Learning meditation with no religious inclinations

[Ragz]

For an intro to meditation I suggest doing a Goenka Vipassana 10 day retreat. However, there is some Buddhism talked about in these retreats. If you really want to avoid any religious or metaphysical talk of any sort there are the following teachers/methods:

John Kabat-Zinn. Mindfulness and relaxation meditation. He's written an bunch of books and has a bunch of guided audio lessons

Open Focus: a kind of guided mindfulness meditation. Similar to vipassana body scanning. They have a bunch of audio lessons available: openfocus.com

The Relaxation Response: a form of mantra meditation. The author of this book was sued by the TM organization I believe, because the method is similar to their proprietary method. You can buy the book on amazon and they have a website.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[umbanda]

Vipassana meditation is all about mindfulness and being present in the moment. It leads to wisdom to see things as they really are. One does not have to be of any particular religion to practice it. My teacher said that it would make a Christian a better Christian, a Muslim a better Muslim ,etc.

The meditation retreats in Thailand which cater to foreigners do not require one to be a Buddhist.

Looks like you need to be taught by a guru to be able to meditate using this style.

I don't think i could ever actually find the time nor have the patience to actually see someone to teach me how to meditate i rather find information from the internet and try it at home.

Is meditation just basically siting still and just letting one's mind be empty without any thoughts interrupting for as long as possible and that it isn't really so easy so most ppl either listen to some type of music or chanting a word om for example in short to force the mind to prevent it from wandering and that someone that has reached the pinacle of meditation doesn't need any chanting or music but just simply sits there with his mind empty for hours?

If you have 10 days you can go to a retreat.

Here's the link http://www.dhamma.org/

You can book your course on that website. The courses are free. All over the world. And pretty effective. You only need 10 days to learn the technique and then you can continue to practice at home.

It is not recommended to practice from a book.

To you last question: Vipassana meditation is accepting the reality as it is (basically, although it may be little bit more complex than just that).

It has little to do with an empty mind, but that can happen.

10 days? In 15 days you can become a novice monk in some meditation retreats, and surely will be Buddha chanting, prayers, etc, etc.

There are many meditation centers and retreats in Thailand where you can learn at your pace. I did one in BK but unfortunately do not remember name or contact info. In Chiang Mai www.monkchat.net offers 2 days, one night, meditation retreats in English and only for foreigners, very inclusive, informative, and with all the elements to learn it. The religious part of it is minimal and is not mandatory to do it, just to respect it. In just 2 days, you can learn all the basis to keep it doing at your own...even to teach to others. My advise...NOT to do the long retreats, 5 days, 10 days, up to 21 days, if you do not have previous experience or a strong motivation.

[Brickbat]

It's all a BIG JOKE!! Albert Einstein said that the thing that causes a problem cannot fix the problem. Buddha gave a very simple technique to lose our thoughts. Watch the breath. It goes in. It goes out. Pay attention. OFFCOURSE our little monkey minds won't like this and will kick in. Any one heard of the word Practice.

No one needs any retreats or fancy river banks or mountains when we can retreat to this beautiful place in our hearts.

As the Dilmah bloke so eloquently put it " do try it" a few mins every now and then , pay attention to this amazing inspiration and expiration. Breathe in, breathe out

By the by, Buddha's last words were ' no images, no worship, be a light unto thy self ' . Do we see any evidence of that?? All those statues and supplication baloney. Who made that up? Who needs it when we lose our minds.

The promise of redemption over the abyss of nothing is terrifying. And meditation is going into no-thing-ness. In....out.....in...

[A1Str8]

You can just do it yourself. If you are not interested in the religious part then the best way to do it is just do some online research on it. You are going to find a lot of info on the subject and you will be able to learn it easily. Of course like anything else, it requires practice but once you get the hang of it you will understand why people who regularly do it say that it's so important. I have been doing it for a long time and it makes you a different person.

[timber]

I meditate away from the religious vein, more of a self hypnosis type of thing.

