UK/Ireland land border - where and how to show visa?

[throwaway12oct]

Hi,

I'm planning a trip to Ireland and the UK with my Thai girlfriend next year. We're not trying to break any rules - she'll have both an Irish visa and a UK visa.

Our itinerary seems to be a bit tricky though. We want to fly into Dublin, where she'll submit her passport at the airport, show her visa, and be stamped into Ireland. No problems on that front.

We'd then stay in Ireland for a few days, then drive into Northern Ireland - but there's nowhere at the border for her to submit her passport with her UK visa.

We'd then want to fly from Northern Ireland to England - but we wouldn't be going through passport control at either airport, as it's a domestic flight.

So at what point should she actually get stamped into the UK? What's the proper way to do this so that she's in the country legally at all times?

[Jay Sata]

You won't have any problems.

There is no border control between north and south.

A you say she has visa's for both Eire/UK so will be in both legally.

The odds are she'll be stamped at Luton/Stansted,assuming you are using EZY/Ryanair.

If you just stayed on the Irish mainland and never came to Britain (apart from the six counties) before returning to Thailand she'd never get a UK stamp.

[Basil B]

I have been trying to find out on Google because I am sure any "Visa National" needs to get their passport stamped on entry to the UK, (the process where whereby visa holders are checked on arrival "Landed")

Unless it is sufficient to have been stamped in by another member of the CTA (The Common Travel Area, this is a travel zone that comprises the islands of Ireland, Great Britain, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands).

It would be most useful to get a definitive answer to this hot potato by someone who actually knows.

[ChinChanGamble]

I believe there is an agreement between the UK and RoI to allow free travel, im in the south and have friends that travel to Belfast and back all the time. I believe it's only when leaving from airports it is a requirement to be in the correct nation of

where the visa was granted

Sent from my C6603 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jay Sata]

In theory it is possible to stamp you in to the UK leaving Belfast.

However not much point for someone holding the correct visa as it can be done on landing in the UK.

[Richard W]

Unless it is sufficient to have been stamped in by another member of the CTA (The Common Travel Area, this is a travel zone that comprises the islands of Ireland, Great Britain, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands).

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/customs-travel/Enteringtheuk/arrivingatukborder/travellingtocommontravelarea/ rather implies that the only entry stamp applied for the UK will be the one applied in Dublin. It would probably be a good idea to hold on to the paperwork for the car hire, as that will be the best evidence of when you entered the UK!

I think the odds are good that the leave to enter the UK will not be checked in the UK. It might be checked on arrival in Dublin to ensure that a random passport check would not result in your girlfriend being returned to Ireland from the UK.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Richard W

[wasas]

My wife having a uk settlement visa ,we want to go to dublin.

Could we fly to belfast and then travel to dublin by car

[7by7]

I believe there is an agreement between the UK and RoI to allow free travel, im in the south and have friends that travel to Belfast and back all the time. I believe it's only when leaving from airports it is a requirement to be in the correct nation of

where the visa was granted

Sent from my C6603 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This is the Common Travel Area, which includes the Isle of Mann and the Channel Islands; but only applies to citizens of the UK and the RoI. EEA nationals can travel between the two countries using the EEA freedom of movement regulations, of course.

An Irish visa does not allow entry to the UK and vice versa. Visa nationals, which includes Thais, do need a visa for both countries. Although there are on going discussions between the two governments to change this and make the CTA a sort of 'mini Schengen' where an Irish non settlement visa will be valid for the UK and a UK one valid for the RoI.

However, if travelling between the two countries by land or sea it is unlikely that you will be stopped by immigration of either country; but both do carry out random checks from time to time.

A few years ago when I was disembarking from the car ferry at Rosslare uniformed Irish immigration officers were pulling over random vehicles and checking the occupants' documents.

I'm told by a friend who lives in Dundalk and regularly crosses to and from the North that this occasionally happens at land crossings as well.

As for the stamps in a travellers passport, I agree with RichardW; from all the information I can find it seems that the Irish entry stamp will show that they have entered the CTA and so they do not need another stamp when entering the UK; provided they remain within the CTA.

[7by7]

My wife having a uk settlement visa ,we want to go to dublin.

Could we fly to belfast and then travel to dublin by car

Yes, but unless she has an Irish visa she would be in the Republic illegally.

