Claiming child benefit from absent father

[simon43]

The younger sister of my ex-wife (Thai) had a relationship with a British man who normally works overseas (oil and gas industry). She had a son and the British man is the natural father and he is named (at his request) as the father on the Thai birth certificate and the boy (at his request) bears his surname and the father has helped my SIL to obtain a British passport for the boy who is now 2 years old.

In the early months after the boy was born, the father sent 30,000 baht per month. Those payments quickly stopped and now her emails to him go unanswered. She cannot work because she must look after her young son and is in dire financial straits (my ex gives her free board and lodging).

My SIL speaks little English and is unsure of what she can do to obtain child support from this man. I am helping her to contact him because he is being a sh*t for providiing nothing for his own son.

This guy works for a British company. As I understand it, it may be possible to get a child support award from a UK court and have the monthly payment deducted directly from the guy's salary.

I would appreciate any advise from those with experience of the British child support system.

Criticism of my help for her will go in one ear and out t'other. When I divorced my British wife, I gave her a $2 million house which was rapidly sold to provide child support for the next xxx years. I do not approve of someone earning $$$ in the O & G industry, yet denying their own son a few baht.

Simon

[beano2274]

If she is not in the UK then no chance, as far as I remember only Service personnel can claim Child Benefit when outside of the UK.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/who-qualifies/live-work-abroad.htm

Edited October 20, 2013 by beano2274

[DarloKnight]

Try Gov.uk this is a UK website I just had a quick look it does not look like she will be able to claim CSA but worth a good look to see if there is anything she can do.

[hansnl]

If she is not in the UK then no chance, as far as I remember only Service personnel can claim Child Benefit when outside of the UK.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/who-qualifies/live-work-abroad.htm

The problem lies in Thailand.

Governmental offices are bound to collect child benefit or alimony.

Having done that, they need a governmental office in Thailand to receive the money and send it to the applicant.

Thailand does not have an office to handle this.

[ianf]

The law in the UK is very clear on this one. You cannot claim CSB from a parent that lives overseas, even though that person may work for a UK company.

[Mario2008]

The father can be made to pay child support, if he is the legal father. From what you write it seems he is currently not.

Problem is, there is no treaty between the UK and Thailand to effect child support payments. Still legalisation might be a good thing to do, as it will make the child a legal heir and establishes his Britsh nationality.

[Mario2008]

2 post removed as off topic.

OP asked a question, we discuss the answers not what the fathers side of the story is.

[prakhonchai nick]

No child benefit eligible. The child must be in the UK. No child tax credits either.

Sue the bastard father, with a requirement for backdated payments + interest. An e mail or letter to him advising what is proposed may bring early results.

[rhodie]

I think the best thing you can do for her is to try contact the guy and broker some deal. It may be that 30 000 was too much of a drain on his finances. Maybe if he was up for a more realistic amount, it may be acceptable. There would be a communication problem if she speaks very little English. Could all be down to a misunderstanding. Going the legal route will be very difficult and very expensive.

Good luck.

[rotary]

I am not sure what can be done but if it did go to Thai court I think there is no way she would be awarded B30K per month. Maybe 5K or something like that. Agreed the father should step up and take care of the kid but B30K was a bit over the top by Thai standards.

[prakhonchai nick]

I think the best thing you can do for her is to try contact the guy and broker some deal. It may be that 30 000 was too much of a drain on his finances. Maybe if he was up for a more realistic amount, it may be acceptable. There would be a communication problem if she speaks very little English. Could all be down to a misunderstanding. Going the legal route will be very difficult and very expensive.

Good luck.

The Child Support Agency cannot assist as mother and child are not in the UK

The only way to obtain support is either voluntary or going to court, which as has been said, is expensive.

Negotiation may be the best way, with a realistic expectation. If all else fails may be possible to embarrass him by notifying his employer!

[Mario2008]

That they are not in the UK is not the point, the point is that they are in a country with which the UK doesn't have a treaty.

As a result, the courts can do nothing. The Thai court can and will issue an order, but it can not be enforced abroad. (And the payment will be awarded for between 3,000 and 6,000 baht a month plus half of all educaitonal and healthcare costs).

[venturalaw]

If she is not in the UK then no chance, as far as I remember only Service personnel can claim Child Benefit when outside of the UK.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/who-qualifies/live-work-abroad.htm

The problem lies in Thailand.

Governmental offices are bound to collect child benefit or alimony.

Having done that, they need a governmental office in Thailand to receive the money and send it to the applicant.

Thailand does not have an office to handle this.

