Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer: Thai election commissioner

[whybother]

Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer

That depends on what the question is.

[RedNIvar]

The solution then is to improve the education system.

Took 2 pages for someone to say it.

Democracy only works if people are educated.

And most would agree that democracy is the least worst type of government

So the real answer is to educate people, not to end democracy.

Same reasoning with the distribution of money. No one works more than 24 hours a day. Even though the pay should also represent the qualification, we're already a few zeros past the acceptable difference.

Of course, in Thailand, improving education means putting an h bomb and rebuilding from scratch. But since that's the only way, it has to be done.

Unfortunately would not work in Thailand. Education leads to equal opportunities. The elites like to have first dibs on business opportunities, and not have to share it with capable educated poor people. That is a big no,no.

[thailiketoo]

Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer

That depends on what the question is.

The question is, "Did vote buying and selling change the outcome of any election in Thailand since 2001?" The answer is, "No."

[whybother]

The solution then is to improve the education system.

Took 2 pages for someone to say it.

Democracy only works if people are educated.

And most would agree that democracy is the least worst type of government

So the real answer is to educate people, not to end democracy.

Same reasoning with the distribution of money. No one works more than 24 hours a day. Even though the pay should also represent the qualification, we're already a few zeros past the acceptable difference.

Of course, in Thailand, improving education means putting an h bomb and rebuilding from scratch. But since that's the only way, it has to be done.

Unfortunately would not work in Thailand. Education leads to equal opportunities. The elites like to have first dibs on business opportunities, and not have to share it with capable educated poor people. That is a big no,no.

That's how Thaksin made most of his money ... a telecom monopoly. He didn't want to share it with anyone.

[RedNIvar]

The solution then is to improve the education system.

Took 2 pages for someone to say it.

Democracy only works if people are educated.

And most would agree that democracy is the least worst type of government

So the real answer is to educate people, not to end democracy.

Same reasoning with the distribution of money. No one works more than 24 hours a day. Even though the pay should also represent the qualification, we're already a few zeros past the acceptable difference.

Of course, in Thailand, improving education means putting an h bomb and rebuilding from scratch. But since that's the only way, it has to be done.

Unfortunately would not work in Thailand. Education leads to equal opportunities. The elites like to have first dibs on business opportunities, and not have to share it with capable educated poor people. That is a big no,no.

That's how Thaksin made most of his money ... a telecom monopoly. He didn't want to share it with anyone.

Correction, he did not want to share the cake with the rich elite's. Which was his biggest mistake, IMHO. For the rural poor, well his contribution can be seen repaid through the election process time and again.

[whybother]

Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer

That depends on what the question is.

The question is, "Did vote buying and selling change the outcome of any election in Thailand since 2001?" The answer is, "No."

If that was the question, then "Taking voting rights away ..." is clearly not the answer. It makes no sense as an answer to that question. I am surprised that anyone even suggested it was the answer. How can you answer that when the answer can only be Yes or No?

[whybother]

That's how Thaksin made most of his money ... a telecom monopoly. He didn't want to share it with anyone.

Correction, he did not want to share the cake with the rich elite's. Which was his biggest mistake, IMHO. For the rural poor, well his contribution can be seen repaid through the election process time and again.

Wasn't it the "rich elites" that gave him the monopoly?

[RedNIvar]

That's how Thaksin made most of his money ... a telecom monopoly. He didn't want to share it with anyone.

Correction, he did not want to share the cake with the rich elite's. Which was his biggest mistake, IMHO. For the rural poor, well his contribution can be seen repaid through the election process time and again.

Wasn't it the "rich elites" that gave him the monopoly?

Well, he bit the hand that fed him. Big mistake. Should have cut them each a slice.

[metisdead]

Off topic and inflammatory posts have been removed.

[Mackie]

Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer

That depends on what the question is.

The question is, "Did vote buying and selling change the outcome of any election in Thailand since 2001?" The answer is, "No."

You've got to do better than that and prove that vote buying did not influence any election in Thailand since 2001. It's only your opinion. So the answer is more complex than simple 'yes' or 'no'. However, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that vote buying actually influence any election in Thailand. The current government deliberately lost $12 billion just to stay popular in rural Thailand. That is a blatant example of vote buying on a massive scale by wasting tax payer money just to promote your personal devious agenda. But the problem is how to explain that to the poor people up North. No one told them they will have to pay for through their noses some time in the future. No one told them that that idiotic move blew a massive hole in Thai economy and already caused instability, inflation and forced Thai currency into free fall. This country needs to introduce accountability, responsibility and transparency as a matter of urgency otherwise there is not going to be a country in the near future.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Mackie

[mariner16]

"Sometimes I think that a parody of democracy is more dangerous than a blatant dictatorship, because that gives people an opportunity to avoid doing anything about it." A S S Kyi

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." JFK

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice do so wisely. The real safeguard of democracy is education." FDR

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections" Lord Acton

Try another quote from Lord Acton:

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern"

[gerry1011]

Taking away the voting rights of the less fortunate people in Thailand is a bit like if suddenly we would say to all the French who voted for the Socialist Party that they are not smart enough to elect their (unpopular) leader... Not sure they would appreciate

I am also not sure how poor an up country rice farmer should be in order to be stripped from his right to have a say... Many farmers own their land, while the middle class worker only owns his Toyota Vios (and the credit attached to it)...