You are getting into your sub-conscious mind.. Need a quiet comfortable environment with

no distractions. Good breathing techniques. Focus on your breathing. Every day

is a different level. Somedays it is hard to realize you meditated, you just feel at peace.

Other days can get a high like you have taken drugs. Depends on your state of mind.

I find that I always get stress release, if I am tired mentally or physically I may basically power

nap and come out rested and relaxed. Sometimes I carry a problem into my meditation

and can look at the problem from different angles with the baggage carried by the

conscious mind. Everyone is different and may take two weeks to a month to get into

your subconscious mind. Just stick with it. I used to have an extremely stressful job and

meditation allowed me to maintain my cool under almost all situations and sleep good. I

meditate in the morning for about 20 minutes, and it allows me to start the day with a positive

attitude. I am at peace with the world every morning until my wife gets up and gives me

some honey do's. Sometimes if I am tired or stressed I meditate in the afternoon. Have

to be careful meditating after 6 pm as you may be wide awake when you normally go to sleep.

[trd]

Whatever meditation practice is employed, whether it is putting the attention on the breath or using a mantra, the goal is the same. To transcend the mind and become just pure awareness. This is the natural state and is described in advaita vedanta literature as sat -chit - ananda. (being - consciousness - bliss). Although meditation is described as a practice, and I speak of it that way as well because it is convenient to do so, it is useful to consider a more accurate description. Meditation is not a practice, but is something that happens when the mind reaches the one pointed state of samadhi. For most people who may practice for many years, that "state" for the want of a better word is a fleeting samadhi. It comes and goes as one comes out of meditation back into the world of action of thought and senses and then returns as one plunges back into the quietness once again, the inward and outward strokes of meditation.

A day will eventually arrive when this fleeting samadhi becomes permanently established as sahaj samadhi. It may happen in an instant. From that point on, there is only peace without further inner conflict or suffering. One can then say that meditation is constant, never ending, choiceless and without doership.

[Mudcrab]

Didn't the Beatles famously do this in the sixties with maharishi???? and subsequently penned the song "Fool on the Hill?"

Whatever floats yer boat.

[Brickbat]

I believe it's an oxymoron to say " I meditate'. As when being in meditation, the "I" gets annihilated into no- thing. The thinker, the thinking and the thought all merge into one.

And that brings redemption if we practice meditation. But the mind ( the thoughts) is not going to easily allow this to happen. So it needs the understanding. And the devotion to practice. Confusing this simplicity with a lot of religious nonsense is what flaws the simple process. Just observe your breathing for 10 mins a day. It will also have health benefits.

[Brickbat]

It was Paul McCartney that wrote that song. It was George Harrison that followed Hinduism , jumping from Maharishi after his sex scandal and joined the harekrishnas.. He coaxed the others to visit the fool on the hill.

[greengarden]

Here's an online source that teaches tools to help you focus, get grounded, centered in the present. http://www.amirahhall.com

These meditation/visualization energy tools offer powerful practices opens you up for grace and ease in your life. Life just gets easier and more joyful. I've been using them for many years and have seen ever-growing benefits in my own life.

Amirah teaches practical ways that connect and ground your spirituality into everyday living. Simply, I can't live without these tools. They have truly been a god-send for me. I especially like Energy Tool #7 - Stress Buster. It's a great guided visualization that feels like an energy shower, clearing the muddy thoughts and feelings.

[Brickbat]

Hi Mudcrab, I see you have an image of Yeashea Ben Yusuf, later known as Jesus. He did say " be in this world but not off it" and " whatever ye seek within you will save you, whatever ye seek without will destroy you" . I believe he was talking about meditation.

[Brickbat]

Isn't letting go easier? But this Mind won't allow it. And many tools just strengthen the pernicious habit of " thinking" .

It's too simple, isn't it. To just observe the breath. Millions follow Buddhism and Hinduism rituals and rites , yet their original masters taught this basic principle to be Present. A thought can never be in the present. It's only past or future. Analysing the present makes it the past. It can never happen.

By observing the breath, one slowly learns to be mindful . In meditation.

