?

[tropo]

Sorry to pose this question: have you been in Thailand for a long time? I have become used to this stuff but I know that when I started visiting I was a bit taken about by this attitude. It all fits in with the Thai way of life and thinking about life, takes some time to 'get it'.

It's not always down to time. I've been here nearly 8 years and will likely never experience this. It was an interesting insight.

[tropo]

For someone coming from the west, the Thai way of dealing with death and funerals can be a tad confronting. My father passed away in Australia a few years ago and all funeral preparations were handled by the funeral director with any discussions held in nicely decorated offices etc. About a year after that my Thai wife's mother passed away in hospital after a short illness. Discussions about the details and coffin etc were held in the hospital morgue with mum laid out in front of us. We then all trooped off somewhere unknown to me. Turns out we had been sent to the infirmary to buy the formaldehyde. All of this was very uncomfortable to me but seemed to help the Thai family deal with their grief, by having something to do.

Sent from my GT-P5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, I believe being up close and personal with a dead relative is a very important part of the grieving process.

This reminds me of my father's death. I was the only sibling who viewed him after he died and it did make a remarkable difference in how we all handled it. My sister was in complete denial... perhaps she secretly mourned him but I'm sure it distorted the process.

[Sheryl]

Mods! What about moving this thread to "general", deserves a bigger audience ?

I have considered that, but while it would get a bigger audience it would also draw a larger amount of less- than- sensitive comments; readers of the health Forum tend to be a bit better in that regard.

OP chose to place this in Health; if s/he requests it to be moved, I'll move it, otherwise it stays here for now.

[fiberman]

I don't know what it is like in the North but in the South you are expected to go to the funeral of any relative, it doesn't matter how distant. As my wife's extended family runs probably to several thousand she seems to average at least one a week and on a good week 3 or 4. At 500 Baht a throw it starts to work out expensive.

The thought process behind this is that if you go to the funeral then that family will be expected to come to yours and the more people at your funeral the more brownie points you get with "him" upstairs.

[Sheryl]

As Thai beliefs do not include a "him" upstairs I think it has more to do with "face" for the family.

Also as I understand it, the deceased is thought to be present at the funeral (in ghost form) and to therefore know what the turnout was like. So good turnout reduces risk of angering a ghost or hurting the departed's feelings.

[David48]

What is it with stroking the hand with the palm turned up?

I did it once with the Thai gf and she said don't ... only for the dead.

Also, no building should only have 4 posts ... only for a Funeral Place ... ?

Can anyone put some meat on those bones of ideas?

[ToddWeston]

What is it with stroking the hand with the palm turned up?

I did it once with the Thai gf and she said don't ... only for the dead.

Also, no building should only have 4 posts ... only for a Funeral Place ... ?

Can anyonet some meat on those bones of ideas?

The four post/pillars I believe is the Chinese influence of feing shui and the number four sounds like death when spoken at least in Cantonese - like 8 sounding like money I could be wrong and would like to hear what others think or have been told. Edited October 11, 2013 by ToddWeston

[fiberman]

As Thai beliefs do not include a "him" upstairs I think it has more to do with "face" for the family.

Also as I understand it, the deceased is thought to be present at the funeral (in ghost form) and to therefore know what the turnout was like. So good turnout reduces risk of angering a ghost or hurting the departed's feelings.

Your probably right Sheryl, I gave up trying to understand how it all works years ago, especially as Thai Buddhism seems to be so mixed up with animism. Years ago after some trouble at our house we had problems with a ghost for about a year. Everyone who came to stay overnight saw this guy roaming around and we even had a policeman staying who pulled a gun on the ghost which promptly vanished. Never saw it myself but it was strange that everyone gave exactly the same description of him. After about 5 or 6 people had been frightened (all Thais by the way) my wife got a local holy man in and he was never seen again.

[chrisfwilson]

We have just returned from the temple and as some of the replies asked for an update, here goes

Seems that the cycle will go for 6 days, the first 5 are "sponsored" and tonight our village sponsored the event with the last day being the burning of the body. Unfortunately I need to return to Australia next week for work so will not be able to attend.

We were ushered up to pay our respects and pray to her with a stick of incense and then we sat with the family in laws.

4 Monks attended and I was further informed that these represent 1) being born,2) getting old, 3) getting sick and then 4) dying.

We paid for a wreath and most people were very pleased a farang took the time to a) send the wreath and then 2) attend.

I now understand that the pickup had 7 people in it, 4 died and 3 survived, one being a small lad who was tossed clear and suffered no injuries. 2 young girls who now must live with their Aunty.

Such a tragedy..

PS... I placed this here thinking its where it was best suited and agree that in the broader forums it tends to attract less that sincere responses

Edited October 11, 2013 by chrisfwilson

[David48]

chris ... warmly appreciate you returning and sharing what you experienced ...

.