And how "uneducated" should the poor be before to be stripped of their fundamental rights?

Is it the quality of the schools that should be taken into account to decide who is smart enough to vote of not?

If it is the IQ some "educated" people from the bangkok middle class should lose their right too. Quite a lot in fact

Also not sure what should be done with the poor southern farmers.

I guess that many believe that these particular poor must be smart... since they support Suthep (with a bit of free food, transportation and goodies to motivate them a bit, but ok)...

Or are the poor southerners smart enough to vote, and only the poor northerners should be disqualified?

I guess that Suthep is the one who can make the difference between the smart poor and the stupid ones. It's a question of color and location for sure... At least in his eyes

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer

That depends on what the question is.

The question is, "Did vote buying and selling change the outcome of any election in Thailand since 2001?" The answer is, "No."

You've got to do better than that and prove that vote buying did not influence any election in Thailand since 2001. It's only your opinion. So the answer is more complex than simple 'yes' or 'no'. However, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that vote buying actually influence any election in Thailand. The current government deliberately lost $12 billion just to stay popular in rural. That is a blatant example of vote buying on a massive scale. But the problem is how to explain that to the poor people up North. No one told them they will have to pay for through their noses some time in the future. No one told them that that idiotic move blew a massive hole in Thai economy and already caused instability, inflation and forced Thai currency into free fall. This country needs to introduce accountability, responsibility and transparency as a matter of urgency otherwise there is not going to be a country in the near future.

If vote buying could influence an election the Red shirts would not be in power. Maybe you know that or maybe you don't but everyone who is clued in like the sources of the NYT know and that can be written about outside of Thailand.

Two parties, one wants a graduated income tax with exceptions. The other wants a flat tax; everyone pays the same percent taxes. So one party takes money from the rich to give to the poor and the other party takes money from the poor and gives it to the rich. It is hard to see the rich people ever winning an election.

The only way the Republicans ever win in the US is the Democrats are so incompetent.

The only thing that is different about Thailand is the lack of a free press. That would solved all of the problems.

The other odd thing is the world press would get behind any party that demonstrated for a free press.

A free press is the answer but till you have that these problems will go on and on. Would a free press report on vote buying? Sure.

Education has nothing to do with it. Thailand is producing too many college graduates as it is.

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=2435

Edited December 21, 2013 by thailiketoo

[Bluespunk]

"Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer: election commissioner"

The fact anyone needs to say this is madness. I do not like PT, they are corrupt and criminally inept in the way they run the economy, however suthep's fascist lunacy is not the answer.

[scorecard]

He is dead right on that one and we have seen a wonderful example in the last 2 years of the PT Govt

The rest he has got right as well.

However this time round the ordinary people are out there demanding change and are not prepared to leave it to the politicians.

So... Suthep and Abhisit, politicians that during their unelected tenure did nothing to stamp out corruption or pushed for political reform are the only choice?

Suthep and Abhisit are to be trusted (never mind the Palm Oil Scam) because they were once in power, albeit unelected in a Democratic way by the PEOPLE according to the CONSTITUTION.

It gets tiresome and ludicrous the mantra: Thaksin bad. Abhisit, Suthep or any Democrat good.

How many millions of the so called "ordinary people" are on the streets? So the other 63 million Thais do not count. I get it: Bangkok is Thailand to the anti-Thaksinistas pro anything Democrat.

Farangs beware: "I do not trust, respect or like Farang!" Suthep; as he declared his true color to the Media, national and foreign before the elections he miserably lost to Yingluck.

That is a common misconception that Abhisit's government did not do anything for Thailand. Abhisit government did more for the benefit of ALL THAIS than any other government before his. It's not about democrats or PTP, it's about having competent people in the important places. People who know how to do the job which will benefit the country, not some guy in Dubai. All Thailand has now is bunch of apparatchiks waiting to receive their orders via Skype. It's ludicrous.

I don't see any problem with Suthep's statement about farangs. It's their country, it's their culture. You should show respect if you want to be respected. Also you should earn respect, not demand it. Same goes for trust.