Actually there is a way around that. In the U.S. the State child enforcement agency will collect on behalf of a Thai mother and forward the child support to her in Thailand. In other words, Thai courts are not involved. Whether this is available in the U.K. requires a U.K. attorney/solicitor to explore. I know of one and will provide the information via PM for anyone interested.

[Mario2008]

1 off topic post removed.

If you have nothing to contribute, don't post.

[Mario2008]

If she is not in the UK then no chance, as far as I remember only Service personnel can claim Child Benefit when outside of the UK.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/who-qualifies/live-work-abroad.htm

The problem lies in Thailand.

Governmental offices are bound to collect child benefit or alimony.

Having done that, they need a governmental office in Thailand to receive the money and send it to the applicant.

Thailand does not have an office to handle this.

Actually there is a way around that. In the U.S. the State child enforcement agency will collect on behalf of a Thai mother and forward the child support to her in Thailand. In other words, Thai courts are not involved. Whether this is available in the U.K. requires a U.K. attorney/solicitor to explore. I know of one and will provide the information via PM for anyone interested.

The British authorities do not do that. Rules say there must be a treaty, which there is not with Thailand.

[prakhonchai nick]

Some people here show their true colors. Employers pay no attention to people trying to embaras their staff. (Your original quote!!)

Some people here amaze me. Employers pay no attention to people trying to embarass their staff.

The op says it is the younger sister of his ex wife...Even assuming he is being given all the facts which is doubtful.

Non of his business. There are far more deserving cases of children being abandoned in Thailand if he needs to keep himself busy.

Indeed, I will show my true colours. A man fathers a child then just buggers off. He deserves everything thast can be thrown at him until he does what he should do!

And why shouldn't the op help the young sister of his ex. She is after all the child's aunt, and for all we know may be instrumental in raising the child.

Well done maprao!

[loong]

Strictly speaking, you have to be a UK resident to use the Citizens Advice Bureau, so I don't know if it would be worthwhile to make an email enquiry with them.

Maybe you know a UK resident that could make enquiries on your/her behalf?

[simon43]

Actually, I should have stated some points more clearly. The SIL does not want to claim UK child benefits from the CSA, but simply wants the father to contribute towards the upbringing of his son.

He previously and willingly sent money from his (rather substantial) oil & gas industry income, but that stopped and he doesn't reply to her emails (which she sends in simple English).

I have known her for 10 years, so this is not some stranger who has made up a story. She would much prefer him to voluntarily make a monthly payment, but that seems unlikely since he is not replying to her emails. He is employed outside the UK by a UK company and UK law states that if an award is made against him to pay child support, then he is legally required to pay this, even to have it deducted from his salary. This is the case even though he works outside the UK because his employer is a British company.

The problem is for the mother to bring a legal case against him and since neither her nor their son is in the UK, there seems no solution to this problem.

The mother has sent her emails also to his employer, (because he will not reply to her). So his employer is also aware of the situation. Perhaps she can 'embarrass' him into making some payment?

Anyway, practical advice is appreciated to help her.

Simon

Edited October 21, 2013 by simon43

[Mario2008]

Official governemnt webiste is here: https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-if-one-parent-lives-abroad/reciprocal-enforcement-of-maintenance-orders-remos

[Baerboxer]

Simon - some good posts here but also some slightly inaccurate.

The Child Support Agency will not want to get involved if the child is outside the UK. In fact, as far as they are concerned the child is not entitled to receive this if they are not resident in the UK. I have a letter confirming this from the Child Support Agency.

The only way for your ex's SIL to pursue this is through the courts. The child has a British passport and a named British father. The English family courts, I'm sure would support an action for maintenance, as they always look to make judgement in the best interests of the child. If it goes to court, then all the father's assets will be taken into consideration not just income and allowances as with the CSA. If the father checks this, he may be inclined to offer a deal rather than risk a judge being more generous to the child. Any court order imposed would be recognized by a British company (or EU) if it did get to this.

A court judgement is much more enforceable than the CSA but, of course, litigation in the UK is expensive. However, from how you describe the guy, he may well want to settle out of court.

Good luck.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Baerboxer

[prakhonchai nick]

Simon - some good posts here but also some slightly inaccurate.

The Child Support Agency will not want to get involved if the child is outside the UK. In fact, as far as they are concerned the child is not entitled to receive this if they are not resident in the UK. I have a letter confirming this from the Child Support Agency.

The only way for your ex's SIL to pursue this is through the courts. The child has a British passport and a named British father. The English family courts, I'm sure would support an action for maintenance, as they always look to make judgement in the best interests of the child. If it goes to court, then all the father's assets will be taken into consideration not just income and allowances as with the CSA. If the father checks this, he may be inclined to offer a deal rather than risk a judge being more generous to the child. Any court order imposed would be recognized by a British company (or EU) if it did get to this.