[squarethecircle]

I second the Vipassana courses from the Goenka centers. 10 days and by donation, you will come out with better understanding of meditation as well as Buddha's teachings (which in their pure form are neither dogmatic nor supernatural).

[mrdome]

Buddhism is not a religion, so the OP can relax. Nobody will try to "sell" him/her anything when approaching a Buddhist course. However, don't expect to just have meditation referred to as some kind of "concentration tool".

[mrdome]

Didn't the Beatles famously do this in the sixties with maharishi???? and subsequently penned the song "Fool on the Hill?"

Whatever floats yer boat.

"Fool on the Hill" was written way before they went to Rishikesh.

The song that was about that experience, was John's "Sexy Sadie" on the White Album. The wikipedia article "The Beatles in India" lists in detail all the reasons that led to tensions and disagreements.

[Malthus101]

Hi Malthus.

I'm surprised you recommend TM to someone wanting non religious meditation.

When I joined a TM group, after an induction period and payment of $400 I underwent a one on one ceremony.

The teacher burnt incense and candles and performed a ritual before a picture of a guru before whispering my personal mantra which was to be kept secret.

I was told the mantra invoked the powers of a deity.

After a number of months I was told that I could undergo the next step which involved the payment of $5,000.

Once this stage was taught the progress and depth of my practice would reach much deeper levels.

Hi

I learned TM in London from a breakaway group. They had become unhappy with the way it was being taught by the official TM group and they thought the prices were exclusively high, meaning poorer people could not learn. I paid about $300 based on my earnings at the time.

I too did the ceremony, the Puja ceremony it is called.

Of course I thought this is a bit weird but I didn't let it bother me as, I know myself and cannot be forced to do something I'm not comfortable with.

If I am correct, Hindus believe the world / universe was brought into being by various sound vibrations. TM meditation comes from Hindu meditation but is a sort of quick-access / cut-down version for modern busy people.

It is meditation based around a mantra. A mantra is a thought / sound / vibration. Each person that learns TM is given a personal mantra that they keep secret. I rather like this. It makes it feel special and unique and also precious, so you want to respect it and honor it.

You can see how being a mantra based meditation links this technique back to its original religious ideas. Each mantra given in TM is a one word mantra. Each one I believe is related to some different Hindu deity. So in essence, by repeating the mantra, the original idea is that you invoke that deity, that deity that had a part in creating one aspect of the universe.

But I asked my teacher about this (a good reason to have a teacher, questions!) and he said that although they didn't practice TM for religious reasons, they respected its origins and said it worked - essentially, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!".

I can respect this.

I had no further payments to make and was able to attend free group meditations whenever one was happening in my area. I cannot speak of the original TM group, as I have heard all sorts of things about them that sound a bit off but at least they will teach TM the correct way.

Learn the technique - do the little ceremony - get your mantra. Practice twice a day - 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening.

Simple.

I have tried breathing and body focus type meditation before, learning from books and never had the patience to stick with them. I also didn't know if I was "doing it right".

I would NOT recommend a 10 day retreat for the OP. It's clear from what he wrote that he doesn't have the patience yet and a 10 day is pretty darn intensive. My friend did one and said it was "the real deal" and I would like to do one too but I wouldn't undertake it lightly. Waking at 4am? Sleeping on the floor? No talking? No books, phones, computers, contact with others? Eating gruel twice a day only?

Pretty hardcore.

Anyway.... Good luck.

[rockyysdt]

Hi Rockyystd,

I remember some of this ceremony you mentioned...

"The teacher burnt incense and candles and performed a ritual before a picture of a guru before whispering my personal mantra which was to be kept secret.

I was told the mantra invoked the powers of a deity"

But I don't really remember anything about a deity or that there was ever any "religious" connection, talks or anything that resembled any spiritual or religious teachings. I attended the local TM centre for several years and never felt there was anything beyond the teaching and practice of meditation techniques.

The guru picture you talk about I think was/is the Maharishi Yogi, the founder of TM. I always felt the burning of incense and a polite Wai was only showing respect to the founder of what I feel is one of the best meditation techniques available... it's worked really well for me and I've been practicing TM now for more than 35 years.