You are guilty of Sophistry (look it up), Respect is not the issue. Neither has been questioned or demanded. Your attempt to deviate the focus of the issue is a non sequitur. If you like the Democrats because Mark comes from a rich family (daddy is one of the big wigs at CP Foods and he is an Eaton graduate), just say you think he is more qualified than others. As to what he did to improve Thailand under his tenure: please, enumerate specifically what he did to stamp out corruption, improve the life of Thais upcountry, etc.. Do not be vague or generic. Simply because you "feel" he is good is not a factual reason. Care to comment on the Palm Oil Scam?

Well perhaps you'd like to make very specific comments why vote buying is OK.

And some specific comments in regard to the fact that none of the paymasters governments did anything whatever of any substance to stop vote buying or to massively reduce corruption or put any systems in place to quickly and systematically find corruption and take serious action, nor increase penalties for corruption.

And perhaps you'd like to give some very specific comments on the fact that none of the paymasters governments discusses or introduced overriding policies let alone specific initiatives which would reduce the income gap and would give a large % of Thais the means to have a much better quality of life through their own productivity. Nothing, zero, even to today.

And perhaps you'd care to recognize that for most of it's term the abhisit government was trying to deal with paid gangs trying to burn down Bangkok, etc.

Please give totally specific answers and don't be vague.

Edited December 21, 2013 by scorecard

[DK2223]

I really don't understand why people debate on this matter. If people agree that people with degree and tax payer only can vote the I just ask you all, degree in Thailand is really just a paper or they are really educated?and how many taxpayer really pay their tax amount? Just to ask all the taxpayer, it is a problem for you all that your tax is going to the poor people to help them in their live? People here say that most people from the north or northeast are involve in prostitution and do you all really knows that how many degree holder(around Thailand, not only the north) are involve in prostitution? I am a business owner and I never hire people just because they have a degree or master in their hands (I base on their accountability, responsibility, experience, attitude, characteristic and many more to judge a person). And just for your info I am not even a diploma holder in my own country but I can be in a very high position in my job and I can build my own business. To me no matter they are poor, uneducated, taxpayer or not, they have the right to live and they have the right to be a citizen. Don't ever separate yourself with education, position and wealth with other people, put yourself in their shoe and thinks. Don't be so selfish that you think that you so all educated people are higher then any other people. For me we all are in the same level, just how we choose to live our live.

[Halion]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It is indeed undemocratic to deny people the right to vote owing to the fact that they have a rather limited education which is in fact a major fault of this and previous government by providing banal and inadequate education.

However the concept that the poor and marginalized offer a conduit to vote buying is undeniable.

Why not instigate proportional representation based on regional economic factors then all would get to vote however the areas with the highest productivity would be entitled to more seats in parliament. . At the end of the day national development is a function of improving productivity.

This would also serve to stimulate local MP's to help their regions grow rather that simply buying their vote.

[olfu]

Yeah, quite long discussion.

My long life teach me that voting itself is useless.

Ruling classes don't care how they got their power, they do care about keeping it.

And all of us here on board are only capable to talk.

[thailiketoo]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It is indeed undemocratic to deny people the right to vote owing to the fact that they have a rather limited education which is in fact a major fault of this and previous government by providing banal and inadequate education.

However the concept that the poor and marginalized offer a conduit to vote buying is undeniable.

Why not instigate proportional representation based on regional economic factors then all would get to vote however the areas with the highest productivity would be entitled to more seats in parliament. . At the end of the day national development is a function of improving productivity.

This would also serve to stimulate local MP's to help their regions grow rather that simply buying their vote.

Or maybe a House of Lords. (sarcasm alert)

[Timwin]

Thailand already has experienced de facto "only educated (rich) can vote" system for centuries. The only problem was the "educated" only cared for themselves and ignored the needs of the poor, uneducated majority.

Never trust the elite do your struggles for you or give even an inch of rope to you. They are the enemy of middle class, whether you live in USA, UK, Germany, Sweden, China, Thailand or Vietnam.

Just look at the US Congress, nothing but a spoiled millionaires' club running the country back into the robber baron era of 19th century. The era of extreme income differences. The healthcare system is already ruined, the public education ruined too, police state coming and the justice system crooked (I got affluenza ha!).

Maybe the Bangkok elite should move to USA with their serious case of affluenzas, they would love it there!

[scorecard]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It is indeed undemocratic to deny people the right to vote owing to the fact that they have a rather limited education which is in fact a major fault of this and previous government by providing banal and inadequate education.

However the concept that the poor and marginalized offer a conduit to vote buying is undeniable.

Why not instigate proportional representation based on regional economic factors then all would get to vote however the areas with the highest productivity would be entitled to more seats in parliament. . At the end of the day national development is a function of improving productivity.

