Investigations show shot that killed Thai police fired from gate : CAPO

[Emptyset]

I don't see anywhere in the OP where they say when they found the empty cartridge cases.

It would seem to be a new development.

If they are indeed a new find it would seem strange that after all the cleaning up that has been done since the event that the cartridge cases were still there.

If they were found directly after the event then surely there would have been the usual circles placed around them and photos taken and a report filed as evidence..

We see this published in the media after any shooting.

Even if everything in the OP is true unfortunately CAPO has lied several times before, something which tends to destroy their credibility.

It's a good point. They did find a .38 shell which they posted up at the time: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=206533802868286&id=196116867243313

But that was for the first policeman shot that morning, not Narong. So it'd mean that there were at least two weapons in use. I don't know if they really found the shell or not, but they had actually mentioned finding shells before, i.e. it's mentioned several bullets were found here. And here, 'Gen Jarumporn noted that four types of cartridge casings were found at clash sites, including 9mm, 11mm, 38mm and 32mm, adding that experts believe 16 firearms were used in the attack'.

Though if they did find one later on how would they know it was the one that hit Narong anyway?

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[theslime]

possibly 16 firearms used in the attacks, must be piss poor shots or someone,s telling porkies again.

Edited January 4, 2014 by theslime

[MikeOboe57]

They are making it up as they go along. First it was alleged that he was shot from an elevated position. When the photos of "black men" on the roof appeared they claimed they were protestors disguised as policemen. Then when they had to admit that the only group "in an elevated position" were genuine policemen they claim that the victim was shot from a level position while "crouching behind cover". And, after the whole area has been thoroughly "made over" they now find a "matching" spent cartridge case at the proper position to back up their updated findings. Amazing Thailand.

[theslime]

They are making it up as they go along. First it was alleged that he was shot from an elevated position. When the photos of "black men" on the roof appeared they claimed they were protestors disguised as policemen. Then when they had to admit that the only group "in an elevated position" were genuine policemen they claim that the victim was shot from a level position while "crouching behind cover". And, after the whole area has been thoroughly "made over" they now find a "matching" spent cartridge case at the proper position to back up their updated findings. Amazing Thailand.

Amazing is certainly right, what a joke. They are so used to getting away with Lies,but now with cameras everywhere they change the facts to try to weezle out of their lie,s. They are like small children if they think the public believe them now.

[theslime]

This whole thing is a bit much. The mob was breaking the law, would not disperse, correct? Rubber bullets, tear gas etc were tried, but mob didn't leave, but continued to break the laws and attempt to overthrow the legally elected government. It is governments right and duty to stop that. If it takes lead, so be it. If someone breaks into your house and tries to destroy it, you have rights to defend it with force. I have no sympathy for those killed. They brought it on themselves.

No sympathy is systematic of a lot of whats wrong with this world, try it, you may like it, especially if you lost a loved one at Din Daeng,or down south.

[khunken]

They are making it up as they go along. First it was alleged that he was shot from an elevated position. When the photos of "black men" on the roof appeared they claimed they were protestors disguised as policemen. Then when they had to admit that the only group "in an elevated position" were genuine policemen they claim that the victim was shot from a level position while "crouching behind cover". And, after the whole area has been thoroughly "made over" they now find a "matching" spent cartridge case at the proper position to back up their updated findings. Amazing Thailand.

That just about sums it up.

When a passport delivery expert is put in charge of yet another police grouping (DSI mk II) which has been caught out lying, their so-called investigation is worthless.

As someone said before on this thread - only an independent investigation is credible.

[zydeco]

This whole thing is a bit much. The mob was breaking the law, would not disperse, correct? Rubber bullets, tear gas etc were tried, but mob didn't leave, but continued to break the laws and attempt to overthrow the legally elected government. It is governments right and duty to stop that. If it takes lead, so be it. If someone breaks into your house and tries to destroy it, you have rights to defend it with force. I have no sympathy for those killed. They brought it on themselves.

Yours and many other posts constantly compare the current Thai protests to what would supposedly happen in the West if protesters behaved in a similar fashion. Many people make the point that if this happened in the West, and a major government headquarters was surrounded, that the police and armed forces would mow them down. But there is no need for supposition, really. There actually was a large-scale protest against the Vietnam War in Washington DC in 1967, some 100,000, which had a splinter group of some 40,000, and they marched on the Pentagon. There was violence, yes, but nobody was shot--because the government refused to give ammunition to the forces guarding the building. If you want to see examples of where the government did shoot, such as at Kent State, you will find the response was widespread condemnation from virtually every segment of society. It is simply untrue that in America at least, since the end of World War II, that the government is willing to get trigger happy with its own citizens.

[silent]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

No one.