My meditation often ends up in a bit of a prayer session as well. For me this works just fine.

There was absolutely no warning and I was unprepared.

Whilst the ceremony was unfolding I remember thinking: "Here we go. What have I got myself into. Another religious group."

At the time exploring meditation was important to me, and the promise of superior progress due to the power of the TM method was the lure.

I had running to standstill for years.

Not realizing the the turmoil I was experiencing wasn't an inability to meditate, but merely being mindful of my actual condition.

Awareness/mindfulness can only be what actually is, rather than this continuous blissful state which I imagined.

I went along with TM and stuck with the technique for a year or two.

The way my "mantra" was given to me invoked fear.

Fear that if I uttered it to another its power would diminish, and

that I could end up offending the deity it was associated with.

After events such as one night retreats costing 8,400 baht, and promotion of a course which would take me to a powerful new level for 140,000 baht, and then later reduced to 84,000 baht because there were some spare positions left me jaded.

It became clear to me that TM revolved around money.

I'm glad you find the technique itself works well for you.

What I've been learning is that regardless of technique, a very important aspect is regular practice.

Without regular practice it's really all academic.

Up until recent years my idea of practice revolved around "sitting (meditation)" but I have learned that the practice is actually awareness.

Sitting is a focused awareness which, amongst other things, assists with improving concentration.

Daily mindfulness over our wakeful day is equally as important and allows you to practice even when you don't have time to practice.

A trap humans fall into is succumbing to habit.

I remember the story of a young Monk who had great difficulty mastering meditation.

Under the guidance of his master he was instructed in detail on the method he should follow.

The young Monk devoted each day to diligent practice in order to learn the art of meditation.

After at least a year the Monk excitedly visited his Master to inform him that he was now able to successfully meditate.

To his horror the Master told him that he should forget everything he had been taught and to begin practicing in a completely different way.

Dreading having to begin all over again he protested.

What the Master was teaching his disciple was to recognize attachment.

I'm only a beginner but I suspect that the depth of our "awareness" has no bounds.

[rockyysdt]

Hi Malthus.

I'm surprised you recommend TM to someone wanting non religious meditation.

When I joined a TM group, after an induction period and payment of $400 I underwent a one on one ceremony.

The teacher burnt incense and candles and performed a ritual before a picture of a guru before whispering my personal mantra which was to be kept secret.

I was told the mantra invoked the powers of a deity.

After a number of months I was told that I could undergo the next step which involved the payment of $5,000.

Once this stage was taught the progress and depth of my practice would reach much deeper levels.

Hi

I learned TM in London from a breakaway group. They had become unhappy with the way it was being taught by the official TM group and they thought the prices were exclusively high, meaning poorer people could not learn. I paid about $300 based on my earnings at the time.

I too did the ceremony, the Puja ceremony it is called.

Of course I thought this is a bit weird but I didn't let it bother me as, I know myself and cannot be forced to do something I'm not comfortable with.

If I am correct, Hindus believe the world / universe was brought into being by various sound vibrations. TM meditation comes from Hindu meditation but is a sort of quick-access / cut-down version for modern busy people.

It is meditation based around a mantra. A mantra is a thought / sound / vibration. Each person that learns TM is given a personal mantra that they keep secret. I rather like this. It makes it feel special and unique and also precious, so you want to respect it and honor it.

You can see how being a mantra based meditation links this technique back to its original religious ideas. Each mantra given in TM is a one word mantra. Each one I believe is related to some different Hindu deity. So in essence, by repeating the mantra, the original idea is that you invoke that deity, that deity that had a part in creating one aspect of the universe.

But I asked my teacher about this (a good reason to have a teacher, questions!) and he said that although they didn't practice TM for religious reasons, they respected its origins and said it worked - essentially, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!".

I can respect this.

I had no further payments to make and was able to attend free group meditations whenever one was happening in my area. I cannot speak of the original TM group, as I have heard all sorts of things about them that sound a bit off but at least they will teach TM the correct way.