This would also serve to stimulate local MP's to help their regions grow rather that simply buying their vote.

Well sure there is an urgent need to examine all possibilities in the reform process.

The notion that the PT government would look at this matter seriously after an election on 2 Feb, is total folly.

In the scenario of election first then discussion of reforms the PT mob will go all out to buy as many votes as possible and silence as many as possible, continue their sham 'public hearings' on the water management problem, continue with the DSI being obviously very selective in who they try to prosecute, etc.

It's a no brainer, reforms (must be focused and must give voting rights to all, and must be finished within a reasonable time) before another election.

[thailiketoo]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It is indeed undemocratic to deny people the right to vote owing to the fact that they have a rather limited education which is in fact a major fault of this and previous government by providing banal and inadequate education.

However the concept that the poor and marginalized offer a conduit to vote buying is undeniable.

Why not instigate proportional representation based on regional economic factors then all would get to vote however the areas with the highest productivity would be entitled to more seats in parliament. . At the end of the day national development is a function of improving productivity.

This would also serve to stimulate local MP's to help their regions grow rather that simply buying their vote.

Well sure there is an urgent need to examine all possibilities in the reform process.

The notion that the PT government would look at this matter seriously after an election on 2 Feb, is total folly.

In the scenario of election first then discussion of reforms the PT mob will go all out to buy as many votes as possible and silence as many as possible, continue their sham 'public hearings' on the water management problem, continue with the DSI being obviously very selective in who they try to prosecute, etc.

It's a no brainer, reforms (must be focused and must give voting rights to all, and must be finished within a reasonable time) before another election.

If the party in power can buy votes then the opposition party can buy votes. Since the opposition has more money why have they lost every election since 2001?

[dunque]

If they allow uneducated slackjaws to vote, they should also give family pets voting rights also. Fairs fair.

Realistically there should be some sort of IQ test as regards voting, just to make sure that a basic understanding of politics has been attained by the prospective voter.

Let me guess - you are from 1960s Mississippi ?

[assayer]

If they allow uneducated slackjaws to vote, they should also give family pets voting rights also. Fairs fair.

Realistically there should be some sort of IQ test as regards voting, just to make sure that a basic understanding of politics has been attained by the prospective voter.

Realistically there should be some sort of IQ test as regards the ability to post on TV!

[ridkun]

There is a Thai's idiom, literally 'Sugarcane that entered elephant's mouth' and it means you cannot take something back once it has been given. It is the same as voting right, once the right has been granted for every people so it is impossible to 'undo' that.

What we can do now is to educate them and get them out of poverty, and maybe also get out of the habit of relying to the politician to help them 'get rich quick'. What is hard is that there is no easy way to say that without getting attacked that you are insulting poor and uneducated people, and sometimes even 'uneducated' word itself is insulting.

[rotary]

It might be an idea to taking voting rights away from the "over educated" world wide

[DocN]

I am really and honestly disgusted by the borderline fascist bull**** that some are spewing here.

Voting rights based on education?

So if you are kept from education by the same people that will not give you voting rights, because you are uneducated...that is okay in your eyes?

What hole did you people crawl out of?

[SaamBaht]

Even having this discussion seems odd. Why is education necessary to know which candidate is good for you? This is a simple ploy to steal power from the oppressed. What an old story. Why don't they educate them, and then use more sophisticated ways of manipulating them like they do in the West?

[SaamBaht]

Like someone posed: Is a Thai education really an education or an impressive piece of paper???

[scorecard]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It is indeed undemocratic to deny people the right to vote owing to the fact that they have a rather limited education which is in fact a major fault of this and previous government by providing banal and inadequate education.

However the concept that the poor and marginalized offer a conduit to vote buying is undeniable.

Why not instigate proportional representation based on regional economic factors then all would get to vote however the areas with the highest productivity would be entitled to more seats in parliament. . At the end of the day national development is a function of improving productivity.

This would also serve to stimulate local MP's to help their regions grow rather that simply buying their vote.

Well sure there is an urgent need to examine all possibilities in the reform process.

The notion that the PT government would look at this matter seriously after an election on 2 Feb, is total folly.

In the scenario of election first then discussion of reforms the PT mob will go all out to buy as many votes as possible and silence as many as possible, continue their sham 'public hearings' on the water management problem, continue with the DSI being obviously very selective in who they try to prosecute, etc.

It's a no brainer, reforms (must be focused and must give voting rights to all, and must be finished within a reasonable time) before another election.

If the party in power can buy votes then the opposition party can buy votes. Since the opposition has more money why have they lost every election since 2001?

'Opposition has more money'. How's that?