Why would you trust either side? As I say above, you go with the evidence. And Surapong didn't say anything about this case, that I can remember did he? I can't really remember too many egregious lies coming from him in the past few weeks, tbh. No doubt there have been some porkies. But nothing that stands out as much as, say, insisting that 200,000 or so people are actually 6 million and that this has been proven by 'academics'. Chalerm on the other hand has come out with loads of his typical nonsensical drivel, yes, but he isn't CAPO.

The statement CAPO initially made about the case was just plain dumb though. I'm not saying Adun necessarily more honest than the rest, although it certainly appears that way. Even Veera in the Post has praised his honesty. But regardless he's definitely smarter than the other people who've spoken from the Government side. He waited until they'd compiled evidence before making a statement. Took journalists up to the roof of the Labour Ministry building to prove that police couldn't have shot and killed Narong from up there. And admitted that police did in fact break the van windows. It was obviously them and Adun must've realized it did nothing for police credibility to deny the obvious. Top marks to Adun, shame about the rest of them...

This btw is right in the direction that police firing from the Labour Ministry would've had to fire from:

Compare with the map:

The building on the left in the first picture is the white building to the right of the Labour Ministry building police were stationed in on the map. As you can see, it's actually higher than the top of the Labour Ministry building (three storey) and blocks the direction they would've had to fire in.

Anyone who still believes police could've done it from there is... well... too far gone to see reason.

What? Nobody here ever heard of magic bullets? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_bullet_theory

[SheungWan]

I am grateful to the police for doing their best to protect citizens and residents against these mobs. It 's very easy to criticise , but they have a difficult job and are doing it well. I am glad the PM has acknowledged that. Unlike many of the posters here, I have never had a problem with the police. In my limited dealings with them, always polite and courteous and do their best to assist.

You live where, some remote island ???? sometimes citizens have to protect themselves from these police mobs. Nice crawling groveling post.

One wonders whether he is probably also grateful that the police were nowhere to be seen in 2010...........

[tilac2]

Look it's been well established that police have lied through their teeth about every aspect of these shootings

IMO everything in the OP statement is a lie and is fabricated - how - where - what - with - when - position - direction - location - evidence - witness statements ....................................all of it lies

There is no point in discussing this further as nothing the police or authorities say can be believed and not just about this case but in general - they are prolific liars

I'm really shocked and amazed when I read this kind of post; I'd be especially shocked if you are a foreigner living in Thailand because you are accusing the Thai police and Thai authorities of systematic lying, and that seems pretty self-defeating to me. Just who do you think you are, coming to a foreign country and insulting the authorities in this way? What would we in western countries think if some foreigners came and lived in our countries and then accused our police and governments of being incompetent liars?

I'd make a similar point to those who are insulting the head of CAPO with schoolboy comments about how he looks. For a start, what does it matter how he looks? Secondly, if he saw these comments, he would have every justification for being insulted. Then maybe he would feel less sympathetic to foreigners in general living in Thailand. In other words you are compromising us all by your rude comments.

I'd remind you that these are the legitimate authorities in Thailand, and they are trying to prepare for a legitimate election on Feb 2nd.

I would hope that TV moderators will try to ban these kind of asinine comments in future.

[Prbkk]

I agree and would add the overt racism to that comment and the grossly offensive comments about the PM

[Basil B]

Meanwhile, national police chief Pol Gen Adul Saengsingkaew defended the actions of police on the the day, while also acknowledging that plainclothes police were ordered up to the roof of a three-floor Labour Ministry building near the stadium.

Adul said officers were positioned there to throw and fire different types of tear gas at protesters, in order to prevent them from obstructing candidates who wanted to register for the election.

​Why would any police commander authorize any police to be in pain clothes in a situation like this other than to gain intelligence? having un-uniformed police lobbing teargas into a crowed was always going to cause controversy.

[fasteddie]

Look it's been well established that police have lied through their teeth about every aspect of these shootings

IMO everything in the OP statement is a lie and is fabricated - how - where - what - with - when - position - direction - location - evidence - witness statements ....................................all of it lies

There is no point in discussing this further as nothing the police or authorities say can be believed and not just about this case but in general - they are prolific liars

"Look it's been well established that police have lied through their teeth about every aspect of these shootings"

Quite the opposite actually!

"they are prolific liars"

Well you should know!

[Basil B]

How close is gate #3 to the building which the police were shooting from? is it possible it was ejected from an automatic weapon and fell there?

[ding]

Do not forget that MANY other peoples where injured by real bullet (but no other died yet)!

Look at this VDO and those pictures!

On the 3rd picture you can see clearly rifles!!!