Learn the technique - do the little ceremony - get your mantra. Practice twice a day - 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening.

Simple.

I have tried breathing and body focus type meditation before, learning from books and never had the patience to stick with them. I also didn't know if I was "doing it right".

I would NOT recommend a 10 day retreat for the OP. It's clear from what he wrote that he doesn't have the patience yet and a 10 day is pretty darn intensive. My friend did one and said it was "the real deal" and I would like to do one too but I wouldn't undertake it lightly. Waking at 4am? Sleeping on the floor? No talking? No books, phones, computers, contact with others? Eating gruel twice a day only?

Pretty hardcore.

Anyway.... Good luck.

Early on, when I was exploring Mantras I was told that the correct pronunciation was paramount.

I've been exposed to many techniques over the years, but have been drawn by the simplicity of anapanasiti.

Concentrating on practicing the first 4 steps (learning about breath) yielded great progress for me.

In three months I had progressed further than I had in the previous 25 years.

When we analyse it, we all breath.

We breath, not only when we sit, but during our entire wakeful day.

The breath is not only there for you to focus on, mastering the longest natural comfortable breath, and being aware of its power is the secret.

When I am stressed, anxious, when I have rampant thoughts and when my body is clenched and tense my breath is extremely short or has stopped.

When I am calm, relaxed, open of mind with clarity I have a long relaxed breath.

As we get ever closer to mastering the ideal uncontrolled breath we can then follow the breath all the way in and pushing down onto the sternum and then follow it out.

The other secret is not to try to meditate, but focus on ongoing improvement of posture, breath, & concentration.

With the right conditions meditation comes of its own accord.

It is easy to succumb to negative self talk.

I don't have the patience.

If you observe your thoughts without attachment, soon the thought will float away and disappear from mind.

Yes, ten day retreats can be a challenge.

The real challenge is attempting to become free from your mind.

Your mind will throw everything at you as it wants to remain in control.

If you have the strength to refrain from acting on what your mind tells you, and stick to correct posture (oneness with gravity) , & long breath, eventually you'll experience the bliss when free from mind.

Edited January 5, 2014 by rockyysdt

[Brickbat]

Amazing to see how the " minds" are running amuck. Hard to let go, huh'?

In meditation, thoughts are transcended. Thoughts are the problem.

Acc to Einstien, it will never, ever fix the problem

That's where all the unscrupulous traders come in. And teach garbage.

All one needs is to try this. Invite a thought. And watch for it. NOTHING. NO THOUGHT .

THAT IS WHO WE ARE. THE OBSERVER. CHOICE-LESS AWARENESS

now back to the mind hocus pocus.

[Brickbat]

We are all only capable of one thought at a time. Scientifically proven. Bumper to bumper, so we call it Mind.

Mind does not exist. Only thoughts do. ( Bodhidharma said to the Chinese emperor ' show me your mind' . He could not) .

So, when you observe your breath, with full attention, Guess what!! You are in meditation.

Practise this and you are transcending thoughts. You are in meditation. Congratulations

[Brickbat]

We are all only capable of one thought at a time. Scientifically proven. Bumper to bumper, so we call it Mind.

Mind does not exist. Only thoughts do. ( Bodhidharma said to the Chinese emperor ' show me your mind' . He could not) .

So, when you observe your breath, with full attention, Guess what!! You are in meditation.

Practise this and you are transcending thoughts. You are in meditation. Congratulations

[Sheryl]

.....I would NOT recommend a 10 day retreat for the OP. It's clear from what he wrote that he doesn't have the patience yet and a 10 day is pretty darn intensive. My friend did one and said it was "the real deal" and I would like to do one too but I wouldn't undertake it lightly. Waking at 4am? Sleeping on the floor? No talking? No books, phones, computers, contact with others? Eating gruel twice a day only?

Pretty hardcore.

Anyway.... Good luck.

No sleeping on the floor. A bed and bedding is provided. And no gruel, in fact the food is quite good (referring to the 10 day "Goenka" retreats). But the rest is true enough. You do get up at 4 (though there is opportunity for napping after breakfast and after lunch) and except for discussions with the teachers or management, no talking.