General Information for UK Visa Holders

[Richard W]

My wife having a uk settlement visa ,we want to go to dublin.

Could we fly to belfast and then travel to dublin by car

Yes, but unless she has an Irish visa she would be in the Republic illegally.

If Wasas is Australian, I agree with you.

If Wasas is an EEA national, my understanding (but people please check before acting on it) is that in law all that his wife needs besides a passport is him plus evidence of marriage, e.g. a marriage certificate (and a translation if it is not in English). If Wasas is Irish, evidence of working abroad (e.g. in England) may also be needed so he can Surinder Singh it.

I do remember a report of someone (British?) successfully entering Spain with nothing more than ID plus a marriage certificate for his non-EU (Thai?) wife.

There may, however, be a problem with the Irish illegally demanding a visa.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Richard W

[7by7]

Indeed, this was discussed at length in a recent topic.

Basically, the non EEA spouse of an EEA national has the right to enter any EEA state other than that which their spouse is a national without a visa provided they are travelling with or to join their spouse and can prove the relationship to that state's immigration's satisfaction at their port of entry.

Not just spouses, but also civil partners and other qualifying family members. As you rightly say, Surinder Singh also comes into play if entering the state of which the EEA national is a national when s/he is/has been living and working in another EEA state.

However, the theory and the practicalities are on many occasions different. Through this and other forums I have read of many situations where the immigration officers concerned have been unaware of this regulation; causing delay and frustration for the travellers while things are sorted out.

Therefore I would recommend obtaining the appropriate visa.

Particularly as the Irish government have this to say on the matter!

5. I am the family member of an EU national and resident in the UK: do I need a visa to travel to Ireland?

Yes. Check the “Who needs a visa” page of this website to see if you are a national of a country that is visa-required.

Please note: if you state on your application that you are travelling with your EU family member, then you will be issued with a visa stating “accompanying EU family member”. If you then travel without that EU family member you may be refused entry to Ireland and/or have a visa warning entered on your passport.

[Arkady]

Last time I flew to Dublin from London City Airport there was no passport control going into Dublin. Even if you can get in and out without an Irish visa, there could be problems checking into a hotel. I don't think it matters much if the visa is not stamped, as long as you have one.

Schengen visas are a different matter though. Mrs Arkady had trouble leaving Portugal because a Finnish immigration officer was busy chatting her up and forgot to stamp her into Schengenland and we didn't notice until we were on our connecting flight out of Finland. The Portuguese had a lot of questions about how she got in and found it hard to believe that their Finnish colleagues could be so negligent. In the end they compromised by not stamping her out since she had apparently never arrived. We nearly missed our flight.

[throwaway12oct]

Unless it is sufficient to have been stamped in by another member of the CTA (The Common Travel Area, this is a travel zone that comprises the islands of Ireland, Great Britain, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands).

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/customs-travel/Enteringtheuk/arrivingatukborder/travellingtocommontravelarea/ rather implies that the only entry stamp applied for the UK will be the one applied in Dublin. It would probably be a good idea to hold on to the paperwork for the car hire, as that will be the best evidence of when you entered the UK!

I think the odds are good that the leave to enter the UK will not be checked in the UK. It might be checked on arrival in Dublin to ensure that a random passport check would not result in your girlfriend being returned to Ireland from the UK.

Thanks, that seems the likeliest outcome. She'll need to show her Thai passport as photo ID in order to board the domestic flight from Northern Ireland into England, so I'm just a little worried that people may start asking questions and causing problems if it contains a UK visa, but no entry stamp.

Lots of "probably"s in this thread, and although I agree with you, does anyone have any idea who I should ask for a definitive answer? It'd be nice to be able to point to a page on a UK government website that says she absolutely is allowed to be in the country without that stamp!

[bobrussell]

You will not be the only one to face this issue and I am confident that an explanation of your movements will be all that is necessary in the unlikely event you hit problems. If your wife has a valid visa for both the UK and Ireland there should be little need to worry.

She needs the visa not a stamp! Just keep boarding cards etc. She will have to fill in a landing card for the UK and I suspect will do so for Ireland if the flight is from outside the EU!

http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Published%20Files/AIP%20Files/GEN/EI_GEN_1_3_EN.pdf

(just says may be required to fill in a landing card!)

Edited October 14, 2013 by bobrussell