Click on the pictures to zoom!

http://youtu.be/WvcO0qkOiI8

The picture shows clearly rifles:

But Abdul says: but insisted that police were only armed with batons, shields, tear gas and rubber bullets.

So it clearly another lie.

And if someone still have doubts:

as Wasu's body was not sent to the Police Hospital for an autopsy.

No autopsy after a murder is the same as no investigation at best.

Casings are easy to plant or relocate.

They have more work to do to offset the suspicions that arise from the question, "Who has the most to gain from the shooting of the police officer, and who has the most to lose?"

My thoughts are with the people of Thailand and the King.

Edited January 4, 2014 by ding

[tilac2]

I agree and would add the overt racism to that comment and the grossly offensive comments about the PM

Too right.

It's amazing how many on this forum fail to understand that they are in a completely different culture to their homeland. The racist, demeaning comments you see here about Thais are unbelieveable!

The posters also fail to understand that many of the news reports we see in English are translations of Thai originals, yet these ThaiVisa posters react to the English wording as if it is definitive.

Completely agree about the PM. She is due respect for her official position, even though we may disagree fundamentally with her policies. Those who call her names and try to defame her, e.g. by their sexual innuendo, are demeaning themselves and the entire foreign community here in Thailand. I guess they don't care that their cheap comments help those Thais who perhaps want to paint farangs here as a bunch of cheap sex tourists. That way they won't have to listen to us or respect our opinions.

[Maha Sarakham Marty]

Ah ah... So it is really a protester that shot that poor policeman !!!

Thugs!

Another kangaroo court?

Indeed, all it takes for confirmation to the sycophants is for Thaksin's cousin to assign blame.

[PlastikbinLina]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

I'm not contradicting what you have said HiSoLowSoNoSo but I'm curious to know what is it that Thaksin does or Yingluk's party to interfere with your stay here in Thailand as a foreigner? You seem very passionate about this subject. I've been here for many years but I have never felt threatened from any government that has been in power. Indeed I think things generally have improved all round.

[smedly]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

I'm not contradicting what you have said HiSoLowSoNoSo but I'm curious to know what is it that Thaksin does or Yingluk's party to interfere with your stay here in Thailand as a foreigner? You seem very passionate about this subject. I've been here for many years but I have never felt threatened from any government that has been in power. Indeed I think things generally have improved all round.

so you don't think that the government of Thailand can have an effect on your lifestyle here - I'll give you a clue - Inflation - Expenses - cost of living - will all increase due to poor governance and miss-management,

Other things to consider - crime - safety - law enforcement - scams - corruption

I want to remain here for many years to come so it affects me personally

and please don't reply telling me to go home or I don't have to live here, I chose to live here while it suits me but if things keep going the direction they are going I may want to leave

[theslime]

I agree and would add the overt racism to that comment and the grossly offensive comments about the PM

Too right.

It's amazing how many on this forum fail to understand that they are in a completely different culture to their homeland. The racist, demeaning comments you see here about Thais are unbelieveable!

The posters also fail to understand that many of the news reports we see in English are translations of Thai originals, yet these ThaiVisa posters react to the English wording as if it is definitive.

Completely agree about the PM. She is due respect for her official position, even though we may disagree fundamentally with her policies. Those who call her names and try to defame her, e.g. by their sexual innuendo, are demeaning themselves and the entire foreign community here in Thailand. I guess they don't care that their cheap comments help those Thais who perhaps want to paint farangs here as a bunch of cheap sex tourists. That way they won't have to listen to us or respect our opinions.

Your view through rose tinted glasses, implies the Global Mods aren,t doing their job, I suggest you take it up with them if you dare. The racist demeaning comments are very sparse. the bagging of the PM is part of her job, can,t stand the heat get out of the Kitchen.On this entire OP i,ve yet to see anything about sexual innuendo. how it it demeaning for the Entire foreign community if its not in the posts? One bad apple does not mean the Entire Foreign community are rotten unless your a biff of course.

Edited January 5, 2014 by theslime

[smedly]

I agree and would add the overt racism to that comment and the grossly offensive comments about the PM

Too right.

It's amazing how many on this forum fail to understand that they are in a completely different culture to their homeland. The racist, demeaning comments you see here about Thais are unbelieveable!

The posters also fail to understand that many of the news reports we see in English are translations of Thai originals, yet these ThaiVisa posters react to the English wording as if it is definitive.