The no talking part is easy, in fact you don't want to -- let alone to read or use a computer -- since the main problem you have is to get your chattering mind to quiet down. The last thing you want is to rile it up with more external input.

I'm a late sleeper by nature but I have no problem getting up at 4 when in a retreat. For one thing, you need a lot less sleep when you are meditating for most of the day. For another, you go to bed comparatively early (9 PM), And as mentioned, easy to get in a nap or two after the meals.

Meditation retreats are indeed serious work but I wouldn't try to scare people off or exaggerate the rigour of it. Tens of thousands of people do this every year, of all ages and from all walks of life. Anyone in reasonable mental and physical health can do this if they are willing.

[yellow1red1]

Try this,;; wiggle your feet in a very, very relaxed manner. You have to think completely limp combined with a flowing movement. [When I get it going, I always think my feet are a hill of, lively, wiggling worms]. After you're settled in to this, keep wiggling your feet and move the relaxed feeling up to the middle of your throat. Feel it spread into your shoulders, neck, & eyes. All the time, keep wiggling your feet. Do this several times a day as part of your daily activities. Do it stirring the soup, going to the bathroom, making love, every time you drive up to a stop sign, during conversations with people, waiting at a bus stop, typing. Talk about Daily Mindfulness, eh. [At bed time, If you can wiggle your feet and relax, like this, until the moment you fall asleep, you could be on your way to lucid dreaming.]

When your feet and throat are relaxed, you're 90% relaxed.

<<< If you just did wiggly worm 10 to 100 times a day, you would be amazed at how it helps with work and family incidents of complication & stress.

-----------------------------------------

People talk a lot about concentrating on the *breath. [more about this further on] I like to get so still and relaxed I can listen to my heart beating. What I do is [listen] to my heart and [watch] my breath. My base meditation point is listening the the heart. [if there is literature on this idea?, I've not seen it!]

With what I call *Breath Taking, I don't Empty my Mind. Instead I have My Mind dance with THE Mind. I set My Mind to the job of completely emptying and filling the lungs on each respiration. I don't breathe [in] or breathe [out], THE Mind is, still, allowed to do its job. For pushing out, near the end of the exhale, simply push your navel into your spine for a number of heart beats. [Remember, you' re listening to your heart and being all wiggly worm, relaxed, better yet, making love.] It's like the tides, [in, neap, out, neap, in, neap, out, neap, in, neap, out, neap and so on] At the top of the inhale, just 'puff' your navel out to the sky, "fill 'er up!" [beat, beat, beat, beat Cloud Burst].

After a few minutes of [your Mind, THE Mind, your Mind, THE Mind, your Mind, THE Mind, your Mind, THE Mind,] you will have an Experience. Have you ever been experienced? not necessarily STONED, but ByuTIFull!

Now, all of the Above, if you want, you can go into a room with cushions and candles, but I get a good feeling walking into the the school grounds to pick up my daughter in a full meditative state. I'm lazy, you see, I don't waste much time [meditating], but when I'm put on hold on a phone call, going to the bathroom, stirring the porridge, riding my bike [you name it] I'm all into Lucid Realizing, same/same Lucid Dreaming. [[[Are you real? Are my fingers getting sore? ahhhhhh..... ]

--------------------

Oh,,, Ultimate Weapon,,, I got so advanced on all this over the past few years, [Power Nap on demand, multiple you know whats] that it reminded me of when I knitted when I was a kid. Knitting? yes knitting. If all else fails, try knitting for an hour a day! TRUE

=================

I'll write l8tr about something I just invented, called Chasing the Lightning. you'll just LUV it! SURE

[RandomSand]

I'll write l8tr about something I just invented, called Chasing the Lightning. you'll just LUV it! SURE

Great! sounds really interesting. Will you post about it ?

[Jawnie]

We are all only capable of one thought at a time. Scientifically proven. Bumper to bumper, so we call it Mind.

Mind does not exist. Only thoughts do. ( Bodhidharma said to the Chinese emperor ' show me your mind' . He could not) .