A court judgement is much more enforceable than the CSA but, of course, litigation in the UK is expensive. However, from how you describe the guy, he may well want to settle out of court.

Good luck.

Agree

The op and the Mother should jointly contact the father advising that it is proposed that legal action will be taken commencing within a specified period...?14 days, unless he, (the father), agrees to make regular payments for upkeep for his child and the mother.

It would be worth indicating that they understand that a Court would take into consideration not only his current income but all his assets when making an award.

[realenglish1]

Everyone is talking legal leaze here and It is clear she has not got a leg to stand on So the next step is to embarrass him into paying Contact his employer his brothers his sisters anyone who knows him

Sent then photos and a copy of the birth certificate as well telling them the situation

If he has any moral fiber at all he will react to the situation

After all he did not play far so why should you

This is the best and only bet you have left

Good luck

[ivorsnest60]

hi simon43,

there probably are not too many that disagree with what you say.

however, if he was not married to her, do you know he has actually not 1% validity as the father. its a puzzle, why not, but the worth seems to be , in naming someone on the birth certificate, to suit thai people only.

your endeavor to put this right, is gallant, . but wait and think just for a moment please.

reason, -- if he was sending 30k as proposed, and then nothing, then surely something went wrong. outside of a plea for money.

my insults are based on , i am british , man. i have been here for 7 years, -- i have two daughters, they were deserted cuckoo style, and although there is still a slight contact, not a mention of any support has ever been mentioned. this is of course different to your post.

but really , the only thing these thai girls have children for here, in what seems to be most cases, is financial back up. from us, or indeed for later in life when our children grow up. to carry on the trade. !!

its very obvious, to some, people in glass houses should not throw stones.

5-6k a month is a good amount to give as a gesture. for child help.

this man who ever he is, just needs to be propositioned, with the right information, and ime sure he will turn this around, but 30k, its not right and probably not fair.

in one ear and out the other, maybe, but they look after themselves, what are you actually saying here. is it right. ! or does it need tweeking a bit. to get this understood by most.

[rhodie]

Before you run off with all these suggestions to contact everyone, it may be better to try get in contact with him. Who knows, the guy may not be alive. I think you should try to make contact with him.

Anything could have happened to him.

[hellodolly]

I think the best thing you can do for her is to try contact the guy and broker some deal. It may be that 30 000 was too much of a drain on his finances. Maybe if he was up for a more realistic amount, it may be acceptable. There would be a communication problem if she speaks very little English. Could all be down to a misunderstanding. Going the legal route will be very difficult and very expensive.

Good luck.

Yes a e mail showing willingness to take less may bring about a better response. If not there is always the courts. Sue him for back child support at the rate of 30,000 baht a month. That might get his attention. Be sure that he is the registered father and have the papers to prove it.

Good Luck

Sounds like she is going to need it.

[Pacificperson]

Have you considered the possibility that something has happened to the father? Have you verified that his is alive and well?

[JackieMager]

i would say there is little that can be done unless he volunteers to contribute. Another thing, 30.000baht a month is a lot for a Thai, child or no child. Perhaps if he paid less it might make him at least contribute something.

[hellodolly]

If she is not in the UK then no chance, as far as I remember only Service personnel can claim Child Benefit when outside of the UK.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/who-qualifies/live-work-abroad.htm

The problem lies in Thailand.

Governmental offices are bound to collect child benefit or alimony.

Having done that, they need a governmental office in Thailand to receive the money and send it to the applicant.

Thailand does not have an office to handle this.

Actually there is a way around that. In the U.S. the State child enforcement agency will collect on behalf of a Thai mother and forward the child support to her in Thailand. In other words, Thai courts are not involved. Whether this is available in the U.K. requires a U.K. attorney/solicitor to explore. I know of one and will provide the information via PM for anyone interested.

The States take child support very serious. I have a brother in law who works for the welfare system. That is all he does is track down dead beat parents and force them to pay support money.

[simon43]

To answer some posters' questions:

The man is very much alive and working for a British O & G company - his employers have confirmed this and have forwarded some emails from the SIL to him. But he chooses not to reply.

If he were in the UK, then the CSA child maintenance 'calculator' indicates a monthly child maintenance payment of about $1,000. The SIL is not seeking that amount, but is seeking a reasonable sum - say 15,000 baht per month.

Simon

[winstonc]

6.000 a month is quite enough,lets not get greedy because hes a foriegner eh...15.000 a month is a months wages to a thai guy.you think a thai would pay that...no and nor should the english guy..seems a bit of gold digging,but i could be wrong..