Completely agree about the PM. She is due respect for her official position, even though we may disagree fundamentally with her policies. Those who call her names and try to defame her, e.g. by their sexual innuendo, are demeaning themselves and the entire foreign community here in Thailand. I guess they don't care that their cheap comments help those Thais who perhaps want to paint farangs here as a bunch of cheap sex tourists. That way they won't have to listen to us or respect our opinions.

nothing to do with culture

a lie is a lie - corruption is corruption - law is law - crime is crime

I have an opinion and I voice it - if you disagree then disagree, I am certainly not racist - far from it, I base my opinion on my experience here in Thailand and the actions of this government as I see them - that is my opinion

Aren't we all lucky you are not a Moderator on TV - there'd be nothing to talk about

[JoeLing]

After investigating the investigators, they found out that it was actually
NOT a police officer who got shot by a gun from a high ground in Bangkok
but a farang committing suicide jumping from high ground in Pattaya

[JoeLing]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

Dearest Mr HiSoLowSoNoSo,

you can't be living long enough in the Land of Amazingness,

otherwise you would know,

Thai people NEVER lie, they where just joking.

Thai people NEVER steal, they where just borrowing.

[tingtongteesood]

It says the protestors set off fire crackers, seems stupid to me since that could make the police open fire thinking it was the protestors shooting at them. I want to know who paid the kid to do it........

[tingtongteesood]

Ah ah... So it is really a protester that shot that poor policeman !!!

Thugs!

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Where the hell does it say that ? All it says is the bullet came from the direction of the gate.....On the live news I saw a lot of police shot guns shooting through the bars in the gate. Which side of the gate was it from ? Doesn't tell us who did what. As usual the brainwashed red supporter jumps to conclusions with no proof at all....

[wprime]

The CAPO should wait until all evidence is out before deciding on their story, it will give them greater credibility.

[Lakegeneve]

Look it's been well established that police have lied through their teeth about every aspect of these shootings

IMO everything in the OP statement is a lie and is fabricated - how - where - what - with - when - position - direction - location - evidence - witness statements ....................................all of it lies

There is no point in discussing this further as nothing the police or authorities say can be believed and not just about this case but in general - they are prolific liars

I'm really shocked and amazed when I read this kind of post; I'd be especially shocked if you are a foreigner living in Thailand because you are accusing the Thai police and Thai authorities of systematic lying, and that seems pretty self-defeating to me. Just who do you think you are, coming to a foreign country and insulting the authorities in this way? What would we in western countries think if some foreigners came and lived in our countries and then accused our police and governments of being incompetent liars?

I'd make a similar point to those who are insulting the head of CAPO with schoolboy comments about how he looks. For a start, what does it matter how he looks? Secondly, if he saw these comments, he would have every justification for being insulted. Then maybe he would feel less sympathetic to foreigners in general living in Thailand. In other words you are compromising us all by your rude comments.

I'd remind you that these are the legitimate authorities in Thailand, and they are trying to prepare for a legitimate election on Feb 2nd.

I would hope that TV moderators will try to ban these kind of asinine comments in future.

No need to ban, it is a legitimate view that would be expressed by most thais. Leaving out the politics of what is going on, almost everyone in Thailand would agree with the general proposition that Thai police rarely tell the truth about most investigations.

Given the systemic corruption in law enforcement, the weak rule of law and politicized senior police in this country is that any surprise? With respect, your response is naive and lacking an acknowledgement of how the police generally work in this country. Yes, you are correct to berate a poster for irrelevant 'schoolboy' type comments as you say. Such is just plain silly.

The underlying problem is that policing here is not objectively independent, rarely professional, investigations are always lacking and usually compromised by vested interests or important people. Hence, the reason why most thais complain about the police and don't trust anything they state. It is all a game of say one thing which rarely has little bearing on the reality of a situation. Did you not see the most recent infamous example related to the child serial killer where police in 3 different provinces lied to parents and ignored their pleas to conduct investigations into missing children, all of whom were subsequently murdered!

The lack of professional, independent law enforcement makes the already murky political struggle even harder to provide clarity. That doesn't mean that all police are bad or that no proper investigations are conducted but in more instances than not those good aspects of the police are often undermined by the senior and institutional norms. As we have seen even DSI has become a political tool in the last 18 months.

And frankly, given that every western police police has experienced significant incidences of corruption and lying about significant cases in the past - and some still do -, I for one would feel absolutely supportive of a foreign person making an obvious observation about such in my country if it was occurring. The ability to critique professionalism and integrity should not be about where you some from.

[gerry1011]

Ah ah... So it is really a protester that shot that poor policeman !!!

Thugs!

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Where the hell does it say that ? All it says is the bullet came from the direction of the gate.....On the live news I saw a lot of police shot guns shooting through the bars in the gate. Which side of the gate was it from ? Doesn't tell us who did what. As usual the brainwashed red supporter jumps to conclusions with no proof at all....

Protesters try to force the gate to enter.

Police are inside to protect the gate.

Protester shoots from the gate.

Police officer gets killed.

Easy

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app