So, when you observe your breath, with full attention, Guess what!! You are in meditation.

Practise this and you are transcending thoughts. You are in meditation. Congratulations

Haha...I remember a Buddhist teacher using the same trick on a Christian. The teacher asked the Christian, "Do you have a soul?" To which, the Christian naturally replied, "Yes." Then the teacher asked, "Okay, describe it to me. What does it look like, what does if feel like, what color is it? etc. Of course, the Christian had no answers.

[Brickbat]

Samuel Johnson

" we are but one Stupendous whole,

Whose Body Nature is, and a God the Soul"

Mate, an opinion, like everything. We don't have a soul. We are soul. May there are some Ahhhh! souls too. Like moi.

Think about this. We are the world. A microcosm within the entire Macrocosm. We are not outside the world.

So how can we ( anybody) know what's not outside us? No one knows reality. All speculation.

Have a cup of tea. And laugh!! All a big joke

[rockyysdt]

We are all only capable of one thought at a time. Scientifically proven. Bumper to bumper, so we call it Mind.

Mind does not exist. Only thoughts do. ( Bodhidharma said to the Chinese emperor ' show me your mind' . He could not) .

So, when you observe your breath, with full attention, Guess what!! You are in meditation.

Practise this and you are transcending thoughts. You are in meditation. Congratulations

Haha...I remember a Buddhist teacher using the same trick on a Christian. The teacher asked the Christian, "Do you have a soul?" To which, the Christian naturally replied, "Yes." Then the teacher asked, "Okay, describe it to me. What does it look like, what does if feel like, what color is it? etc. Of course, the Christian had no answers.

I was thinking that it would be unfair to dismiss the Christian.

My daughter asked me why she should practice Buddhism.

I've thought long and hard but haven't been able to mount a convincing argument.

The Buddha talked about the elimination of the three modes of self ( the physical body, the astral body, and the mind).

These are said to be impermanent and illusory.

He did however talk about the "ultimate self", the purified state, or the "ultimate dharmist self".

Said to be synonymous with Nirvana.

Silakhandhavagga Dighanikaya, 9/242

"Potthapada, I preach elimination of the three modes of self. This practice, when followed by anybody, will lead to subsidence of his blemish and to extremely good growth of his purified state. You will be able to reach perfection of wisdom and achieve fullness (of the spiritually elevated human being) with your own intelligence and remain in such a state ... It will be filled with bliss joy, tranquility, mindfulness, complete awareness, and happy existence."

One could equally ask a Buddhist "What does it look like, what does if feel like, what color is it?" of his ultimate self.

Edited January 16, 2014 by rockyysdt

[trd]

Since the thought ‘this body composed of flesh is I’ alone is the one thread on which [all] the various thoughts are strung, if [one] goes within [investigating] ‘Who am I? What is [its] place [the source from which this ‘I’ has risen, and the ground on which it stands]?’ thoughts will cease, and in the cave [of one’s heart] ātma-jñāna [self-knowledge] will shine spontaneously as ‘I [am only] I’. This is silence, the one [empty] space [of consciousness], the abode of bliss.

Verse 2 of Āṉma Viddai

Sri Ramana Maharshi

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Brickbat]

This is what " thought " does. Divide. Separate. Ramana Maharshi was the guru to Nisargadatta who then had all the western disciples who spread the knowledge of non- duality. When we think, we create duality. But thinking is needed to survive. Hence the balancing act.

Buddha never asked anyone to believe him. He actually said we should reason ourselves and " be a light unto thyself". His teachings are the foundations of today's psychology.

Christ said wonderful things. Eg " be in this world, but not of it" .

[Brickbat]

Science has now proved that there is no shape, no color, no form. That all is a ceaselessly flowing, ambiguous quantum soup.

The "self' is the oneness of the uni-verse. Our 'minds' being finite, and in this universe, can never ever understand and know the infinite. Just like the eye cannot see itself or the mind know the mind. We have to traverse that frightening abyss of No-thing to be redeemed.

But this tricky little monkey ( mind) won't let go!!